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Doom's nationalism is just an extension of his ego, though, in a very literal sense, because he treats Latveria as an extension of himself as a result of his conquest of it There's probably an alternate timeline out there where Ultimate Doom becomes the best worst capitalist of all time because he founded an international conglomerate instead of taking over a country. Although at that point, he might bear a little too much resemblance to Lex Luthor.
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Dec 7, 2023 16:22
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OnimaruXLR posted:Doom's nationalism is just an extension of his ego, though, in a very literal sense, because he treats Latveria as an extension of himself as a result of his conquest of it
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Dec 7, 2023 16:49
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I did get a kick out of Erik and Moira's reactions to Doom.
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Dec 7, 2023 17:49
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Which book is this?
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Dec 7, 2023 20:11
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Sephyr posted:Which book is this? X-Men.
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Dec 7, 2023 20:18
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OnimaruXLR posted:Doom's nationalism is just an extension of his ego, though, in a very literal sense, because he treats Latveria as an extension of himself as a result of his conquest of it Wasn’t that kind of the premise of that What If where he pulled a Superior Spider-Man before it was cool and swapped bodies with Tony in college?
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Dec 8, 2023 01:22
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Yvonmukluk posted:Wasn’t that kind of the premise of that What If where he pulled a Superior Spider-Man before it was cool and swapped bodies with Tony in college? Doom transferred his mind into a by-stander during the Byrne run when his armor was fused fighting Terrax. He then yelled at an old lady. It ruled. He lived in that body for a shockingly long time if I remember.
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Dec 8, 2023 03:26
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Doom is holding off on any sort of ethnic prejudice until he can get a copy of Reed Richards' 23andMe results and figure out who exactly he's supposed to hate.
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Dec 9, 2023 00:18
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Well, since Reed thought his father was wrong in opposing the McCarthy hearings and witch hunt, I'm for one am willing to give Doom the benefit of the doubt. Then again, that was during Civil War, and no one was being written decently back then.
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Dec 9, 2023 01:26
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Sephyr posted:Well, since Reed thought his father was wrong in opposing the McCarthy hearings and witch hunt, I'm for one am willing to give Doom the benefit of the doubt.  What the gently caress
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Dec 9, 2023 18:00
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danbanana posted:Doom transferred his mind into a by-stander during the Byrne run when his armor was fused fighting Terrax. He then yelled at an old lady. It ruled. He lived in that body for a shockingly long time if I remember. He tried that in a recent Guardians of the Galaxy comic and ended up stuck in the body of Rocket Raccoon, and the Guardians were able to coerce him into helping them save the galaxy because Doom refused to be stuck in a body that others would find "cute"
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Dec 9, 2023 20:16
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Sephyr posted:Well, since Reed thought his father was wrong in opposing the McCarthy hearings and witch hunt, I'm for one am willing to give Doom the benefit of the doubt.
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Dec 9, 2023 22:07
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Laughing Zealot posted:
It's such a reader trip, too. The conflict between heroes is escalating and the 'right' side (according to the editors) os building extra-dimensional gulags to shove their friends in, and Reed is telling someone that it really sucks this is happening, and it reminds him of his dad during the McCarthy paranoia and how he stood against the tide. You think it -might- be a sign he's wavering in his commitment, but he instantly goes basically "Yeah, my father was wrong and a chump, you gotta -kiss- the jackboot and it will never step on you."
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Dec 9, 2023 23:26
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I coulda sworn this happened in World War Hulk, but maybe not? There was a scene where Wolverine was going to fight the Hulk, and the Hulk gives him a little speech like "You know, I generally end up on top when we've fought before, but it's a huge pain in the rear end and I don't have the time to deal with your bullshit right now," and then he picks Wolverine up and throws him hundreds of miles away and says "I bet it's gonna take you a long time to get back." I thought that was the big scene when Hulk attacks the X-Mansion, but I'm trying to google it now and I guess the Hulk just beats him in the face til he gets super concussed? Am I imagining things or did that happen somewhere else?
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Dec 10, 2023 01:04
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Phenotype posted:I coulda sworn this happened in World War Hulk, but maybe not? There was a scene where Wolverine was going to fight the Hulk, and the Hulk gives him a little speech like "You know, I generally end up on top when we've fought before, but it's a huge pain in the rear end and I don't have the time to deal with your bullshit right now," and then he picks Wolverine up and throws him hundreds of miles away and says "I bet it's gonna take you a long time to get back." He did what you're talking about to the Juggernaut who made a deal with Cytorrak to get back up to full power.
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Dec 10, 2023 06:18
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Dawgstar posted:He did what you're talking about to the Juggernaut who made a deal with Cytorrak to get back up to full power. Just so I'm understanding this... Hulk tossed Juggernaut a few hundred miles rather than deal with him?
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Dec 10, 2023 06:22
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In World War Hulk - X-Men, Hulk tears off Rockslide's legs and asks Santo if he can control them in Connecticut. He also punts Monet to New Jersey.
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Dec 10, 2023 06:36
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GOD IS BED posted:In World War Hulk - X-Men, Hulk tears off Rockslide's legs and asks Santo if he can control them in Connecticut. He also punts Monet to New Jersey. Which is dumb because that's not how Rockslide's powers work. Also Gage inexplicably writes him as yelling out italian exclamations for some reason?
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Dec 10, 2023 06:47
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Synesthesian Fetish posted:Just so I'm understanding this... Hulk tossed Juggernaut a few hundred miles rather than deal with him? That IS dealing with a fully powered up Cain. Juggernaut is probably the only person on earth who could go toe to toe with World War Hulk besides the Sentry and Hulk didn't want to waste time on him because he was super amped up to kill Charles.
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Dec 10, 2023 17:39
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Heh. He sure was. you woulda thought the two of them could have had a bonding moment over it
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Dec 11, 2023 01:30
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Sephyr posted:the 'right' side (according to the editors) My conspiracy theory on Civil War was that during development, Millar presented the concept and editorial was like "WTF why" but because they were trying to keep Millar happy and stay, they greenlit it. And all of the "actually both sides make good points!" statements by editorial during the publishing were damage control. This is also me just heaping as much blame as I can on Millar for just about anything.
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Dec 11, 2023 15:09
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danbanana posted:
This is objectively always the best course of action.
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Dec 11, 2023 15:37
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I always at the time just assumed that New Avengers had been so successful, and it was pre Iron Man movie, so they were just jobbing the old guard out to them ala pro wrestling with the plan to shelve titles that at the time I remember people were complaining were pretty stagnant for a while in Iron Man and FF. But I know nothing of numbers or anything like that this is just what I decided was true with no context.
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Dec 11, 2023 22:23
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Phenotype posted:Heh. He sure was. Was Charles even in on that particular decision of the Illuminati?
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Dec 11, 2023 23:47
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danbanana posted:My conspiracy theory on Civil War was that during development, Millar presented the concept and editorial was like "WTF why" but because they were trying to keep Millar happy and stay, they greenlit it. And all of the "actually both sides make good points!" statements by editorial during the publishing were damage control. Thing is, in concept, the pro-registration side was right. Licensing, paying, insuring, and training people who want to fight crime, some of whom are walking WMDs is a good idea. But then it immediately jumped off the cliff with Capekiller squads, negative zone prisons, and giving Bullseye a badge. Things like Avengers Academy and the 50 State Initiative were good ideas.
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Dec 12, 2023 13:26
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Soonmot posted:Thing is, in concept, the pro-registration side was right. Licensing, paying, insuring, and training people who want to fight crime, some of whom are walking WMDs is a good idea. But then it immediately jumped off the cliff with Capekiller squads, negative zone prisons, and giving Bullseye a badge. Things like Avengers Academy and the 50 State Initiative were good ideas. Yeah this was my take too. And it didn't help that POWERS had a much better, and much more nuanced approach - capes had to be registered, but their identities were only known on a Federal level, and in general they were free to fight crime or whatever.
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Dec 12, 2023 13:49
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Such a popular event, they should have brought it back for another round!
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Dec 12, 2023 14:02
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danbanana posted:My conspiracy theory on Civil War was that during development, Millar presented the concept and editorial was like "WTF why" but because they were trying to keep Millar happy and stay, they greenlit it. And all of the "actually both sides make good points!" statements by editorial during the publishing were damage control. The pitch that was at the top of the pile after a couple of days was JMS and Jeph Loeb pitching what became World War Hulk, but in a form that was way more focused on Hulk marshalling every alien race in the OHOTMU, so that I think all of the tie-ins would be heroes fighting different alien species. Mark Millar and Brian Michael Bendis thought this was a bad idea and started putting together a counter-pitch for what became Civil War, and obviously it 'won'. All of this (except naming names about who was pitching the Hulk event Civil War was pitched to replace) is laid out in the Civil War Script Book and various interviews/forewords published over the years. Millar's original pitch references "Red Hulk" and brought the real Thor back in Civil War, and also had the third act of the series dovetail into "Planet Hulk/The Hulk War" but tweaked the "alien army" into an army of "five-foot versions of the Hulk called Hulk Babies who are just as powerful and dangerous, but the spawn of the Hulk after he's hosed a hundred thousand alien chicks" and all of the heroes reunite to fight off the Hulk Babies but then an evil senator in cahoots with Doctor Doom tries to depower all the heroes and this somehow proves registration is right. So again, not trying to suggest Millar had good ideas in theory or execution, but there was definitely pushback from editorial. The place where this becomes my own conspiracy theory is that various parties (most significantly JMS, but also notably Paul Jenkins) didn't like Millar's pitch, and sought to undermine it through their books. Millar's own Civil War book is deeply flawed, but the event as a whole becomes downright incoherent when you factor in the tie-ins featuring Reed's McCarthyism apologia (JMS), sideplots where Tony Stark was bribing congressmen, staging false flag operations, hiring off-the-books assassins, threatening to imprison/kill Aunt May (all JMS and/or Jenkins), etc. Depending on the tie-in, unregistered heroes were either treated humanely and encouraged to register or left starving and bleeding out on a dirt floor in a dimension that was driving them mad/empirically going to make them commit suicide. Even when the writers who were 'playing along' with the concept tried to show that the Negative Zone prison had Danger Room/Virtual Reality features to make the detainees more comfortable, JMS wrote in a bit about how the false reality was a living hell and the people in it were begging for death. JMS had a quote where he talked about based on the pitch, he felt that Reed, Tony, and all of the pro-registration characters were "the bad guys" and therefore he felt that he needed to write them as "the bad guys" even though he disagreed with that characterization, and that's very much what he did.
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Dec 12, 2023 14:37
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Edge & Christian posted:army of "five-foot versions of the Hulk called Hulk Babies who are just as powerful and dangerous, but the spawn of the Hulk after he's hosed a hundred thousand alien chicks" i think my brain broke reading this
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Dec 12, 2023 14:42
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hope and vaseline posted:i think my brain broke reading this Pretend I just posted the final page of Mark Millar's magnum opus "Wanted".
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Dec 12, 2023 14:51
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Oh goodie, I just realized World War Hulk was nearly 17 years ago. 
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Dec 12, 2023 15:02
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Soonmot posted:Thing is, in concept, the pro-registration side was right. Licensing, paying, insuring, and training people who want to fight crime, some of whom are walking WMDs is a good idea. But then it immediately jumped off the cliff with Capekiller squads, negative zone prisons, and giving Bullseye a badge. Things like Avengers Academy and the 50 State Initiative were good ideas. Given the problems with non-powered cops I'm not sure super powered cops is a good idea. hope and vaseline posted:i think my brain broke reading this This sort of happens in Invincible, because of course it does.
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Dec 12, 2023 15:49
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One funny thing about Loeb pitching WWH was he apparently lost interest in it when it wasn't going to be the Big Company Crossover (even though it was still really big) so Greg Pak got to write it instead and I can't imagine Loeb doing a better job.
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Dec 12, 2023 17:27
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Chinston Wurchill posted:Given the problems with non-powered cops I'm not sure super powered cops is a good idea. And registering who's a non-powered cop has definitely increased their accountability!
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Dec 13, 2023 16:55
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It ends up being a choice between super-powered KGB/CIA/Mossad and super-powered KKK/Proud Boys/Weather Underground. In a more meta sense, I believe that the narrative of heroes being individuals, families and even factions that are independent will usually be more interesting than "Everyone is some level of fed".
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Dec 13, 2023 17:07
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Plus the precedent with mutant registration.
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Dec 13, 2023 17:07
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I have been really enjoying Dark X-Men it was the wrong kind of X-men . 
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Dec 14, 2023 00:48
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Lots of storylines wrapping up today between Red and Dark X-Men. So like, is Azazel dead dead? What happened to Angel? Same status?
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Dec 14, 2023 01:45
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I haven't read X-men Red yet but Angel is kind of the go to kill one, and as far as I know he has not been back since the first issue of Dark X-men,
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Dec 14, 2023 02:27
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angel was demonically corrupted in issue 2, then immediately died in a very thorough and dramatic way. he'll be back eventually, of course.
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Dec 14, 2023 02:31
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