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Word is integrating AI into its spell check and its first suggestion was to completely rewrite the preamble in a way that completely reversed the parties. So no thanks to that.
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Dec 5, 2023 22:09
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Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:drat I just watched a CLE that told me I have to either let AI write my first drafts or tell my client that doing so would save an enormous amount of time so the client can direct me to use it or not. Failure to do so could be an ethics violation! Was it hosted by Josh Browder?
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Dec 5, 2023 23:09
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It was Hal... something.
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Dec 6, 2023 05:36
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I know there's some case law regarding electronic discovery about what kind of confidence thresholds are acceptable for automated/AI assisted review for extremely large discoveries and to let the client know how much money they may be able to save by using computers instead of review attorneys (much less partners doing document review) but it's been several years since I've looked at the cases.
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Dec 6, 2023 21:28
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Hello again law megathread. Finally feel like I am at a firm I enjoy working at/for, probably the most I have enjoyed the work since being a law clerk. During my first year in private practice, partner of the firm I worked for (took anything that walked in the door) called opposing counsel with the client in the room, clearly having no idea what he was talking about. Partner did a whole grandstanding show for the client that I thought was embarrassing, borderline unethical, and got lit up by opposing counsel on the call. Yesterday, got to be on the other end of a call like that. Recently retained opposing counsel called me, told me his client was in the room, and proceeded to spew a bunch of nonsense to me for 20 minutes about the case and need to settle. A few things he told me about the two of us during the call: - We've been doing this work for 20 years (I've been licensed for 7) - We have gray hairs from this (not sure what this means) - You know your client doesn't want to go to trial (I've actually settled the case twice and he hadn't read the settlement) -We know the blood sweat and tears that go in to this work (I sit at a desk drinking coffee and eating and wear a suit to court) Not sure the point of this post, but for the life of me I cannot figure out who this sort of behavior works for.
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Dec 8, 2023 12:36
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It's to put on a show for vulnerable clients. I see bad criminal defense attorneys do similar things all the time. Some clients will see their lawyer do something like that and think "wow this guy really believes in me" and thus overlook the fact that they are incompetent. Remember ,the goal for these people is to separate the client from their money, everything else is unimportant.
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Dec 8, 2023 14:22
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SlothBear posted:It's to put on a show for vulnerable clients Or dickhead clients
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Dec 8, 2023 19:24
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SlothBear posted:It's to put on a show for vulnerable clients. I see bad criminal defense attorneys do similar things all the time. Some clients will see their lawyer do something like that and think "wow this guy really believes in me" and thus overlook the fact that they are incompetent. Remember ,the goal for these people is to separate the client from their money, everything else is unimportant. I had an idiot opposing counsel no one likes do this in a public hearing before a cattle call arraignment. His argument was complete nonsense and the outcome was known by everyone except him and his client. After he left a half dozen indigent clients asked if he was available as a contact attorney. This poo poo works.
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Dec 8, 2023 23:21
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The problem is your reputation among other lawyers also matters. I was happy to grandstand where appropriate. Didn't hurt anything to make the client happy and to show the prosecutors and judges I wasn't a pushover. But I made drat sure to only do it when I knew everyone watching would know I was right.
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Dec 9, 2023 00:13
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Man litigation is another world.
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Dec 9, 2023 05:10
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Shageletic posted:Man litigation is another world. What makes it so different from woman litigation?
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Dec 9, 2023 15:33
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Jenkl posted:What makes it so different from woman litigation? Lol
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Dec 10, 2023 23:14
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Jenkl posted:What makes it so different from woman litigation? How likely you are to make partner
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Dec 10, 2023 23:40
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Jenkl posted:What makes it so different from woman litigation? Lol
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Dec 11, 2023 17:53
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I’ve been in approximately 1 million trials by now and grandstanding is a combo of impressing clients and just being that kind of person naturally
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Dec 11, 2023 17:54
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https://twitter.com/greg651/status/1734698782103654789
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Dec 12, 2023 23:50
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Beautiful. 
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Dec 13, 2023 00:17
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If you didn't notice that's Michael Cohen's attorney receiving the show cause order.
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Dec 13, 2023 00:17
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Mr. Nice! posted:If you didn't notice that's Michael Cohen's attorney receiving the show cause order. and the court wants to know if Cohen was involved at all, lawl
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Dec 13, 2023 00:42
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Hey, I am thinking about going to law school because I love fraud investigations and feel strongly about fighting consumer and government fraud in the US. Alternatively I'll continue to start and run businesses that will be aided by or may require a JD. Question: Are there any credible, fully remote, ABA JD-awarding law schools? I'm likely going to start another business, maybe a startup, (not in the legal space) and if I were to go I'd be doing that simultaneously. I'm looking for something I can do part time, preferably fully remote. I'd like to go to a ranked law school, but doesnt need to be top 25. Still the online ones I'm finding are all sub-100 on US News. That might be okay, I never want to work in big law, but figure I can probably get in to a decently ranked school and have time to study for the LSAT now. More Context About Me: - Mechanical Engineer Undergrad (graduated >10 years ago) - Masters in Systems Engineering - Big names on resume (FAANG, Big Defense, YC Startup) - Started a legal tech startup, ran it for 5 years. It supports a sister law firm in the employment and complex business litigation space. I sold my stake in it to my cofounder who continues to operate it. - I've done several fraud investigations with some leading to still-sealed qui tams and several consumer class actions. - I love the nuance and rapidly changing (or constantly circuit split) legal landscape for FCA/consumer class action/RICO. I like the challenge of writing something as clear and short as possible, but still hitting the high pleading standards.
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Dec 14, 2023 17:10
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Just do your business and hire a lawyer when needed
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Dec 14, 2023 17:20
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euphronius posted:Just do your business and hire a lawyer when needed This is the right advice. Nothing mentioned will be helped by a JD. Use the money you would have paid for the degree and use that money on a retainer for an attorney who "shares your values" or whatever other basis you want. Also, there are no "top-tier" law schools that have fully online programs. You have not listed good reasons to go to law school. Do not go to law school. If you are in a position in your life that you have throw-away money and just think a JD program would be interesting, then go ahead I guess. But that's the only honest reason to go based on what you wrote.
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Dec 14, 2023 17:23
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CarForumPoster posted:Question: Are there any credible, fully remote, ABA JD-awarding law schools? Look for the + indicating fully remote on the list below and make up your own mind what credible means, but remember… https://youtu.be/Xs-UEqJ85KE?si=oSkU-bD_Yq_lY0Qo https://www.americanbar.org/groups/legal_education/resources/distance_education/approved-distance-ed-jd-programs/ ulmont fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Dec 14, 2023 |
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Dec 14, 2023 17:23
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You’re getting the usual naysayers in here telling you don’t go, that’s to be expected. But I think you have the drive and abilities to do great in law school. Just need to find the one that works best for you.
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Dec 14, 2023 17:27
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Law school, and a law degree is what you make of it. Don’t listen to the nattering nabobs of negativism.
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Dec 14, 2023 17:53
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Do you Love to Argue??
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Dec 14, 2023 17:54
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As an over-educated degree chaser who has done a bunch of career pivots and had most of them fail, I would generally advise caution. That said, getting a JD literally saved my life, so if you are in a position where it will save yours, go for it.
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Dec 14, 2023 17:59
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No one who works in the consumer fraud legal field wants to end consumer fraud, they just want to profit from it.
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Dec 14, 2023 17:59
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EwokEntourage posted:No one who works in the consumer fraud legal field wants to end consumer fraud, they just want to profit from it. Yea certainly a lot of the health scare claims for product class actions seem to function to trump up damages and I'd wager the TCPA lads don't really want all robocalls to end. Still, I think its possible for a relatively small legal team to ~mostly~ eliminate very specific types of certain frauds, profit from it, then move on to another narrow vertical. e.g. pick something the FTC enforces and go for an offshoot of it. Toona the Cat posted:Law school, and a law degree is what you make of it. Don’t listen to the nattering nabobs of negativism. Phil Moscowitz posted:You’re getting the usual naysayers in here telling you don’t go, that’s to be expected. [...] Just need to find the one that works best for you. Thanks, trying to find that with this post I think its the nature of really getting into a challenging thing or trying to solve a hard problem. Lawyers often say dont go to law school, physicians (like my wife) say dont go to med school. I would tell someone to never start a service based startup and be very cautious with a legal tech startup. Rogue AI Goddess posted:As an over-educated degree chaser who has done a bunch of career pivots and had most of them fail, I would generally advise caution. That sounds really tough and I'm glad it worked out. I'm in kinda the opposite position though, I dont really do great at school, its just necessary or helpful to achieve the goals I had at the time I decided to go. Career wise, all the things that seemed like setbacks/bad decisions at some point ended up making my life, resume, and income better. ulmont posted:Look for the + indicating fully remote on the list below and make up your own mind what credible means, but remember… https://youtu.be/Xs-UEqJ85KE?si=oSkU-bD_Yq_lY0Qo TY. I saw that list in googling but theyre mostly very low tier schools. Doesnt need to be top tier but was hoping for something a little better. Might look into the part time options and see if there's one I can fly to on weekends or something. Love that music video.
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Dec 14, 2023 18:50
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You want to fly to law school on the weekends ?
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Dec 14, 2023 18:53
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euphronius posted:You want to fly to law school on the weekends ? Its pretty common for EMBA programs. If some the part time/hybrid schools that are massively better ranked offer that, I'd consider it. euphronius posted:Just do your business and hire a lawyer when needed Some of the businesses I may start may require me to be an attorney. For example, a small consumer class action firm that is skilled at bar-compliant plaintiff outreach and partners with larger firms where appropriate. (Yes, I know about the Arizona ABS and other non-lawyer fee sharing exceptions) CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Dec 14, 2023 |
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Dec 14, 2023 18:56
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Law school is a real school with a curriculum. It’s not an MBA
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Dec 14, 2023 18:57
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euphronius posted:Law school is a real school with a curriculum. It’s not an MBA Who hurt you? Was it law school? Also, Loyola in Chicago appears to offer weekend classes, 1/3 of credits fully online, potentially more could be remote depending on the experiential learning reqs: https://www.luc.edu/law/academics/degreeprograms/jurisdoctor/weekendjd/ - Seems like its sub $200K all in as well. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Dec 14, 2023 |
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Dec 14, 2023 19:10
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Why do people who have actual careers decide to go to law school? Do they just want to fight more? I know a psychiatrist locally who used to always testify in child abuse cases. She apparently decided the prosecutors weren't prosecuting hard enough and whole rear end went to law school herself and got a job as a prosecutor and now she's finding out why all the prosecutors weren't prosecuting as hard as she wanted them to: child cases are very difficult to prosecute and taking everything to trial is a great way to lose a lot of trials, and then those evil perps just got found not guilty, great job going to law school there. Maybe stick to being an expert witness next time and don't get distracted watching too much Law and Order. What do you think you will achieve by going to law school yourself that you couldn't better achieve by either hiring a lawyer who already has experience, or getting hired as an expert witness in these cases you care about? What would turning yourself into the world's least experienced new attorney achieve?
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Dec 14, 2023 19:13
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the small legal teams eliminating specific, narrow types of fraud is called "regulatory agencies"
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Dec 14, 2023 19:15
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euphronius posted:Law school is a real school with a curriculum. It’s not an MBA lol - where you learn the magic of a peppercorn.
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Dec 14, 2023 19:15
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Why not just audit the classes at your local lawschool? Or start a business that incorporates your loooove of fraud investigations?
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Dec 14, 2023 19:16
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CarForumPoster posted:Who hurt you? Was it law school? Go to law school if you want. It's fun, if you do well on your LSAT the type of programs that allow you to do online distance learning will shower you with scholarships as well. If you want to go to law school to accomplish some policy objective, it's the wrong field to do that.
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Dec 14, 2023 19:16
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CarForumPoster posted:
Those requirements exist for actual reasons, they aren't just gatekeepers. Litigation firms, especially plaintiff's firms, are very different from other kinds of business and someone without a litigation background running a litigation firm is a recipe for disaster. The analogy that springs to mind is a civilian running the military, but that isn't quite it because a plaintiff's litigation firm has to actively go out and start fights and then consistently win them; the better analogy is probably a civilian trying to run organized crime, in a very real "you are trying to gently caress people up and others are trying to do thr same to you" kind of way.
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Dec 14, 2023 19:20
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Anyway your ability to practice is going to be locally limited so …. I mean I have no idea why you don’t just hire a lawyer when needed They are sitting around waiting for you to call them
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Dec 14, 2023 19:22
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