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TF3 can introduce hybrid classes. New characters that use a limited selection from different classes. Spy with a single sticky bomb instead of a sapper. Heavy with a Blutsauger. Melee only class with access to the more gimmicky melee weapons. A robot spy that can self-destruct.
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Dec 15, 2023 05:19
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Been using the quickybomb launcher more and man is it just fun to tag retreating people with it or pester from long range. It's really good at that
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Dec 15, 2023 05:38
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Whitenoise Poster posted:I will never unequipped the default sticky launcher. ChaseSP posted:Been using the quickybomb launcher more and man is it just fun to tag retreating people with it or pester from long range. It's really good at that 
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Dec 15, 2023 08:15
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quote:quickybomb launcher https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Quickiebomb_Launcher Huh. Has it really been that long since I played or did I just forget this existed. I should reinstall. Every other shooter I have played chasing that dragon has let me down. Perhaps it's time to come home.
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Dec 15, 2023 08:53
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Whitenoise Poster posted:https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Quickiebomb_Launcher It was pretty boring on launch due to just having a flat -15% damage penalty and just having a faster charge rate/being able to destroy stickies. But some time after it got a damage buff depending how high you charge it meaning a max charge quickiebomb does more damage than a standard sticky and is much easier to hit at long range giving it a pretty great artillery like role. Oh also the stickies fizzled out after 2 seconds instead of the current 4 seconds.
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Dec 15, 2023 15:57
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the holy poopacy posted:I wouldn't mind seeing fewer weapons that are just small numbers tweaks. Not every weapon needs to be as transformative as the flaregun or banner, but they should probably be closer to that than like the Family Business. I would mind because "+10% damage, -15% speed" is generally a horribly boring way to add more content to a game and something I associate with much duller more realistic games than TF2. It also tends to be the case that its surprisingly hard to balance when people realise that certain stats matter more than others and it can throw off carefully determined damage thresholds. Think about stuff like the issue of the old Loch-n-Load and Direct Hit one shotting light classes.
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Dec 16, 2023 18:57
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ChaseSP posted:It was pretty boring on launch due to just having a flat -15% damage penalty and just having a faster charge rate/being able to destroy stickies. But some time after it got a damage buff depending how high you charge it meaning a max charge quickiebomb does more damage than a standard sticky and is much easier to hit at long range giving it a pretty great artillery like role. Oh also the stickies fizzled out after 2 seconds instead of the current 4 seconds. Actually they got rid of the fizzle out stat years ago during the Meet Your Match update, so now you can do regular sticky traps with it, takes longer between needing to charge them for full damage and the smaller clip size(but not max stickies out) but it's fully capable of doing them
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Dec 16, 2023 21:10
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very cool that Valve still hasn't done anything about bots from what I've seen so far
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Dec 16, 2023 23:09
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drrockso20 posted:Actually they got rid of the fizzle out stat years ago during the Meet Your Match update, so now you can do regular sticky traps with it, takes longer between needing to charge them for full damage and the smaller clip size(but not max stickies out) but it's fully capable of doing them cool, thanks you for this information 
JAnon fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Dec 16, 2023 |
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Dec 16, 2023 23:09
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khwarezm posted:Think about stuff like the issue of the old Loch-n-Load and Direct Hit one shotting light classes. They actually addressed the issue with the former by removing damage ranges which meant that under the old buff the Loch-n-Load could only do 120 damage max and so couldn't oneshot a scout from max health any longer. But then they decided to remove the damage buff anyway which felt weird to me it honestly feels not worth anything aside from the easier to hit pipes. I guess it deals 25% bonus damage to buildings. Maybe give it a mid-air crit so it could have a role as the demoman's direct hit equivalent imo speaking of which. The Direct Hit still murders Scout/Spy/sniper/Engie w/o gunslinger close up though at a whopping 140 damage. ChaseSP fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Dec 17, 2023 |
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Dec 17, 2023 02:47
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I mean I mostly just don't get the point of the Loch n Load now, not just because the model makes absolutely no sense when it has three shots (I guess they had to maintain that quirk across launchers!) but just generally its become such a minor side grade I don't think there's much reason for it to exist. At least in its old form it felt like it was this hard risk/reward thing going on with it when you only have half your usual clip and no rollers in exchange for one shotting scouts and a bit more precision. As a scout main I tended not to mind the old LnL too much compared to other weapons because it did feel like it was requiring more from the demo.
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Dec 17, 2023 03:02
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Yeah I loved the old LnL so much and the damage reduction made it not really worth the hassle
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Dec 17, 2023 03:07
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In a similar vein I really wish they'd change it so that the Direct Hit's damage bonus was only to players and not a universal bonus, cause it is really loving annoying that a soldier can just decide to equip that thing to invalidate Engineer as a class(sure I could just use the Wrangler to mitigate that somewhat but I hate using that thing for a multitude of reasons and want it to get a couple whacks with the nerf hammer too)
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Dec 17, 2023 03:15
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but what if it had THREE barrels. then what, fancypan't's
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Dec 17, 2023 03:15
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khwarezm posted:I mean I mostly just don't get the point of the Loch n Load now, not just because the model makes absolutely no sense when it has three shots (I guess they had to maintain that quirk across launchers!) but just generally its become such a minor side grade I don't think there's much reason for it to exist.  The old LnL only really punished getting directly in a demo's face, if you got popped much further than that the demo earned it. Only having to juke two shots was a pretty decent tradeoff. On the other hand if you were a 125 HP class that couldn't run at 30MPH and fly around midair then yeah you were just hosed, but who cares about them
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Dec 17, 2023 03:24
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The direct hit nuking buildings is essential for dealing with the pub situation of "our team is generally beating up on the other team but is unable to deal with the five sentries watching the last point". The counter is for the engineer's teammates to pressure anywhere the sentry can be spammed down from.
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Dec 17, 2023 03:25
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the only time i use the loch and load anymore is upward last on offense because its extra range means you can just barely snipe sentries on the top deck of red's spawn, from just outside of their range, from that doorway by the stairs next to the medium ammo pickup that spot is good because it's got a crate blocking the most common sniper sightlines and more crates for blocking line of sight from the most common muster position for the other classes that actually have to engage in positioning
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Dec 17, 2023 03:27
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Jabor posted:The direct hit nuking buildings is essential for dealing with the pub situation of "our team is generally beating up on the other team but is unable to deal with the five sentries watching the last point". The counter is for the engineer's teammates to pressure anywhere the sentry can be spammed down from. Way I see it a team that can't handle that scenario without a crutch like the Direct Hit deserves to lose
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Dec 17, 2023 03:48
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drrockso20 posted:Way I see it a team that can't handle that scenario without a crutch like the Direct Hit deserves to lose Try playing a combat class instead of Engineer # 5.
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Dec 17, 2023 03:53
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If an Engineer can’t handle a single Soldier yeeting rockets at their stuff, then they’re probably out of position.
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Dec 17, 2023 03:57
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Jabor posted:Try playing a combat class instead of Engineer # 5. I play pretty much every class except Spy(mostly because I am absolutely terrible at him) at a fairly even spread(if I were to consider myself a "Main" with any class it'd probably be Pyro) and I don't generally pick a class if there's already 2-3 of them out there on standard servers, and honestly I rarely ever encounter teams running more than one or two Engineers, the whole "5 Engineers on Last" thing is more of a meme than something that happens with anywhere near enough regularity to be worth considering on matters of class balance
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Dec 17, 2023 04:04
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Kaal posted:If an Engineer can’t handle a single Soldier yeeting rockets at their stuff, then they’re probably out of position. With any other rocket launcher I'd agree but the Direct Hit breaks the rules in that regard between both its faster projectile speed and increased damage, unless you're using the Wrangler* or have another Engineer on hand(or maybe a Pyro who's good at Airblasting) there's not much you can do against a Direct Hit Soldier, especially if they're exploiting an egregious sightline and shooting it from a range you can't really do anything against *which as I've said I would be more than fine seeing get nerfed into the floor
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Dec 17, 2023 04:11
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drrockso20 posted:especially if they're exploiting an egregious sightline and shooting it from a range you can't really do anything against that's God's way of telling you not to put a sentry there, the direct hit is merely an instrument of His righteous judgment
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Dec 17, 2023 04:15
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the holy poopacy posted:that's God's way of telling you not to put a sentry there, the direct hit is merely an instrument of His righteous judgment The problem is that the Direct Hit basically invalidates pretty much any good Sentry spot
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Dec 17, 2023 04:35
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LnL pipes should explode on contact with surfaces instead of shattering.
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Dec 17, 2023 04:49
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if there are sightlines beyond sentry range it's not a good sentry spot
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Dec 17, 2023 04:49
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You also have a perfect answer for this with the wrangler anyway, or the short circuit if you just don't want any projectile class to have fun.
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Dec 17, 2023 05:24
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Honestly i started having a lot of fun with engie once i internalized "poo poo will always get blown up" so instead of looking for perfect spots in places i dunno where they are, i use the jag and go for decent but uexpected spots, the kind they have to take time figuring out. If you get good sometimes you can do some real mean stuff on offence too.
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Dec 17, 2023 05:35
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the holy poopacy posted:if there are sightlines beyond sentry range it's not a good sentry spot There's not many places on most maps where a Sentry is both useful and not exposed to at least one sightline outside of its range(or other form of map geometry that can be easily exploited against it) ChaseSP posted:You also have a perfect answer for this with the wrangler anyway, or the short circuit if you just don't want any projectile class to have fun. Like I mentioned before I don't really like using the Wrangler and I'm not a fan of the Short Circuit much either(whereas I'm in the camp about the Wrangler needing a nerf*, the Short Circuit just needs to be reworked from the ground up again, at this point I'd just ditch the projectile deleting entirely and rework its damage output and metal costs to be used as a more standard weapon) *I'd say chop the damage resistance it gets in half or even down to a third of the current amount
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Dec 17, 2023 05:39
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hmm it's almost as though sentries are designed to be inherently vulnerable and getting blown up is the natural state of things
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Dec 17, 2023 05:42
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the holy poopacy posted:hmm it's almost as though sentries are designed to be inherently vulnerable and getting blown up is the natural state of things They are, I'm not debating that, I just feel that one specific weapon is incredibly overtuned for that purpose for how easy it is to use in that regard*(honestly even if the Direct Hit didn't deal extra damage to buildings it would still probably be the best Rocket Launcher to use against them due to the faster rockets), like I have no problem with the Loch N Load having a bonus against buildings due to how that weapon is constructed means it's a lot more fair to deal with(since unless the Demo in question is a god with pipes they make themselves a lot more vulnerable in a head on fight than with any of the other grenade launchers), and it is worth noting that I'm also advocating at the same time for two of Engineer's strongest defensive tools to also get nerfed hard and/or be completely reworked so I think it would be a fair trade *which has always felt weird when in every other respect it's the rocket launcher that takes the most skill to use(at least for direct combat purposes, if we took rocket jumping into account it gets a lot more complicated)
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Dec 17, 2023 05:56
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I hear you, but I think that expecting Soldiers to just have no good solution for aggressively placed Sentries wouldn’t be a good thing. The Direct Hit is specialized in Sentry-busting, yet a good Engy can certainly contest someone using it. Either they can use specialist weapons of their own, sit on the sentry and repair it, or place it in a defensive position.
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Dec 17, 2023 06:02
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Kaal posted:I hear you, but I think that expecting Soldiers to just have no good solution for aggressively placed Sentries wouldn’t be a good thing. The Direct Hit is specialized in Sentry-busting, yet a good Engy can certainly contest someone using it. Either they can use specialist weapons of their own, sit on the sentry and repair it, or place it in a defensive position. I mean that's part of why I suggested kneecapping the Wrangler and Short Circuit as part of the tradeoff, yes the Direct Hit loses some of its ability to bust Sentries(though it would still arguably be better at it than any other Rocket Launcher) but Engineer's defensive tools also get hit pretty hard, in fact I'd argue Engineer gets hit much harder by this trade than Soldier does
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Dec 17, 2023 06:29
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Between a living player and an aimbot you should always err in favor of the living player. Sentries should be erased by the Direct Hit, it doesn't earn that power for free compared to the base rocket launcher and it allows a match to move forward past a Sentry-blocked chokepoint. It doesn't matter how much work the Engineer put into building the Sentry, its purpose is to be blown up and the ground it covered taken by the other team. Kill the other team and take the ground back, then build another Sentry to secure it. It's the circle of life.
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Dec 17, 2023 06:53
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Like yeah I get the necessity of the Direct Hit when it was introduced because people back then didn't understand how to fight Sentries without an Uber but nowadays it is just plain overkill
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Dec 17, 2023 06:59
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Look, the real secret is that we should just delete the class system from this game and all play Soldier.
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Dec 17, 2023 07:01
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Most people grabbing a direct hit (including me) are pretty heavily nerfing themselves in regular fighting also to get the ability to more easily deal with sentries. Direct Hit has it's reputation as the best melee weapon for a reason.
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Dec 17, 2023 07:26
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See if I encounter a Soldier actually good with the Direct Hit in using it against other people they have my respect, for the majority of people I see who equip it solely to deal with nests they're otherwise too incompetent to deal with I have nothing but naked disdain for and wish bad things upon them
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Dec 17, 2023 07:48
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Well then pick a class with a real gun and go make bad things happen to them!!! If they solved your nest then you have nothing to lose switching classes.
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Dec 17, 2023 07:55
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| # ? May 30, 2024 21:32 |
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drrockso20 posted:See if I encounter a Soldier actually good with the Direct Hit in using it against other people they have my respect, for the majority of people I see who equip it solely to deal with nests they're otherwise too incompetent to deal with I have nothing but naked disdain for and wish bad things upon them "How can I deal with DH Soldiers as Engi?" or "How do I tell a good sentry spot from a bad one?" We've been dealing with the Direct Hit for 14 years, you can figure it out, too. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Dec 17, 2023 |
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Dec 17, 2023 09:47
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