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Actually, having left in 5th as a kid and coming back now Are Votann confirmed to be the squats and oops turns out they didn't all get eaten, or are they a whole new set of guys who happen to also be space dwarves? This question has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to make some space dorfs once I finish painting my marine army
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Dec 15, 2023 01:11
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Technically the Squats never did get eaten by the nids, that was just a joke that was repeated so often it sorta technically became canon. I think the only mention I can recall of was in the preface of the anthology for Ian Watson's Inquisitor War series. But otherwise, yes. They're the same essentially. There's the Votann as the capitalist miners, then there's the Necromunda Squats who are just miners.
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Dec 15, 2023 01:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCOSao1KEQo&t=530s what the fuuuuuck?!
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Dec 15, 2023 04:26
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Actually, having left in 5th as a kid and coming back now They wrote it as 'squats' and a few other races like the Demiurge were just Imperial names for various LoV organizations or individuals that Imperials had come into contact with and felt no need to correct them on because they didn't want to give anything away.
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Dec 15, 2023 04:42
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Actually, having left in 5th as a kid and coming back now Votann are the Squats, they are based in the galactic core but have enclaves and scouting fleets throughout the galaxy, one of those got eaten by 'nids and the Imperium incorrectly thought that was their whole civilization. Also Squat has been recontextualized as an in-universe slur that Imperials use for them. They call themselves the Kin. Also they have Men of Iron fully integrated into their civilization as equal citizens and have functional if deteriorated STC constructors called Votann or Ancestor cores. Strong Deep Rock Galactic vibes but a little less jokey.
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Dec 15, 2023 04:48
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why aren't there any Power Feet? Imperium soldiers aren't allowed to kick? I would also accept a boot with a lil' Power Fist on the end of it.
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Dec 15, 2023 05:01
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Captain Magic posted:why aren't there any Power Feet? Imperium soldiers aren't allowed to kick?
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Dec 15, 2023 05:04
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Cooked Auto posted:Technically the Squats never did get eaten by the nids, that was just a joke that was repeated so often it sorta technically became canon. I'm not entirely sure where capitalism comes in here for the Votann.
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Dec 15, 2023 05:30
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Lostconfused posted:Because that's just power armor and nobody is stupid enough to waste that on an imperial soldier. I mean officers get power fists sometimes, and space marines have power fists that aren’t just their armored fists. I want thunder-crackling mega kicks!
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Dec 15, 2023 05:51
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I don't think England is known for a martial tradition that involves kicking people so it never crossed their minds
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Dec 15, 2023 05:52
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Eej posted:I'm not entirely sure where capitalism comes in here for the Votann. There's really nothing particularly capitalist about them outside of the 'gathering resources' shtick and the fact that some of the organizations in the faction are referred to in terms that sound somewhat like a corporation, or in terms of their wealth. Their emphasis on treating each other equally and not exploiting even their robotic members of society is extremely anti-capitalist. But aside from that, it's still 40k, so they're still very much okay with just mulching entire planets and their populations for resources from time to time.
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Dec 15, 2023 06:55
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Lostconfused posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCOSao1KEQo&t=530s Did he just break some kind of NDA on what's going on with the Golden Throne/Emperor? Was that just his idea of what those things are, because I've never heard anyone say that about the throne. Either way, it's cool to see an interview with him. I'd love to sit and talk to him about 40k
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Dec 15, 2023 07:03
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Yeah the core value of every Votann society is that Kindred are family and all members are intensely loyal to each other. The various Leagues are described as Really Rich, Space Truckers, Militaristic Space Fascists and Super Miserable Guys Who Are Having Kids To Send To War etc.
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Dec 15, 2023 07:09
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:Did he just break some kind of NDA on what's going on with the Golden Throne/Emperor? Was that just his idea of what those things are, because I've never heard anyone say that about the throne. Unfortunately it doesn't really matter what Blanche says; he's not in control of the IP any more than you or I am. I do wish his version of the 40k universe was what we had, though. Today's version of it feels like all the corners and rough edges have been smoothed over, and he's absolutely right that the money-making machine has effectively killed most of the mysteries of the 40k universe by turning every part of it into something that can be sold.
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Dec 15, 2023 08:11
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really don't know how you can get "nothing particularly capitalist" out of anything as tied up in corporate imagery and language as the Votann. even the token contrarian sovietesque sub-faction has an extremely corporate brand logo, there's a small throwaway about a league that leases out their proprietary interstellar comms network, lots of pointed details like that it's made murky by stapling it onto the standard GW dwarf style guilds and kin and grudges and berserkers, all that bullshit, but it's quite obvious the intent is they're some kind of capitalist as default. they're just presented as being that in a mostly straightforward tone instead of overtly satirically. you can kind of read between the lines and get something like... well they're more liberal & egalitarian than the usual 40K factions to their population yet still do most of the same things otherwise... but it's so thin as to seem an accidentally satirical by-product of misguided attempts to create a faction that's 'good' and uncomplicated to identify with
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Dec 15, 2023 09:29
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An entire faction focused on mass production, resource extraction, efficiency, and homogeneity is a pretty clear reference to industrialism, if nothing else. Whether it is a parody of free enterprise or central planning is less clear to me.
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Dec 15, 2023 09:57
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Probably should've used industrialist if anything. v v
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Dec 15, 2023 12:30
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if it's meant to be a shot at central planning they really dropped the ball by not mentioning lamp production quotas
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Dec 15, 2023 12:35
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Lostconfused posted:As cool as Custodes are, they only have two poses. Guy holding his weapon vertically, and guy holding his weapon horizontally. No, there are also Allarus Custodians. They hold their weapons at an angle, but unfortunately have their legs positioned as if they've all pooped their pants and are trying to keep them apart. (The facial expression does not help.)  The posing is unfortunate, because I really like the idea of Allarus, and I had a great experience assembling and modelling mine. Very well made kits. Probably the first models models where I actually like my finished work. I did try to angle their gun-arms and heads so it looked like they were actually aiming at something, with moderate success. I'll be getting more of these guys, although I need to figure out how to make them just a tiny bit more dynamic.
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Dec 15, 2023 12:39
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Eej posted:I don't think England is known for a martial tradition that involves kicking people so it never crossed their minds Well they have shin kicking, or "purring" as I learned of it but that was as much a combat sport as an actual martial art as I understand it. It might also be/have been pretty regional and I'm fairly confident that it's not widely practiced in the modern era (I only know of it because of my friend who is something of a martial historian.)
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Dec 15, 2023 13:34
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Assessor of Maat posted:really don't know how you can get "nothing particularly capitalist" out of anything as tied up in corporate imagery and language as the Votann. even the token contrarian sovietesque sub-faction has an extremely corporate brand logo, there's a small throwaway about a league that leases out their proprietary interstellar comms network, lots of pointed details like that Ok, but that still isn't really capitalism. I haven't seen anything about a small group of kin controlling economic resources, or anything about how labour works. I think you are confusing industry and capitalism. The USSR still had companies and logos, plus buying and selling of goods, those don't equal capitalism.
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Dec 15, 2023 13:44
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They they are more merchantalist than capitalist.
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Dec 15, 2023 16:46
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They also have a Guild system that crosses Kindred lines and guilds as a concept (essentially a membership only monopoly on the means or production) are historically opposed to capitalism (capital controls the means of production).
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Dec 15, 2023 16:58
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Athas posted:No, there are also Allarus Custodians. They hold their weapons at an angle, but unfortunately have their legs positioned as if they've all pooped their pants and are trying to keep them apart. (The facial expression does not help.) A great conversion is to give them cataphractii claw arms and make them look like really angry anteaters.
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Dec 15, 2023 17:17
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My hot take is custodes shouldn't be a playable faction. At best they should have been a detachment. It makes no sense to me why they're out beyond the palace getting into random skirmishes when they're the palace guard. It's like if the UK deployed the King's Guard and the Beefeaters to Iraq in 2003.
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Dec 15, 2023 17:32
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Testikles posted:My hot take is custodes shouldn't be a playable faction. At best they should have been a detachment. It makes no sense to me why they're out beyond the palace getting into random skirmishes when they're the palace guard. It's like if the UK deployed the King's Guard and the Beefeaters to Iraq in 2003. custodes had their continuity enhanced to be kind of an Interpol type of thing where some guys are on guard duty but there are several other orgs within the org that do poo poo like hunt down dangerous artifacts or proactively leave the palace to chase plots against Terra. they do more than stand 1000 deep outside the front door.
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Dec 15, 2023 17:36
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But Testikles doesn't like it!
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Dec 15, 2023 17:37
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They really needed to be an army of something like six dudes though.
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Dec 15, 2023 18:28
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There's like 10,000 of them. A few of them get to leave Terra and get into scraps over very important things that threaten the Imperium every once and a while. As a treat.
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Dec 15, 2023 18:30
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Here in the states the Secret Service does a lot more than just stand beside the President. They're in charge of both stopping counterfeit money and giving people who threaten to kill the president a stern talking to. I'm pretty sure they have their own personal special forces units as well like a lot of other departments do. It's not hard to 40k that up into what the Custodes are doing.
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Dec 15, 2023 18:30
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AnEdgelord posted:and giving people who threaten to kill the president a stern talking to. Something which this forum is well aware of.
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Dec 15, 2023 18:40
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Big "no, we have Abaddon at home" energy
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Dec 15, 2023 18:44
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Me:
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Dec 15, 2023 18:50
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AnEdgelord posted:Here in the states the Secret Service does a lot more than just stand beside the President. They're in charge of both stopping counterfeit money and giving people who threaten to kill the president a stern talking to. I'm pretty sure they have their own personal special forces units as well like a lot of other departments do. It's not hard to 40k that up into what the Custodes are doing. Yeah and there’s a bunch of them. There’s about 7,000 Secret Service officers, and another 2,500 Capitol Police officers, plus a ton of Custode-adjacent groups like Metro PD, private security, ceremonial military, active-duty military, and national guard.
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Dec 15, 2023 19:09
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AnEdgelord posted:Here in the states the Secret Service does a lot more than just stand beside the President. They're in charge of both stopping counterfeit money and giving people who threaten to kill the president a stern talking to. I'm pretty sure they have their own personal special forces units as well like a lot of other departments do. It's not hard to 40k that up into what the Custodes are doing. Don't forget helping collect and tore strange artifacts with unusual powers. Though I think that was more of a secondment thing since Jinks was ATF and got brought in too...
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Dec 15, 2023 19:13
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Kaal posted:Yeah and there’s a bunch of them. There’s about 7,000 Secret Service officers, and another 2,500 Capitol Police officers, plus a ton of Custode-adjacent groups like Metro PD, private security, ceremonial military, active-duty military, and national guard. and that's not even counting how many Dreadnoughts they have.
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Dec 15, 2023 19:13
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Virtual Russian posted:Ok, but that still isn't really capitalism. I haven't seen anything about a small group of kin controlling economic resources, or anything about how labour works. 40K is all about aesthetic anyway. dunno why you'd expect a faction consisting of extraction and manufacturing guilds with heavy corporate branding and private armies to get into the nitty-gritty of beneficial ownership.
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Dec 15, 2023 19:15
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AnEdgelord posted:Here in the states the Secret Service does a lot more than just stand beside the President. They're in charge of both stopping counterfeit money and giving people who threaten to kill the president a stern talking to. I'm pretty sure they have their own personal special forces units as well like a lot of other departments do. It's not hard to 40k that up into what the Custodes are doing. And they have RADAR!
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Dec 15, 2023 19:46
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Testikles posted:My hot take is custodes shouldn't be a playable faction. At best they should have been a detachment. It makes no sense to me why they're out beyond the palace getting into random skirmishes when they're the palace guard. It's like if the UK deployed the King's Guard and the Beefeaters to Iraq in 2003. I mean, yeah, but then the same argument could have been credibly made about Space Marines showing up on actual contested battlefields any time post-Heresy.
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Dec 15, 2023 19:48
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Virtual Russian posted:Ok, but that still isn't really capitalism. I haven't seen anything about a small group of kin controlling economic resources, or anything about how labour works. I think you are confusing industry and capitalism. The USSR still had companies and logos, plus buying and selling of goods, those don't equal capitalism. my intended point with the logo was that all their factions have the visual language of a corporation applied to them, and to be specific about my assumption, I think that's obviously an art direction choice made to get people to think of your cyberpunk corporate state kind of thing. anyway. going over it again to refresh my memory, I don't think what they've written really makes sense (e.g., for all the mentions of trade and tariffs, if they explicitly refer to use of currency anywhere I must've completely missed it). but insofar as they're specific, it's outlined the governing is done by (ad hoc?) councils formed from military commanders, the wizards, and the most prominent guildmasters (though the book doesn't say what the connotation of that is exactly and mildly contradicts itself) and that the guilds are what's primarily responsible for industry and administration of services, and are also in open competition with each other with the illustrative example being over mining claims. they also say guilds aren't required to be but are typically operating within one of the leagues and by one kin group and attempting to expand outside is asking for enterprising locals to instead set up their own new guild and outcompete them. not everyone joins a guild so there's a freelancer class but that seems to be a minority, and members of guilds pay tithes and have to meet some kind of accreditation standards set by the guildmasters of that guild I think the pieces they're laying out here fit under capitalism broadly, but it wouldn't be called mercantilism, and I genuinely can't see how to parse it as socialist. if a few details were different I might say they're some corporatist sort of thing instead, but I don't think that quite fits? if you've got a better suggestion of how this half baked crap should be pinned down I'm obviously interested to hear it
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Dec 15, 2023 20:07
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