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redreader posted:Not sure if this is the correct thread but, I'm out of work, was laid off a month ago. I'm doing interviews now and one place is intent on hiring ASAP, like by the 15th. I think I might do pretty well and get an offer, but it's for a lot less than my previous role, and the role isn't as good (qa/sdet contract with an emphasis on qa at the new place, vs sdet permanent for more money at my older job). If you need work take it. If it's a contract position it's easy to paper over those as intermediate roles you took while looking for something longer term to future employers.
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Dec 8, 2023 18:42
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| # ? May 17, 2024 22:07 |
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Obviously you'll nuke the bridge from orbit with the company you left hanging out to dry. Depending on how big/small your industry is that might or might not be a bigger problem than just never being able to work for that one company ever again. Broadly, you get one quick job hop every 10 years without doing material damage to your resume. It's usually wise to save it in case you ever take a job and immediately realize the company you just joined is deeply hosed and you need to get out. But if there's truly a giant amount of money staring you in the face and you're willing to take some risk, sure, you can use your one job hop (or take a second and eat the resume damage) to grab it.
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Dec 8, 2023 18:43
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Thank you! I realise this is putting the cart before the horse, I may not get an offer at all but I want to know what's up. The other question is: do I have to tell people/put on my resume that I worked at the contracting company and left it? It may be better to leave it off my resume if I leave it within a month or two, but I'm not sure if that's 'allowed'?
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Dec 8, 2023 18:52
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If it's that short just leave it off
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Dec 8, 2023 18:52
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redreader posted:Thank you! You can just say it's a was a short term contract; no one will bat an eye. You can put it on your resume or not. You should disclose it to the background check thing.
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Dec 8, 2023 18:54
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redreader posted:Not sure if this is the correct thread but, I'm out of work, was laid off a month ago. I'm doing interviews now and one place is intent on hiring ASAP, like by the 15th. I think I might do pretty well and get an offer, but it's for a lot less than my previous role, and the role isn't as good (qa/sdet contract with an emphasis on qa at the new place, vs sdet permanent for more money at my older job). If it’s a one time thing and you’re ok with burning a bridge it’s not a bad idea. Just say that you’re looking for something else since it wasn’t a great cultural fit. Of course you could try to negotiate for more money and a permanent role although that seems unlikely. But asking never hurts (and if it does, it’s a major bullet dodged).
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Dec 8, 2023 19:21
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If it's just a contract role then ask if you can put the second start date after the end of the contract and simply do not renew when your term ends.Arquinsiel posted:Because I got bait and switched and am looking to move immediately after starting I broke rule #1 of this thread and said "just match what I'm on now" to a recruiter. I saw the job posted elsewhere today and I'll be leaving at least 50% of their range on the table. Let that be a lesson to everyone else.
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Dec 8, 2023 20:27
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redreader posted:Thank you! I'm not a frequent/major contributor to this thread, but FWIW here's my advice if you do decide to take the intermediate job and are looking for how to explain it during future interviews: I think it's fine to list it on your resume. If asked to explain what happened, I would say something like, "Even though it was brief, I enjoyed my time at Company A, it was a great place to work. However, Company B made me a great offer which was an opportunity that I simply couldn't turn down." I mean, that's just a rough idea of what I would say, but my emphasis would be to focus on how you were desired and wanted by Company B and how great of an opportunity it was. I think hiring managers can understand and appreciate that much more than saying something like Company A wasn't a good cultural fit or something like that. Just my two cents. Good luck! 
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Dec 8, 2023 20:32
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Unless the gap is significant you can leave it off. Typical BG is only going to report information on where you've worked that you've already provided to them, they call to confirm. The Work Number or a couple other services like that may give additional information, but you can also opt out of their reporting.
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Dec 8, 2023 21:14
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About six months ago I started a new job. Three other people in the office work slight variations of my exact position, and through an insane comedy of errors, all three will be gone by January. My boss had floated the idea of me "absorbing" one of the empty spots, and I'm interviewing for it this week. I'm in the office from 8-4, but I do about 2.5 hours of work per day; so taking on the new job would not kill me from stress, but I would be taking over for someone who was paid 40/hrs week + benefits, etc. Where do I start with this? Self-advocacy is one of my weak points. Has anyone here successfully navigated something like this before? Right now I make $20/hr; I believe the max someone with my exact job title can make is $32/hr. I think the lowest I'd be willing to accept is $26.
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Dec 13, 2023 00:17
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in this case? You ask the people leaving what you should ask for for pay - both what they make, and what they think its worth. (depending on your rapport, how many fucks hey they have left to give, and don't forget you'll be doing three people's worth of work so that needs to be baked in and the talk about 'so, you're back filling positions and its not just me, right' happens)
TheParadigm fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Dec 13, 2023 |
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Dec 13, 2023 00:51
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sounds like you should be asking for $32. what are they going to do, fire the only worker?
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Dec 13, 2023 01:12
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Since you're interviewing for it, it sounds like they are actually planning on giving you some sort of raise/compensation increase, but if you end up absorbing this person's work and they don't immediately give you a raise (or at least *in writing*, the timeline of when/how you will get your raise), start looking to get the hell out of there. I've seen people strung along for years with promise of a raise for absorbing other jobs and never get it.
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Dec 13, 2023 15:51
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What things do I need to take into account/ask for when moving country for a job? I haven't even applied yet but I want to think about what my "stupid to say no" amount is before I ask for the salary range. It would be moving to a country (norway) where English is widely spoken and used for work but not the language of schooling so I would need international schooling for kids. The intention would be to go for 3-4 years then return, so we likely wouldn't be buying a home or looking permanent residency. On my list so far: Relocation allowance + settling assistance Car allowance Cost of a storage unit to store belongings in home country International school for kids Living cost delta (rent etc) Costs and income in renting out home house, rearrange insurance Travel costs to fly home to see family and friends every few months or so Visa and working rights Tax issues I don't expect all of these to be line items in the offer, but I need to account for them before knowing if the move would be worthwhile.
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Dec 15, 2023 12:24
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What kind of job are you applying to? Big international company?
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Dec 15, 2023 12:40
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CancerCakes posted:What things do I need to take into account/ask for when moving country for a job? I haven't even applied yet but I want to think about what my "stupid to say no" amount is before I ask for the salary range. Depending on your role / line of work obviously, but in IT take home pay in EU is generally a lot lower than the US. If you’re making FAANG money now, expect to take at least a 50% pay cut. You won’t even get a match, let alone an offer you can’t refuse. The upside is stuff like (virtually) free healthcare, education, etc. Since you don’t want to use public education, sending your kids to an international school will likely cost you even more of your take home pay. So if you’re in it for the money, it’s likely better to stay where you are or make a move to a different company in the US. This is generally speaking (and solely based on the IT industry), if you have a unique set of skills in high demand everywhere (or  in particular) it might be an entirely different ballgame. I can’t speak for Norway in particular but half of your list will probably be coming out of your own pocket if you’re working a somewhat generic job. It seems unlikely your employer will pay for regular flights home, storage or your kids school. Again, it’s context dependant. If you’re looking at C-suite jobs in F500 companies, your list is too short and you’ll get everything including your own private driver. LochNessMonster fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Dec 16, 2023 |
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Dec 15, 2023 13:18
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Got offers from both the places I applied to. Both are neutral if not worse compensation than what I have right now (and it's not like I'm absurdly over paid here...). Really goes to show the impact of the recession environment and the mass layoffs that have been going on this year and last. Not sure what the strategy should be here other than to point out that I have a mortgage to pay and during an inflation crisis that is already making life miserable, it would be challenging to take a position for less income than what I'm currently earning.
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Dec 16, 2023 00:17
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Femtosecond posted:Got offers from both the places I applied to. Both are neutral if not worse compensation than what I have right now (and it's not like I'm absurdly over paid here...). Really goes to show the impact of the recession environment and the mass layoffs that have been going on this year and last. It's a no-win situation unfortunately. But that's how its gone for me recently as well.
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Dec 16, 2023 00:50
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leper khan posted:It's a no-win situation unfortunately. But that's how its gone for me recently as well. Same here. I found that my employer values me way more than the competition. All the offers this year came in lower than I make, less 401k match, less bonus, and less PTO. On the bright side it makes me feel better about my current role and they apparently want me around since I just got a pretty nice out of cycle bonus.
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Dec 16, 2023 01:38
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Femtosecond posted:Got offers from both the places I applied to. Both are neutral if not worse compensation than what I have right now (and it's not like I'm absurdly over paid here...). Really goes to show the impact of the recession environment and the mass layoffs that have been going on this year and last.
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Dec 16, 2023 01:51
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And you don't need to justify it. It weakens your position to try to.
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Dec 16, 2023 04:37
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For real. The only thing to do is indicate that you liked the opportunity but would need $x to move. I recently got lowballed by a faang and asked for literally double. To accept, I would need the gently caress-you money that it would take to uproot my life and work for a megacorp. Didn’t get it but I felt good sticking to my guns.
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Dec 16, 2023 13:03
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If I'm happy with my previous salary and would like it again at the next job, and it's a bit high (it was a california salary, I'm in CO now) would it be a bad idea to say it when I'm asked what I was last paid?
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Dec 21, 2023 18:16
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redreader posted:If I'm happy with my previous salary and would like it again at the next job, and it's a bit high (it was a california salary, I'm in CO now) would it be a bad idea to say it when I'm asked what I was last paid? Yes because there’s a chance that could’ve been willing to offer you more, and when you say that you’re not setting a minimum for their offer like you think you are, you’re setting a maximum.
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Dec 21, 2023 18:27
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Eh, I think if you know the market and you think that last job was generally above in the market then it's a good way of anchoring high. Does depend on what happened. If you were let go then it does set something off a maximum. But that might be ok, if you say nothing they'll probably start you lower. If you left voluntarily like a move or something then that can be a really good anchor. So like usual it depends. If your unclear on the market it's better to stay mum.
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Dec 22, 2023 04:12
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redreader posted:If I'm happy with my previous salary and would like it again at the next job, and it's a bit high (it was a california salary, I'm in CO now) would it be a bad idea to say it when I'm asked what I was last paid? This might be moot point anyway- you're in Colorado. If you plan on staying in Colorado, this is an illegal question. (Source: tons on google, but here's a random pick from the bunch https://fitsmallbusiness.com/salary-history-ban/). Someone might still try to ask you illegally though (to which I'd recommend telling them it's illegal, but whatever). If you're staying in Colorado, but working remotely for a company in a different state, it's more of a gray area. But regardless, even if you want to keep the same salary, telling them your current salary (or most recent salary) isn't going to be a benefit to you.
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Dec 22, 2023 15:50
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Colorado also requires pay to be included in the job posting. Some companies put a large range but most seem to give a reasonable range.
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Dec 22, 2023 19:13
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I think my current employer refuses to hire remote employees there and a few other states (seemed like those with similar laws but I’m sure there’s other equally stupid reasons).
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Dec 22, 2023 19:32
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So I had an interview with a company that's a total match/shoe in for my skill set in which a lot of folks in my skillset end up working for said company. Thing is, they're genuinely exceptionally busy and slow to respond - but I ended up in a conversation with one of my peers working with them and he basically said he mentioned my application and they were aware of it. But then he said: "I literally just spoke about your application in our leadership meeting And between you and me, it seems the salary expectations are on the upper end of the whole applicants." I asked for 10k over my last starting role in 2021, but does this imply he saw what I applied at? I have a decade of experience in said role. It's really an ideal company for me to work at because I know how they operate but it sounds like they asked him to low-ball me.
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Dec 22, 2023 22:17
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They might have been lovely and asked him to do it to try lower your expectations. I've had that happen before. You may also be getting warned that the pay is poo poo there. Stick to your guns.
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Dec 22, 2023 22:25
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"Yes, that's because I'm on the upper end of the applicants."
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Dec 22, 2023 22:46
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I've known the guy for years and outside of said company. We're quite close. They have always paid a little under, but they're literally the perfect pivot for me where a year or two there lets me pivot from my current role to a step up and look at a 50% pay bump, but all of that is theoretical with no offer.
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Dec 22, 2023 22:53
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Yup, I've had that happen before. Dude is even a goon.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:29
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:Yes because there’s a chance that could’ve been willing to offer you more, and when you say that you’re not setting a minimum for their offer like you think you are, you’re setting a maximum. I'm in Colorado and the top of the pay range for this job and most similar jobs is 24k less than what I was getting before. I have no reason to think they'll go 24k above their range magically without me mentioning my previous salary, but I doubt they'll do it even then. I suppose I just have to get a job and carry on applying for jobs that are offering more.
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Dec 26, 2023 08:07
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redreader posted:I'm in Colorado and the top of the pay range for this job and most similar jobs is 24k less than what I was getting before. I have no reason to think they'll go 24k above their range magically without me mentioning my previous salary, but I doubt they'll do it even then. I suppose I just have to get a job and carry on applying for jobs that are offering more. In that case I would probably mention it to try to get the job up leveled. Success chance is low but that's a good way to anchor high.
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Dec 26, 2023 16:26
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redreader posted:I'm in Colorado and the top of the pay range for this job and most similar jobs is 24k less than what I was getting before. I have no reason to think they'll go 24k above their range magically without me mentioning my previous salary, but I doubt they'll do it even then. I suppose I just have to get a job and carry on applying for jobs that are offering more. Fwiw our postings (also in Denver here) do not post the top of the range. We post the range for the bottom 2/3rds. Hiring into the top 1/3 is tough but doable for the right person and a good manager who pushes HR. So there might be room above the posted salary but maybe not 24k worth.
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Dec 26, 2023 18:26
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spwrozek posted:Fwiw our postings (also in Denver here) do not post the top of the range. We post the range for the bottom 2/3rds. Hiring into the top 1/3 is tough but doable for the right person and a good manager who pushes HR. So there might be room above the posted salary but maybe not 24k worth. I had no idea! Thanks for letting me know. This is the kind of thing that I'd never find out without being told. I suppose it makes sense but I'd literally never heard that before. If the pay range is 30k the top third would be an extra 15k, so that's good enough.
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Dec 26, 2023 19:00
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Granted we are just one company but I have heard from others that the practice is similar at their work. Others I know have tried to go above the range though and been told the range is firm. So I can't say for sure it is an available option but I know people play games with postings. It still meets the letter of the law but may not be helpful. Like Lockback mentioned you may need to get the money conversation out there.
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Dec 26, 2023 19:13
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spwrozek posted:Granted we are just one company but I have heard from others that the practice is similar at their work. Others I know have tried to go above the range though and been told the range is firm. So I can't say for sure it is an available option but I know people play games with postings. It still meets the letter of the law but may not be helpful.  the range is firm so are my requirements, is there another role that would be a better fit?
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Dec 26, 2023 19:42
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| # ? May 17, 2024 22:07 |
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Hey Goons, I've graduated from the "resume and interview" thread and now need negotiation help. I basically got 2 offers on Friday. One was an offer to return to a job I was laid off from in July as their source of work came back. Same pay as before, no room to negotiate. My previous role was as a telecom engineering PM. Our main client stopped all work in June 2023, and right after July 4 they laid off 20% of my department. The client came back and has promised work out through 2026 at minimum, and then - who the gently caress knows, more layoffs I guess? I should get out of telecom, but I've done it for almost 12 years now. The other offer is a completely different career path working at the IT/data center of a large bank in a project coordinator/administrative capacity. My previous job was making somewhere around $63k, after a few 3.27% raises I was never exactly sure what the number actually was. This was my comfort zone niche that I've done for over a decade. They've offered me my position back at my old pay, full stop, do not pass Go, do not collect $200, take it or leave it. "Unlimited" PTO, I know its a scam but whatever, it is what it is. Fully remote so no wear and tear on a car, I loved my coworkers and still keep in touch with almost all of them and my old boss was the greatest and has been fully transparent about the process and is fighting for me but understands my plight at this point but her hands are tied. She won't begrudge me if I go with the other option. She cried on the Zoom call when she let me go the first time because it was totally out of her hands and we were tight. The offer from the bank job is $62k. I think on the listing the salary range was $60k-$65k? 3 days in office, 2 days out. Commute is ~30 mins one way under ideal circumstances. 4 weeks of PTO, which is very solid. Lots of good benefits and perks, including 16 hours paid "school function" time for parent-teacher meetings, school events, etc (which is great because we have an elementary school kid and their school likes to do events during the day), health & wellness reimbursements, discount plans. Cafeteria in the building. But this is uncharted waters for me. I might totally suck at it! I'm scared. What is a reasonable counter? Is $70k too much to ask for? I'm going from barely touching my car in the last 3 years to a weekly commute so I feel like I need something for that at least. I would take the job as-is, I've been out of work since July, but I fee like you're "supposed" to counter with something. I know they said $65 max on the listing, but even if $70 is ridiculous, it gives them room to come back, right?
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