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Here's what Murderbot's face should look like for the majority of the screen time: Kestral posted:Murderbot feels genuinely unfilmable. The entire charm of the premise is that you've got what is essentially the Terminator, but its internal monologue is funny and charming. Its outward presentation to everyone else - which is the only thing we can really get in a modern TV show, since TV and film consider voiceovers to be the Great Satan - is not just uninteresting but inscrutable without the inner voice. I think an unusually competent writing/production tram could do an at least interesting take on the series from the alternate perspective of the humans interacting with Murderbot without resorting to hokey voiceovers or other such gimmicks. A more direct adaption seems less likely to work. I mean the Mandalorian works with helmeted characters (I don't think it's a good show for other reasons).
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Dec 16, 2023 21:30
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Precambrian Video Games posted:I think an unusually competent writing/production tram could do an at least interesting take on the series from the alternate perspective of the humans interacting with Murderbot without resorting to hokey voiceovers or other such gimmicks. A more direct adaption seems less likely to work. I mean the Mandalorian works with helmeted characters (I don't think it's a good show for other reasons). The interiority of the character is the entire point. It's not the helmet that's the problem, it's that Murderbot is both inscrutable and boring if you're not inside its head getting its commentary on what's going on. Because let's be real here, the things going on around Murderbot are not all that interesting on their own. They're very standard SF fare, elevated almost entirely by the fact that the person who has to deal with it all is a neurotic basket case on the cyborg equivalent of the autism spectrum, with writing that actually pulls that off in a way that's funny and charming instead of offensive or tedious.
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Dec 16, 2023 21:55
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I suppose you could probably turn it into an episodic show about murderbot going around saving people from the perspective of the people being saved but it would turn it into something very different
mystes fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Dec 16, 2023 |
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Dec 16, 2023 22:24
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Precambrian Video Games posted:Here's what Murderbot's face should look like for the majority of the screen time: Murderbot spends most of the series without armour? I think actually all of it, after the first novella. It complains about this very frequently.
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Dec 16, 2023 22:48
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StrixNebulosa posted:re: Malazan chat, humble's bringing back the bundle for it: gently caress yesssss
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Dec 16, 2023 23:37
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I think murderbot probably just needs voiceover.
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Dec 16, 2023 23:42
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StrixNebulosa posted:re: Malazan chat, humble's bringing back the bundle for it: Thank you, these are somewhere on my long term reading list, just need to get the Esslemont novels now I think?
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Dec 17, 2023 00:19
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pik_d posted:just need to get the Esslemont novels now I think? you do not
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Dec 17, 2023 00:26
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pik_d posted:Thank you, these are somewhere on my long term reading list, just need to get the Esslemont novels now I think? Without having read them or the complete Malazan: as I understand it, the intended reading order is Malazan 1-10 and then as many spin-off novels as you enjoy, applying Dune rules as you go. Don't waste your cash on the spin-offs until you've been through those 10 bricks!
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Dec 17, 2023 00:38
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think murderbot probably just needs voiceover. Do the entire show in first person camera with voiceover like those bits in Peep Show. The Whole Thing. Never show what murderbot looks like 
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Dec 17, 2023 01:15
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Going to be incredibly disappointed if the Murderbot intro song isn't Robo Sapiens by Die Krupps.
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Dec 17, 2023 01:22
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Why did scifi and fantasy book covers move from awesome paintings of the characters in climactic moments to bland photoshops of stock images and abstract patterns that make them all interchangeable? I've heard "market changes" but I genuinely can't imagine who prefers the modern covers to traditional ones.
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Dec 17, 2023 01:25
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Hiro Protagonist posted:I genuinely can't imagine who prefers the modern covers to traditional ones. The people paying for them.
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Dec 17, 2023 01:44
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Bought and read The Black Stone Heart off of a discussion here a while back about books with cover artwork depicting cool things that actually happen in the novel. While the depicted scene was indeed cool I'm not sure if I want to read the next book in the series. The main character largely seems to go around doing unspeakably awful things, and then have an inner "aw shucks, that's not who I am" dialogue about whether or not doing undisputably awful things to further his own agenda of vengeance and conquest is actually "evil." I think murdering innocent villagers so his hot goth undead necromancer girlfriend can be more physically attractive to him, and have warm blood in her veins to not gross him out when they gently caress, while he plots to betray his promise to free her from undead servitude because he'd rather have an undead slave necromancer girlfriend who can raise an undead slave army for him, does in fact pretty clearly count as "evil."
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Dec 17, 2023 01:45
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Why did scifi and fantasy book covers move from awesome paintings of the characters in climactic moments to bland photoshops of stock images and abstract patterns that make them all interchangeable? I've heard "market changes" but I genuinely can't imagine who prefers the modern covers to traditional ones. Real art is expensive and since people will buy books regardless of cover, there's no incentive to get a real cover
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Dec 17, 2023 01:46
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This is what we get for not judging books by their covers  Murderbot should have voice over like American Psycho
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Dec 17, 2023 02:35
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Murderbot is just going to pause randomly mid-combat for an 80's coming of age style voiceover monologue before doing Matrix moves with whedon-esque superhero poses and quips.
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Dec 17, 2023 09:26
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or instead of voiceover murderbot could constantly speak in asides to the viewer like Richard III
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Dec 17, 2023 09:28
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Murderbot should be entirely picture in picture, with the main screen being endless repeats of "Rise and fall of sanctuary moon".
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Dec 17, 2023 09:55
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StrixNebulosa posted:re: Malazan chat, humble's bringing back the bundle for it: Isn't Covenant House (the beneficiary) that Catholic youth outreach program run by paedophiles? Serious question - I want to know who I'd be giving my money to.
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Dec 17, 2023 10:07
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Jedit posted:Isn't Covenant House (the beneficiary) that Catholic youth outreach program run by paedophiles? Serious question - I want to know who I'd be giving my money to. In the 90s according to wikipedia Click adjust donation on the right and you don't have to give them anything fez_machine fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Dec 17, 2023 |
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Dec 17, 2023 10:27
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pik_d posted:Thank you, these are somewhere on my long term reading list, just need to get the Esslemont novels now I think? Firstly, the core 10 are incredibly long. Secondly the ICE ones are average to poor, the one or two I read through actively made the original ones worst do to the retcon.
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Dec 17, 2023 10:30
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Have read Jo Walton's Thessaly trilogy starting with The Just City over the last few weeks and cannot recommend it highly enough for anyone that enjoys a bit of Greek mythology blended with likeable characters and a bit of musing on the meaning of life. The third book gets a bit ambitious and doesn't quite stick the landing, but that aside it's probably the best thing I've read about people trying to Figure Things Out this year. It's not entirely cosy reading, but it does a pretty good job of being uplifting and hopeful which I'm pretty sure I needed just now.
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Dec 17, 2023 10:46
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General Battuta posted:This is what we get for not judging books by their covers I judged books by their covers for years as a teen. I did my part!!!
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Dec 17, 2023 16:13
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Hyphen-ated posted:or instead of voiceover murderbot could constantly speak in asides to the viewer like Richard III Fleabag, but Murderbot?
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Dec 17, 2023 16:35
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StrixNebulosa posted:Real art is expensive and since people will buy books regardless of cover, there's no incentive to get a real cover I will also hunt down specific editions and covers of books I love, if they have an edition with a really good cover. Major Ryan posted:Have read Jo Walton's Thessaly trilogy ...
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Dec 17, 2023 16:49
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Slyphic posted:I will buy a book in spite of its cover. But I have entire shelves of books I've bought just because the cover looked cool, and the book inside turned out to be <random quality>. These sleek generic modern covers excite nothing within me. Oh I am in 10000% agreement here, I have bought books because of covers before -  see this? I saw this in a used bookstore, grabbed the book, went "wow I'm not very interested in that word salad on the back cover, but that art...." and I bought the first book, and spent the next few months desperately searching for #2 in the trilogy as I read through the first book. I wound up loving it and she's one of my favorite sci-fi/fantasy authors now. Same goes for romance novels, I love the beautiful cheesy painted portraits of fabio the rear end in a top hat, they're a thousand times better than random clipart. But speaking in broad market trends, from my personal experience in here and elsewhere, I see people buying ugly books because it's the latest by, idk, greydon saunders and they're here for the writing, not the art. Publishers want money and only money, so if they can get away with cheap covers, well...
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Dec 17, 2023 18:12
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I'm looking at an author I enjoy the works of, Michelle Sagara-West - she's been writing extremely long high fantasy doorstoppers forever, most of them in the same universe and she's been building to a big final arc and then DAW said "lol no" and dropped her So she swapped to patreon, and here I am some years later going "huh I wonder how that's going" and the answer is... quote:Midlist authors are always nervous about sales numbers. Always. Publishers require numbers in order to continue to publish a series - which makes sense because they’re there to make money. If the books don’t sell, the writer can’t continue with the publisher because the publisher is not making money.  She's got the first book of the finale out and is chugging away on the second one - I don't expect this will be a fast process, but it's thrilling to see an author I like thriving in a niche space. (And she's still writing a shitload of urban fantasy that I enjoy, so all of my needs are being met here!)
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Dec 17, 2023 18:14
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StrixNebulosa posted:Oh I am in 10000% agreement here, I have bought books because of covers before - Gerald Tarrant is one of my favorite characters in fantasy. His arc is so good.
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Dec 17, 2023 18:15
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The Forever War (#1) by Joe Haldeman - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PI184XG/
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Dec 17, 2023 18:20
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Speaking of which, is it okay to start with the Coldfire Trilogy? It's part of an extended universe, right?
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Dec 17, 2023 18:20
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Speaking of which, is it okay to start with the Coldfire Trilogy? It's part of an extended universe, right? It isn't, actually! Coldfire Trilogy is a standalone trilogy. Nearly a decade later she's put out a sequel I haven't read yet: https://www.fantasticfiction.com/f/c-s-friedman/nightborn.htm
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Dec 17, 2023 18:22
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Ah, I think I was getting it confused with Daughter of the Empire. I had a coworker who swore by it but said that you had to read the first Rfitwar Trilogy which wasn't as good.
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Dec 17, 2023 18:30
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Fangirl wants to talk about CS Friedman here we go Coldfire Trilogy - standalone trilogy, great fantasy. The premise is, sci-fi humans send a colony ship to this random planet and oops everything goes wrong. Humans settle down anyways, but lose all higher tech and it's not sci-fi anymore. The world they're on has a very reactive force on it that makes any human thought real - if you believe in the boogeyman, he's real now and he's going to eat you. Believe you can throw fireballs, and you can. This works for nightmares, too. It's more nuanced than that - but effectively society becomes a weird mixture of magic, religion and belief as civilization tries to flourish without everyone's nightmares killing them all. In this world, a mage-priest comes to a big city, catches up with an old flame, and whoops she's been kidnapped. He has to team up with Gerald Tarrant, local vampire dark lord, to go rescue her. Big weird adventures result! It has this delightful flavor of fantasy adventure but with a current of horror and sci-fi underneath, and does cool things with the setting. (It has a sequel that released in 2023, almost a decade after the original. No idea if it's good or not yet.) This Alien Shore - standalone sci-fi Humans colonize the universe! But wait, FTL has hosed up everyone and now we have human variants everywhere - some with powers, some without. Anyways, since that method of FTL doesn't work, a new one - controlled by a Pilot's Guild - springs up. Only specialized pilots can get through space without going insane/getting eaten. This cyberpunk in feel plot opens as a young lady's satellite home is destroyed, and she has to stow away on a starship to escape her pursuers. I really, REALLY love this one and it's due for a reread. It has all kinds of weird societies and tech going on, and you can tell the author wanted to do a lot with the world-building. (It has a sequel that released in 2020, almost a decade after the original. No idea if it's good or not yet.) In Conquest Born - standalone sci-fi Tells the strange, almost intimate tale of two sci-fi cultures that hate each other, and two people who rise to prominence and face off with each other. The Braxi are violent, military-focused dudes who are going to gently caress you up. The Azea are rational eugenicists who genetically engineer themselves to be the people who will keep the Braxi from taking over. There's psychic powers, weird stuff, and it ranges from hot to cold war, and it's just - a monumental volume that I haven't read in too long. I love. Love this book. Which is why I ran out and read its sequel - 'The Wilding' - and was disappointed. You'll notice this is a trend: CS Friedman writes sequels a decade or two after the original. In Conquest Born was 1986, the Wilding was 2004. I think Wilding is fine, but it's made me wary of her other sequels. The Madness Season - standalone sci-fi Aliens conquer Earth and force integration into their society, oh no! Our hero is... a vampire? But a weird vampire, with a fascinating take on how vampires keep or lose memories over the long centuries? And our other hero is a kind of shapeshifting alien? Oh yeah. I love this novel, it's another WEIRD bounce between weird aliens and cultures and harsh places. I love this book too! Her Other Stuff Haven't read, can't comment. Magister, Dreamwalker Chronicles. Might be good! Might not be. I don't know. e: for reference I read all of her stuff in my late teens / twenties, and going from her to CJ Cherryh influenced a lot of my taste in books.
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Dec 17, 2023 18:35
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StrixNebulosa posted:I'm looking at an author I enjoy the works of, Michelle Sagara-West - she's been writing extremely long high fantasy doorstoppers forever, most of them in the same universe and she's been building to a big final arc General Sagara spoiler, and Shards of Glass specifically : I am increasingly annoyed by the fact that the longer a Sagara series gets, the more everybody in the drat milieu is magical in some way. Robin was introduced a couple of books ago in the Elantra series. He was a street kid who turned out to love learning. Awesome! Great! In SoG we meet his best friend Robin, the viewpoint character. Her voice sounds like somebody on the spectrum, and she has odd obsessions. She turns out to be a non-human being, magickal to the 9th power. I was very frustrated, because I thought she was much more interesting as a weird kid.
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Dec 17, 2023 19:02
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StrixNebulosa posted:The world they're on has a very reactive force on it that makes any human thought real - if you believe in the boogeyman, he's real now and he's going to eat you. Believe you can throw fireballs, and you can. This works for nightmares, too. Zizek refers to this as an "id machine" when talking about Solaris. It's a pretty common SciFi concept; even Chrichton took a crack at it with "Sphere".
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Dec 17, 2023 20:38
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StrixNebulosa posted:Oh I am in 10000% agreement here, I have bought books because of covers before - IMO the cover of the first book in that trilogy is the best, although Michael Whelan's art is fantastic in general; he's done a lot of work for both Friedman and Cherryh.  StrixNebulosa posted:Her Other Stuff The other Friedman fangirl has logged in I haven't read Dreamwalker, but I have read Magister. The basic premise is that it's a fantasy setting where magic exists, but is rarely used, because using it drains the caster's life-force, hastening their death. Only the highly secretive order of Magisters has figured out how to work around that restriction. Our protagonist is the first non-Magister to attain that power, which puts her in conflict with them just in time for giant soul-eating deathbugs from beyond the magical wall of pain to the north to show up and ruin everyone's day. In some ways it feels like it's touching on the same themes as Coldfire but taking them in different directions.
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Dec 17, 2023 20:39
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Oh I love giant soul-eating deathbugs from beyond the magical wall of pain!
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Dec 17, 2023 21:01
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I know beyond a shadow of a doubt I read the Coldfire trilogy, those covers leapt off the library shelves into my greedy child hands. But I can't recollect a single thing about them, even after that summary. I guess I get to reread them again for the first time.
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Dec 17, 2023 21:53
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StrixNebulosa posted:Oh I love giant soul-eating deathbugs from beyond the magical wall of pain! A little long but still a strong thread title contender
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Dec 17, 2023 22:06
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