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Nelson Mandingo posted:Frieren is a great highlight because she also struggles with emotional empathy. This is a great point, and I think that demons are meant to kind of be the "bad" Frieren - they are both non-humans who obsess over magic and struggle with empathy or caring about / understanding humans. Frieren is the hero and thus she realizes the error of her ways and tries to learn how to care about humans more and connect with them. Demons are the villains, so they fail this "test" and use their lack of empathy to kill humans whenever it even marginally helps themselves. It's not hard to imagine an elf that also just doesn't give a poo poo about humans and is totally willing to just murder them if they get inconvenienced, especially if the typical elf's skill with magic is even a fraction that of Frieren's.
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Dec 18, 2023 07:30
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Nitrousoxide posted:Aren’t they just supposed to be Tolkien inspired elves that are immortal? I believe the idea is that they are actually mortal, they just have super-high lifespans. I only say that because Kraft talks about how he believes in the goddess because she'll praise him when he dies and goes to heaven but like, he doesn't seem to talk about it like he's going to Valhalla dying in glorious battle, he seems sure that he's just going to go there... eventually. Like he's not planning to die today or tomorrow but he knows death will come eventually.
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Dec 18, 2023 07:31
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It's not really said to my knowledge. They obviously live a long time but we don't know whether that's a few "thousand years" or "forever". Its implied that Freiren is probably close to or part of the most recent elf generation but we don't know enough about the world or its past to really do more than speculate.
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Dec 18, 2023 07:32
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TwoPair posted:I believe the idea is that they are actually mortal, they just have super-high lifespans. I only say that because Kraft talks about how he believes in the goddess because she'll praise him when he dies and goes to heaven but like, he doesn't seem to talk about it like he's going to Valhalla dying in glorious battle, he seems sure that he's just going to go there... eventually. Like he's not planning to die today or tomorrow but he knows death will come eventually. To be fair, even if they never die naturally, they still will die EVENTUALLY. Someone might live for hundreds of thousands of years then like, fall down the stairs and break their neck or something.
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Dec 18, 2023 07:38
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Given how many times Frieren has come close to death due to her own dumbassery, it seems like statistically speaking elves would all have died by accident before any of them even got to find out how far their lifespan goes before it cuts off.
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Dec 18, 2023 07:39
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Also before Kraft, Frieren had not seen another elf in 400 years. There's not many.
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Dec 18, 2023 07:43
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Is kraft also drawn to mimics like a moth to the flame though
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Dec 18, 2023 08:22
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I assume Kraft is over 4000-7000 years old. He himself points out that everything about him has been lost to time and his heroics and victories are completely forgotten at this point. He's not even myth at this point. And if you look at civilization now, things that happened over 2000 years ago can still come up and be somewhat relevant in today's world. But things that happened in Ancient Sumeria? Not really. Just people kept living in the cities that were built in that time like Baghdad.
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Dec 18, 2023 08:25
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sound on https://i.imgur.com/G2mbTfV.mp4
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Dec 18, 2023 12:43
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sharkmafia posted:I don't think its explicitly been said whether they're actually immortal or just have really, really long lives. I was assuming the latter, they dont seem as explicitly mystical or 'closer to god' as they are in tolkien. The goddess, as depicted in episode 11, looks elivish to me. https://twitter.com/Anime_Frieren/status/1725535372539736471
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Dec 18, 2023 14:06
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Nitrousoxide posted:The goddess, as depicted in episode 11, looks elivish to me. Sure, but does the fact that the goddess sort of looks like an elf mean that elves are the first children of eru illuvatar, gifted with eternity yet cursed to be bound to the circles of the world? Are they to come to envy men, who live short, unsatisfied lives but in death leave the world for a fate unknowable? Certainly there's some shared themes there, but all that poo poo seems a little too explicitly theological and destiny-ish for this world. Elves seem more like just another kind of person, with no ordained fate other than circumstance, and no purpose other than the one they choose for themselves. Of course, we don't really know much of anything about the theology of this setting so it's hard to say for sure. sharkmafia fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Dec 18, 2023 |
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Dec 18, 2023 14:32
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Of course, even if elves have a death rate comparable to young adult humans*, the typical elf is only going live ~200 years. The average would be much higher, but that's due to a long tail of especially lucky/cautious/resilient elves. *going by numbers from our world. Few traffic accidents but more wandering monsters, so call it a wash.
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Dec 18, 2023 15:48
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Nitrousoxide posted:The goddess, as depicted in episode 11, looks elivish to me. As depicted by an elf talking about the goddess that includes himself in the scenario. You don't know if he's going off actual accounts of how the goddess looks, or if it's just a Jesus or Santa situation where their appearance is just whatever is relatable to the person bringing them up.
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Dec 18, 2023 16:11
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Nelson Mandingo posted:I assume Kraft is over 4000-7000 years old. He himself points out that everything about him has been lost to time and his heroics and victories are completely forgotten at this point. He's not even myth at this point. Baghdad was founded in 762 AD. Were you thinking of Jericho, maybe?
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Dec 18, 2023 20:26
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paragon1 posted:Baghdad was founded in 762 AD. Were you thinking of Jericho, maybe? Baghdad was chosen as capital of the Abbasid Caliphate in 762 CE, but the area has been populated for millennia. That said, Beirut, Damascus, or Jerusalem would all be better examples of thriving, large cities today in the Middle East that have been continuously inhabited for at least four thousand years. There's honestly quite a few in the area. Delhi and Beijing, by contrast, are about a millennia younger.
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Dec 18, 2023 20:34
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pork never goes bad posted:Baghdad was chosen as capital of the Abbasid Caliphate in 762 CE, but the area has been populated for millennia. That said, Beirut, Damascus, or Jerusalem would all be better examples of thriving, large cities today in the Middle East that have been continuously inhabited for at least four thousand years. There's honestly quite a few in the area. Delhi and Beijing, by contrast, are about a millennia younger. Populated by rando farmers maybe, it wasn't the site of a permanent settlement of any size. It was very famously purpose built and planned out. Hard to do if you've got thousands of people and preexisting structures to deal with.
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Dec 18, 2023 20:45
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https://twitter.com/Neneko0814/status/1736647450100982075?s=19 It's real
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Dec 18, 2023 20:46
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paragon1 posted:Populated by rando farmers maybe, it wasn't the site of a permanent settlement of any size. It was very famously purpose built and planned out. Hard to do if you've got thousands of people and preexisting structures to deal with. Yes, you're absolutely right. Rereading it looks like I'm disagreeing with you but I meant to be adding on some additional context and info. Sorry for my unclarity!
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Dec 18, 2023 22:17
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https://twitter.com/yuri_kyanon/status/1736757888675377589?s=19 Now that's what I call the good poo poo
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Dec 19, 2023 02:10
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Centzon Totochtin posted:https://twitter.com/yuri_kyanon/status/1736757888675377589?s=19 This is a real, buyable shirt btw. https://x.com/FRIEREN_PR/status/1736702999802843185?s=20 Text says Dark!! Scary!!
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Dec 19, 2023 02:40
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CodfishCartographer posted:This is a real, buyable shirt btw. Tshirt scam sites are the mimics of the internet.
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Dec 19, 2023 02:52
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e: nm
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Dec 19, 2023 03:11
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FYI The oldest still inhabited city is Byblos in Lebanon which has been a proper city since 5000 years ago. The oldest city period that we know of is the ruins of Çatalhöyük in Turkey which was around 9000 years ago.
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Dec 19, 2023 04:49
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On the topic of how ancient is Frieren, I have an important Twitter post. https://twitter.com/khyleri/status/1736778347223630139
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Dec 19, 2023 04:53
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Son of a https://twitter.com/mira__tenma/status/1736783130990661700?t=zsBOEIMOBtS60U0riKjUng&s=19
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Dec 19, 2023 04:55
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HA!
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Dec 19, 2023 05:00
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Well, it is a story about loss, after all.
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Dec 19, 2023 05:13
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https://twitter.com/SEB_INKS/status/1736723362657792373
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Dec 19, 2023 05:42
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idk if im nuts or not but the waltz scene reminded me a ton of one of the most famous scenes in war and peace, the waltz between andrei and natasha, from the soviet film from a billion years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k30OO5_nEWY
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Dec 20, 2023 00:59
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watch that scene even if i'm off base, it's one of my favorite scenes in film
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Dec 20, 2023 01:01
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The series soundtrack is being released for download on the 22nd (Fri), but I don't see a listing for the price. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8W3vXlFbys
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Dec 20, 2023 10:51
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Oh, you need to have read the "Magic to know the price in cart" Grimoire
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Dec 20, 2023 15:12
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the magic in Frieren seems like a black box, which is fine. Since unlike other series which does try to explain the mechanic, this one doesn't so we just have to take things at face value. Like with all the grimoires that Frieren has read, you think with just learning how all these mandune spells work over the centuries, she could make up her own spells, but I guess she can't. Guess you can call her one of those people that just uses, but can't figure out how to engineer it, but they said she was at the front of purposing the demon killer spell, so she can do research stuff on it. Or I guess she's just fickle, and can't be bothered to do it herself unless its something really important like the demon killer spell.
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Dec 20, 2023 17:06
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Doodles posted:The series soundtrack is being released for download on the 22nd (Fri), but I don't see a listing for the price. It definitely feels like there's been way more than 13 songs in the anime even so far has it been said how many are going to be in that soundtrack release overall e; never mind, it says 12 in the description. likely all the stuff used in the early episodes sharkmafia fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Dec 20, 2023 |
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Dec 20, 2023 17:57
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Most spells, even the "turn grapes sour" types, require mages to spend many years doing monomaniacal research. Frieren just doesn't have that mindset. She's far more comfortable with adapting the spells she knows than synthesizing new ones.
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Dec 20, 2023 18:08
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GateOfD posted:the magic in Frieren seems like a black box, which is fine. Since unlike other series which does try to explain the mechanic, this one doesn't so we just have to take things at face value. So not only would you need to master the control of magic in the first place, you'd also need to research how it affects reality. "Turning grapes sour" might then involve figuring out how to use magic to ferment the grape's sugar to vinegar. Perhaps isolating the magic's effect to "sugar" then simulating the fermentation chemical change. If it were something like that, you'd need a lot more ancillary knowledge than just "magic" in order to make it happen (Frieren might know that the sugar in grapes make it sweet but she probably doesn't know you can ferment it into vinegar) but the final spell would be something anyone can use (black box).
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Dec 20, 2023 18:12
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It's explicit that some magic is understood and can be altered, and some magic is black-box stuff that they copied from other sources and have to use more or less exactly as they found it. Zoltraak was once a black box, and humanity (including Frieren) spent decades reverse-engineering it, so it was evidently a huge effort that they made a priority because humans just hate being zoltraak'd. Flight is still in the black box category, and evidently Frieren wasn't motivated to spend another hundred years in the office to figure out how to levitate a vehicle. Somebody else will figure it out before long! It seems like "basically everything priests do" is in the second category as well, only the goddess handed them a very large black box with a bunch of handy instructions.
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Dec 20, 2023 19:04
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Nobody needs to know the "turn grapes into sour grapes" spell but the guy who was obsessed with making it and the elf that only uses it to make her friend happy
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Dec 20, 2023 19:55
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Magic is like baking: Sometimes you break up a chocolate bar because you don't have cocoa powder and holy poo poo, you invented chocolate chip cookies.
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Dec 20, 2023 20:45
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Whatever you do, if you haven't already read the manga past today's episode do not watch the new trailer that dropped today! It's spoilery as all hell for you. As for the rest of us... We're gonna be eatin' GOOD this Winter. 
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Dec 22, 2023 18:31
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