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Bottom Liner posted:People are using AI in a lot more ways that just "spit out .jpg and print". A lot of artists have been caught using it for 90% of the work then just touching up the obvious flaws manually, or using it for backgrounds then drawing their subject on top, etc.
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Dec 18, 2023 20:20
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theironjef posted:Post your favorite insane complicated rolling method someone you played with used when they could have just used an array. Mine is "3D6 down the line, repeat six times, arrange each set of six stats as columns in a 6x6 grid, choose any one unbroken vertical, horizontal, or diagonal line." gently caress, I know somebody who had us do this
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Dec 18, 2023 20:21
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Halloween Jack posted:It should have been obvious that it isn't AI art because it's technically impossible for AI art to handle that many accessories without loving up. But I do want to know what's going on with that dwarf's left arm unless he doesn't have one and it actually is a magic floating shield. Drawing is hard, and often the way you think something would look from a particular angle is not the way it would actually look, because your brain has all these ideas of how things are "supposed to" look. Anyway the drawing looks good to me, and the artist even put the subject's facial features in the right places on their skull, which sounds simple but is surprisingly hard to get right in practice.
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Dec 18, 2023 20:27
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Chakan posted:In high school my GM had us do 4d6 re-roll the lowest, then drop lowest, assign as you please. He really wanted people to play whatever without penalty & none of us were going to min-max. I once rolled 4 sets before I got a single +2. He still brings it up sometimes, lol. I think theironjef found that 4d6 reroll lowest was the actual RAW, so that’s only a slight change. Weird ones I’ve seen: a) 3d6 down the line, twice, choose 3 from each set b) 3d6 down the line, then roll d6 and add that number of points divided as you like
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Dec 18, 2023 20:53
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theironjef posted:Post your favorite insane complicated rolling method someone you played with used when they could have just used an array. Mine is "3D6 down the line, repeat six times, arrange each set of six stats as columns in a 6x6 grid, choose any one unbroken vertical, horizontal, or diagonal line." Following the rules as written for Rolemaster Standard System/3e, in the games I ran. First you roll 10d10 and add that to 600. Assign that number of points to your 10 Stats, valued 20 to 100+. Be sure to assign at least 90 to each of your two or three Key Stats (based on your profession), but you probably want more than that. Remember that any Stat value costs an increasing amount of the points: 91 costs 91-93 points, while 95 costs 115-125. Be sure to focus on giving the five "development stats" good scores because they determine how many points you get to spend on skills at each level up. Now you've got your initial temporary stats. Now lets figure out your Potential Stats, which are their lifetime maximum values. Mostly this will be taking the tens value and adding enough d10s that your maximum could potentially be 100, with decreasing single die values as you exceed 90. Now for your Stat Growth rolls that can increase your decrease your Temporary Stats depending on your luck, which by default happen when your level increases, but can also happen as a benefit of various character background and development choices during character creation, including just buying them with the points you normally buy skills with. You roll two d10s and follow these instructions: 
That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Dec 18, 2023 |
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Dec 18, 2023 21:14
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Back when 3e was new, my players insisted that point buy was dull and rolling made more interesting characters, so I had to give them the gaming equivalent of hiding medicine in a liver treat for your dog. I had them roll 3d6 straight down the line, then add points wherever they want until the stats totalled 75. Point buy with extra steps 
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Dec 18, 2023 21:51
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The best random roll method is Dragon Union, where you roll 3d6 down the line...as many time as you want. If everyone else is satisfied and you're the last one rolling, you have 15 minutes.
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Dec 18, 2023 21:56
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Yeah stat rolls are exactly what I meant when I was talking about loose heaps of house rules with a PHB on top. Basically one or no person in a thousand actually plays D&D as written, especially in the older editions that were like half leftover cruft from a weirdo's table being vaguely codified without explanation or sense. Way less than claim to, anyway.
theironjef fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Dec 18, 2023 |
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Dec 18, 2023 22:11
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PHB for 5e has rolling as the way to make a character with the standard array being the "you can also pick this"
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Dec 18, 2023 22:24
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theironjef posted:Yeah stat rolls are exactly what I meant when I was talking about loose heaps of house rules with a PHB on top. Basically one or no person in a thousand actually plays D&D as written. Way less than claim to. If I remember right, Gary outright says in the AD&D books that 3d6 down the line sucks and makes lame characters nobody wants to play, so instead here's 17 different methods to choose from. 4d6 drop the lowest is the most sane of those presented options.
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Dec 18, 2023 22:29
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Am I losing my mind Looking at the 5e PHB now  Edit for clarification: not saying it's good but just saying it's not some house rule bolted on. Dexo fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Dec 18, 2023 |
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Dec 18, 2023 22:32
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Dexo posted:Am I losing my mind No you're not wrong, I am. lol E: doesn't explain my experience with people exclusively using the standard array or point buy. Maybe I'm just weird Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Dec 18, 2023 |
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Dec 18, 2023 22:33
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My favorite running theme is that figuratively no one actually has read the 5e PHB, I myself have fell into this trap with rules I could swear were real before. Neither the people who like it or the people who hate it. Everyone just runs or thinks about 5E in terms of pure (positive or negative) vibes baby Pvt.Scott posted:No you're not wrong, I am. lol Because it's the only remotely "fair" way to do it if you are at tables that value such outlandish things as players and thus encounters being fair and balanced.
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Dec 18, 2023 22:37
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Halloween Jack posted:The best random roll method is Dragon Union, where you roll 3d6 down the line...as many time as you want. If everyone else is satisfied and you're the last one rolling, you have 15 minutes. Later in the process the group decides who gets to be the Fighter (who is by default the party leader) by popular vote and you get an extra vote if you were the first person to keep your rolls.
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Dec 18, 2023 22:41
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I can detect Photoshops based on the pixels
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Dec 18, 2023 22:43
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What's strange to me is the modern idea that games in the 1e days played with strict rule adherence. I remember playing 1e back in the day, and no one I encountered considered the rules sacrosanct. People would grab something they liked out of BECMI or 2nd edition and apply it to a game they'd call AD&D 1st edition (if they even specified), the house rules dragon published multiples of a month would sometimes get used, and the idea of something being strictly for X edition wasn't really even there. I had a friend with his own long-running campaign who had his house rules (which included explanation of standard rules mixed with house rules, custom PC and NPC classes, 18/percent scores for most stats, non-weapon proficiency system, and more) bound and printed up at Kinko's. While not everyone went to the length of consolidating and printing their own rule book, people having their own house rules and skipping over huge sections of the standard rules (like the initiative system or the weapon vs armor type chart) was really common. I honestly don't think I ever encountered someone who even tried to play AD&D 1e strictly by the book. Dexo posted:Because it's the only remotely "fair" way to do it if you are at tables that value such outlandish things as players and thus encounters being fair and balanced. Also Adventurer's League uses point buy as standard, and a lot of people get 'how AL does it' mixed up with 'the standard 5e rules'. Pantaloon Pontiff fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Dec 18, 2023 |
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Dec 18, 2023 22:46
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Dexo posted:My favorite running theme is that figuratively no one actually has read the 5e PHB, I myself have fell into this trap with rules I could swear were real before. Best one is the simplest. There is no crit or autofail on 1s on skill rolls and there hasn't been in any numbered D&D edition.
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Dec 18, 2023 22:50
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Saguaro PI posted:Later in the process the group decides who gets to be the Fighter (who is by default the party leader) by popular vote and you get an extra vote if you were the first person to keep your rolls. Reminds me of some of the Warhammer RPGs where you are rewarded for taking random results. For example with Imperium Maladictium the most recent 40k RPG. Like here are the various steps. Characteristics 1.You randomly roll you characteristics in order and you gain 50 xp 2. If you decide rearrange the numbers you rolled in step 1 you gain 25 xp instead. 3. If you are still not happy roll again and rearrange but gain no xp. 4. Do a point buy and gain no xp. Origin 1. Roll d100 for your origin and gain 25 xp. 2. Pick one and gain no xp. Faction 1. Roll d100 for what faction you belong to and gain 75 xp. 2. Pick one and gain no xp. Role 1. Pick one and gain no xp. 2. Let your Patron (GM) pick one as best fits their needs and gain 50 xp.
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Dec 18, 2023 22:54
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MonsterEnvy posted:Reminds me of some of the Warhammer RPGs where you are rewarded for taking random results. I would take all that sweet free xp because I hardly ever have a character in mind when I sit down to play an rpg.
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Dec 18, 2023 23:01
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No AI could replicate the art of Rob Liefeld.
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Dec 18, 2023 23:03
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My weekly group random-rolls stats (4d6 drop lowest, though) and plays pretty close to RAW in 5e, usually with regular consults to make sure we've got some detail right. We tried to stay close to RAW in earlier editions too, though the high school group that introduced me through AD&D 2e were off in wild territory full of house rules and ignored bits. My distaste for how that tended to make the 2e games turn out (lots of god-moding, very little challenge that made the gameplay portion feel pointless) is probably a big reason I do try to stick to rules. Even if they're not great rules, I like to have a foundation to work from. We have played other stuff and enjoyed it thoroughly (Blades in the Dark is number 1 on our "we need to get back to this sometime" list), but we also just... like D&D. While being content to play by the rules. Also all of us like to GM, which is not directly related to the prior point but when taken with it apparently makes us a weird group of Gaming Unicorns.
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Dec 18, 2023 23:08
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In a game about fighting balanced tactical combats (3rd ed onward) ability scores are too important to leave up to chance. But IMO arrays and point buy aren't much better because the "choice" they present is false. You can invest in the stats your class needs to be successful, or you can underinvest in those stats and be worse at doing your job. You could make your guy worse for roleplay reasons (alzheimers wizard with low INT, slovenly cleric with bad WIS, etc) but no edition of d20 fantasy has "fail forward" mechanics that support that kind of play. You'll just have a worse experience when combat takes longer and is more frustrating. The actual solution is to stop fussing with ability scores and ability score modifiers entirely and just give each class what it needs to be successful for free. But at that point you've made a different game.
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Dec 18, 2023 23:33
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Dagon posted:4d4+2 9 times, arranged in a 3x3 grid of columns Str Dex and Con and rows Int Wis and Cha, select a score in the grid for each stat, only use each once. IIRC the old TG method was this except it was 4d5 drop lowest+3, there was an IRC bot that would roll it for you on command
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Dec 18, 2023 23:37
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I can detect Photoshops based on the pixels  not so sure about your bonafides bud
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Dec 19, 2023 00:16
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Bottom Liner posted:
I think they were joking.
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Dec 19, 2023 00:38
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“I can detect photoshops based on the pixels” is one of the oldest memes on the internet.
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Dec 19, 2023 00:57
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Pantaloon Pontiff posted:I honestly don't think I ever encountered someone who even tried to play AD&D 1e strictly by the book. A pal of mine did it back in like 1999 as an experiment. Went pretty well. If he had been an egotistical grognard he could have invented the OSR years earlier.
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Dec 19, 2023 00:59
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theironjef posted:Post your favorite insane complicated rolling method someone you played with used when they could have just used an array. Mine is "3D6 down the line, repeat six times, arrange each set of six stats as columns in a 6x6 grid, choose any one unbroken vertical, horizontal, or diagonal line." Back in the early days of 4e before Pathfinder had taken hold I saw an online players wanted pitch from a "hardcore GM true to the real game" running 3.5 and he wanted everyone to roll 1d20 down the line, no mulligans, *after* you've chosen your class. Not complicated but definitely insane.
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Dec 19, 2023 01:18
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DnD stats should be whatever you can say out loud with a straight face.
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Dec 19, 2023 01:20
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theironjef posted:Post your favorite insane complicated rolling method someone you played with used when they could have just used an array. Mine is "3D6 down the line, repeat six times, arrange each set of six stats as columns in a 6x6 grid, choose any one unbroken vertical, horizontal, or diagonal line." Suicide Kings: everyone rolls a d20 to find their place in a line. One person rolls 3d6. If you're at the front of the line, you can choose to either take this roll, or pass. If you take the roll, you get placed at the back of the line, and you assign the roll to any stat you want. If you pass, the next person down the line gets to choose if they want the roll. If you're at the back of the line, you have to take the roll. Repeat until everyone has a full set of stats.
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Dec 19, 2023 01:26
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My favourite system: Draw 12 cards from standard 54 card poker deck. Discard 2, but can't discard 2:s or Jokers. Assign cards to your 10 stats 2:s are D4 3-8 are D6 (average human) 9-11 are D8 12-13 are D10 Aces and Jokers* are D12 Suit of the Card Determinates # of dice Clubs are 1 Diamonds are 2 Hearts are 3 Spades are 4 *If you draw a joker, you draw an extra card to determinate its suit. So stats vary from 1d4 (abysmal) up to 4d12 (legendary). a simple way of doing the Deadlands Classic character
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Dec 19, 2023 01:54
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I don't care how many of these stat rolling posts are jokes and how many are serious, the hoops that people jump through in their desperation to avoid just using standard array/point buy is exactly why I just don't do rolling at my table
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Dec 19, 2023 02:01
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That Old Tree posted:Now you've got your initial temporary stats. Now lets figure out your Potential Stats, which are their lifetime maximum values. Mostly this will be taking the tens value and adding enough d10s that your maximum could potentially be 100, with decreasing single die values as you exceed 90. This is something that I think would be super cool in a tactical game like X-COM about managing semi-disposable dudes, where the uncertainty of whether the person you're hiring/training will be able to keep up in the end game is interesting, but actually caring about it in even a long-running tabletop campaign seems like it'd be a lot of rules for accomplishing very little.
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Dec 19, 2023 02:01
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LatwPIAT posted:This is something that I think would be super cool in a tactical game like X-COM about managing semi-disposable dudes, where the uncertainty of whether the person you're hiring/training will be able to keep up in the end game is interesting, but actually caring about it in even a long-running tabletop campaign seems like it'd be a lot of rules for accomplishing very little. Considering how quickly you hit your cap and then how unlikely it is you'll lose any significant value, and even after a significant loss how quickly you'll get right back to your max, it was definitely an enormous waste of time.
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Dec 19, 2023 02:35
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Notably, one of the key things about a game like XCOM is that it isn't one player to a randomly disposable dude, you are a single person in charge of the entire XCOM army. There's a substantial difference in personal investment when all the guys are essentially acting as one big character for you to play as, versus an actual single character which is your sole focal point.
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Dec 19, 2023 03:03
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That Old Tree posted:Following the rules as written for Rolemaster Standard System/3e, in the games I ran. Rolemaster chargen takes longer than some campaigns I've run. 
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Dec 19, 2023 03:18
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That’s why I figured it’d work better in an X-COM-alike: discovering that one of your little mans can go all the way to 98 is cool, and the one who can only go to 65 is a bit disappointing but probably not game ending. Having only one character and then getting a kinda bad maximum, meanwhile, would probably not feel great.
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Dec 19, 2023 03:24
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LatwPIAT posted:That’s why I figured it’d work better in an X-COM-alike: discovering that one of your little mans can go all the way to 98 is cool, and the one who can only go to 65 is a bit disappointing but probably not game ending. Having only one character and then getting a kinda bad maximum, meanwhile, would probably not feel great. Hmmm. First, to complain a little more about my former beloved Rolemaster, since Potential Stats are generated on a progressive scale, the statistical likelihood of getting a really lovely Potential is virtually zero, and that minuscule possibility only exists for stats that you super dump on at character creation. As you go up the scale for temp stats at character creation, you're rolling fewer dice so you are statistically more likely to get a lovely roll, but also the floor for your potential stat rises. As to an X-COM meat grinder with troop growth (which I would be surprised if it hasn't been done previously somewhere), I think the potential max attribute doesn't really serve much purpose. Holding on to your more experienced troops, and sending the low-numbers greenies into no-man's land, is served perfectly just by stat growth on its own. If you want the occasional lucky cadet to remain lovely into an inexplicable longer career, I think the simple fact of just rolling lovely might fulfill that promise well enough, or you could maybe even implement some bonus for not taking stat growth. It would likely depend a lot on the system's particulars. Very tangentially, this puts me in mind of some ancient version of Usagi Yojimbo RPG, I think it was a proto-Ironclaw and written by Greg Stolze? Anyway, on top of the simple but very brutal combat system, it had an interesting character advancement system where you ticked off boxes next to skills as you used them, under certain circumstances, and hitting three or five ticks or something along those lines, you'd gain a point in the stat. It was somewhat similar to how Forged in the Dark advancement works in part, but much more granular and, if I recall correctly from 20ish years ago, not nearly as permissive as "fail, get +1xp" or whatever.
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Dec 19, 2023 04:26
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Lambo Trillrissian posted:everyone to roll 1d20 down the line, no mulligans, *after* you've chosen your class. I'm going to try that for the next one-shot I run. My biggest concern is that people already vastly overplay a mild negative modifier, so I shudder to think how someone will believe to be appropriate for an intelligence of two. Maybe I'd just allow the PC to be whatever in the monster manual seems closest to the stats they get. Let's see what kind of shenanigans a dog bard, awakened tree cleric, mimic sorcerer and bulette theif can get up to!
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Dec 19, 2023 16:12
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Piell posted:IIRC the old TG method was this except it was 4d5 drop lowest+3, there was an IRC bot that would roll it for you on command Yeah, that was it - I always forget the fake dice part.
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Dec 19, 2023 16:25
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