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Regarde Aduck posted:and then what? Nothing, the reactions and the meltdowns would be funny.
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Dec 19, 2023 07:23
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fanfic insert posted:Nothing, the reactions and the meltdowns would be funny. You can probably find some video content along the lines of "americans react to overseas mcdonalds/kfc" and extrapolate.
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Dec 19, 2023 07:31
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dead gay comedy forums posted:a quarter of the imperial armed forces have dealt with hunger and that comes from RAND new york times opinion piece about the benefits of mandatory fasting
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Dec 19, 2023 07:46
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zetamind2000 posted:new york times opinion piece about the benefits of mandatory fasting The importance of buying leather boots now so you have something to boil with your soup later.
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Dec 19, 2023 08:15
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Ardennes posted:I am talking about the scene itself, other works doing their own thing may have a different message. If you are showing your own forces as brutal yet victorious, you aren’t being anti-war. i think we are talking past each other, i was responding to you saying the scene would be forgotten
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Dec 19, 2023 09:02
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BillsPhoenix posted:Ukraine war is limited. Proof of concept, not actually related. Whenever you read about Taiwan in the Western press, it's portrayed as this defiant, isolated, plucky little island, holding off the Chinese invaders through bravery and it's modern military force. You'd never know that 400,000 Taiwanese live in mainland China and that Taiwan itself was getting nearly 3 million mainland tourists a year before Covid screwed up China's international travel.
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Dec 19, 2023 09:05
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fanfic insert posted:Nothing, the reactions and the meltdowns would be funny. i don't think we'll ever see a reckoning like that edit: someone is mad AND horny
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Dec 19, 2023 09:11
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Megamissen posted:i think we are talking past each other, i was responding to you saying the scene would be forgotten It wouldn't have had the cultural impact without the (relative) invincibility of the forces on display. People constantly re-watch it because they want to see the US has angels of death coming in and "eradicating" the bad guys, the farther you move from that, the less people are going to care. Later scenes in other films may play off of it but there is a reason why people remember the original the most..
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Dec 19, 2023 09:24
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That whole scene is supposed to be a parody in the movie. All that bombastic poo poo happens because some dumbfuck colonel wanted to go surfing on a beach. That's also where the "Charlie don't surf" line comes from. All the anti war parts from that movie have been stripped out and completely forgotten in popular culture. But even the stupid one liner that makes no sense outside of the context still lingers because it gets repeat in other pro war media like call of duty video games.
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Dec 19, 2023 10:01
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The best Vietnam war movie was Hamburger Hill. Fite me IRL.
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Dec 19, 2023 10:11
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DancingShade posted:The best Vietnam war movie was Hamburger Hill. Fite me IRL. Hamburger Hill posting
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Dec 19, 2023 10:12
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Huh,quote:The Battle of Hamburger Hill (13–20 May 1969) was a battle of the Vietnam War that was fought by US Army and Army of the Republic of Vietnam (ARVN) forces against People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) forces during Operation Apache Snow. Though the heavily-fortified Hill 937, a ridge of the mountain Dong Ap Bia in central Vietnam near its western border with Laos, had little strategic value, US command ordered its capture by a frontal assault, only to abandon it soon thereafter. The action caused a controversy among both the US armed services and the public back home. Should have sent those guys to train Ukrainians on proper NATO doctrine of taking a defensive line with simple human wave tactics.
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Dec 19, 2023 10:19
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Lostconfused posted:Huh, I fail to see where this brings shareholder value to either Raytheon or Lockheed Martin. How about some nice guided shells that cost 10 million each with a 50% failure rate or perhaps a wunderjet defeated by inclement weather with a sticker price approaching that of a whole frigate?
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Dec 19, 2023 10:25
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Lostconfused posted:That whole scene is supposed to be a parody in the movie. It doesn't mean there isn't' a subtext to it though, which is the primary issue. Also, I would say more surreal amplification (since it was a pretty unique sequence at the time, Kilgore is a meathead but also paradoxical).
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Dec 19, 2023 10:32
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DancingShade posted:The best Vietnam war movie was Hamburger Hill. Fite me IRL. Hamburger Hill tells us it was wrong to oppose the war because it made troops sad.
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Dec 19, 2023 10:39
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Fish of hemp posted:Hamburger Hill tells us it was wrong to oppose the war because it made troops sad. Listen soldier the finest thing you can do in life is die for this pile of mud, now get up there.
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Dec 19, 2023 10:40
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Ardennes posted:American war films are never anti-war because the US is invincible in them even if what they are doing is outright evil. Think if half the choppers got shot down during the Ride of the Valkyrie’s scene, what would people think? It would have probably been mostly forgotten about. I mean  But anyway, if an anti war film is trying to convey the message that "war" (or at least, this war) was not just immoral or hellish due to the massive loss of life but also completely pointless in the end, is that really the best way to get it across? "This war was nonsensense because our military apparatus is trash and the enemy wiped the floor with us" doesn't quite evoke the same understanding of how a conflict was inherently unnecessary as "we were victorious, but gained nothing worthwhile".
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Dec 19, 2023 10:41
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Fish of hemp posted:Hamburger Hill tells us it was wrong to oppose the war because it made troops sad. I found my thrill on Hamburger Hill
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Dec 19, 2023 10:51
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Zero Dark Loxley
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Dec 19, 2023 10:57
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Sancho Banana posted:evoke the same understanding of how a conflict was inherently unnecessary as "we were victorious, but gained nothing worthwhile". kissinger_on_russia_and_eurasia.txt
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Dec 19, 2023 11:02
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Sancho Banana posted:I mean I don't know why people are surprised about the criticism. quote:But anyway, if an anti war film is trying to convey the message that "war" (or at least, this war) was not just immoral or hellish due to the massive loss of life but also completely pointless in the end, is that really the best way to get it across? "This war was nonsensense because our military apparatus is trash and the enemy wiped the floor with us" doesn't quite evoke the same understanding of how a conflict was inherently unnecessary as "we were victorious, but gained nothing worthwhile". Because victory in itself is "worthwhile" you instilled fear and terrorized those who opposed you. If it wasn't part of a ultimate victory, fine, but for that moment you were in control. But even if you don't have that...that is when you really start to wonder what this was all for. A film that glorifies combat implicitly isn't providing an anti-war message.
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Dec 19, 2023 11:57
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Fish of hemp posted:Hamburger Hill tells us it was wrong to oppose the war because it made troops sad. even worse than the common Vietnam movie trope that Vietnam was bad because it made the colonial troops sad  Which is part of an older trope that the true victim of colonialism is the poor imperial troop who must do bad things to support it (since the locals aren’t real people). Though I don’t know that movie at all. I remember my dad watching Hamburger Hill endlessly but can’t recall a frame of it. FuzzySlippers has issued a correction as of 13:28 on Dec 19, 2023 |
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Dec 19, 2023 13:25
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I remember it not being great but spending a noteworthy amount of time with the black GI's, which you don't really see in the other classic Vietnam films
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Dec 19, 2023 13:44
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Lostconfused posted:Huh, I'll look for the book, but US company and platoon level officers in Vietnam would form line and order a frontal assault any time they were shot at, even if it was a few cracks of scattered rifle fire. It was actually a fairly big problem. DancingShade posted:Listen soldier the finest thing you can do in life is die for this, now get up there. Ardennes posted:Because victory in itself is "worthwhile" 
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Dec 19, 2023 15:03
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I found my thrill On Hamburger Hill On Hamburger Hill When I found you The moon stood still On Hamburger Hill And lingered until My dream came true The wind in the willow played Love's sweet melody But all of those vows you made Were never to be Though we're apart You're part of me still For I just got killed On Hamburger Hill
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Dec 19, 2023 16:21
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I've always found it interesting that people talk a lot about pro war vs anti war messages in media but the context of the struggle is far more of an academic than popular subject about war movies. Like if a movie is empathizing and humanizing American occupation troops that factually committed a shitload of horrific crimes on a daily basis against the Vietnamese - and even if it includes some depictions of individual atrocities but that does not include the context that the entire rationale for their presence was a imperial mission of oppression and destruction of colonized people, who gives a poo poo if it's "pro" or "anti" war or if it portrays combat as glorious or pointless, or the degree to which it emphasizes the tactical victories vs the human cost to the Americans? If someone made a movie about the Eastern front in WW2 that empathized the Wehrmacht, would you give a poo poo about what their intended messages were beyond that choice they made? Conversely, if someone made a movie glorifying the people of Vietnam struggling (and suffering) to throw off the yoke of colonial occupation, and ultimately succeeding, though at great cost, is the fact that that's a "pro war" message a problem? The whole framing smells.
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Dec 19, 2023 19:53
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Those aren't voluntary struggles were people really have a choice; there is a reason why the overseas wars usually in American media have to be looked at with a different eye. The horror of war is coming no matter what in those cases, but the real crime though would be ignoring the broader horror that existed or an attempt to parlay a war of existence or liberation into broader nationalist goals. That said, the version of All Quiet on the Western Front that came out supposedly was a mess than fumbled much of its message.
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Dec 19, 2023 20:03
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The Oldest Man posted:After defeating the British at the Battle of Chippawa, General Brown pushed his army north and met the British near Niagara Falls on a road called Lundy’s Lane. Fought around a small hill of no strategic importance, the battle lasted until after midnight and was as fierce as any on the entire Canadian frontier during the war, drowning out even the sound of the Falls nearby.
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Dec 19, 2023 20:07
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As an aside on war movies, I really really wish I wasn't exposed to them as a preteen. Fascist propaganda is designed specifically to appeal to young boys to recruit them for gangs, parties, and armies, and boy did it work for a time, especially since this was post 9/11 and it was cool to be fascist  Mommas don't let your boys watch Black Hawk Down or Band of Brothers.
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Dec 19, 2023 20:19
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Ardennes posted:Those aren't voluntary struggles were people really have a choice; there is a reason why the overseas wars usually in American media have to be looked at with a different eye. The horror of war is coming no matter what in those cases, but the real crime though would be ignoring the broader horror that existed or an attempt to parlay a war of existence or liberation into broader nationalist goals. It was a terrible movie in many ways but the almost total lack of artillery was criminal
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Dec 19, 2023 20:22
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Slavvy posted:the almost total lack of artillery was criminal But enough about Paths of Glory 
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Dec 19, 2023 20:27
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Slavvy posted:It was a terrible movie in many ways but the almost total lack of artillery was criminal a movie about famous artillery guy napoleon without artillery lol
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Dec 19, 2023 21:04
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skooma512 posted:As an aside on war movies, I really really wish I wasn't exposed to them as a preteen. Fascist propaganda is designed specifically to appeal to young boys to recruit them for gangs, parties, and armies, and boy did it work for a time, especially since this was post 9/11 and it was cool to be fascist This is pretty much why I joined the royal air force
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Dec 19, 2023 21:12
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Megamissen posted:a movie about famous artillery guy napoleon without artillery lol Special Forces brain has so throughly lodged itself into popular imagination, and it doesn't help that every game that includes artillery inevitably creates a lot of complaints about how overpowering it is.
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Dec 19, 2023 21:21
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Danann posted:Special Forces brain has so throughly lodged itself into popular imagination, and it doesn't help that every game that includes artillery inevitably creates a lot of complaints about how overpowering it is. No weapon in any game is allowed to be mightier than the tricked out assault rifle. Including artillery, land mines and anything with a direct fire cannon. Also soldiers can eat more bullets than a James Cameron terminator.
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Dec 19, 2023 22:13
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Cookie Cutter posted:This is pretty much why I joined the royal air force Dambusters or Battle of Britain?
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Dec 19, 2023 22:15
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FuzzySlippers posted:I think you are overestimating contemporary American ability. America can say they want to build bases there and maybe sign some treaties with an eye towards doing so, but that's a far distance from actually building and operating them and then using them to threaten China. This is not the America that finally succeeded at technowar in Kuwait, invaded Iraq, or even orchestrated the destruction of Libya. The empire is weaker and more schizophrenic than ever. Just having any consistency in policy is extremely difficult much less combining policy with action. I think most posters here know this, but I'm not predicting a future US military build up in that area. It's already started. Here's one of many - publicly available examples. https://www.eurasiantimes.com/game-on-with-china-us-to-restore-tinian-airfield-once-home/?amp Another poster already brought up the publicly available Chinese coast guard story, highlighting that China isn't just passive about the situation. I'm not saying the US will contain China. I am saying they are actively building permanent military installations in the south China Sea and nearby. I'm predicting this leads to a limited hot war with China, that Americans will struggle with very likely losing, and a lack of escalation. It's not something Americans are used to.
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Dec 19, 2023 23:09
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Frosted Flake posted:Dambusters or Battle of Britain? Of those two, Battle of Britain. That one air battle that takes place with no music, but halfway through the score kicks in right when one of the downed German planes hits the water? loving sublime. But the big one for me growing up was this: "You can't kill a squadron." Cookie Cutter has issued a correction as of 23:17 on Dec 19, 2023 |
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Dec 19, 2023 23:14
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US F-35 Loses ‘Stealth Panel’ Flying Over The Pacific; Second Incident Reported From Kadena Air Base On the morning of December 18, an F-35A Lightning II belonging to the US Air Force’s 356th Fighter Squadron touched down at the Japanese Kadena Air Base. In an unusual incident, it was discovered that a vital component of the stealth aircraft was missing when it landed. After the incident came to light, a spokesperson of the Air Force said that the advanced stealth fighter that returned to its Okinawa base without a panel might have lost the part over the Pacific Ocean. https://www.eurasiantimes.com/us-f-35-loses-stealth-panel-flying-over-the-pacific-second/ Literally falling apart.
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Dec 19, 2023 23:15
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The Chinese used dragons to steal the panel in flight so they could copy it, their only means of acquiring new technology.
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Dec 19, 2023 23:22
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