|
trump knows he's lying. but he can justify the lie therefore it's ok. it's as simple as that. in trump's case the bar for justification of the lie is so so low i grew up with people like trump. i recognize the words, the facial expressions, the mannerisms. all of it says "you know i'm lying but you can't prove it and i can talk in circles until you get frustrated and leave or i can dismiss you as emotional" it's not even being a "bully" per se, it's being so gormless and frustrating that it becomes obvious very quickly that the argument is not worth it. you get the same effect by just full throat screaming every time the other person started talking. being a bully requires some sort and amount of bravery to expose yourself to possible ridicule. this is just pretending to be stupid to win an argument
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 10:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 02:56 |
|
|
I've often wondered what would be the method that would be effective at piercing Trump's reality and his followers. The thing that would reveal the emperor has no clothes, if it even exists. Attacking his business and wealth seems to work somewhat, but I daydream about someone pantsing him during a televised debate and taunting him as he struggles to pull them up like a moribund turtle
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 13:33
|
|
|
DarkHorse posted:I've often wondered what would be the method that would be effective at piercing Trump's reality and his followers. The thing that would reveal the emperor has no clothes, if it even exists. My daydream is that he shits himself on stage and his diaper bursts and it just all floods down. More practically though if that happened his followers would just start performatively making GBS threads themselves to own the libs. Maybe if he announced support for slavery reparations.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 13:40
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:
Come on now we were talking about things that were at least theoretically possible
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 13:44
|
|
|
Him stroking out on television would be pretty bad.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 13:47
|
|
|
DarkHorse posted:Come on now we were talking about things that were at least theoretically possible If he thought he could grift off of reparations it's totally possible
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 13:48
|
|
|
Jesus III posted:Him stroking out on television would be pretty bad. Do you mean "bad" in like the Michael Jackson sense here or Because the only downside I can think of to that would be that I don't keep champagne chilled
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 13:54
|
|
|
Jesus III posted:Him stroking out on television would be pretty bad. I think you mean being killed by the DEEP STATE 
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 15:04
|
|
|
Jesus III posted:Him stroking out on television would be pretty bad. Totally read this as "him stroking one out" and I was like  that's possible I guess
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 15:13
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:If you're someone who already has power and privilege, this self-rationalization, this ability to sincerely believe false things, is a powerful driving force and defensive mechanism, especially if you're an idiot or rear end in a top hat- it makes you as psychologically immune to consequences for your abuse as you are physically immunized by the undue deference that your privilege, or the tolerance of civil society, will grant. It's an epistemology borne of solipsism, the beating heart of the process of bad faith: the ability to make the world bend around your views and, by the extension of your thoughts, render yourself immune to doubt or correction. To make the easy reference, some people will see as many lights as are convenient for them. O'Brien in 1984 posted:You believe that reality is something objective, external, existing in its own right. You also believe that the nature of reality is self-evident. When you delude yourself into thinking that you see something, you assume that everyone else sees the same thing as you. But I tell you, Winston, that reality is not external. Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else. Not in the individual mind, which can make mistakes, and in any case soon perishes: only in the mind of the Party, which is collective and immortal. Whatever the Party holds to be the truth, is truth. It is impossible to see reality except by looking through the eyes of the Party. That is the fact that you have got to relearn, Winston. It needs an act of self- destruction, an effort of the will. You must humble yourself before you can become sane.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 15:32
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:My daydream is that he shits himself on stage and his diaper bursts and it just all floods down. I mean, we already saw this happen when he said he likes his steaks well-done, and then his followers committed heinous crimes against meat that didn't deserve it. Many good steaks were ruined by slavish loyalty to a man that has no tastebuds.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 16:24
|
|
|
DarkHorse posted:I've often wondered what would be the method that would be effective at piercing Trump's reality and his followers. The thing that would reveal the emperor has no clothes, if it even exists. His followers: psychological deprogramming The latter is pretty time-consuming. They've attached their sense of morality and self-worth to the man so you basically follow the same steps as getting someone out of a cult.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 18:10
|
|
|
The Islamic Shock posted:Trump: loving nothing Honest question for goons with education in this area : if the cult leader dies, does some meaningful set of followers begin getting deprogrammed? If the cult leader gets deplatformed - say, because they're in jail - do cultists in any meaningful numbers begin to leaveor rejoin the broader society?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 18:41
|
|
|
I've thought about this quite a bit, and I think the one thing that could make his followers pause is to drop decorum and openly ridicule him. Trump is a whiny baby who is easily needled, and I think if a political opponent just started speaking very plainly, saying things like "Can you believe this guy? All he ever does is whine! 'Wah wah, my tacky golf motel is worth less than a car'! Hey, did you store all of those stolen documents in the bathroom because that's where you spend most of your time? Everyone calls him 'Diaper Don', lots of people are saying it! The only reason he wants to be president again is to steal your tax dollars for his golf trips and steal more documents to sell to oil barons."
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 18:49
|
|
|
Doesn't it usually boil down to they get behind a hand-picked successor or the civil war over who is the legitimate successor of the movement? While they've abjectly failed, those taking part in the GOP farce of a primary seem like the kind of screwballs who would try and lead the movement anew. Gaetz, MTG and Kari Lake come to mind as those who might seek to take the crown. Chumps like Stefanik won't have a hope in hell, though. Duck_King posted:I've thought about this quite a bit, and I think the one thing that could make his followers pause is to drop decorum and openly ridicule him. Trump is a whiny baby who is easily needled, and I think if a political opponent just started speaking very plainly, saying things like "Can you believe this guy? All he ever does is whine! 'Wah wah, my tacky golf motel is worth less than a car'! Hey, did you store all of those stolen documents in the bathroom because that's where you spend most of your time? Everyone calls him 'Diaper Don', lots of people are saying it! The only reason he wants to be president again is to steal your tax dollars for his golf trips and steal more documents to sell to oil barons." I recall a goon in C-SPAM saying that the only way to stop his co-worker banging on about how great Trump was every day during the presidency was to bring him up before that worker did and talk about how whatever thing he'd done the day before was "hilarious" and "his most retarded poo poo he's done/said yet" and the co-worker ended up not bringing Trump up anymore for fear his MAGA Jesus would get made fun of.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 18:51
|
|
|
Ynglaur posted:Honest question for goons with education in this area : if the cult leader dies, does some meaningful set of followers begin getting deprogrammed? If the cult leader gets deplatformed - say, because they're in jail - do cultists in any meaningful numbers begin to leaveor rejoin the broader society? Edit: also like above, yes, if the party just picks a guy in the event Trump dies, that's it. I mean poo poo the Dems already did that by having everyone else drop out and transform into centrist Voltron to prop up Not Bernie The Islamic Shock fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Dec 19, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 18:51
|
|
Ynglaur posted:Honest question for goons with education in this area : if the cult leader dies, does some meaningful set of followers begin getting deprogrammed? If the cult leader gets deplatformed - say, because they're in jail - do cultists in any meaningful numbers begin to leaveor rejoin the broader society? My understanding is this varies a lot depending on, in part, how viable it is for someone else to take the leader's place, and how much of a structure or financial incentive there is for the cult to persist.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 18:51
|
|
|
DarkHorse posted:I've often wondered what would be the method that would be effective at piercing Trump's reality and his followers. The thing that would reveal the emperor has no clothes, if it even exists. they know he's a liar, they know he's a cheat and a thief. they know all these things. but they FEEL better about him. that's the disconnect: they can't justify their feelings with facts but they spent so long laughing at "feelings" that they can't just say "the fat white guy who hates minorities makes me feel better" so they have to couch their feelings in "facts" it's why perfume commercials are so surreal, they're advertising a smell in a medium without the ability to smell. chuds are putting forth a feelings based reality into a factual environment so of course they come across as weird and surreal people. they interpret trump's words through their own filter and always come out with "what trump was REALLY saying was "(insert pet issue that trump 100% agrees with them about)" you can't "pierce their reality" because they don't care about "reality", they care about their feelings, they're just never going to express it that way. if they were capable of anything else they wouldn't be trumpers
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 19:09
|
|
|
InsertPotPun posted:that's the thing though: there's nothing to pierce. yeah. in short. trumps a tablua rasa for chuds nostalgia for the old days either the 80s or the 00s/early 10s culture wise and are mad that society/culture is moving away from them on those fronts.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 19:13
|
|
|
He'd have to do something that inherently ruins the feelings. I still think Ted Cruz could have won the republican debate if he'd just responded to trumps insults by walking across the stage and punching him in the throat.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 19:18
|
|
|
Ynglaur posted:Honest question for goons with education in this area : if the cult leader dies, does some meaningful set of followers begin getting deprogrammed? If the cult leader gets deplatformed - say, because they're in jail - do cultists in any meaningful numbers begin to leaveor rejoin the broader society? One factor that will throw a wrench into predicting how likely a collapse of MAGA-ism is that this form of cult is heavily influenced by the Internet, social media and manufactured safe spaces. We have examples of unsuccessful cults that died out when the leaders were removed (Heaven's Gate, People's Temple, Aum Shinrikyo), but then you also have Scientology which I would call a success even after its main figurehead died. Part of the issue now is that even without Trump you can reinforce cult behavior through social media behavior or engineer a false reinforcement through botting and AI tools. I can't think of an example of cults that have got off the ground and crashed and burned in recent years that used these methodologies. In addition, pushing MAGA-ism has a tangible benefit to outside state actors that would like to see American divisions. So even if Trump were to drop dead I can see foreign state actors creating Q-Anon style drops using deep fakes with Trump to continue tricking Americans, so that's another reinforcement factor. Only way I could think of stopping these reinforcements is removal of anonymity to get rid of botting, identify foreign actors and AI subterfuge. That would be trading all of our current problems with new, more exciting and dystopian problems. Hieronymous Alloy posted:He'd have to do something that inherently ruins the feelings. I kept donating to Chris Christie because I was hoping for this to precisely happen during a debate, but Trump wisely chose not to show up.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 19:19
|
|
|
Ynglaur posted:Honest question for goons with education in this area : if the cult leader dies, does some meaningful set of followers begin getting deprogrammed? If the cult leader gets deplatformed - say, because they're in jail - do cultists in any meaningful numbers begin to leaveor rejoin the broader society? Yes too an extent. Most religious/political cults that are built around a charismatic leader who has been sucessfully exposed or tarnished do experience declines in membership, often drastically so. However, there is always a residual rump of true beleivers who stick around. Often this group is split between several factions, and are stuck in a period of slow decline.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 19:26
|
|
|
biden's "would you shut up, man" was simple and effective. but the next person to call the other a "motherfucker" on tv is going to be the next president
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 19:40
|
|
|
Sure is great to live in a country where about one-tenth of the voting population votes for politicians based on what bills the candidate they're voting for are likely to support aka their actual jobs
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 20:02
|
|
|
The Islamic Shock posted:Sure is great to live in a country where about one-tenth of the voting population votes for politicians based on what bills the candidate they're voting for are likely to support aka their actual jobs I wish i could, but for me at least its devolved to voting for the insane party or the not insane party. Its like that video of the guy trying to choose who's going to do his heart surgery. A surgeon or bozo the clown.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 20:04
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:He'd have to do something that inherently ruins the feelings. thats genuinly my opinion with JEB!. if JEB had punched trump and trump had either fallen on his rear end or flinched, trump would be done. InsertPotPun posted:biden's "would you shut up, man" was simple and effective. but the next person to call the other a "motherfucker" on tv is going to be the next president i think biden might come close this election. trumps just gonna run on "RIGGED ELECTION AND JANUARY 6th HOAX" and other insane poo poo and it will be on the one debate they probably do have. yeah i think there is one debate at least.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 20:05
|
|
|
Cimber posted:I wish i could, but for me at least its devolved to voting for the insane party or the not insane party. Its like that video of the guy trying to choose who's going to do his heart surgery. A surgeon or bozo the clown. Bozo hasn't killed anyone on the operating table yet but the surgeon might have  Dapper_Swindler posted:thats genuinly my opinion with JEB!. if JEB had punched trump and trump had either fallen on his rear end or flinched, trump would be done. Edit: Anyone else read Pierce Brown's Red Rising? This reminds me of the Institute and the attitudes around the ruling class in that book. Nervous fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Dec 19, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 20:17
|
|
|
Donkringel posted:
This is certainly a way to frame what happened
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 20:35
|
|
|
Aztec Galactus posted:This is certainly a way to frame what happened also having listened to LPOTL and read books about it. Applewhite wasnt really the head, more the acting one. it was his galpal Bonnie Nettles, she led the whole thing for decades and when she died of cancer, the group and him kinda slowly spiraled the drain until Comet Hale–Bopp arrived to isakied themselve to star trek land or whatever. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Dec 19, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 20:43
|
|
|
Aztec Galactus posted:This is certainly a way to frame what happened I mean the couple who stayed behind and operated their website kept the cult going, so perhaps I should have slotted it with Scientology as a success.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 21:12
|
|
|
I always wonder who is still paying heavens gate domain registration and hosting fees.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 21:36
|
|
|
cr0y posted:I always wonder who is still paying heavens gate domain registration and hosting fees. CIA?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 21:38
|
|
|
Whatever happened with the second Carroll libel lawsuit against Trump? Seeing that Guiliani's second libel case was just initiated, it reminded me of Trump's rape case. I thought I'd check in, and things aren't going so well. Already. https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-scrambles-to-block-expert-witness-ashlee-humphreys-in-his-new-e-jean-carroll-case
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 21:40
|
|
|
Staluigi posted:You know, I don't actually believe this The simplest way to say it is that he does not have a concept of things being true/false independently of what he thinks. He believes that he is correct because he does not understand what it would mean to be incorrect. That's for others to be.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 21:46
|
|
|
Trump's playbook has always been: 1. Contract for good or service and agree on price 2. Good is delivered or service is performed 3. When payment is demanded, refuse to pay. Tell the other party that, in fact, they owe YOU money. Sure them, or dare them to sue you 4. Drag the case out as long as possible until the other party spends almost as much on legal fees as the original amount owed 5. Offer to pay pennies on the dollar or, better yet, just don't pay. 6. Other party quits in frustration and/or bankruptcy 7. Repeat
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 21:50
|
|
|
Scratch Monkey posted:Trump's playbook has always been: But THIS time it won't happen to me. I'm special, because he told me I'm special so he's not going to screw me over.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 21:59
|
|
|
Cimber posted:But THIS time it won't happen to me. I'm special, because he told me I'm special so he's not going to screw me over. "..... I can't loving believe he screwed me over, how was I supposed to know this was going to happen?!"
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 22:10
|
|
|
Mercury_Storm posted:It's the mentality of a dictator and/or fascist, which we've seen time and time again throughout history, but I guess people are still surprised that it happened here. All privilege will construct beliefs to justify itself and to argue that what it unfairly has is fair.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 22:17
|
|
|
Randalor posted:I mean, we already saw this happen when he said he likes his steaks well-done, and then his followers committed heinous crimes against meat that didn't deserve it. Many good steaks were ruined by slavish loyalty to a man that has no tastebuds. A lot of good steaks have probably been wasted on backyard grills, though. But that isn't really anything new.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 22:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 02:56 |
|
|
cr0y posted:I always wonder who is still paying heavens gate domain registration and hosting fees. apperently a couple of old members who didnt go in the first/second wave are kinda "keeping the lights on". Alot of people kinda forget, with the exception of the mass sucide, the heavens gate was pretty banal for weird cult. they were weird and a couple chopped their nuts off for higher eveolution and to get rid of sexual urges, but it wasnt "abusive" compared to say, jim jones in the traditional hell cult sense. it was more kinda just applewhite spiraling after his mentor and best friend died(nettles was the brains behind it all) and after she didnt come back, they were aimless until hale bob. in the end it was just a bunch of sad nerds who wanted to get isakied to the magic super alien citidel.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2023 23:11
|
|