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X-Ray Pecs posted:I find all the talk of a rumored/possibly confirmed Unicorn 2 hilarious and unnecessary, because Unicorn 2 already exists, and it’s called Narrative. It’s all the same poo poo as Unicorn, just less good. narrative had the bones of a really good gundam movie (tortured kids, space psychics, the afterlife talking to the living in indirect ways to hand them weapons of unimaginable power, the afterlife realized that's not a rad idea, a complicated heist having the stakes ratcheted up to 11, robots) but alternated between keeping things unexplained and giving away the plot twist about the phenex 10 minutes in. i wanna see, i dunno i guess it'd be a 20 minute short or something, about how these engineers got the 'inspiration' to make psycommu/psychoframe/the neo zeong, since it's described as 'technology that doesn't belong to this world'. maybe there was some newtype engineer that thought of it? someone being experiemented on at the flanigan institute cracks and starts drawing equations on the wall? a microscope or something just happens to be focused on some important component when a researcher looks through it? sc2 had a similar subplot, when the researcher guy is researching a protoss crystal and realizes it was slowly exposing more of itself to the researcher so he could learn how it works.
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Dec 18, 2023 16:54
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Like a lot of things, it's handled better in Super Robot Wars
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Dec 18, 2023 17:06
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uninterrupted posted:narrative had the bones of a really good gundam movie (tortured kids, space psychics, the afterlife talking to the living in indirect ways to hand them weapons of unimaginable power, the afterlife realized that's not a rad idea, a complicated heist having the stakes ratcheted up to 11, robots) but alternated between keeping things unexplained and giving away the plot twist about the phenex 10 minutes in. It also wavers a lot between “Newtypes are an unexplainable metaphysical phenomenon that humans can’t understand and aren’t ready for yet” (that and the footage of the original Colony Drop both gave me big Akira vibes) and “here’s exactly what Newtypes are.” There’s that great bit where Zoltan yells that oldtypes would never recognize a miracle even if it happened right in front of their faces, and it got me thinking that the only thing more common in the UC than a Zeon regiment fighting a Federation pilot in a prototype Gundam, is a big glowy unexplainable Newtype phenomenon. You think the shine would wear off after the, like, third time someone sees readings that are just like the Axis Shock.
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Dec 18, 2023 17:42
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You go beyond the time but she still axis shockin'
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Dec 18, 2023 19:15
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https://twitter.com/PatsoCatso/status/1696110356437827717?t=FKstg2tmYoMreWM2PKLGYw&s=19 Even in Death I still serve at three times normal speed.
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Dec 18, 2023 19:43
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thanks i hate it
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Dec 18, 2023 20:00
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Yeah a dreadnought moving at 3 times normal speed is still only doing like 14km/h. Not exactly a comet.
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Dec 18, 2023 20:03
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https://twitter.com/NeoDenmark/status/1736780016074289530
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Dec 19, 2023 02:09
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X-Ray Pecs posted:It also wavers a lot between “Newtypes are an unexplainable metaphysical phenomenon that humans can’t understand and aren’t ready for yet” (that and the footage of the original Colony Drop both gave me big Akira vibes) and “here’s exactly what Newtypes are.” There’s that great bit where Zoltan yells that oldtypes would never recognize a miracle even if it happened right in front of their faces, and it got me thinking that the only thing more common in the UC than a Zeon regiment fighting a Federation pilot in a prototype Gundam, is a big glowy unexplainable Newtype phenomenon. You think the shine would wear off after the, like, third time someone sees readings that are just like the Axis Shock. Newtype phenomena that are visible to normal people instead of just communication/feelings between newtypes aren't common at all, though. There's like half a dozen actual physical newtype phenomena prior to the Axis Shock, and pretty much all of them are somewhat mundane things like "wow that mobile suit suddenly swung a really big beam saber" or "that mobile suit soaked up a suspicious amount of gunfire", and all of them happened on active battlefields where the only people seeing them were the active participants in the battle - and most of the people witnessing the newtype weirdness on the battlefield died very shortly after.
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Dec 19, 2023 02:45
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Arc Hammer posted:https://twitter.com/PatsoCatso/status/1696110356437827717?t=FKstg2tmYoMreWM2PKLGYw&s=19 It would have be REDD! Red Wuns goh FASTAHHH! 
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Dec 19, 2023 10:12
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That sure was a final battle. SEED tried really hard to be cooler and edgier 0079, it even had twice the hitlers; but over all it just feels really weak and poorly plotted out. Like it's juggling way too much and barely manages to to establish much of its own identity as a result. The newtype stuff at the end feels really shoehorned in and superfluous to the story at large. Overall I don't really hate the series like I thought I would after this rewatch, but I think I like it even less than I did before, because that story is dire.
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Dec 19, 2023 15:13
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It definitely isn't my all time favorite Gundam series, but I can see why it would get its reputation at the time because it's a modern take on 0079. And I felt a little bit for the Kira and Arthurn dynamic of two best friends on different sides of a war grappling with their choices and trying to deal with killing people and watching their friends die.
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Dec 19, 2023 17:23
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I think it's inherently a more interesting setup than 0079 but the execution starts slipping in the Earth desert arc and really falls off the rails towards the end. I did a rewatch last year and liked it more than I remembered, but by the end just was kind of almost glad it was over.
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Dec 19, 2023 18:36
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I think even if I liked SEED more than I do, I would spend the entire time wishing I was watching literally any other art style. Even Age!
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Dec 19, 2023 18:47
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Athrun and Kira have a pretty good dynamic in the original show and their final fight is legitimately pretty sick. I'm also fond of Rau as a villain and Providence chewing through the cast in the endgame is rad.
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Dec 19, 2023 18:58
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ImpAtom posted:I think even if I liked SEED more than I do, I would spend the entire time wishing I was watching literally any other art style. Even Age! To be fair to Age its art style wasn't the problem (beam Saber physics notwithstanding)
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Dec 19, 2023 19:01
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Arc Hammer posted:To be fair to Age its art style wasn't the problem (beam Saber physics notwithstanding) It had that weird thing where it had two different styles, one significantly more cartoony than the others, and you ended up with characters who looked like they came from another species populating the land.
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Dec 19, 2023 19:07
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RevolverDivider posted:Athrun and Kira have a pretty good dynamic in the original show and their final fight is legitimately pretty sick. I'm also fond of Rau as a villain and Providence chewing through the cast in the endgame is rad. I did like that with all the new technologies introduced in SEED like Phase Armor and Nuclear Reactors powering Beam Spams, it's still good old Funnels that gives the heroes the most trouble edit: I was also engaged in Flay's entire emotional manipulation of her friends and Kira to keep them on the Archangel and forcing Kira to keep piloting the Gundam to make him suffer as revenge for failing to save her dad. SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Dec 19, 2023 |
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Dec 19, 2023 19:20
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Even if Flay was the one who initiated the relationship with Kira, it's still bizarre how no one in their friend group raised a stink over Kira stealing Sai's fiancee. Even in the desert arc where Sai confronted Kira, there wasn't any pushback to how Kira twisted Sai's arm behind his back and coldly told him that Flay's with him now and he should deal with it. I don't know if Cagalli rejoined them by that point, but maybe she would have called Kira out on that.
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Dec 19, 2023 19:42
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I thought it was believable, they all gossiped about it in the mess hall but didn’t want to make it even more awkward by calling it out and leaving it to Kira, Flay, and Sai to figure it out, and Flay even laid it out that her engagement was in word only and with her father dead there’s no real reason for her to be together with Sai when she SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Dec 19, 2023 |
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Dec 19, 2023 21:30
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SgtSteel91 posted:I thought it was believable, they all gossiped about it in the mess hall but didn’t want to make it even more awkward by calling it out and leaving it to Kira, Flay, and Sai to figure it out, and Flay even laid it out that her engagement was in word only and with her father dead there’s no real reason for her to be together with Sai when she Yeah i don’t remember it on the rewatch as that terrible. Flays world went to poo poo and the relationship seemed like a sham to her, her fiance was slow on the uptake and sucked for him but didn’t seem like Kira was pushing anything that Flay didn’t choose for herself.
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Dec 20, 2023 01:37
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RevolverDivider posted:Athrun and Kira have a pretty good dynamic in the original show and their final fight is legitimately pretty sick. I'm also fond of Rau as a villain and Providence chewing through the cast in the endgame is rad. I found that Athrun and Kira barely had a dynamic, but Kira barely has any dynamic with anyone except Flay, Lacus and Cagalli where his dynamic is largely just crying. The problem I had with the whole Athrun and Kira thing is that they both insist they're really good friends, but we don't really see much of that until the tail end of the show. Before then it's a lot of "Kira, join ZAFT because you're a coordinator!" and "No, you guys blew up a colony and I want to protect my friends" followed by Athrun being baffled that anyone wouldn't just want to blindly join ZAFT. Even after he thinks he's killed his best friend he just goes back to following orders until Kira comes back from the presumed grave to be like "Maybe neither side is right." And it's kind of weird because the cast constantly say how like, strong willed Athrun is and poo poo, and how Kira's soft and what not. But it feels like that's completely backwards because Athrun's just kind of an idiot who can't really do anything without someone telling him to do it, again until the last few episodes. Meanwhile Kira's the one who constantly disobeys orders to do what he thinks is right and feels bad about things like mass civilian casualties before it has a personal cost to him. Which just kind of hits at the core of my problem with most of the show's writing; it tells us a lot about the characters but then doesn't really show us much about them, and often what it does show us contradicts what it tells us. Rau was a better villain than the two turbo hitlers I guess, but he just kind of feels like a lovely Char. Like if you took all of Char's character arcs from 0079 through to CCA and then asked someone who had only read the wiki to summarize him, you'd get Rau. It doesn't help that he only really has any actual connection to Mu and Athrun outside of the big plot dump at the end of the series which I assume exists basically just to set up the final fight. It tries hard to emulate the char dynamic from 0079, but fails to capture the progression from Amuro with worse skills in a better machine, to them being roughly equal when Char upgrades to the gelgoog, to char having worse skills in a better machine with the zeong in the finale. Mostly because I think Kira only fights Rau like once in the series before the finale?
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Dec 20, 2023 01:55
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ManSedan posted:On like there’s a soul in this thread that’s not going to see it at some point. you have no idea how much gundam I've quietly not watched and just never mentioned
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Dec 20, 2023 01:57
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I mean what else are we supposed to watch until Gundam: Eastern Front 1943 comes out. I've already got a sense of what that series is gonna be like while Freedom has the chance to be completely batshit.
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Dec 20, 2023 |
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Dec 20, 2023 02:13
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Nuebot posted:Rau was a better villain than the two turbo hitlers I guess, but he just kind of feels like a lovely Char. Like if you took all of Char's character arcs from 0079 through to CCA and then asked someone who had only read the wiki to summarize him, you'd get Rau. It doesn't help that he only really has any actual connection to Mu and Athrun outside of the big plot dump at the end of the series which I assume exists basically just to set up the final fight. It tries hard to emulate the char dynamic from 0079, but fails to capture the progression from Amuro with worse skills in a better machine, to them being roughly equal when Char upgrades to the gelgoog, to char having worse skills in a better machine with the zeong in the finale. Mostly because I think Kira only fights Rau like once in the series before the finale? I don't really know where you get "he's a lovely Char" from. Love him or hate him, Rau has almost nothing in common with Char beyond being a blonde guy in a mask who is good at piloting. Their personalities are basically entirely divergent from each other, they're working for completely different goals, and they're used in different ways by the story. Char's entire arc through Mobile Suit Gundam is characterized by his increasing obsession with beating the Gundam to the detriment of his previous goals and Rau does not give a single poo poo about the Gundams at all and is only involved in stealing them because it lets him stoke the fires of war a little bit more to help achieve his true goal of mutual genocide. Amuro constantly rubs up against Char throughout the original series while Kira barely interacts with Rau at all, and the only reason why Rau hates Kira is that Kira got to win the genetic lottery while Rau didn't - and even then, Rau would probably be happy to never fight Kira and just let Kira watch as humanity kills itself. The characters who emulate Char's arc through the OYW the most in SEED are Athrun and Yzak, who are both dangerous enemy aces who have personal beefs with the Gundam that lead to them making poor choices and mistakes that come to define them for functionally the entire series(with both of them even aping Char's face turn in the end, down to Athrun briefly doing a Quattro impression at the beginning of Destiny).
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Dec 20, 2023 02:55
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There really is nobody in UC who is that close to Rau, The Jovian emperor and Iron Mask are the closest I guess
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Dec 20, 2023 03:00
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Ironically I think Full Frontal is closer to Rau than Char.
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Dec 20, 2023 03:46
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ImpAtom posted:Ironically I think Full Frontal is closer to Rau than Char. Closer yes, but there is a sort of cold calculating balance to FF that Rau lacks. Rau is patient but is actually a frothing saturday morning cartoon villain in the end. Frontal is a boring nobody with a boring nobody plan of slow economic decay and starvation. If I went to Rau with a plan to kill the Earth in ten decades with economic embargo he would probably shoot me
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Dec 20, 2023 04:04
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Zoltan Akkanen. Zoltan is UC Rau. Specifically, he's wish.com Rau.
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Dec 20, 2023 06:22
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Yeah, Full Frontal is clearly posing, but he's posing as the Char people think he was rather than the human disaster the man actually was. I'm also not sure I'd compare Rau to him myself just because both of them have extremely different visions of what "the end of the Earth" would be. Full Frontal's ultimate plan was to force emigration into space via political and economic pressure, Rau wanted to just nuke the planet. In a weird way Rau is sort of CCA Char without any pretense or outwardly expressed greater agenda, he just wants to see the world burn.Warmachine posted:Zoltan Akkanen. Zoltan is UC Rau. Specifically, he's wish.com Rau. Zoltan is way more in line with Rau. They even have similar motivations, having decided to go all in on violence out of their own feelings of inadequacy. Amusingly, Zoltan had more restraint in the end.
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Dec 20, 2023 06:27
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Just to substantiate my claim: Both are unwanted clones bitter that they were created and discarded. Zoltan wants to be recognized and acknowledged, but he'll settle with killing everyone just like Rau. He's the budget knockoff version because Rau had the charisma and cunning needed to actually manipulate people toward his desired outcome, while Zoltan was too stupid and unstable to use anything other than brute force to get what he wanted.
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Dec 20, 2023 06:27
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lmao that the impulse gundam has the same transformation style and gimmick as the victory
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Dec 20, 2023 07:46
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SgtSteel91 posted:I did like that with all the new technologies introduced in SEED like Phase Armor and Nuclear Reactors powering Beam Spams, it's still good old Funnels that gives the heroes the most trouble SEED honestly made me despise Bit weapons in anime, just because of how many arbitrary bullshit shots they were used for due to the recycled animation. G-Witch is a notable exemption, because they were all distinct parts, and actually kept track of where they were during a battle
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Dec 20, 2023 08:35
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Nuebot posted:Like if you took all of Char's character arcs from 0079 through to CCA and then asked someone who had only read the wiki to summarize him, you'd get Rau. You're thinking of Zechs.
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Dec 20, 2023 13:27
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Four episodes in and Shinn already kind of sucks. He blames Orb, or specifically Cagalli's dad, for the death of his family at the hands of an earth army weapon (Or I guess Kira, Kira might have done it) when they invaded because Orb refused to give up their sovereignty to an army that likely would have killed all of the coordinators living there anyway. But joining ZAFT is cool and good despite the entire reason the army invaded Orb was because they needed a way to get into space after ZAFT destroyed multiple of their key bases. I guess I'm just not really sure what his goal is, four whole episodes in. But he's a real goober about it.
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Dec 21, 2023 08:27
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Gaius Marius posted:Closer yes, but there is a sort of cold calculating balance to FF that Rau lacks. Rau is patient but is actually a frothing saturday morning cartoon villain in the end. Frontal is a boring nobody with a boring nobody plan of slow economic decay and starvation. If I went to Rau with a plan to kill the Earth in ten decades with economic embargo he would probably shoot me For the record, I genuinely like FF as literally Char As Designed By Committee. It really is a delightful concept.
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Dec 21, 2023 12:17
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incidentally, there's an interview with hiroshi kobayashi, the director, in the final blu-ray for witch from mercury, and he explicitly refers to suletta and miorine as married. which isnt a revelation because they obviously are but it just makes the whole back-and-forth they tried to do even more confusing if he can just explicitly mention it there. the only thing i can think of is that kadokawa, the company that publishes newtype ace, was the problem, but that'd be weird because kadokawa has ties to several series that also have explicit lesbianism.
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Dec 21, 2023 12:24
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https://twitter.com/sgk_123/status/1737666389866111419
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Dec 21, 2023 12:25
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Maybe they were just concerned that WFM was too similar to the other lesbian Gundam series, Birdie Wing.
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Dec 21, 2023 12:27
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Endorph posted:incidentally, there's an interview with hiroshi kobayashi, the director, in the final blu-ray for witch from mercury, and he explicitly refers to suletta and miorine as married. which isnt a revelation because they obviously are but it just makes the whole back-and-forth they tried to do even more confusing if he can just explicitly mention it there. the only thing i can think of is that kadokawa, the company that publishes newtype ace, was the problem, but that'd be weird because kadokawa has ties to several series that also have explicit lesbianism. I mean, then again, they did just do the whole Irreversible Damage thing
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Dec 21, 2023 15:14
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