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Nessus posted:Navigators are in general just plain better than psykers for most purposes, but they have a union and the psykers don't, so who gets fed to the Corpse-God? That's right. Maximizing willpower stacking. I think Perun is doing a good job in his playthrough between Lidless Gaze for opening blasts, and then chaining Held In My Gaze for single targets. The problem Cassia will eventually run into, I predict, is the same problem Yrliet runs into: her damage is additive, not multiplicative. Any damage bonus a burst-fire build gets is multiplied by the number of shots in the burst, while Cassia is only doing one hit per click. In the beginning when enemies have low hitpoints, this is great because she can turn whole swathes of them to jelly with a single cast of Lidless Gaze. But later on, when enemies can start surviving one or two of those, it becomes more valuable for the stun property because your multiplicative damage dealers scale better. And burst accuracy becomes less a problem as your BS goes up. Burst accuracy is more 'calculating whether the shot goes down the intended path.' If it does, then it is on the enemy's dodge and cover effectiveness to avoid the shot. With a high enough BS, more and more of your shots go down the center line (you can see this changing when you look at the hit percents for the targets in the 'dark red' center of the 3-tile burst line, vs the light red on the edges). I THINK those percentages are the odds that a shot travels down that path. Someone with a really high BS won't actually hit targets to the left or right very much because their shot grouping is so tight. In the end, I had Argenta using a Heavy Bolter (the bog-standard one, I didn't have enough rep for the improved version) as a "line" damage buzz saw, and the Toxic Flamer as an AOE weapon for killing a lot of mooks very fast. Warmachine fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Dec 19, 2023 |
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Dec 19, 2023 23:25
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emSparkly posted:How should I be equipping Argenta anyway? She’s like one of my worst combatants and I have to be doing something wrong here. Start with sniper rifle, move to arch-militant with heavy bolter in act 2 when you unlock it for burst fire shenanigans
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Dec 19, 2023 23:34
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I feel like I'm decently far into Chapter 2 but u never did come across that Heavy Bolter. Just the one only Heretics can use
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Dec 19, 2023 23:36
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when does Argenta's Act 4 quest trigger? She's just been chilling on my bridge for ages
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Dec 19, 2023 23:38
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Pattonesque posted:when does Argenta's Act 4 quest trigger? She's just been chilling on my bridge for ages I had to force complete the predecesor with Toybox mod :/ Hopefully thursdays patch fixes that and others
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Dec 19, 2023 23:44
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Sab669 posted:I feel like I'm decently far into Chapter 2 but u never did come across that Heavy Bolter. Just the one only Heretics can use The drusians sell one
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Dec 19, 2023 23:48
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Alternatively to heavy bolter - the elder splinter rifle has the exact same stats without being a heavy weapon and you should get one in Janus.
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Dec 19, 2023 23:49
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Dandywalken posted:I had to force complete the predecesor with Toybox mod :/ Hopefully thursdays patch fixes that and others gosh darnit. what was the predecessor called?
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Dec 19, 2023 23:51
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Ok so i did something stupid in this game (in chapter 2) and used the respec function a bunch without noticing that it was costing me 2PF. Is a dozen or so PF a paltry amount I won't care about soon, or is this a "install toybox" situation?
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Dec 19, 2023 23:53
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Merrill Grinch posted:Ok so i did something stupid in this game (in chapter 2) and used the respec function a bunch without noticing that it was costing me 2PF. Is a dozen or so PF a paltry amount I won't care about soon, or is this a "install toybox" situation? If it costs 2PF for you right now that means you've only spent 1PF on respecs. Your first 4ish are free, then the cost goes up by 1PF each time you use it. But yeah if you did actually spend a dozen PF I'd recommend using Toybox, and use it for any future respecs as well because losing PF in this game kinda sucks.
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Dec 19, 2023 23:54
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How in the emperor's name do they justify it costing you profit factor Profit factor 1 is like "a large successful business" and it's exponential from there
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Dec 19, 2023 23:57
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Nessus posted:How in the emperor's name do they justify it costing you profit factor Owlcat designs games like they don't particularly like the player
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Dec 19, 2023 23:58
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deep dish peat moss posted:If it costs 2PF for you right now that means you've only spent 1PF on respecs. Your first 4ish are free, then the cost goes up by 1PF each time you use it. I probably misunderstood how much I had spent then. Thanks!
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Dec 20, 2023 00:00
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Warmachine posted:If he's healing, there's either another mob healing him or he's got an ability that heals him. Mechanically, you also need to be mindful of where he's placing his AOEs. But Yrliet isn't going to kill a boss in one shot ever. Multiple shots on the same turn? Maybe. But it sounds like the bigger problem is that something is healing the boss and you're taking too much damage yourself. He has an ability that heals 20% per round. It seems there are some cover spot on the map where you are very unlikely to be hit by his rockets and he won't shot you with this bolter. I was able to cheese it by hiding my tank behind indestructible cover and somehow the boss kept aggro on him. I was able to get everyone else around him and kill him in a couple rounds.
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Dec 20, 2023 00:09
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Nessus posted:Navigators are in general just plain better than psykers for most purposes, but they have a union and the psykers don't, so who gets fed to the Corpse-God? That's right. Arglebargle III posted:Yeah how do I build maximum castigating cassia? I'm bad with remembering names so sorry in advance. But all you need is her single target nuke (gaze into my eyes or something like that), the first tier aoe forced movement ability (snare or something like that), the talent that gives her bonus willpower whenever someone takes a bonus turn (stacks infinitely with itself), the talent that does damage when she forces enemies to move, and finially the tier 2 aoe forced movement ability (lure or something like that). Everything after these is just gravy, I just go down the navigator talents list and pick the ones that look good. Mostly you open up with gathering enemies up and then using her officer ability to give argenta a chance to burst them all, then you use the single target nuke to finish off anything that needs finishing off and/or give Argenta a full turn if you racked up enough momentum. This is how you start the infinite bonus willpower train so she starts easily dishing out 100+ damage nukes.
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Dec 20, 2023 00:49
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FacelessVoid posted:He has an ability that heals 20% per round. Ahh, so it's a DPS check. Since I was using a heavy bolter build (in my defense I was salivating over it before I even realized Versatility was broken), I used my RT and Cassia to pass Argenta turns and get her Versatility stacks fed on the trash, slowly working my way around the left side by lining up each pylon behind the trash mobs so overpen and overshoot would destroy the pylons. That ended with her standing behind the boss with something like 26 stacks of Versatility, which doubled to 50 something with Reckless Rush or whatever it is called. At which point two full bursts were enough to take him from 100% to 0%. Definitely a longer slog for builds that aren't feasting on free turns and abusing the momentum system.
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Dec 20, 2023 01:01
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Yeah that fight almost necessitates that style I think. I disliked it. Plus idk if it bugged but it would fire rockets every turn... and it gets interrupt turns when damaged, so it would mark an area and immediately fire lol
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Dec 20, 2023 01:03
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Ciaphas posted:Guess I ought to have realized the Navigator would be a party member - I figured I'd give it a pass because it's not like I needed to warp out of the system yet and navigators just do their own thing on the ship in the lore, I'd thought Burst fire starts off kinda poopy until you get ways to mitigate enemy dodge and cover, or high BS to mitigate, then its gets obscene. The officer ability Take Aim means the enemy don't get cover against the next attack, but if you use it on someone who has Voice Of Command, enemy (and friends tbh) won't get their dodge either. Cover and dodge are literally the only two ways to avoid burst fire, then it's down to tanking it. If a character does dodge a bullet, then the bullet will try anyone standing behind them. If the bullet hits a person's cover, it will damage or destroy it, and can possibly over-penetrate. It can possible over-penetrate a target it does hit and continue to hit others. There's an exemplar talent far in the future that actually makes over-penetrations way more likely and impossible to dodge, which is god drat hilarious. Full cover which can be penetrated actually becomes a liability, as they no longer get to dodge.  Regarding chance to hit, read the next paragraph. Zore posted:Her initial gun is like the single worst in the game for burst fire, recoil as a stat is just flatly subtracted from your hit rate and it has 40. Just give her a Longlas or Sniper Rifle for now and a better bolter/heavy bolter when you get them later, by level 15 or so she will be death incarnate with rapid fire. Nah. When you burst fire, there's a line of squares drawn between you and the target, 3 squares wide within effective range or 5 wide outside effective range. When you burst, there is some ungodly calculation of your BS to check if your bullet goes down the very center line of squares, "deviates slightly" (this is the treated exactly the same as center line within effective range, but beyond effective range it becomes the adjacent lines adjacent to the middle line) or "deviates strongly" (the outside lines). As far as I can tell, bullets that deviate out of the center line are 50/50'd between the respective left/right line. The recoil stat shifts the check by a fixed amount for every shot after the first and does make slight and strong deviations more likely. Which sound really bad! Until you learn that when using the Rapid Fire ability, it has its own probabilities for center/slight/strong deviations, and does not care about your BS. If you have the talent that gets rid of the damage malus on rapid fire, it is always worth it. Keep in mind as well that if an enemy has a 2x2 or larger footprint, they still get hit by bullets that deviate into their other squares. If you mouse over the burst fire icon before hitting Rapid Fire, you can see the probabilities for center line and deviations, but remember center line and slight deviations are the same thing when inside effective range. The chance to hit shown to hit a target is a snap shot of how likely a bullet is to hit the target, which includes working out how likely a bullet is going to go to their line, how likely their cover is to take the hit, how likely they will dodge. It isn't at all accurate for people standing behind the target, as it's telling you what is the chance the bullet slips by the first guy and gets the second, not what the chances are to hit the second guy are once the first gets turned into mist. Sab669 posted:Seems like Burst Fire / high ROF weapons + Archmilitant class is what everyone likes ITT. I had a two second experiment with Argenta which put a high end melta pistol in one hand a hand flamer in the other. It was promising, but tbf I had used the heavy bolter through that fight to generate her versatility, it was just a quick test. I want to go for a melee or a seraphim style build at some point. Eediot Jedi fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Dec 20, 2023 |
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Dec 20, 2023 01:11
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I love that most of the immobile enemies in this game like turrets can still be dragged around the map by Cassia's movement skills
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Dec 20, 2023 01:44
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As of Act 4 I can say that Commoragh is fine actually but Quetza Temar is loving horrible and needs to die in a fire ASAP. I have never wanted to Exterminatus a planet but this one needs to be nuked from orbit. Only way to be sure. Quetza Temar actually makes Commoragh retroactively way, way better, because at least THINGS HAPPENED instead of just wandering around the same 3 tiny squares of jungle, forever.
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Dec 20, 2023 02:08
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Excellent coverage on burst fire, except for one thing: Rapid Fire. I think Rapid Fire is more conditional than you make it out to be as your BS rises and you start getting ways to compensate for recoil (High BS, Pasqal's Machine Spirit Communion, some gloves and boots that cut recoil in half or completely negate it) you start being reliably able to put the full burst down the center line. It becomes a choice between consistently landing the full burst on a single target/line, or spreading it across an area where it wouldn't normally deviate anymore. Where I agree that Rapid Fire is always the right choice is against 'large' targets. Things like Space Marines, and anything that has a 3-tile wide cross section. At that point, the extra bullets are straight up bonus damage, it's a no-brainer.
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Dec 20, 2023 02:09
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Honestly for a game where you're always outnumbered and action economy is everything NPC stun grenades should be removed.
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Dec 20, 2023 02:13
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They suck yeah
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Dec 20, 2023 02:15
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Arglebargle III posted:Honestly for a game where you're always outnumbered and action economy is everything NPC stun grenades should be removed. I want to know where they got the notion that NPCs should be able to make unlimited grenade attacks in a turn. Just windmill arming them at you.
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Dec 20, 2023 02:16
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Eschatos posted:I have a noble officer MC, argenta, idira, Pasqual, abelard and the Inquisitor guy. My dude also snipes but doesn't have much spare ap and isn't great at it. I do try to stack debuffs but my killing power against the big guy is awful with anyone but Idira. Does Idira have the ability that gives her +1 psy rating every time someone uses a Heroic? Her Scream damage can get disgusting that way (Scream is the best way to hurt this boss). Give Argenta a longlas and kill the sniper first-up. Officer buffs help with this. Remember that the boss has easy to manage aggro rules (read his description). Move Move Move! can help to get his target out of the way just before his turn.
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Dec 20, 2023 02:18
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LOL I finished a conversation and all the dead NPCs slid across the floor to leave with their friends.
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Dec 20, 2023 02:30
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For those of you stacking buffs and AP on Argenta -- you know you can just hire a second arch-militant?
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Dec 20, 2023 02:31
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Arglebargle III posted:For those of you stacking buffs and AP on Argenta -- you know you can just hire a second arch-militant? Yes but she ramps so it’s more efficient to have one arch-militant and five officers.
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Dec 20, 2023 02:35
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Arglebargle III posted:For those of you stacking buffs and AP on Argenta -- you know you can just hire a second arch-militant? You could also be a better Arch Militant yourself (Fortress world, pyro) and then hire more officers.
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Dec 20, 2023 02:36
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:You could also be a better Arch Militant yourself (Fortress world, pyro) and then hire more officers. Rogue Trader comes from fortress world as a psyker, finds the open world and warp travel terrifying, immediately hires 3 people to scream orders at him to remind him of home.
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Dec 20, 2023 02:39
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My Fortress World pyro soldier MC doesn't even use psyker powers. I respecced into only taking -armour on hit and +crit on hit instead.
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Dec 20, 2023 02:47
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Yuiiut posted:Rogue Trader comes from fortress world as a psyker, finds the open world and warp travel terrifying, immediately hires 3 people to scream orders at him to remind him of home. Well I know what my second playthrough is going to be after the bugs are patched.
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Dec 20, 2023 02:55
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LuiCypher posted:Heinrix is quickly becoming the Lann of the game, given how stupid easy it is to start his romance by accident and how annoying he's starting to get about it. I just wish that Cassia would be gay with my MC, but it looks like I'll just have to get friendly with Yrliet instead via mutual respect. I kept romancing Heinrix on the side while also romancing Jae and Yrliet because it amused me how much he insists he's a good boy Inquisitor and won't let his feelings get the better of him and how he's clearly extremely hot and bothered by my Rogue Trader.
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Dec 20, 2023 02:56
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Further Reading posted:My Fortress World pyro soldier MC doesn't even use psyker powers. I respecced into only taking -armour on hit and +crit on hit instead. Yea that's pretty much why you would go pyro. There might be another background with stuff that comes close to that, but I can't immediately think of any.
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Dec 20, 2023 02:56
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Tbh they should let you marry Abelard just to spite all the nobles on Dragonus.
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Dec 20, 2023 03:00
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Yea that's pretty much why you would go pyro. There might be another background with stuff that comes close to that, but I can't immediately think of any. The astra-militarium commander has stuff based around buffing shots against enemies standing next to your characters; but it's still not as good as the pyro ones, most are once per combat and you can just kill everything with burst damage before your melee gets to move anyway.
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Dec 20, 2023 03:00
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Just had a horrifying thought that if the DLC does extend the campaign, I'm going to have to suffer the consequences of my actions.Warmachine posted:Excellent coverage on burst fire, except for one thing: Rapid Fire. I think Rapid Fire is more conditional than you make it out to be as your BS rises and you start getting ways to compensate for recoil (High BS, Pasqal's Machine Spirit Communion, some gloves and boots that cut recoil in half or completely negate it) you start being reliably able to put the full burst down the center line. It becomes a choice between consistently landing the full burst on a single target/line, or spreading it across an area where it wouldn't normally deviate anymore. I think when I last checked, the max I could get was 80% chance for bullets down the center line, which I had thought was maxed out. But I just checked again and now I'm at 95% center line so yep you're right. For other people's reference, rapid fire in effective range is 60% center line no matter your low/high skills.
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Dec 20, 2023 03:02
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Eediot Jedi posted:Just had a horrifying thought that if the DLC does extend the campaign, I'm going to have to suffer the consequences of my actions. The real Rogue Trader experience.
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Dec 20, 2023 03:03
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The good news is that Owlcat DLCs generally don't extend the campaign. They tend to offer new companions and classes, additional (separate) campaigns that go in-depth about side stories from the main campaign, vaguely roguelike dungeons that integrate into the main campaign, optional mid-game story beats, etc. But you never need the DLCs to get the full campaign story experience.
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Dec 20, 2023 03:23
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deep dish peat moss posted:The good news is that Owlcat DLCs generally don't extend the campaign. They tend to offer new companions and classes, additional (separate) campaigns that go in-depth about side stories from the main campaign, new classes, vaguely roguelike dungeons that integrate into the main campaign, etc. I think they explicitly stated somewhere (someone posted upthread about it) that they were going to be focusing on campaign extensions this time, rather than the traditional side-story and endless dungeon of Kingmaker and Wrath. If I had to wishlist something, it would be for more interactions with Winterscale and Chorda before Act 4. I think they missed an opportunity to stoke some conflicts with your peers.
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Dec 20, 2023 03:24
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