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Halloween Jack posted:That's a great point. It's time to hold Haiti accountable. How is this anything like expelling the native Jews from Yemen? Is that suppose to be a good action, like throwing out the French colonizers? PT6A posted:I think it's bad, OP, but I can also recognize that Houthi anti-Semitism exists in a different context than (neo-)Nazi anti-Semitism. I will never say that anti-Semitism is correct, but I also think that it's valuable to figure out where it comes from in order to eliminate it, instead of treating it like some sort of horrible, unknowable spectre, which is always borne of purely irrational hatred. Who are you talking to? Though it seems... awfully naive to think that that is all it takes to eliminate anti-Semitism in the Arab world. Israel is uh, not the only source of anti-Semitism in the Arab world.
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Dec 20, 2023 22:00
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Groovelord Neato posted:By "appropriation" they mean something like this... Right, it's obviously horrible, but it's not appropriation, it's an authentically Jewish expression of religious fascism. ISIS isn't appropriating Islam, the KKK isn't appropriating Christianity, they are using symbols from their own cultures in disgusting ways. PT6A posted:I will never say that anti-Semitism is correct, but... The post that incited this discussion wasn't saying that antisemitism in Yemen is inexplicable. Nobody believes that. The post that incited this discussion was saying that the Houthis should not be lionized because they're antisemitic to the point of committing ethnic cleansing. We are all on the same page that antisemitism throughout the Arab world is horribly exacerbated by the Nakba and every following decade of Israeli crimes and propaganda. Constantly re-explaining this obvious reality, in response to "violent antisemites are not admirable," comes off as "yes, they committed ethnic cleansing, but it's only because they were tricked, so..." Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Dec 20, 2023 |
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Dec 20, 2023 22:07
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moths posted:The antisemitism you've cited is a direct result of Israel being horrible while appointing themselves as the spokes-nation of all Jews everywhere. This makes about as much sense as saying that Islamophobia is caused by ISIS being horrible. One government being lovely doesn't justify being racist against the entire ethnic or religious group that's dominant in that country's government.
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Dec 20, 2023 22:21
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Civilized Fishbot posted:The post that incited this discussion wasn't saying that antisemitism in Yemen is inexplicable. Nobody believes that. The post that incited this discussion was saying that the Houthis should not be lionized because they're antisemitic to the point of committing ethnic cleansing. The issue is that people are sympathetic to taking direct action against Israel, because no other neutral force is doing a goddamn thing. Yeah, I wish they weren't lunatic anti-Semites, but it seems like everyone who isn't a lunatic anti-Semite is lining up to either support Israel or ignore their war crimes (on a national, geopolitical level only, of course) so... unfortunately, people are going to take what they can get. It's a horrible situation, and it can only be solved by people who don't hate Jews, saying "Israel is, in fact, very very bad and we're going to take concrete action to stop them doing genocide." Then the actual anti-Semites can be thrown in the dumpster with the rest of the bigoted assholes and we can go on with our lives.
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Dec 20, 2023 22:24
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Main Paineframe posted:This makes about as much sense as saying that Islamophobia is caused by ISIS being horrible. One government being lovely doesn't justify being racist against the entire ethnic or religious group that's dominant in that country's government. I think there's a difference between justifying it and claiming to understand the motivations behind it, and I'm not sure the former is what is being said.
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Dec 20, 2023 22:25
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Sometimes only a Good Ethnic Cleanser can stop a Bad Ethnic Cleanser, you see.
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Dec 20, 2023 22:25
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PT6A posted:Yeah, I wish they weren't lunatic anti-Semites, but... This is a logical and principled response to the issue, unlike "no you don't understand, they're only antisemitic because they were tricked by Israel" or "they do have a point about the Jews running America." aBagorn posted:I think there's a difference between justifying it and claiming to understand the motivations behind it, and I'm not sure the former is what is being said. There's been some outright justifying it: moths posted:
But mostly it's just been responding to "antisemitism is bad" with "clearly you don't understand why they're antisemitic." As if, if we truly understood that the Houthis are just being tricked by Israel, we wouldn't object to it so strongly. Slantedfloors posted:Sometimes only a Good Ethnic Cleanser can stop a Bad Ethnic Cleanser, you see. [World War 2 Joke] Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Dec 20, 2023 |
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Dec 20, 2023 22:27
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I support their current actions but that's not going to get me to pretend the Houthis are not explicit in that they believe the Jews are a damned people rejected by God and that it's not just rhetoric or allegory.
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Dec 20, 2023 22:30
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PT6A posted:The issue is that people are sympathetic to taking direct action against Israel, because no other neutral force is doing a goddamn thing. Yeah, I wish they weren't lunatic anti-Semites, but it seems like everyone who isn't a lunatic anti-Semite is lining up to either support Israel or ignore their war crimes (on a national, geopolitical level only, of course) so... unfortunately, people are going to take what they can get. It's a horrible situation, and it can only be solved by people who don't hate Jews, saying "Israel is, in fact, very very bad and we're going to take concrete action to stop them doing genocide." Then the actual anti-Semites can be thrown in the dumpster with the rest of the bigoted assholes and we can go on with our lives. I actually am all for loving with Israel to help Gaza, but I just don't believe that is why they're doing it. They've been doing this years before the new war and aren't even particularly picky about who they are attacking. It just seems like they (perhaps correctly) believe that as long as they start saying they're doing it for Gaza that they'll be able to get away with stepping up their piracy efforts, which they had kept pretty low-key to avoid pissing off people enough to shut them down. Also it shouldn't be too hard to understand why Jews, even non-Israel Jews, are pretty loathe to Hand It To Them when they're literal "ethnically cleanses Jews" pieces of poo poo.
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Dec 20, 2023 23:29
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Civilized Fishbot posted:This is a logical and principled response to the issue, unlike "no you don't understand, they're only antisemitic because they were tricked by Israel" or "they do have a point about the Jews running America." Israel is waging this conflict as a racial holy war. Am I misinterpreting the erection of menorahs over the dead of Gaza? Bulldozing Stars of David into the very earth? Flashing them in kill-videos of buildings? Flattening mosques and Christian churches? It's unsettling to watch a purity-checking of Israel's enemies for following the terms Israel has set; Moreso while Israel holds a hate-crimes pass because "we all agreed they're bad off-screen."
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Dec 20, 2023 23:53
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Kchama posted:Israel is uh, not the only source of anti-Semitism in the Arab world.
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Dec 21, 2023 00:00
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moths posted:Israel is waging this conflict as a racial holy war. Am I misinterpreting the erection of menorahs over the dead of Gaza? Bulldozing Stars of David into the very earth? Flashing them in kill-videos of buildings? Flattening mosques and Christian churches? What pass has Israel gotten here for hate-crimes? And how do their bad deeds justify other bad deeds that weren't even done to them? Eiba posted:I agree that it's naive to think antisemitism would end if Israel acted better, so this is just kind of incidental, what other obvious sources of Arab antisemitism are you thinking of here before Israel (or generally Zionism in practice)? I thought things were chill in Ottoman times. It was 'chill' in that as long as a Jew didn't protest being an automatic second-class citizen at best, they weren't extra-persecuted. But uhh it was not a good time being a Jew in the 30s and 40s in the Middle East, for pretty much the same reason it sucked to be a Jew in Germany at those times. Kchama fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Dec 21, 2023 |
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Dec 21, 2023 00:00
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Criticizing and opposing Israel is not antisemitic. Claiming they represent Jews as a whole may be what they say they do, but they don't. Once you start tying the two together it becomes a problem as much as if you said that all Muslims are terrorists. There is no "but you have to understand" or "it doesn't really" or whatever. You don't get a pass on bigotry against innocent people because someone bad was the same religion as them. Trying to come up with justifications and excuses for it just comes across as going "this stuff is fine as long as I agree with the person doing it."
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Dec 21, 2023 00:03
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ImpAtom posted:Criticizing and opposing Israel is not antisemitic. Claiming they represent Jews as a whole may be what they say they do, but they don't. Once you start tying the two together it becomes a problem as much as if you said that all Muslims are terrorists. There is no "but you have to understand" or "it doesn't really" or whatever. You don't get a pass on bigotry against innocent people because someone bad was the same religion as them. Trying to come up with justifications and excuses for it just comes across as going "this stuff is fine as long as I agree with the person doing it." This is doubly true in the case of the Houthis, where this tangent started, because as far as I’ve been able to tell none of the ships they’ve targeted so far have had any connection to Israel at all, with one possible indirect exception (minority ownership of the company owning the vessel or something similar to that).
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Dec 21, 2023 00:10
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Kchama posted:What pass has Israel gotten here for hate-crimes? And how do their bad deeds justify other bad deeds that weren't even done to them? The United States and it's western allies have been giving them a pass since 10/7/23.
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Dec 21, 2023 00:10
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Kchama posted:I actually am all for loving with Israel to help Gaza, but I just don't believe that is why they're doing it. They've been doing this years before the new war and aren't even particularly picky about who they are attacking. It just seems like they (perhaps correctly) believe that as long as they start saying they're doing it for Gaza that they'll be able to get away with stepping up their piracy efforts, which they had kept pretty low-key to avoid pissing off people enough to shut them down. That's also a very fair position. I'm caught in an odd position where I'm glad someone is doing something but I sort of hate that it's them doing it. I'd far prefer, obviously, that my own government would take a strong stance against the Israeli government and then I could support it without moral contradiction.
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Dec 21, 2023 00:15
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Nucleic Acids posted:The United States and it's western allies have been giving them a pass since 10/7/23. I didn't realize that the United States and its western allies existed in this thread, as the person I was replying to said they were receiving a pass in this thread.
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Dec 21, 2023 00:16
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It's pretty easy to hold these views: - It's objectively good that Yemen is putting pressure on Israel. - Yemen has antagonized its Jewish citizens, which is objectively bad. As for the cause, I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that Israel inflames antisemitism in the Arab world. That doesn't mean antisemitism wouldn't exist without them, but you can liken it to say, 9/11; the attack inflamed existing anti-Arab racism in the West to a fatal degree, moving from "We're better than the Arabs" to "Let's kill some towel-heads." Prior to 9/11 Arab Americans were being courted by Republicans, afterwards they were being hunted. As for reasoning: I don't think it's difficult to understand. Yemen's citizens were heavily carpet bombed by Saudi Arabia with the support of the US and the tacit endorsement of the Arab dictatorships, and Yemen was supported & given life-sustaining aid by Iran. Now Israel (who Yemen, as noted in the Houthi slogan, is someone they're already opposed to) is bombing Gaza's civilians, with the support of the US, tacitly endorsed by the Arab dictators, to the outrage of nearly the entire middle east (as far as citizens go). Palestine is supported by Iran, alongside Lebanon and Yemen. Yemen has basically five reasons to antagonize Israel: - They hate Israel. - They have sincere empathy with the Palestinians, like most Arab citizens, and unlike those citizens are not suppressed by a US-installed dictator. - They have an informal alliance with Iran that they can strengthen by aiding Hezbollah. - They can earn the legitimacy of the Arab world by, in conjunction with Hezbollah, severely pressuring the most disliked state in the region. - They can flex their agency and assert their importance on a geopolitical scale by exploiting the fact that Saudi Arabia doesn't want to ignite the conflict, they've already defeated Western weapons & training prior, and the US is not prepared to funnel munitions to three fronts (they can't even greenlight weapons to the current two.) There's nothing but upsides to doing this. The US can make a big show by sending a bunch of Western boats to occupy the sea, but that's evidently not reassuring to the insurance companies (and by extension the shipping companies), and it doesn't guarantee the safety of the shipping boats. They cant be everywhere along Yemen's border (especially without risking an international crisis in the event they're attacked) and the boats can't intercept every munition lobbed. As for moralization: We should come to terms with the fact that Hezbollah, Hamas, Yemen, and Iran are objectively doing more to halt a genocide than any other force not just in the region, but the world. People are naturally going to be mad about this and wishcast reasons why it's not noble (we have, after all, been saturated with hawkish propaganda WRT all four), but at the end of the day that remains true. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Dec 21, 2023 |
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Dec 21, 2023 00:23
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I've seen the line about how Israel's crimes just aren't interesting since we're all in agreement used as recently as today. It's a hell of a way to shift critical focus from a genocide to those those opposing it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 21, 2023 00:29
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Who said they were uninteresting? People have said there's not much to discuss because we all agree, they suck and are horrible crimes. But that's different from them not being 'interesting'. The reason that was said was because they were being used to try and say "no we shouldn't talk about OTHER'S crimes, because Israel is doing crimes!" We've discussed those crimes and all think they're loving poo poo, but that doesn't seem to be the case for the crimes of others.
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Dec 21, 2023 00:37
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moths posted:It's unsettling to watch a purity-checking of Israel's enemies for following the terms Israel has set... What is actually happening here is that a user posted that violent antisemites committed to ethnic cleansing are not admirable, and you took such issue with this that you launched a series of increasingly stupid and disgusting defenses for these proud perpetrators of ethnic cleansing. You said: moths posted:I doubt the Houthis give two shits about Jews outside of Israel. This would have been very easy for you to check, and it was quickly proven wrong - they committed ethnic cleansing against all the Jews in Yemen, and spread Nazi lies about Jews in America. Then you said they only hate Jews because of Israeli propaganda: moths posted:they justifiably oppose Israel but fell for Israel's self branding. Again this was proven wrong - they believe in Nazi ideas like "Jews secretly run America" which is not Israeli propaganda (the Israeli state constantly complains that the US doesn't support it enough, frequently charging it with antisemitism). It is not an Israeli idea, but it is a Nazi idea. And their repression of Christians, Atheists, and Bahai indicates that they have a violent contempt for non-Muslims which would include Jews regardless of what Israel does. Then you said, "well, their Nazi ideas are grounded in evidence." This really surprised me! Because you appear to be a well-meaning person dedicated to resisting fascism, it surprised me that your reaction to Nazi propaganda against Jews, spread by a military that ethnically cleansed their local Jews, that marches under a literal banner of Jew-hatred - your reaction was to affirm that their Nazi propaganda was grounded in the idea that "Israel get[s] everything it wants from the US" moths posted:
Now you're saying "well, they're following the terms Israel has set." This is a euphemistic way of describing violent bigotry and ethnic cleansing, which are the exact reasons that we all agree the Israeli state is contemptible and must be brought down. This is clearly not your attitude toward Houthi bigotry and ethnic cleansing, even though you acknowledge that their bigotry and ethnic cleansing are comparable to the State of Israel's. If you just didn't like the "purity checking" being applied to these perpetrators of ethnic cleansing, you could say, like PT6A, "yes they are antisemitic, and this is horrible, but they are the only military force outside Hamas opposing Israel." Instead you are continually eager to explain away the antisemitism as a problem - resorting to ethnic cleansing denial and endorsing Nazi lies. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Dec 21, 2023 |
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Dec 21, 2023 00:45
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I don't see how "here's how you get to their position" is an endorsement of it. And I don't think it's as complicated as you're making it out to be. Israel is doing monstrous things while proclaiming that WE ARE JEWS. JEWS ARE DOING THIS. Their neighbors react with the idea that they don't like Jews, and the instigating post was like "Boo these men, they're antisemitic." Which honestly feels more like the pervasive both-sidesism that saturates this issue.
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Dec 21, 2023 02:47
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Pretty much the same as how the MIC exploits queer acceptance to further its imperial efforts. Its goals are monstrous, and queer people end up as ablative armor for those goals.
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Dec 21, 2023 02:56
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moths posted:Israel is doing monstrous things while proclaiming that WE ARE JEWS. JEWS ARE DOING THIS. Their neighbors react with the idea that they don't like Jews, and the instigating post was like "Boo these men, they're antisemitic." They "reacted" by violently driving all the Jews out of their country. You keep ignoring this part. The Houthi army drove an indigenous minority out of all the territory it controlled, out of sheer bigotry. Do you understand that this is bad? Ravenfood posted:You would also think that a slogan that specifically calls for death to two states and then does not call for death to Jews would make it pretty obvious that they are not calling for a genocide of all Jews, but I guess not. I never said they called for a genocide against all Jews. I said they've expressed hateful bigotry toward all Jews and committed ethnic cleansing against the Jews in Yemen, which is the documented reality Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Dec 21, 2023 |
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Dec 21, 2023 02:57
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Civilized Fishbot posted:You'd think "Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse the Jews" would make it pretty obvious that their vendetta against Jews is not limited to the ones in Israel, but I guess not. You would also think that a slogan that specifically calls for death to two states and then does not call for death to Jews would make it pretty obvious that they are not calling for a genocide of all Jews, but I guess not.
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Dec 21, 2023 03:00
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moths posted:I don't see how "here's how you get to their position" is an endorsement of it. The issue is more that the people in question do a lot more than just say 'we don't like Jews', and are the 'ethnically cleanse their Jews' type, which is why even Israel-hating Jews go "Actually no, we should not champion these people.' You don't have to work hard to downplay what they do so you can feel better about talking them up. They didn't merely 'antagonize' their Jewish population. Ravenfood posted:You would also think that a slogan that specifically calls for death to two states and then does not call for death to Jews would make it pretty obvious that they are not calling for a genocide of all Jews, but I guess not. Their motto does actually say 'A Curse Upon The Jews', and they ethnically cleansed their Jews, so mayyyybeeee I wouldn't try that argument.
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Dec 21, 2023 03:03
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I definitely think that asking whether this will actually be influential seems slightly daft. The Houthis appear to have successfully shut down the loving Suez Canal, which (as per the Ever Given blockage in 2021) will result in roughly $10 billion of financial losses per day, and military responses are likely to be expensive, unreliable, and operating on an unpredictable timeframe. This has raised huge and pressing questions about whether the world can afford the Gazan genocide to continue, because it's not obvious how else they can easily stop the entire planet (and the Middle East in particular) from bleeding money.
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Dec 21, 2023 03:38
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Darth Walrus posted:I definitely think that asking whether this will actually be influential seems slightly daft. The Houthis appear to have successfully shut down the loving Suez Canal, which (as per the Ever Given blockage in 2021) will result in roughly $10 billion of financial losses per day, and military responses are likely to be expensive, unreliable, and operating on an unpredictable timeframe. This has raised huge and pressing questions about whether the world can afford the Gazan genocide to continue, because it's not obvious how else they can easily stop the entire planet (and the Middle East in particular) from bleeding money. I think the way this ends is that America finally pulls the leash hard on Israel, and two days ago a group of moderate, intelligence-connected Democrats sent a letter to Biden urging him to do it, which makes me think/hope that the less-Zionist wing of intelligence is screaming loudly about this. And that's what intercept reporter Ryan Grim suggests. https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1737593410318659894 This is the whole letter: quote:
It feels horrible to have to hope for America to be forced to do the right thing but I think it's the most realistic way this ends other than Israel wiping out Gaza altogether. And the second most realistic is "Hamas gets a nuke or something." I don't think there's near enough friction in Israeli society to halt the collapse into a totally genocidal terror-state and it's a nuclear power backed by the biggest nuclear power so I don't think there's a real military that'll intervene against it. Which isn't to say that the Houthis laying naval seige to global trade isn't accelerating it, just that I think what it's accelerating is the US saying "okay, gently caress, even for us this is costing too much money and political bullshit, we are pulling the plug on you." Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Dec 21, 2023 |
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Dec 21, 2023 03:48
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Darth Walrus posted:I definitely think that asking whether this will actually be influential seems slightly daft. The Houthis appear to have successfully shut down the loving Suez Canal, which (as per the Ever Given blockage in 2021) will result in roughly $10 billion of financial losses per day, and military responses are likely to be expensive, unreliable, and operating on an unpredictable timeframe. This has raised huge and pressing questions about whether the world can afford the genocide to continue, because it's not obvious how else they can easily stop the entire planet (and the Middle East in particular) from bleeding money. I’ve only really questioned the reasoning for doing it as opposed to it being influential in some way. Though this isn’t nearly as costly as the time the Suez Canal closed for 8 years due to Israel.
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Dec 21, 2023 04:00
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Did the Houthis shut down the canal? I know stuff is rerouting but its still being used I thought?
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Dec 21, 2023 04:02
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Dandywalken posted:Did the Houthis shut down the canal? I know stuff is rerouting but its still being used I thought? in this case specifically, "shutting down" is a bit of a misnomer when the actual phenomenon is "shipping insurance for the canal is more expensive than just going around the horn of africa"
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Dec 21, 2023 04:09
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A big flaming stink posted:in this case specifically, "shutting down" is a bit of a misnomer when the actual phenomenon is "shipping insurance for the canal is more expensive than just going around the horn of africa" Huh? I can't imagine shipping insurance rates has changed within the week. And a quick search is coming up empty. Or do you mean something else with that line?
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Dec 21, 2023 04:17
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Dandywalken posted:Did the Houthis shut down the canal? I know stuff is rerouting but its still being used I thought? Yeah looking it up it’s not closed, but a buncha ships rerouted.
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Dec 21, 2023 04:18
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The Suez Canal is absolutely not closed. You can see some rerouting on the bottom right of the attached screenshot, but also the conga line going through the canal is very evident.
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Dec 21, 2023 04:25
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https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/red-sea-attacks-force-rerouting-vessels-disrupting-supply-chains-2023-12-18/quote:Several major freight firms -- including MSC -- have begun to sail around Africa instead, adding costs and delays which are expected to be compounded over coming weeks, according to industry analysts. The article is from 2 days ago, might have changed more since then. There's ways for them to increase insurance rates quickly, it seems. Also from that article: quote:Houthi attacks also pushed some firms to rethink connections with Israel. Taiwan's Evergreen Marine (2603.TW) said on Monday it had decided to temporarily stop accepting Israeli cargo. ummel fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Dec 21, 2023 |
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Dec 21, 2023 04:28
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ummel posted:https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/red-sea-attacks-force-rerouting-vessels-disrupting-supply-chains-2023-12-18/ Thank you for the link. However, to me, Barstad’s statement sounds like the proximity to the war over the past couple months is what’s raising the insurance premiums. Not the past week of Houthi interference in the Suez Canal. I’m trying to look up more details, but am coming up blank. Please post any sources if they include more details
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Dec 21, 2023 04:47
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Kalit posted:Thank you for the link. However, to me, Barstad’s statement sounds like the proximity to the war over the past couple months is what’s raising the insurance premiums. Not the past week of Houthi interference in the Suez Canal. This is insanely pedantic i cannot believe you are posting in good faith. The direct threat posed to shipping comes from the Houthis. The conflict in Gaza has not posed any threat to the canal in literally any other way
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Dec 21, 2023 05:03
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Kagrenak posted:It keeps sliding off because it doesn't matter whether Israel and Jewishness are equated - it doesn't excuse their antisemitism. If it were the state of France commuting the genocide we wouldn't excuse a group that had "A curse upon the French," as its slogan and drove the last few families of French people from their territory. Even though everyone can agree that the french people and the state of France are inherently linked culturally, presently and historically. When Ukraine was invaded by Russia you couldn't wade through discourse without references to Russian orcs and far worse than "curses" on the Rus. You should hear what some Algerians thought of the French as a people after having faced French extermination campaigns. Heck, Israel saw 695 of its civilians killed and civil society absolutely cannot stop the outpouring of anti-Palestinian, anti-Arab and anti-Muslim racism. It turns out that nationalism + war not a great mix when it comes to race relations. Now, none of the above examples excuse racism. But it's interesting to see that there's been more discourse on racism because of a patch on Houthi uniforms (while they target in the main Israeli shipping) in the latest few pages than there has been in the rest of the thread. punishedkissinger posted:This is insanely pedantic i cannot believe you are posting in good faith. The direct threat posed to shipping comes from the Houthis. The conflict in Gaza has not posed any threat to the canal in literally any other way Trying to think about alternatives in meaning but I cannot think of any other way shipping would have been affected. The only other possible explanation is that they might get shot at on the way to Haifa... but that has zero to do with bab al-mandab.
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Dec 21, 2023 05:06
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punishedkissinger posted:This is insanely pedantic i cannot believe you are posting in good faith. The direct threat posed to shipping comes from the Houthis. The conflict in Gaza has not posed any threat to the canal in literally any other way E: Nevermind, I found an article making a direct link between the early Houthi attacks and insurance already increasing: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/war-risk-insurance-rates-edge-up-after-surge-red-sea-ship-attacks-2023-12-04/ Kalit fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Dec 21, 2023 |
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Dec 21, 2023 05:12
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Kalit posted:I am posting in 100% good faith. Shipping insurance premiums have absolutely risen due to the war in Gaza: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-ship-industry-urges-government-help-with-jump-war-insurance-2023-11-02/ You're confusing global shipping with shipping to Israel. *global premiums are rising* because of the Houthis (first instance through Suez; second because of longer journeys) e: (for global shipping in Suez or formerly Suez routes) Hong XiuQuan fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Dec 21, 2023 |
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Dec 21, 2023 05:20
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