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Rewatching The Lazarus Experiment. I think the premise had a lot of potential which was wasted with Lazarus just becoming a Resident Evil monster.
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Dec 21, 2023 18:25
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Khanstant posted:I tried watching a show recently and after I gave it up, I went to look up all the Who actors I recognized and lol it was a Moffat show. I wasn't hooked so I looked up the synopsis and it read like a rejected Doctor Who script reworked into a mystery/cop show. Capaldi himself ended up being some kind of wobbly wobbly timey wimey timelooped immortal who was trying to correct the world based on knowledge from his repeating lives. Reckon all the murders is why it couldn't work on Who. Moffat produced that but didn't write on it, though there are a couple of lines that could have come from him. At one point they ask Capaldi "so how come you couldn't stop 9/11" and he says "I can't stop everything, I did stop 8/16 though" they say "what's that?" and he says "see?" Matinee posted:The Silence (species) had some interesting stuff going on, albeit with the feel of Moffat *really* trying to make the Weeping Angels lightning strike twice. (I liked the idea that they were some kind of archetype for Greys or Men In Black… very X-Files, love that kind of thing). The Silence: Please Doctor, have pity on us! Doctor: I have pity for you. E: describing DW monsters to my 7 year old, he thought the Weeping Angels sounded cool (kind of the "can only move when not observed" thing but also the way they reproduce via images) but wasn't impressed at the Silence being memory proof at all. I bet if he watched the drat episodes he'll be spooked tho I like to think of their appearance in Time Of The Doctor as their epilogue rather than their prologue. They were actually colonizing Earth and manipulating humanity, got kicked off the planet by the Doctor, and eventually the Papal Mainframe removed the "kill us all on sight" directive in exchange for the Silence doing penance as confessional priests. You can even get a good time loop out of it, with Kovarian using the confessional priests to fight against the Doctor, resulting in them committing the sin they were doing penance for in the first place. The destiny trap 2house2fly fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Dec 21, 2023 |
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Dec 21, 2023 18:32
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2house2fly posted:The Silence: Please Doctor, have pity on us! There's a McGann BF audio with Davros where he tries to take Eight to task for that and the Doctor just responds "Was I supposed to fret? 'Do I have the right?" OF COURSE I HAD THE RIGHT!", which I feel is an appropriate reaction to DAVROS trying to play that card.
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Dec 21, 2023 18:38
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Khanstant posted:I tried watching a show recently and after I gave it up, I went to look up all the Who actors I recognized and lol it was a Moffat show. I wasn't hooked so I looked up the synopsis and it read like a rejected Doctor Who script reworked into a mystery/cop show. Capaldi himself ended up being some kind of wobbly wobbly timey wimey timelooped immortal who was trying to correct the world based on knowledge from his repeating lives. Reckon all the murders is why it couldn't work on Who. This show does really slap to be fair (I mean I guess not for you, fair enough, but I loved it).
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Dec 21, 2023 18:55
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2house2fly posted:Moffat produced that but didn't write on it, though there are a couple of lines that could have come from him. At one point they ask Capaldi "so how come you couldn't stop 9/11" and he says "I can't stop everything, I did stop 8/16 though" they say "what's that?" and he says "see?" Capaldi was what I was hanging on for more than an episode but he was used very sparingly. I can hear Doctor version saying that in my head though. And re: Silence, I wonder what happens when they do kill the Silence, are they forgetting corpse cleanups too, or are they stepping around them wondering what that funny smell is before glancing and freaking out and then forgetting again? There's also got to be billions of people who did not or could not see the broadcast , plenty of Silence left chilling somewhere.
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Dec 21, 2023 19:01
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Matinee posted:What I never liked was the Doctor’s plan to defeat them by splicing in the “you should kill us all on sight” clip. Like, well done, Doctor, you’ve just weaponised every human born after 1969 to become unthinking and unwitting murderers of a sentient species, willing to pull a gun without a second’s thought. “The Man Who Never Would”, huh? Yeah, that resolution is really unpleasant. I'd say it was the most morally repugnant thing Moffat has made, but there's a depressingly large number of contenders for that title. I'm not bothered by the "hidden masters of the world" stuff because that's a trope that's as old as time. The reason racist conspiracy theories use it is because it is such a resonant story idea. Now, if they had other characteristics that leaned into racist archetypes then I might start having a problem. I can definitely feel the Silence as the dollar store version of the Angels, though it feels likely Moffat came up with the idea of "monster that does something when you can't see it" and then bounced a few ideas. The thing that worked about the Silence was dividing viewer knowledge from character knowledge and the tension that arises from that. When someone is in a scene going, "Oh no, a monster!" turns to run and then goes, "What was I doing again?", that's really effective.
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Dec 21, 2023 19:05
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One thing I did really like were the Silence wearing flawed versions of 60s suits. It gave them an interesting vibe that something was very off.
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Dec 21, 2023 19:18
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lines posted:This show does really slap to be fair (I mean I guess not for you, fair enough, but I loved it). I don't mean to criticize it as I'm not qualified having only seen up to 2 episodes. The performances were good, and the twist would've caught me off guard since I was looking for demons. I simply wasn't hooked in the moment enough to see it through and looking it up was amused at the abundance of familiar names and subject matter.
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Dec 21, 2023 19:19
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No spoilers for The Devil's Hour, but my biggest takeaway from the show was that Phil Glennister's character was such a believably lovely human being.
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Dec 21, 2023 19:56
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Warthur posted:Watching The Impossible Astronaut and whilst the episode-specific plot is grand I've got big issues with the season arc. I quite liked it, clunky as it is. It's the most thematically tight any run of any one Doctor has been, really, though Twelve's comes close because all he wanted to do was figure out if he was still a good man, and then in the end gets crushed under the weight of that concept some, but ultimately gets his happy ending. I love series 6 and can't understand why you all don't, as it might even by my favorite, but I got to binge it along with everything else and that might have a lot to do with it. Cleretic posted:I respect Christmas Carol, but my favorite christmas special will always be Last Christmas. Though this year, I've been pretty much watching 'em all. Out of order, too, which is way out of character for me.
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Dec 21, 2023 20:33
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Open Source Idiom posted:No spoilers for The Devil's Hour, but my biggest takeaway from the show was that Phil Glennister's character was such a believably lovely human being. ... Is he *in* it? I'm not sure he is. Do you mend Alex Ferns' character?
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Dec 21, 2023 20:54
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lines posted:... Is he *in* it? I'm not sure he is. Do you mend Alex Ferns' character? Nah, my bad, I was thinking of Phil Dunster's character.
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Dec 21, 2023 21:10
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Series 6 was in an uncomfortable place where it felt like it was trying to balance a serialised story arc with fun standalone episodes, and both suffered as a result. Every episode had some nod to the questions raised in the opening 2-parter, but they just re-acknowledged the question rather than progressing the arc in any way. Eventually the arc progresses itself, and as fun as Let's Kill Hitler is I hate how it resolves the kidnapped child arc. I was gratified when Amy brought up in the finale that she's never going to get her daughter back and did something emotionally understandable to the person responsible. It also nags at me that the Silence wanted to assassinate the Doctor at Lake Silencio specifically, but did nothing to lure him there. He just decided to go there of his own accord because he knew he was supposed to. That even gets referenced in the finale too when Kovarian says "why can't you just die" and the Doctor says "did my best, I showed up". I probably like series 7 better (though I'm not a big fan of either series tbh) for largely ditching the metaplot stuff, and the standalone episodes seem to have a higher hit rate, though that's subjective. Also subjective is that I love Jenna Coleman
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Dec 21, 2023 21:28
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The funny part about Kovarian, to me at least, is that she's never really resolved as a character. She gets killed in an alternate universe, but that doesn't matter because it's an alternative universe. So as far as the show's concerned she's still out there. But you can tell Moffat didn't give a poo poo about the character, really. In her final appearance she's just a cartoon witch. "Ewwwh kissing!"
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Dec 21, 2023 21:47
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At the time, having loved series 5 (still my favourite season of nu who) I thought season 6 was... Okay. Like overall fine, theres some good episodes in there, but I couldnt shake the feeling that Moffat had produced the season of Who he'd been planning since he was a kid and in the process had used up all his ideas. Part of that is just it suffering by comparison, coming on the heels of my favourite season, I felt overall better about it on a rewatch a few years later. The overall meta plot is kind of bleh, but the overall average episode equality is still pretty good regardless. Actually I think I might like it more than S7 (but less than S8).
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Dec 21, 2023 21:55
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I think S7 is still the nadir of pre-Chibster Who. The majority of the episodes just felt like…”Welp that was 45 minutes of Doctor Who, how many more of these do we gotta make before we can start the 50th special?”.
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Dec 21, 2023 22:16
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Open Source Idiom posted:Nah, my bad, I was thinking of Phil Dunster's character. Oh my god what an utter -- yes I know what you mean. Great stuff.
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Dec 21, 2023 22:21
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S7 and S10 both feel really obligatory to me, the former Moffat trying to not gently caress it up for the anniversary year, and the latter is like a collection of B-sides playing because Chibnall wasn't available at the moment. S6 is at least ambitious, even if it falls on its face in several places.
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Dec 21, 2023 22:21
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Hard disagree on S10, it's extremely good, feels like a new lease on the show and honestly has me disappointed Capaldi hung it up because that premise and cast could've carried 2-3 more seasons easily.
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Dec 21, 2023 22:31
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I enjoyed all of Capaldi’s seasons, but yeah S10 technically should have been his schtick from the beginning.
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Dec 21, 2023 22:34
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I'm aware I'm in the minority on S10, it just feels kind of tossed-off and high-concept in a way that none of Moffat's other series do. Some of the ideas are good (what if there's a spaceship falling into a black hole so time moves slower at one end? what if the Doctor tried to turn the Master good?) and some of them just don't (what if we did a four-parter but not really?). The other series have pretty strong throughlines, but S10 really only has the Missy stuff which comes and goes, and the four-parter, the interconnected-ness of which makes each individual part worse. David Bowie has some killer B-sides, but by definition they can't really flow into each other.
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Dec 21, 2023 22:51
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Found out that my vague memory of S6 had rewritten The Wedding of River Song to be a two parter, and now I'm baffled that they didn't make it one given what a natural cliffhanger the Doctor not getting shot is. I feel like the stuck, time-crashed alternate universe is a very cool concept that's wasted in the tiny space it's given -- both in terms of runtime and being mashed together with a grab bag of other half-developed ideas. RTD was on the money about the importance of staying focused in his commentary on Wild Blue Yonder. Also decided to spend an evening watching The War Games, which is an interesting contrast -- a setting that's fleshed out really well within the bumper 10 episodes spent on it. Hopefully we'll get more multi-parters in future.
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Dec 22, 2023 00:47
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IIRC Moffat was aiming to invert the structure of a typical series with 6, so it opens with a finale-like two-parter and ends with a single story. The all time happening at once this was kind of neat, but after the S5 finale did something similar I don't know if it was needed in a story with a lot going all already. That's the bit with the weird Katie Couric cameo because DW got featured on the Today show, right?
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Dec 22, 2023 01:07
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I like the bit with the Doctor and Churchill talking then one of them smells gunpowder and they look down and Churchill's holding a gun and the Doctor has a spear. The Silence were fun sometimes.
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Dec 22, 2023 01:17
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HD DAD posted:I enjoyed all of Capaldi’s seasons, but yeah S10 technically should have been his schtick from the beginning. I dunno Capaldi's first season felt a bit rough, not because of him mind you but the dynamic didn't work and it the plot seems to want to gently caress Clara extra hard for reasons.
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Dec 22, 2023 01:35
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Zohar posted:Found out that my vague memory of S6 had rewritten The Wedding of River Song to be a two parter, and now I'm baffled that they didn't make it one given what a natural cliffhanger the Doctor not getting shot is. I feel like the stuck, time-crashed alternate universe is a very cool concept that's wasted in the tiny space it's given -- both in terms of runtime and being mashed together with a grab bag of other half-developed ideas. RTD was on the money about the importance of staying focused in his commentary on Wild Blue Yonder. Moffat is a better writer than a showrunner. As a way of proving this, he decided that two-parters cost more and did away with them to save budget. A severely misplaced instance of Scottish thrift
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Dec 22, 2023 02:04
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Clara had it bad, has any other companion been killed as much as her? Sure they like sort of undid it eventually but as soon as they gave her a life again they started loving that up too.
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Dec 22, 2023 02:07
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2house2fly posted:Moffat is a better writer than a showrunner. As a way of proving this, he decided that two-parters cost more and did away with them to save budget. A severely misplaced instance of Scottish thrift I thought he was initially behind them because they cost less, but then did a woeful amount of overspending on them anyway so decided not to do that anymore.
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Dec 22, 2023 02:08
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That has me thinking, I wonder which episode of modern Who cost the least. I’m sure it’s something like Midnight.
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Dec 22, 2023 02:14
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Love and Monsters maybe? It barely has the doctor and the main expense would have been the suit that makes Peter Kay look like a human.
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Dec 22, 2023 02:30
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Boxturret posted:Love and Monsters maybe? It barely has the doctor and the main expense would have been the suit that makes Peter Kay look like a human. Nah, they have that Hoxx monster at the start, and it has an articulated jaw prosthetic that would have cost them. And it's not clear whether the regulars get paid less for episodes they only cameo in. Almost definitely Midnight.
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Dec 22, 2023 02:39
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Khanstant posted:Clara had it bad, has any other companion been killed as much as her? Sure they like sort of undid it eventually but as soon as they gave her a life again they started loving that up too. Still laugh every time I think of NPH's face after he says,"She was killed..... by a bird!"  https://i.imgur.com/IwXJftp.mp4
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Dec 22, 2023 02:39
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Warthur posted:Just tell good, self-contained stories and then end the season with another good, self-contained story. I guarantee that in the parallel universe where RTD didn't introduce series-long arcs to Doctor Who, nobody is feeling like the series is missing anything major by their absence because, just like in this timeline, people care more about individual stories than season arcs anyway. They did this in Season 7 and it sucked. They also did this in Season 11 and it sucked there as well. It turns out that when you don't connect each episode by a story through-line, they all end up feeling like filler. I think the issue I have with the "series arc" is that it let the showrunner get away with ignoring the flow of one episode into another. RTD could just stick in a few references to Harold Saxon or Bad Wolf and neglect to have one story directly impact the story after it. That is to say, the ideal structure for a season in my eyes is one without an arc, consisting of entirely self-contained stories, but where character moments have an impact into the following episodes. The Doctor and Companions should remember lessons they learn in Ancient Greece and apply them in Ganymede 2560 AD, but those two locations obviously shouldn't have any story connection. Similarly, if the Companion leaves Ancient Greece annoyed at the Doctor over something that happened in Ancient Greece, they should still be angry in Ganymede 2560. What instead happens is that a series villain is hinted at in Ancient Greece and shows up in Ganymede 2560 AD, which makes exactly zero logical sense and shrinks the universe of Doctor Who to the size of a pin. Moffat annoyingly aligned with my vision sometimes, but only in specifically annoying and terrible examples. The end of Flesh and Stone is an infamously bad character moment, but I like how it results in the Doctor basically forcing Rory into the Tardis in the next episode. He did this again in Kill the Moon, which I thought resulted in a really clever and subtle betrayal of Clara by the Doctor in the next episode. The end of Kill the Moon makes the Doctor's trip to the Orient Express an 'apology adventure' to Clara, which makes it all the more devastating when we learn the Doctor deceived Clara into thinking it was safe. That wouldn't be so interesting a choice if we hadn't seen Clara's anger at the end of Kill the Moon, as we get an opportunity to see the Doctor lean into danger when he expressly shouldn't have. However, this example also sucks because Kill the Moon sucks. It sucks so hard that I can't buy Clara's outburst at the end. It's sad too because Clara and the Doctor nearly embodied this dynamic perfectly but Arc Stuff just kept interrupting them. I just want this kind of thing to happen between two good episodes!!
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Dec 22, 2023 02:49
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Jerusalem posted:Still laugh every time I think of NPH's face after he says,"She was killed..... by a bird!" There’s something in his reaction that suggests the Toymaker is receiving this information on the fly, and his reacting is genuine bemusement on what he’s discovering.
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Dec 22, 2023 02:50
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I love his disgusted/enraged "WELL THAT'S ALL RIGHT THEN" when the Doctor keeps trying to say "it wasn't as bad as all that"
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Dec 22, 2023 03:04
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I love that the Doctor is kind of wrong-footed because the proper answers to how his companions are actually all right then are just so long and convoluted that he has to give these mealy-mouthed replies. "Bill was killed by the Cybermen!" "Ok, well, yes, but, er... so we met this weird water elemental space traveling creature that is the person that she was before she became an alien but also kind of isn't, and..." edit: also because we're never going to stop saying it is it too late to change the thread title to Doctor Who: OH WELL THAT'S ALL RIGHT THEN
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Dec 22, 2023 03:10
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Open Source Idiom posted:The funny part about Kovarian, to me at least, is that she's never really resolved as a character. She gets killed in an alternate universe, but that doesn't matter because it's an alternative universe. So as far as the show's concerned she's still out there. It feels like Kovarian is one of the things that would've been properly addressed in Smith's fourth season.
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Dec 22, 2023 03:17
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Kinda wish Kovarian had been in Time Of The Doctor instead of Tasha Lem. Have the Doctor grimace and say "hello Madame Kovarian" and her be shocked that he knows her name. I wonder if the actress wasn't available or if Moffat just wanted a more cheeky and flirty character for Matt Smith to play off. Will we ever know...
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Dec 22, 2023 03:22
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I think I completely missed that she had a name at all lol, the whole end of that plot is a big blur in my mind.
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Dec 22, 2023 03:31
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I felt like Madame Kovarian overstayed her welcome as soon as she stopped being the season-long mystery. Once she was more than the face in the door staring at Amy it was like Moffat just said "gently caress it, steroytype cackling evil older woman"
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Dec 22, 2023 03:34
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