|
Grassy Knowles posted:The point I was alluding to but didn’t make is that I found folks who were working in 3+ languages to be the last of the Blackberry/physical keyboard holdovers Yeah I didn't even consider phones in my comment, I was more in the thread context. So with a computer keyboard you don't really look at the keys and you can switch between mappings in your head if you use them enough.
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2023 14:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 03:46 |
|
|
lobsterminator posted:And even with physical keyboards there are not many actually different keyboard layouts. Just different mappings. I can easily swap between FI/SE and US layouts. And Mac vs PC layouts. Even if the physical keyboard remains the same. Is the Swedish Apple layout as weird as the Norwegian one? We have e.g. /|\ on shift+7, option+7, and shift+option+7, and it always takes me a moment when helping someone with a Mac write code.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2023 15:11
|
|
|
Computer viking posted:Is the Swedish Apple layout as weird as the Norwegian one? We have e.g. /|\ on shift+7, option+7, and shift+option+7, and it always takes me a moment when helping someone with a Mac write code. Yeah I think so. When you try a US layout you can see how all programming languages were designed to be efficient on that layout. With a Nordic layout you need two or three keys for most of the non-letter characters.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2023 15:15
|
|
|
I was specifically thinking physical keyboards and different alphabets: Some people here use Hebrew, Arabic, English and Russian which are very different from one another, add Chinese or something and our theoretical linguist couldn't possibly fit all the characters on a single keyboard!
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2023 18:11
|
|
|
lobsterminator posted:Yeah I think so. What? Pressing AltGr 7 for { is so convenient, it's got to be what they had in mind.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2023 20:01
|
|
|
lobsterminator posted:Yeah I think so. You are totes right A relative unknown Danish computer scientist named Bjarne Stroustrup made a language called C++ which is just FILTHY with characters around that area. What was he thinking?!? 
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 03:33
|
|
|
EVIL Gibson posted:You are totes right He was in the US when he started working on C++, I think - so it's likely he was using a US keyboard. Besides, he was sort of tied down by it being a set of macros on top of C in the beginning. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 04:07
|
|
|
Computer viking posted:He was in the US when he started working on C++, I think - so it's likely he was using a US keyboard. Besides, he was sort of tied down by it being a set of macros on top of C in the beginning. Imagine in bizarro world he decides to stick with the Danish keyboard. "No parentheses or curly brackets anywhere. Everything that needs to be surrounded must use " [ ]" as those characters aren't absolute poo poo to get to."
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 04:33
|
|
|
What about the language makes it better on US layout keyboards?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 07:10
|
|
|
Arivia posted:Who is that in the bottom image? He looks really familiar. It's the protagonist from the movie Brazil (1985)
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 11:17
|
|
|
Cojawfee posted:What about the language makes it better on US layout keyboards? Here's a Danish keyboard layout:  And a Norwegian one:  Notice the awkward AltGr keypresses for square and curly brackets, especially. I actually like the dot/colon, comma/semicolon and hyphen/underscore layout, but they're probably less easy to hit than the US equivalents. And yeah, I have also thought about what a language invented by someone who only knew and used this layout would be like. Section signs and currency symbols (§ and ¤) would probably be core syntax in a Norwegian-designed language, since they're easy to type but extremely unlikely to show up in identifiers. Pipes, too. Normal (brackets) are no worse than on a US layout and make a lot of sense visually, so they'd probably still be common. The only example I can think of is that BASIC on the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_80 I had in the early 90s used ¤ instead of $ to tag string variables.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 13:27
|
|
|
Computer viking posted:
Fun thought experiment. <> would be in a bigger role also as they are very convenient.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 13:37
|
|
|
Let me tell you about templates
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 13:44
|
|
|
The currency symbol ¤ is apparently exotic enough that it can gently caress up some modern passwords. Accidentally used it on a vm, and spent a while figuring out why we couldn't connect to it remotely. (The windows server supported it, but not the remote-access-without-public-ip solution.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 13:53
|
|
|
Yeah, it’s not part of the standard 0-127 ASCII so using it means you are at the mercy of whatever encoding scheme is in the path between your keyboard and the hashing function
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 15:08
|
|
|
I'm sure you all were drowning in pussy with your typing speeds
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 15:14
|
|
|
Star Man posted:I'm sure you all were drowning in pussy with your typing speeds Us ladies appreciate someone with good digital control. I understand why you wouldnt have this knowledge
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 15:15
|
|
|
Na mang, my cats were considarate enough to avoid sleeping on my airways.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 15:16
|
|
|
Star Man posted:I'm sure you all were drowning in pussy with your typing speeds when my grandmother took typing classes in high school only girls were allowed to sign up for it and a bunch of parents melted down when they started allowing boys during the 50s, suddenly that makes more sense
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 15:42
|
|
|
ymgve posted:Yeah, it’s not part of the standard 0-127 ASCII so using it means you are at the mercy of whatever encoding scheme is in the path between your keyboard and the hashing function That's why utf was so loving badass. It saved so much headaches for those with more elegant lettersets
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2023 19:23
|
|
|
Star Man posted:I'm sure you all were drowning in pussy with your typing speeds My response is always "all right, I guess I do not need to remember this later" and I stop paying attention because like, sorry I cannot take written shorthand like you apparently think your audience should
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 03:24
|
|
|
From our family to yours,
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 07:22
|
|
|
I hadn't noticed the thread title (and I'm assuming it's pointing at me), but I am looking for 1Ghz Slot 1 P3s part number SL4BS if anyone has them for cheaper that serverworld - their freight price to Oz is waaaay out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 07:36
|
|
|
Not a tech relic but it's funny from someone that did a lot of presentations across the country It's almost 2024 and Japan is the only place in the world where you can get a brand new 13th gen laptop with a DVD writer AND a VGA connector from 1987 HDMI ports to screens at random companies just refuse to work with random HDMI/HDMI converters (HDCP  )
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 08:01
|
|
|
Yes, gently caress HDCP utterly worthless except to cost me money over the years bypassing it
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 08:05
|
|
|
Code Jockey posted:Yes, gently caress HDCP My secret is discovering that super cheap HDMI splitters remove HDCP without either device noticing. It's finding the right model that's the problem. Buy a few from Amazon, check them, and then return the ones that didn't work. The ones you want are more common than the ones that don't
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 08:09
|
|
|
EVIL Gibson posted:Not a tech relic but it's funny from someone that did a lot of presentations across the country I love it, I love VGA.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 08:26
|
|
|
EVIL Gibson posted:Not a tech relic but it's funny from someone that did a lot of presentations across the country No 3.5 floppy drive, no sale.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 08:51
|
|
|
ymgve posted:No 3.5 floppy drive, no sale. No serial port either. Ain't worth it without a proper 16650 UART in it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 08:52
|
|
|
I was recently asked if I knew of a working PC or laptop with a serial port on it from a guy who needed to interface with an older PLC unit for a wood chip boiler. Was kinda urgent because it wasn't working and temps where -15. Apparently they had tried USB-serial emulators without success.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 08:57
|
|
|
Huh, that's weird. In my experience, USB to serial converters are indistinguishable from PCI/PCIe or ISA/SuperIO serial ports as far as software is concerned. It's the USB to parallel ports adapters that are a load of crap, because they show up as printers rather than generic parallel ports. However, the PCIe parallel port cards I tried all work, even the weird ones that clearly are using a made-up vendor ID and are actually serial devices that take commands that toggle/read the pins. Of course you need to get the drivers from websites or discs that look like they have concerningly-high concentrations of viruses by volume.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 09:08
|
|
|
EVIL Gibson posted:My secret is discovering that super cheap HDMI splitters remove HDCP without either device noticing. yep, this is the move! I've got a bunch
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 09:08
|
|
|
BattleMaster posted:Huh, that's weird. In my experience, USB to serial converters are indistinguishable from PCI/PCIe or ISA/SuperIO serial ports as far as software is concerned. Hmmm maybe it was a parallel port they needed, I might be mis-remembering. Did they still use parallel ports for circa 2000 era stuff?
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 09:18
|
|
|
His Divine Shadow posted:I was recently asked if I knew of a working PC or laptop with a serial port on it from a guy who needed to interface with an older PLC unit for a wood chip boiler. Was kinda urgent because it wasn't working and temps where -15. https://www.amazon.com/Industry-Portable-Computer-Notebook-Graphics/dp/B07QYZHM8F/
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 09:21
|
|
|
His Divine Shadow posted:Hmmm maybe it was a parallel port they needed, I might be mis-remembering. Did they still use parallel ports for circa 2000 era stuff? In that era USB to serial gizmo drivers and/or chipsets were often buggy. IIRC it wasn’t until ~2008 or so that those things would Just Work. Drivers and chips unchanged since from what I can tell.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 09:25
|
|
|
Buy an old thin client with an rs232 port and wifi, then install linux on it to have a permanent headless serial gateway. Alternatively search "rs232 fanless pc" on aliexpress and buy one of the many, many cheap industrial pc options they have, like https://aliexpress.com/item/1005003330185279.html But really any old raspberry pi with a usb to serial adapter should work, I use adapters to get to the serial console on my switches and to monitor a couple old APC UPS units and it's been rock solid once you find an adapter that isn't garbage. [e] i use tio for connecting to serial consoles, it's much more straightforward than minicom https://github.com/tio/tio r u ready to WALK has a new favorite as of 11:29 on Dec 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 09:39
|
|
|
Remulak posted:In that era USB to serial gizmo drivers and/or chipsets were often buggy. IIRC it wasn’t until ~2008 or so that those things would Just Work. Drivers and chips unchanged since from what I can tell. Yeah in the early-mid 00s I dealt with sourcing laptops with serial ports for various people who needed them because it was a pretty well documented fact that usb-serial at the time was an absolute crapshoot for just about every application that came through the door.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 09:41
|
|
|
His Divine Shadow posted:I was recently asked if I knew of a working PC or laptop with a serial port on it from a guy who needed to interface with an older PLC unit for a wood chip boiler. Was kinda urgent because it wasn't working and temps where -15. A while back I had a boss that was too cheap to buy the $15 USB to serial cable so I dug up some ancient laptop to use as a terminal. You could probably find a used laptop at a thrift store or eBay.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 16:16
|
|
|
RVWinkle posted:A while back I had a boss that was too cheap to buy the $15 USB to serial cable so I dug up some ancient laptop to use as a terminal. You could probably find a used laptop at a thrift store or eBay. USB<>Serial cables are almost always junk and that was probably the right choice
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 16:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 03:46 |
|
|
I've had issues with USB adapters for programming old Motorola radios, ended up having to read schematics and the 68HC11 serial bootloader manual to work out the root cause. A real 16C550 (or emulated SuperIO equivalent) will happily do all kinds of weird baud rates if you can work out the right clock dividers. But e.g. a CH340 chip only does standard rates so when asked to do 7200 baud it would run at 9600 IIRC.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2023 16:53
|
|
