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DarkHorse posted:Wasn't the original expectation/intent that there'd be a lot of revision, that the Constitution would be a living document? Beyond just constitutional conventions and such, I think I remember reading discussion about making a recurring meeting set every 20 years so people would have a chance to adjust things every generation. Jefferson was the champion of the idea of re-newing or revising it ever 19-20yr but no one else wanted that. They thought it'd be too much trouble. The "living document" part is just that it was open to amendment via votes in Congress and the states which is still true to day. Its just that the vote thresholds are high enough that pulling it off is basically impossible today.
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Dec 22, 2023 00:45
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Also Common law is supposed to offer quite a bit of deference to judicial interpretation and state decisis, which essentially serves to iron out issues with flowery language or misinterpretation because if a law isn't clear it will either not matter or will wind up in a court case where a judge will offer an interpretation of the law. This will usually involve a fair dose of intelligent common sense and awareness of how the law fits with the whole body of the law. If the result is wrong, it gets over turned by a higher or later court, if it's correct but unacceptable the law is amended. The whole issue of archaic interpretation would not have been seen as a problem because I doubt the people writing the constitution would have considered that in 200 years there would be wholly novel legal questions that didn't have 2 centuries of legal tradition informing how to interpret the law. The idea that a judge would basically throw all of that out and instead start combing through 18th century dictionaries would probably have seemed insane. The obvious answer would have been that in these cases the correct approach would be to write new laws i.e overwrite the second amendment to put in place a new, individual right to own guns with a clear demarcation of what is and isn't permissible rather than creating bullshit reasoning as to why assault rifles are a-ok but machine guns aren't
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Dec 22, 2023 01:29
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Too bad we're saddled with a legislature both structurally incapable and temperamentally uninterested in legislating.
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Dec 22, 2023 01:42
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DarkHorse posted:Wasn't the original expectation/intent that there'd be a lot of revision, that the Constitution would be a living document? Beyond just constitutional conventions and such, I think I remember reading discussion about making a recurring meeting set every 20 years so people would have a chance to adjust things every generation. I'll let you decide who makes the better argument for that: quote:former U.S. Supreme Court Justice William J. Brennan Jr.’s 1985 speech at Georgetown University made a case for living constitutionalism. Where originalists believe that the meaning of the Constitution is fixed at the time it was written and discernible in the present, living constitutionalists insist that the meaning of the document can evolve in response to changing societal perceptions and demands.
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Dec 22, 2023 02:07
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FMguru posted:I've long suspected that every single person who meets Trump is struck by how profoundly stupid he is in person, and that Trump is a dumb fool who will be easy to manipulate to their benefit ("Surely, I can handle and/or get over on this idiot"), so much so that it overrides their caution and their willingness to look at the track record of literally every single other person who has done business with Trump. This makes the most sense out of anything I’ve heard about trump And he is a dumb motherfucker he just is willing to go where other people think “hah, he can’t get out of this one!”
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Dec 22, 2023 02:10
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The Mich tape is real. Trump recorded pressuring Wayne County canvassers not to certify 2020 vote quote:Then-President Donald Trump personally pressured two Republican members of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers not to sign the certification of the 2020 presidential election, according to recordings reviewed by The Detroit News and revealed publicly for the first time.
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Dec 22, 2023 02:56
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I wonder why Ronna McDaniel (Who everyone forgets is Mitt Romney's neice ) has not been indicted at all for the 2020 stuff?
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Dec 22, 2023 03:00
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Svaha posted:I'll let you decide who makes the better argument for that: That the originalist have set themselves up as some sort of priest that divines the original intent, not based on commonly accepted historical practice but their own genius, of people dead 200 plus years is absolutely insane. Here is a legacy of interpretation thoroughly vetted at intervals across the centuries of how to apply these concepts to the modern day. No? You’re not going to use that? You’re just going to make poo poo up? On, you looked in a period dictionary? Uh, I didn’t know that was an option…
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Dec 22, 2023 03:09
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Cimber posted:I wonder why Ronna McDaniel (Who everyone forgets is Mitt Romney's neice ) has not been indicted at all for the 2020 stuff? The most charitable interpretation is that Smith is getting Trump out of the way before going after the sundry. We’ll see. Edit: I think we know that there is still at least one DC grand jury issuing requests and subpoenas for financial documents? Murgos fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Dec 22, 2023 |
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Dec 22, 2023 03:12
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Cimber posted:I wonder why Ronna McDaniel (Who everyone forgets is Mitt Romney's neice ) has not been indicted at all for the 2020 stuff? She should find herself a nice Mitney to marry.
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Dec 22, 2023 03:22
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haveblue posted:The president commands the military but is not himself part of the military and doesn't have a military rank; commander-in-chief is his role but that's not the same thing Problem being it's not a majority of the country that backs this. Trump voters were 22% of eligible voters in 2016 and he lost the popular vote by over 3 million votes despite winning the electoral college.
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Dec 22, 2023 08:35
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Cimber posted:Is there anyone who hasn't hitched their wagon to Trump who hasn't gotten screwed massively? Jesus, Rudy used to be on top of the world, now look how far he's fallen. Jared Kushner, maybe? He was already rich prior to marrying Ivanka, but is considerably richer now. I think he's done with politics, though whose decision that is (his, Ivanka's, or both) is up for debate.
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Dec 22, 2023 08:56
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I'd probably feel comfortable resting on my laurels too, after bringing peace to the Middle East.
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Dec 22, 2023 10:31
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Combed Thunderclap posted:It’s worthy to note the 3 dissenters bailed on the initial jurisdictional questions of whether or not Colorado could adjudicate the federal Constitution so it’s not quite as split on the substance of the case as we might think. Thanks for bringing this up. It is a persuasive argument in my opinion. Also other posters (whose posts I am too feverish from influenza to comb up) who argued that most of the republican justices are institutionalists (or w/e that term was. Fever, again) and also have a selfish interest in protecting their power so they might vote against Trump. So yeah, there is some hope. On the other hand, Congress also has a vested interest in protecting their own power, but the republican congresspeople just seem content to handing their power on Trump. On the other hand, Trump can pressure them through the electorate. The justices can't be pressured through that. Iirc only by impeaching them out of the court they could be hosed with. Sorry for the rambling, but it seems like there are many factors at play here and now I'm wondering if it's a complete toss-up and could go either way.
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Dec 22, 2023 10:57
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Shooting Blanks posted:Jared Kushner, maybe? He was already rich prior to marrying Ivanka, but is considerably richer now. I think he's done with politics, though whose decision that is (his, Ivanka's, or both) is up for debate. To be honest that's more because he's similarly a teflon failure like Trump - look at his tenure of 666 5th Avenue where he just constantly pissed away money until he was bailed out during the Trump administration. And past politics despite him being considered toxic by his former socialites in New York he is solvent thanks to the Saudis. Trump couldn't ruin Kushner because Kushner was already a mini-Trump. As for Trump's reverse Midas touch I still think back to this video every now and again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpA2jiDTYVY
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Dec 22, 2023 11:28
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Shooting Blanks posted:Jared Kushner, maybe? He was already rich prior to marrying Ivanka, but is considerably richer now. I think he's done with politics, though whose decision that is (his, Ivanka's, or both) is up for debate. Done with politics you say? That would be interesting if Donald had no one in the WH if he won that was his family. Perhaps he only wants to stay president long enough to pardon himself then resign.
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Dec 22, 2023 14:27
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Cimber posted:Done with politics you say? That would be interesting if Donald had no one in the WH if he won that was his family. With this pack of grifters "done with politics" can be interpreted as "running away when poo poo gets bad". If big, wet daddy wins I'm sure they'll develop a taste for politics again just in time to be handed a top secret clearance, dozens of patents from China and a cool 2 billy from Saudi Arabia so they can bring peace to the middle east and so on.
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Dec 22, 2023 14:38
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Followup on that Substack article I shared. A bit more Colorado specific than the last one. The author clerked for Scalia so decent SCOTUS bonafides.quote:Is the Supreme Court seriously going to disqualify Trump? (Redux) https://open.substack.com/pub/adamunikowsky/p/is-the-supreme-court-seriously-going-40f?r=3lifg&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
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Dec 22, 2023 14:39
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Murgos posted:The most charitable interpretation is that Smith is getting Trump out of the way before going after the sundry. Maybe he wanted to get Trump into court and hopefully convicted or at least tarnished to a point that he wouldn't get back into office. Jack Smith's efforts to be fast about this is refreshing after Garland slept on all of it for a year or whatever it was.
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Dec 22, 2023 14:58
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smackfu posted:Followup on that Substack article I shared. A bit more Colorado specific than the last one. The author clerked for Scalia so decent SCOTUS bonafides. Thanks for this, it is excellent analysis.
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Dec 22, 2023 15:52
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Wasn't the Supreme Court supposed to make a decision by the 20th of December on something Trump related? Did I miss it or did they just not do it?
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Dec 22, 2023 16:04
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Nitrousoxide posted:Wasn't the Supreme Court supposed to make a decision by the 20th of December on something Trump related? Did I miss it or did they just not do it? No, they had demanded Trump respond on the 20th to Smith's request for expedited hearing and skipping the appeals court. That response was a laugh riot Cimber fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Dec 22, 2023 |
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Dec 22, 2023 16:25
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smackfu posted:Followup on that Substack article I shared. A bit more Colorado specific than the last one. The author clerked for Scalia so decent SCOTUS bonafides. I appreciated his previous article, and I appreciate you linking to this update. Particularly helpful for me is this section; quote:Section 3 applies to future presidents (paragraphs 129-43). Section 3 forecloses certain insurrectionists from being a “Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President,” or “holding any office, civil or military, under the United States.” Trump argues that the presidency isn’t an “office … under the United States,” because only officers who are under the President are “under the United States.” So, the argument goes, an insurrectionist can’t be Postmaster General, or Deputy Secretary of Agriculture, or Inspector General of the FCC, because those are all “offices … under the United States.” but it’s OK for him to be President. because the 'Trump isn't an officer' argument has been driving me crazy and I'm relieved to see there is solid reasoning available to argue that no such argument holds. Whether it convinces the SCOTUS, well, who can say, but at least it's being persuasively stated.
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Dec 22, 2023 20:49
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Supreme Court is turning down Jack Smith's request to fast-track a hearing on Trump's claims of immunity from federal prosecution. May mean a delay in the trial before Chutkan: https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/22/politics/supreme-court-trump-immunity-jack-smith/index.html
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Dec 22, 2023 21:10
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quote:“Under” refers to the fact that the officer is exercising the authority of the United States, not that the President is the human incarnation of the United States and that all other officials in the executive branch are “under” him.
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Dec 22, 2023 21:15
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MonkeyOnFire posted:Supreme Court is turning down Jack Smith's request to fast-track a hearing on Trump's claims of immunity from federal prosecution. May mean a delay in the trial before Chutkan: One of the most amazing things about Trump's relative success is how little courage it often takes to stop him and how few people seem to have any at all. Like, Mike Pence of all people stopped January 6th.
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Dec 22, 2023 21:19
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MonkeyOnFire posted:Supreme Court is turning down Jack Smith's request to fast-track a hearing on Trump's claims of immunity from federal prosecution. May mean a delay in the trial before Chutkan:  (Japan)/KICK THE CAN/KICK THE CAN.png)
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Dec 22, 2023 21:19
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https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1738282088468746365 Lede for people without Twitter: "All this does is kick things back to the D.C. Circuit, which is already set to hear argument on January 9—and will likely rule soon thereafter." It'll doubtless end up before the SC after that so there's not much point in wailing and rending garments over this.
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Dec 22, 2023 21:54
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No dissents either. Think they all just said “gently caress off it’s Christmas.”
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Dec 22, 2023 22:03
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1738282088468746365 I'm not so sure it will go to the SC after. It certainly will be appealed to them by one party or the other, but knowing the moral courage of this SC I'd think it very likely that they refuse to grant cert if the DC court overrules Trump's immunity claim. I'm guessing that by the end of January we'll be back on track for the trial, and Smith is pushing hard to keep the schedule. I'd imagine that this will only delay things for a few weeks at most.
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Dec 22, 2023 22:03
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Tayter Swift posted:No dissents either. Think they all just said “gently caress off it’s Christmas.” Let the appeals court write up the arguments and then deny cert is the cleanest way for them to avoid the dirt. However, if they do end up in front of SCOTUS I hope smith has the balls to put Ginnie somewhere in there.
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Dec 22, 2023 22:16
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Tayter Swift posted:No dissents either. Think they all just said “gently caress off it’s Christmas.” Yeah, Thomas is busy stealing all the toys in Whoville.
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Dec 22, 2023 22:23
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Like, Mike Pence of all people stopped January 6th. Only after he called Dan Quayle.
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Dec 22, 2023 22:27
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Presto posted:Only after he called Dan Quayle. It should be noted that he called Quayle asking how he could do the ballot coup and when pre-eminent legal scholar Dan Quayle was unable to give him a pathway, he knew there was nothing to be done.
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Dec 22, 2023 22:29
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Tesseraction posted:It should be noted that he called Quayle asking how he could do the ballot coup and when pre-eminent legal scholar Dan Quayle was unable to give him a pathway, he knew there was nothing to be done. Well, I for one am glad Dan Quayle found true purpose in his life, after all those years. Everyone deserves a chance to shine once in their life. Even Dan Quayle.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:13
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Gotta say I was not expecting a DDR song jacket to appear in this particular thread
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Dec 22, 2023 23:26
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single-mode fiber posted:Gotta say I was not expecting a DDR song jacket to appear in this particular thread Saving this country will require all types of revolutions.
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Dec 23, 2023 00:24
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Tesseraction posted:It should be noted that he called Quayle asking how he could do the ballot coup and when pre-eminent legal scholar Dan Quayle was unable to give him a pathway, he knew there was nothing to be done. That is why he was going to wimp out and let Grassley preside over the count. Up until Jan 5, no one expected Pence to show up and Grassley would throw it back to the states. I took Pence's Marine son to call him a candy rear end for Pence to show up.
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Dec 23, 2023 02:59
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Realistically speaking, when do you think the supreme court will decide on that presidential immunity thing?
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Dec 23, 2023 03:20
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John Yossarian posted:Realistically speaking, when do you think the supreme court will decide on that presidential immunity thing? They won't. They are going to take the cowards way out and refuse to grant cert when the DC appeals court denies Trumps claim.
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Dec 23, 2023 03:53
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