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(Thread IKs: PoundSand)
 
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Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Glumwheels posted:

Why, after Covid, are we still gate keeping treatments for anything? There’s a RSV vaccine, why is still only available to infants and elderly? Why not immunocompromised folks too or really any little kid?

It’s not a surprise RSV is bad around this time of year and the vaccines were approved in May. Why did no one do anything to ramp production so it’s available along with flu, covid, etc?

Five Pinocchios! You can also get it if you’re pregnant and get it within the window of thirty‐two to thirty‐six weeks.

The technocrat line is that the vaccines were not trialled in other demographic groups.

This response hides the truer answer: it was deemed unprofitable to market vaccines to most adults, so no money was spent in including them in the trials.

:capitalism:

Platystemon has issued a correction as of 05:05 on Dec 23, 2023

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Complications
Jun 19, 2014

Glumwheels posted:

Why, after Covid, are we still gate keeping treatments for anything? There’s a RSV vaccine, why is still only available to infants and elderly? Why not immunocompromised folks too or really any little kid?

It’s not a surprise RSV is bad around this time of year and the vaccines were approved in May. Why did no one do anything to ramp production so it’s available along with flu, covid, etc?

international capitalism has learned that if the proles get anything, they'll expect more

give them nothing, and they'll just bow their heads and work

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



Steve Yun posted:

hey you know that 9 month cruise I posted about a couple days ago?

you’re not gonna believe this, but

https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7315573144062922026

It's an experiment to see how many times the same strain of covid can infect a population. It's not possible to test in the real world because it mutates so quickly.

Glumwheels
Jan 25, 2003

https://twitter.com/BidenHQ

Platystemon posted:

Five Pinocchios! You can also get it if you’re pregnant and get it within the window of thirty‐two to thirty‐six weeks.

The technocrat line is that the vaccines were not trialled in other demographic groups.

This response hides the truer answer: it was deemed unprofitable to market vaccines to most adults, so no money was spent in including them in the trials.

:capitalism:

That’s right, a friend who’s pregnant got it too. However, our old nanny had a kiddo and she’s under 1 but cant get it.

It’s just loving…..capitalism I guess.

I’ve never seen our son this bad with coughing so it must be his first bout of RSV. He just keeps coughing with maybe a 30 second break and nothing stops it.

Gravid Topiary
Feb 16, 2012


so apparently those green Rapid Response test kits they gave away up here in Canada suck poo poo even as far as RATs go?
COVID test supplier received billions in pandemic contracts after submitting edited results

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003


quote:

In the confusion, most Canadians likely had no notion that, under laws governing medical devices, a product’s importer may call itself its manufacturer, or that importing a test from abroad is a form of “manufacturing.”

Leaders on both sides of the aisle advocated for local manufacturers.

On April 29, 2020, Opposition leader Andrew Scheer told Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in the House of Commons that Health Canada should approve BTNX’s antibody test.

Trudeau, in turn, praised BTNX as “an innovative Canadian company that had moved forward with a world-class product.”

Absolutely perfect, incredible, no notes.

Ihmemies
Oct 6, 2012

Glumwheels posted:

Why, after Covid, are we still gate keeping treatments for anything? There’s a RSV vaccine, why is still only available to infants and elderly? Why not immunocompromised folks too or really any little kid?

It’s not a surprise RSV is bad around this time of year and the vaccines were approved in May. Why did no one do anything to ramp production so it’s available along with flu, covid, etc?

Pronably the same reason that in Europe you can’t even get covid vaccines thanks to public healthcare! Some public healthcare bean counter determined that the vaccines don’t bring enough cost-benefit when given to everyone. So they are gatekeeped to the extreme in order to cut costs.

As an extra lol It is apparently cheaper to trash billions worth of vaccines in Europe than to give them to people.

Shady Amish Terror
Oct 11, 2007
I'm not Amish by choice. 8(
Catching up a bit and hey, glad for the cool posters sticking around, but it's definitely understandable to take breaks or step away if you want/need to. To paraphrase a post I recall seeing in one of the mental health threads, 'SA, the forums made by Lowtax for edgy teens decades ago, is not and can probably never be a safe space. Act accordingly.' My personal angle on this is that it was nice to vent about my personal health stuff in prior threads, but that also clearly invited some of the worst harassment of the thread, so :shrug:

sonatinas posted:

on cvs today the in store ad went like this:

“ the pandemic is over (yay!)
but covid is still here (boo!)”

the amount of apex cognitive dissonance experienced in the last couple weeks has not been surprising but at the same time really sad.

I am unironically amused by the acceptance of doublespeech as super-textual rather than subtextual. The convenient lie and the inconvenient truth can exist together in the same loving sentence and that's just marketing.

ThatBasqueGuy posted:

what flavors go best with my mister tho, butter popcorn could be cool

I don't know if this was an intentional reference, but for anyone who might not know it got an actual laugh out of me because

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...wave%20popcorn. posted:

“Popcorn lung” is another name for bronchiolitis obliterans (BO), a rare condition that results from damage of the lungs’ small airways. BO was originally discovered when popcorn factory workers started getting sick. The culprit was diacetyl, a food additive used to simulate butter flavor in microwave popcorn.

and

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colorado-man-wayne-watson-wins-7-million-in-popcorn-lung-lawsuit/

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003
I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.
Soiled Meat
edit: update



don’t trust anyone

Steve Yun has issued a correction as of 09:58 on Dec 23, 2023

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?
Not a particularly surprising result, but now you know. If your kidney is already busted, getting COVID is very bad for you, particularly if you are on immunosuppressive medicine.
"The impact of SARS-CoV-2 infection on renal function in patients with biopsy-proven kidney diseases"

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0296168 posted:

Abstract
Background
We sought to evaluate the long-term effects of COVID-19 on renal function in patients with biopsy-proven kidney diseases.

Methods
A total of 451 patients with biopsy-proven kidney disease and at least 12 months of follow-up subsequent to COVID-19 pandemic onset were included in the study. The primary study endpoint was a composite of a persistent decline of more than 30% in eGFR or ESRD.

Results
23.1% of patients had COVID-19 during a follow-up period of 2.5 y (0.8–2.6), while 17.6% of patients reached the composite endpoint. Those with COVID-19 were more likely to reach the composite endpoint [26.7% vs. 14.8%; OR, 2.1 (95%CI, 1.23–3.58), p = 0.006). There was a significant eGFR change in the first year of follow-up between the two study groups [-2.24 (95%CI,-4.86; 0.37) vs. +2.31 (95%CI, 0.78; 3.85) ml/min, p = 0.004], with an adjusted mean difference of -4.68 ml/min (95%CI,-7.7; -1.59)(p = 0.03). The trend for worse renal outcomes remained consistent in patients with IgAN, MN and FSGS, but not in those with LN. After multivariate adjustment, the independent predictors of the composite endpoint were baseline eGFR (HR, 0.94; 95%CI, 0.92–0.95), COVID-19 (HR, 1.91; 1.16–3.12) and male gender (HR, 1.64; 95%CI, 1.01–2.66). In multivariate linear regression analysis, COVID-19 independently determined a reduction of eGFR at 12 months by 4.62 ml/min/1.73m2 (β coefficient, -4.62; 95%CI, -7.74 to -1.5, p = 0.004).

Conclusions
There is a significant impact of COVID-19 on long-term renal function in patients with biopsy-proven kidney diseases, leading to a greater decline of eGFR and a worse renal survival.
(..)

Fig 3. Renal survival.

A) Entire cohort. B) Entire cohort, in relation to immunosuppression. C) Patients with pre-COVID-19 pandemic kidney biopsy. D) Entire cohort, in relation to the severity of COVID-19.

(..)

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?
"Antibody response and risk of reinfection over two years among the first wave of COVID-19 patients"

https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/article/S1198-743X(23)00625-0/fulltext posted:

Abstract
Objectives
To describe the dynamics and factors related with natural and hybrid humoral response against the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) and risk of reinfection among first wave patients.

Methods
A prospective longitudinal study with periodic serological follow-up after acute onset of all recovered patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection cared in Udine Hospital (March-May 2020). Nucleocapsid (N) protein and spike receptor-binding domain (S-RBD) antibody tests were used to distinguish natural and vaccine induced response.

Results
Overall, 153 patients (66 men, mean age 56 years) were followed for a median of 27.3 (IQR 26.9-27.8) months. Seroreversion was 98.5% (95% CI 96.8-99.4) for SARS-CoV-2-N IgM at 1 year and 57.4% (95% CI 51.5-63.5) for SARS-CoV-2-N IgG at 2 years. Initial serological response (HR 0.99, 95% CI 0.99-0.99, p=0.002 for IgM and HR 0.97, 95% CI 0.97-0.98, p<0.001 for IgG) and severity of acute infection (HR 0.62, 95% CI 0.39-0.96, p=0.033 for IgM and HR 0.60, 95% CI 0.37-0.99, p<0.001 for IgG) were independently associated with persistent SARS-CoV-2-N IgM/IgG response. Older age and smoker status were associated with long-term SARS-CoV-2-N IgM and SARS-CoV-2-N IgG respectively (HR 0.75, 95% CI 0.57-0.98, p=0.038; HR 1.77, 95% CI 1.19-2.61, p=0.004 respectively). All patients maintained SARS-CoV-2-S-RBD IgG response at 24 months follow-up. Reinfections occurred in 25/153 (16.3%) patients, mostly during the omicron circulation. Reinfection rates did not differ significantly between SARS-CoV-2-N IgG seronegative and seropositive patients (14/89, 15.7% vs 10/62, 16.1%, p=0.947). Unvaccinated patients had higher risk of reinfection (4/7, 57.1% vs vaccinated 21/146, 14.4%, p=0.014).

Conclusions
First wave patients had durable natural humoral immunity in 40% and anti-S-RBD response in 100% up to two years after infection. Natural humoral response alone was not protective against reinfections with omicron SARS-CoV-2 variants, whereas vaccination was effective to reduce the risk of a new infection.

The first part is expected imho; infection in the first wave does not protect against infection. Their conclusion that vaccination status has an impact is on a very shaky foundation (7 in the unvaccinated cohort, give me a break) and I don't think it is categorically true (rather I think this is likely down to whatever the reason is they didn't get vaccinated or potentially why they got reinfected - e.g. too frail to get it or getting reinfected before vaccines due to a poorly functioning immune system), as it doesn't make much sense.

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?
Found a graph for RSV from the US (specifically Rhode Island).
:thunk:
When was the immune loan taken out again?

j/k, I can see the small decrease 2020-2021. Seems the issue is less the loan and more the interest. Next time don't take out the loan from an immune loan shark. Simple as.

Edit to add the article through which I found it, as I originally was going to post that, until I got distracted:

https://www.wpri.com/health/busting-at-the-seams-ri-hospitals-overflowing-with-covid-flu-and-rsv-patients/ posted:

‘Busting at the seams’: RI hospitals overflowing with COVID, flu and RSV patients
(..)
“We are busting at the seams, really,” Dr. Joe Lauro, an emergency physician and president of the R.I. American College of Emergency Physicians, told Target 12.

Lauro, who works at Newport and Miriam hospitals, said the influx is caused by a few things, including the prevalence of respiratory viruses, including COVID, flu, and respiratory syncytial virus, also known as RSV. The trend is resulting in an “unprecedented” amount of boarding, meaning patients are being held in the emergency department, often in hallways, while awaiting an inpatient bed.

“We just can’t see patients fast enough, as fast as we’re capable of doing,” Lauro said.

Lauro said that anywhere from 12 to 24 patients could be seen in one emergency room bed in the course of 24 hours, depending on the severity of the illness.

“So that contributes to the longer wait times,” he added. “The reality of it is, and it’s of course dependent on the size of the hospital and location, the reality is that you’re going to be waiting a while.”

Part of why boarding levels are higher may be due to a staffing shortage, particularly with nursing jobs. He said it’s led to patients who need to be discharged and sent to a nursing home or skilled nursing facility can’t get in quickly enough.
(..)
“I don’t think anybody is scared anymore,” Lauro said. “I think it’s just part of their daily living. They don’t want to stop doing what they’re doing because of this.”
(..)
:crnasickos:

Archived link: https://archive.vn/rpwfg

Pingui has issued a correction as of 12:52 on Dec 23, 2023

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?
It is a bit difficult to figure out the exact status of COVID in India as the testing is so lackluster, so while the increase is eye-bleeding, keep in mind that the level of testing is somewhere between gently caress and all.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-sees-covid-surge-again-752-new-cases-4-related-deaths-in-24-hours-4726872 posted:

India Reports 752 New Covid Cases, More Than Double Of Yesterday's Figure
The active cases in India today stand at 3,420, adding 423 cases to yesterday's figure of 2,997, showed the health ministry dashboard.

I think the Union government managed to entirely suppress a wave in the spring, so the apparent fact that they can't this time is probably a more important signal than the nominal numbers.

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?
:britain: Good for them. Everyone should ask these questions.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/22/nhs-given-warning-about-infection-control-as-covid-cases-rise posted:

NHS given warning about infection control as Covid cases rise
Exclusive: Royal College of Nursing asks why WHO guidance on masks and respirators has not been introduced across UK
(..)
To tackle the increase, the WHO advised that all health facilities “implement universal masking” and give health workers “respirators and other PPE”.

Now the RCN [ed. The Royal College of Nursing] has written to the four chief nursing officers in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland asking why this guidance has not been introduced across the NHS.

The letter, seen by the Guardian, points out that existing guidance in the national infection prevention and control manual (NIPCM) does not mandate hospital staff to use masks. It also leaves decisions about respirators to local risk assessors.

The RCN says this guidance to UK hospitals is “inconsistent” with WHO advice.

The letter by Patricia Marquis, the RCN’s director for England, calls for urgent revision to the NIPCM guidance to ensure the “universal implementation” of masks and respirators for health workers.

Marquis wrote: “I am mindful of the current unsustainable pressures on the health service, with … a rise in cases and hospitalisations with Covid-19, alongside other respiratory viruses in general circulation. I am concerned that without proper protections ill-health and sickness will continue to rise in nursing staff and impact on their ability to deliver safe and effective patient care.”

She added: “We are also concerned about the increased risks to patients from hospital-acquired respiratory infections.”

Marquis also raised the issue of ventilation in hospitals. She said: “We also have concerns about the adequacy of ventilation in general ward and outpatient areas within hospital buildings and believe that action must be taken to assess and improve this.”
(..)

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?
Concerning prior discussion of the increase in wastewater potentially not being congruent with the apparent number of cases, here is a piece considering the option of a inherent JN.1 change towards gut infection. I think this a likelier option than co-infections, but there isn't really anything indicating that this is the case, beyond "where are the hospitalizations??".

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-21/surging-jn-1-variant-in-wastewater-spurs-questions-about-covid-gut-tropism posted:

Does Covid Prefer The Gut Now? Surging Virus Detections in Wastewater Prompt Scientific Debate
  • JN.1, a variant of interest, fuels Covid surge in US, Europe
  • Virus seeks out receptor common on gut cells, scientist finds
Spiking Covid-19 cases detected in wastewater have prompted some scientists to ask whether JN.1, the strain driving an explosive winter surge, is selectively targeting peoples’ intestinal tracts.

The evidence is extremely limited and theoretical, and there’s no data suggesting that more people are experiencing severe digestive illnesses from Covid. Yet there’s no question that the coronavirus has changed its requirements for entering cells, said Sydney virologist Stuart Turville. This may be consistent with more efficient infection of particular tissues including the gut.

It’s just one of the many debates swirling around JN.1. The variant is so highly infectious and immune evasive that some scientists believe it needs its own Greek name to separate it from its highly infectious progenitor, omicron.

“Its mode of entry has diverged significantly from what we saw in 2020,” said Turville, whose University of New South Wales lab has been tracking viral entry pathways since the start of the pandemic. “It’s presently the peak of this trajectory.”
(..)
Detections in wastewater have uniformly and exponentially increased in multiple countries, including Austria, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland and Singapore.

“People are detecting it in wastewater at as high a rate as they were detecting omicron when it first emerged,” said Kanta Subbarao, director of the WHO Collaborating Centre for Reference and Research on Influenza in Melbourne, who chairs the agency’s technical advisory group on Covid vaccine composition. “But so far, we’re not seeing a parallel or concomitant increase in hospitalization. I think we have to watch that space.”
(..)
The wastewater findings could reflect high circulation in communities, rather than more frequent or more intense gut infections that result in greater or prolonged shedding of the coronavirus in stool.

Diarrhea wasn’t more frequently reported by Covid sufferers as of November in the Netherlands, which has tracked symptom data since 2020.
(..)
Even if disease patterns aren’t substantially altered by JN.1, the virus is definitely taking a new pathway into cells, according to Turville. While past versions have preferentially latched onto a cleaved version of the ACE-2 cell-surface protein, the new variant represents the coronavirus’s strongest predilection yet for an uncleaved version of the cellular doorway.

“I can’t see it getting any further than JN.1,” Turville said. “JN.1 is so extreme. The key now is to understand how this translates into what tissue niches it now inhabits.”

Archived link: https://archive.vn/1lVkb

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

quote:

“I can’t see it getting any further than JN.1,” Turville said. “JN.1 is so extreme.”

Lmao @ witnessing SARS-CoV-2 dunk on us like it’s the Harlem loving Globetrotters and being unable to imagine it shooting one more bucket from downtown

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?
Absolutely devastating. Now on the one hand this is from a long COVID clinic, so you would expect the cohort to be more severe cases of PASC, on the other hand this is from a long COVID clinic, so these people are actually being treated.
"Long COVID patients continue to experience significant symptoms at 12 months and factors associated with improvement: a prospective cohort study in France (PERSICOR)"

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(23)00798-1/fulltext posted:

Highlights
• Long COVID patients tend to have persistent symptoms at 12-month
• At 12-month only 8.7% of Long COVID patients are in complete remission
• There is profound impact on daily life, work and daily activities
SARS-CoV-2 antibodies prior to vaccination appears to be linked with better recovery [ed. this result is interesting; it is potentially down to variants]
• Ageusia is associated with reduced chances of improvement at 12 months


Abstract
Objective
This study examines long COVID symptoms course over 12-months, their impact on daily life, and associated factors for symptom relief.

Methods
A prospective cohort study included 231 participants with long COVID at 12-months follow-up. Data on characteristics, symptom course and remission were collected using questionnaire and a remission scale. Poisson regression models were used to estimate the prevalence rate ratio (PRR) and 95% confidence intervals (CIs) for factors associated with symptom improvement.

Results
Of the 231 participants, 63.2% developed SARS-CoV-2 antibodies before COVID-19 vaccination. At 12-months, only 8.7% (95% CI: 5.4%-13.1%). reported complete remission, while 28.6% noted significant improvement. Most symptoms remained prevalent: asthenia (83.1%), neurocognitive/neurological (93.9%), cardiothoracic (77.9%), Musculoskeletal (78.8%). During long COVID, 62.2% stopped working, and only 32.5% resumed full-time professional activities. Presence of SARSCoV-2 antibodies before vaccination increased the probability of improvement (aPRR: 1.60, p=0.028), while ageusia at initial long COVID phase decreased the probability (aPRR: 0.38, p=0.007).

Conclusion
Long-COVID symptoms persisted in the majority of participants after 12-months, with significant impacts on daily life and work. SARS-CoV-2 antibodies were associated with better prognosis, while persistent ageusia indicated a lower probability of improvement. These findings highlight the need for ongoing support and care for individuals with long-COVID.

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?
Buddy. You don't need to do anything, never did.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/do-i-need-to-worry-about-covid-anymore-223424342.html posted:

COVID is still out there. Do you need to worry about it anymore?
(..)
Do I need to worry?
It depends. “This is not a one-size-fits-all type of level of concern,” infectious disease expert Dr. Amesh Adalja, senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, tells Yahoo Life. “However, people should be thinking of COVID as very similar to all of the other endemic respiratory viruses that circulate year in and year out.”
(..)
Adalja says that we’re getting closer to the baseline of what COVID will look like “in perpetuity,” making this a virus people need to learn to live with.COVID has the most tools to use against it when compared to other respiratory viruses,” he says.

What can I do about it?
Adalja stresses that SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, is “unavoidable.”
(..)

Don't read the comments!

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?
Not COVID, but pretty cool development on the pestilence front:
"Discovery of a structural class of antibiotics with explainable deep learning"

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06887-8 posted:

Abstract
The discovery of novel structural classes of antibiotics is urgently needed to address the ongoing antibiotic resistance crisis. Deep learning approaches have aided in exploring chemical spaces; these typically use black box models and do not provide chemical insights. Here we reasoned that the chemical substructures associated with antibiotic activity learned by neural network models can be identified and used to predict structural classes of antibiotics. We tested this hypothesis by developing an explainable, substructure-based approach for the efficient, deep learning-guided exploration of chemical spaces. We determined the antibiotic activities and human cell cytotoxicity profiles of 39,312 compounds and applied ensembles of graph neural networks to predict antibiotic activity and cytotoxicity for 12,076,365 compounds. Using explainable graph algorithms, we identified substructure-based rationales for compounds with high predicted antibiotic activity and low predicted cytotoxicity. We empirically tested 283 compounds and found that compounds exhibiting antibiotic activity against Staphylococcus aureus were enriched in putative structural classes arising from rationales. Of these structural classes of compounds, one is selective against methicillin-resistant S. aureus (MRSA) and vancomycin-resistant enterococci, evades substantial resistance, and reduces bacterial titres in mouse models of MRSA skin and systemic thigh infection. Our approach enables the deep learning-guided discovery of structural classes of antibiotics and demonstrates that machine learning models in drug discovery can be explainable, providing insights into the chemical substructures that underlie selective antibiotic activity.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

quote:

“However, people should be thinking of COVID as very similar to all of the other endemic respiratory viruses that circulate year in and year out.”

Yeah except for the whole burying more people in January than the rest do all year thing.

Our tools are weak in comparison to the threat. Claiming that they’re the best is like “your antitank guns are the most powerful guns in the arsenal”. It’s just a piece of trivia if you’re fielding guns from 1934 in 1944.

And also if the rest of your arsenal categorically blows. Being better than flu vaccines and Oseltamivir is a low bar, let alone RSV vaccines and mAbs that no one can get.

Our tools against whooping cough are way better, but it’s caused by a bacterium, not a virus. Loophole!

P.S.: Good luck getting the tools for COVID nine days from now!

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?
Making the case for why mucosal/nasal vaccines would be a potential game changer, this study demonstrates an inverse relationship between viral shedding and the level of spike-specific secretory-IgA antibodies and how quickly they rise. Enjoy the graph porn :wiggle:
"Infectious virus shedding duration reflects secretory IgA antibody response latency after SARS-CoV-2 infection"

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2314808120 posted:

Significance
Understanding the factors that influence human-to-human transmission of SARS-CoV-2 (severe acute respiratory syndrome-coronavirus-2) is crucial for controlling the pandemic. Additionally, identifying the immune pathways that regulate infectious virus shedding from individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2 is essential for estimating the inter-individual virus transmission risk, as infectious viral shedding from SARS-CoV-2-infected individuals is considered a useful surrogate for estimating the risk of human-to-human transmission. This study investigated the impact of mucosal antibody responses on the prevention of infectious virus shedding in individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2. Our findings establish the clinical significance of mucosal antibodies on prevention of respiratory viruses’ transmission, which would provide the impetus for the development of technologies to control future pandemics caused by respiratory viruses.

Abstract
Infectious virus shedding from individuals infected with severe acute respiratory syndrome-coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) is used to estimate human-to-human transmission risk. Control of SARS-CoV-2 transmission requires identifying the immune correlates that protect infectious virus shedding. Mucosal immunity prevents infection by SARS-CoV-2, which replicates in the respiratory epithelium and spreads rapidly to other hosts. However, whether mucosal immunity prevents the shedding of the infectious virus in SARS-CoV-2-infected individuals is unknown. We examined the relationship between viral RNA shedding dynamics, duration of infectious virus shedding, and mucosal antibody responses during SARS-CoV-2 infection. Anti-spike secretory IgA antibodies (S-IgA) reduced viral RNA load and infectivity more than anti-spike IgG/IgA antibodies in infected nasopharyngeal samples. Compared with the IgG/IgA response, the anti-spike S-IgA post-infection responses affected the viral RNA shedding dynamics and predicted the duration of infectious virus shedding regardless of the immune history. These findings highlight the importance of anti-spike S-IgA responses in individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2 for preventing infectious virus shedding and SARS-CoV-2 transmission. Developing medical countermeasures to shorten S-IgA response time may help control human-to-human transmission of SARS-CoV-2 infection and prevent future respiratory virus pandemics.
(..)

Prediction of virus isolation by nasal anti-spike S-IgA titer against Omicron variants: (A) Dynamics of viral load and anti-spike antibodies in nasal swabs in the days following diagnosis or onset of COVID-19 in SARS-CoV-2 Omicron-infected cases. Mean ± 95% CI of viral RNA load (Top), infectious viral titer (Middle), and anti-spike antibody titers against the Omicron BA.1 variant (Bottom) are shown. Dotted lines indicate the detection limits. For the viral RNA load and viral titer, individual data points are displayed. (B) Correlation between nasal antibody titers and serum antibody titers for symptomatic cases with matching collection dates against the Omicron BA.1 variant. Regression lines with 95% CIs, Pearson correlation R values, and P values are shown. (C) Comparison of viral RNA load in samples that are positive or negative for viral isolation among PCR-positive samples. (D) Comparison of nasal IgG, IgA, and S-IgA against the ancestral strain and BA.1 variant spike in samples that are positive or negative for viral isolation. Titers between the positive and negative samples were compared using unpaired t tests. (E–G) Verification of the accuracy of cut-off values estimated using logistic regressions. The areas and dots represent the predictive value and viral isolation test outcomes, respectively. Vertical and horizontal lines indicate cut-off values as shown in SI Appendix, Fig. S1D. Pearson correlation R values, and P values are shown. (H) Logistic regression analysis of virus isolation-test positive samples, considering nasal anti-BA.1 spike antibody titers. Forest plot showing OR and 95% CI. Statistical significance: ns, not significant; *P < 0.05; **P < 0.01; ***P < 0.001; ****P < 0.0001.
(..)

Quantification and characterization of the dynamics of viral RNA shedding: (A) Illustration of parameters (Table 1) derived from virus dynamics related to time and amount. (B) The measured values of individual viral RNA dynamics in the respiratory samples obtained from the FF100 cohort. (C) The reconstructed individual-level viral RNA dynamics based on mathematical modeling. Black and gray colors correspond to the viral loads calculated from the FF100 and NBA cohorts, respectively. (D) Correlation between the features extracted from the reconstructed individual-level viral RNA dynamics. Regression lines with 95% CIs, Pearson correlation R values, and P values are shown. (E) Association between the infectious virus shedding period and the features extracted from the reconstructed individual-level viral RNA dynamics. Correlation between post-onset time to viral isolation negative (TISO) and onset viral load (VO), peak viral load (VP), duration of culturable viral RNA shedding (DCVS), and duration of symptomatic period (DSP) are shown, respectively. (F) Multiple regression analysis of the infectious virus shedding period (TISO), including the features extracted from the reconstructed viral RNA dynamics. Forest plot showing regression coefficients and 95% CI. Statistical significance: ns, not significant; *P < 0.05; **P < 0.01; ***P < 0.001; ****P < 0.0001.
(..)

Relationship between nasal anti-spike S-IgA response latency and dynamics of virus shedding: (A) Time-series patterns of viral RNA load (blue), IgG (green), IgA (orange), and S-IgA (pink) for total patients are shown. Lines indicate cross-sectional averages from each group, with shading representing 95% CI and colored accordingly. (B) Illustration of time-related parameters derived from S-IgA dynamics. Details of the parameters are shown in Table 1. (C) Correlations between time to viral isolation negative after diagnosis/onset and each of the following: Antibody response latencies after diagnosis/onset (LIgG, LIgA and LS-IgA), time to PCR negative after diagnosis/onset, and duration of symptomatic period are shown, along with its multiple regression analysis (D). Regression lines with 95% CIs, Pearson correlation R values, and P values are shown. Forest plot showing regression coefficients and 95% CI. (E) Correlations between post-onset S-IgA response latency (LS-IgA) and each of the following parameters: onset viral load (VO), peak viral load (VP), and duration of culturable viral RNA shedding (DCVS). (F) Multiple regression analysis of LS-IgA, including the features extracted from the reconstructed viral RNA dynamics. Statistical significance: ns, not significant; *P < 0.05; **P < 0.01; ***P < 0.001; ****P < 0.0001.
(..)

thuly
Jun 19, 2005

Transcending history, and the world, a tale of MS Paint and animes, endlessly retold.
Dipshit sister's dipshit baby daddy got hit and now they're all sick. The hospital is at 100%+ occupancy for normal, peds, and ICU. They probably won't need it but fuuuuck.

Her doctor said she could come to Christmas if she was feeling well enough lmfao. That's why your hospital is full you dumbass.

Weighing trying to move Christmas vs just doing it without them. They have a new baby (1st grandchild this generation) and so get to manage dipshit sister and doting mimaw with diabetes and RA.

The holidays are just so exciting these past few years!

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer
so you're telling me we may finally have the actual tools we need soon? god willing

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?

Platystemon posted:

Yeah except for the whole burying more people in January than the rest do all year thing.
(..)

Claim: Article says COVID is very similar to other respiratory illnesses.
Fact: Article says you should be thinking COVID as very similar to all of the other endemic respiratory viruses.

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?

spiritual bypass posted:

so you're telling me we may finally have the actual tools we need soon? god willing
:confused:

3-for-2 appetizer's have been around for years.

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?
These are some pretty interesting results. On the face of it, they look like any other Paxlovid study, but note that the cohort is comparatively very young (age 29.10 ± 7.34 years old):
"Impact of Paxlovid on in-hospital outcomes and post-COVID-19 condition in adult patients infected with SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant: A non-randomized controlled clinical trial"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38134107/ posted:

Abstract
Background: Nirmatrelvir plus ritonavir (Paxlovid) have been used in the treatment of adult patients with mild-to-moderate coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). This study aimed to evaluate the impact of Paxlovid on in-hospital outcomes and post-COVID-19 condition in Chinese adult patients infected with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) Omicron variant.

Methods: This non-randomized clinical controlled trial recruited patients infected with SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant from the designated hospital for treating COVID-19 between November 5 and November 28, 2022, in Shijiazhuang, China. Participants were administered Paxlovid (300 mg of nirmatrelvir and 100 mg of ritonavir orally) or standard treatment. The primary outcome was the nucleic acid shedding time and post-COVID-19 condition.

Results: A total of 320 patients infected with SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant were included, with mean age of 29.10 ± 7.34 years old. Two hundred patients received Paxlovid. Compared to patients in the standard treatment group, those in Paxlovid group had a significantly shorter nucleic acid shedding time (3.26 ± 1.80 vs 7.75 ± 3.68 days, P < .001), shorter days until negative swab test (1.74 ± 1.15 vs 5.33 ± 2.91, P < .001), shorter days of first symptoms resolution (4.86 ± 1.62 vs 7.45 ± 2.63, P < .001), higher in nucleic acid test negative rate within 3 days [138 (70.77%) vs 14 (11.67%), P < .001], higher negative rate within 5 days [174 (89.23%) vs 26 (21.67%), P < .001], negative rate within 7 days [185 (94.87%) vs 78 (65.00%), P < .001], and were less likely to have post-COVID-19 condition [32 (18.60%) vs 30 (31.57%), P = .016]. There was no significant difference in duration of post-COVID-19 condition (43.00 ± 26.00 vs 49.00 ± 26.34 days, P = .354) between the 2 groups.

Conclusion: Compared to standard treatment, Paxlovid significantly reduced nucleic acid shedding time, days until negative swab test, and days of first symptoms resolution, as well as improved nucleic acid test negative rate and post-COVID-19 condition.

Oracle
Oct 9, 2004

sonatinas posted:

same and my kid has started as well. not sure if my spouse has had a reaction to it because her immune system is in the tank right now but these articles illustrating how probiotics are working for you are pretty wild. just reading that new article you posted is nuts to think about or the other one talking about how the oral bacteria flow to the lungs. seems like this is the poo poo people who wrote sci fi didn’t see coming.

this backs up a lot of other studies showing a link between oral hygiene and other diseases like heart disease and blood infections as well. Bacteria from the mouth being inhaled and getting into the bloodstream may well be a cause of a lot of health issues. ‘Brush and floss’ going to be the next ‘wash your hands.’

no lube so what
Apr 11, 2021

Pingui posted:

:confused:

3-for-2 appetizer's have been around for years.

cdc unveils federally subsidized 2-for-1 appetizer campaigned

Cabbages and VHS
Aug 25, 2004

Listen, I've been around a bit, you know, and I thought I'd seen some creepy things go on in the movie business, but I really have to say this is the most disgusting thing that's ever happened to me.
Annoying / Scary personal anecdote

During COVID, our kids eyes got really gummy. They have had conjectivitus before but this seemed especially bad, and I ended up with it, as well (I was in close contact with them). No idea if just a COVID symptom, or a secondary infection, but I had a couple days where I woke up with my right eye basically sealed shut, had to wipe it and had blurry vision for a couple minutes; I saw a dr and used an antibiotic gel as a just in case. Hadn't thought about it since.

Last night I pulled a Ray Gun compendium book out. If anyone remembers the magazine, it had a Very 90s Hipster aesthetic and lots of 8-10 point font poo poo.

Anyway as I was reading, I realized that my vision in my right eye is significantly impaired; weird that it took me this long to notice since I'm right eye dominant, but the upshot is that if I am reading something like a magazine or a book with small print, my left eye can find focus and read it starting at about 8" out from my eye, and hold focus almost to the full extent of my extended arm.

At 8" where stuff looks as good as it ever has (this decade) in my left eye, it's a blurry loving shitshow on the right. If I go out another 2-3" I can find focus well enough to read it, but, barely. It's a night and day difference, I would struggle tremendously to read with that eye, and the other eye is no problem.

I am fairly certain this is directly related to that infection because I had a vision test about six months ago and got glasses, and at that time the determination was that I needed mild/moderate distance lenses but had no issues up close in either eye, and both eyes were the same.

Because I've got those results it will be pretty easy to go back and see if there's a change (there is) and figure out if it's something that can be addressed with glasses, but I'm pretty loving bummed; I feel like w/e we've been through here (COVID plus six other viruses, Sept - Present) has done demonstrable damage to my loving eyes, and, like, I need those to loving see?

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer

no lube so what posted:

cdc unveils federally subsidized 2-for-1 appetizer campaigned

means tested riblets

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?

Cabbages and Kings posted:

(..)
I need those to loving see?

Not where we're going you don't.

Cabbages and VHS
Aug 25, 2004

Listen, I've been around a bit, you know, and I thought I'd seen some creepy things go on in the movie business, but I really have to say this is the most disgusting thing that's ever happened to me.

Pingui posted:

Not where we're going you don't.

Ironically we watched the first half of this like a week before we got tagged with the death virus

e: if my vision is hosed and degrading I guess I don't need to be saving for a 4k projector and should instead be saving for a service animal?

DickParasite
Dec 2, 2004


Slippery Tilde

Cabbages and Kings posted:

e: if my vision is hosed and degrading I guess I don't need to be saving for a 4k projector and should instead be saving for a service animal?

We have the tools.

DickParasite
Dec 2, 2004


Slippery Tilde
Seriously tho that loving sucks. I hope your vision recovers OP.

Gravid Topiary
Feb 16, 2012

Cabbages and Kings posted:

Annoying / Scary personal anecdote

During COVID, our kids eyes got really gummy. They have had conjectivitus before but this seemed especially bad, and I ended up with it, as well (I was in close contact with them). No idea if just a COVID symptom, or a secondary infection, but I had a couple days where I woke up with my right eye basically sealed shut, had to wipe it and had blurry vision for a couple minutes; I saw a dr and used an antibiotic gel as a just in case. Hadn't thought about it since.

Last night I pulled a Ray Gun compendium book out. If anyone remembers the magazine, it had a Very 90s Hipster aesthetic and lots of 8-10 point font poo poo.

Anyway as I was reading, I realized that my vision in my right eye is significantly impaired; weird that it took me this long to notice since I'm right eye dominant, but the upshot is that if I am reading something like a magazine or a book with small print, my left eye can find focus and read it starting at about 8" out from my eye, and hold focus almost to the full extent of my extended arm.

At 8" where stuff looks as good as it ever has (this decade) in my left eye, it's a blurry loving shitshow on the right. If I go out another 2-3" I can find focus well enough to read it, but, barely. It's a night and day difference, I would struggle tremendously to read with that eye, and the other eye is no problem.

I am fairly certain this is directly related to that infection because I had a vision test about six months ago and got glasses, and at that time the determination was that I needed mild/moderate distance lenses but had no issues up close in either eye, and both eyes were the same.

Because I've got those results it will be pretty easy to go back and see if there's a change (there is) and figure out if it's something that can be addressed with glasses, but I'm pretty loving bummed; I feel like w/e we've been through here (COVID plus six other viruses, Sept - Present) has done demonstrable damage to my loving eyes, and, like, I need those to loving see?

keep watch to see if it's anything like a retinal detachment because time is of the essence with those

Charlatan Eschaton
Feb 23, 2018

might want to try the herb eyebright i've just been taking pills of it that seem to help with my lovely night vision but i guess they make actual eye drops of it too.

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?

Cabbages and Kings posted:

(..)
service animal?

Silver lining. But in all seriousness, that sucks and I am sorry it is happening to you :sympathy: Hopefully it is just temporary.

Pingui
Jun 4, 2006

WTF?

gently caress COREY PERRY posted:

If you quit I'll understand, but please keep going Pingui. You're an invaluable resource I definitely take for granted.

Thank you for the kind words (to you and everyone else), but I've been burned out since summer. Just sticking through until Paxlovid is no longer accessible, with a bit of leeway for figuring out the new venues of access.

I don't think the thread will survive next summer's inevitable push for closure; we barely eked out an extended stay of execution last summer, which I am fairly certain came entirely down to the admin team being notified that the day most of the bullshit was going on, 3 people that don't post in the thread asked for and received help on getting Paxlovid.

jetz0r
May 10, 2003

Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. Tomorrow we will lead the world, Allah willing.



Pingui posted:

I don't think the thread will survive next summer's inevitable push for closure; we barely eked out an extended stay of execution last summer, which I am fairly certain came entirely down to the admin team being notified that the day most of the bullshit was going on, 3 people that don't post in the thread asked for and received help on getting Paxlovid.

Everyone got distracted by the drama thread star pulling a spr. Which is also the same thing that happened the previous time.

100% of drama thread superstars who lead a push to close this thread buy themselves transphobic avatars and get permabanned.

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Rescue Toaster
Mar 13, 2003

Pingui posted:

These are some pretty interesting results. On the face of it, they look like any other Paxlovid study, but note that the cohort is comparatively very young (age 29.10 ± 7.34 years old):
"Impact of Paxlovid on in-hospital outcomes and post-COVID-19 condition in adult patients infected with SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant: A non-randomized controlled clinical trial"

It says the patients were from the 'designated hospital for treating COVID-19' but it's not clear if these were cases that were hospitalized or not. Non-pax having 30% with post COVID-19 conditions in the age range 22-36 is pretty loving awful if they weren't even severe cases.

EDIT: At least one nephew and one uncle tested positive, thankfully before anybody met up, so christmas is totally cancelled for my parents. Glad I was able to visit them at thanksgiving just us, and that they seemingly have dodged a couple close calls. I'm fortunate my extended family, though pretty much not doing anything anymore, at least will test when sick and communicate instead of crossing their fingers or outright hiding poo poo.

Rescue Toaster has issued a correction as of 16:38 on Dec 23, 2023

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