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this just popped up into my youtube feed and while watching it i was thinking about what amtrak is like and just getting angry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnB_vSVkX3k
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Dec 23, 2023 20:52
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lobster shirt posted:neon jenesis bvangelion neil jegrasse byson
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Dec 23, 2023 21:10
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saw one of those 260k bentley SUVs yesterday lol
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Dec 23, 2023 21:58
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actionjackson posted:saw one of those 260k bentley SUVs yesterday lol Hit it with your car
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Dec 23, 2023 22:03
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Ardennes posted:Tokyo has side streets that are bike-able, but there is always going to be an impediment in terms of space (and just public transportation). I guess this is a fine way of thinking as long as we're in agreement that cars are a much greater impediment in terms of space, so if your city has enough room for cars then it definitely has enough room for bikes. I'm sure you've seen the charts showing the capacity of lanes using different types of transportation; a city with two lanes running in the same direction that are set up for car-dominated mixed traffic right now would be way better off with one lane reserved for transit and another for bikes - in addition to enjoying the many reduced negative externalities of reducing car use. When I was in Tokyo a few years ago I noticed a bunch of streets wide enough that you could clearly take a lane or two from cars and give them to bikes - this is a net win for space, not a loss. Also, I'm not sure if I agree with the idea that certain cities are or aren't inherently 'bike cities,' because what determines whether or not a given city is a bike city hinges pretty much entirely on whether or not there's good bike infrastructure. St. Louis could be a bike city if they gave it the bike treatment, and for what it's worth Amsterdam was completely clogged with cars for a few decades; no one would have called it a bike city back when all the city squares were being used for car parking. Sure, stuff like hills and cold can be impediments, but I suspect that in anything less than the most extreme cases they're less of an obstacle than you'd think. Seems like Moscow has enough room for both transit and bikes as long as they take more room from cars.
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Dec 23, 2023 22:09
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Dec 23, 2023 22:09
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Ardennes posted:He just goes too far. It isn't that Amsterdam has better biking than Montreal; it of course, but come on. Amsterdam is a historically more small-scaled European city where most of the urban layout was already fixed in 1920. Nevertheless, Amsterdam also has its highways, industrial areas, and awkward metro stops. If you want to be fair, even it isn't a paradise, and honestly, a lot of sidewalks in Amsterdam are still an issue and the public transportation is ridiculously expensive. The guy is the ultimate six figgie transplant computer toucher so that's not surprising
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Dec 23, 2023 22:18
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At least you'll get the schadenfreude of him losing his mind as the new right wing government in the Netherlands tears up all that "woke transit and bike poo poo" for more car infrastructure and parking lots.
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Dec 23, 2023 22:41
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geert wilders deports njb for youtube crimes
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Dec 23, 2023 22:47
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The NJB guy hates biking and goes to great lengths to avoid doing it more than necessary.
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Dec 23, 2023 22:48
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:I guess this is a fine way of thinking as long as we're in agreement that cars are a much greater impediment in terms of space, so if your city has enough room for cars then it definitely has enough room for bikes. I'm sure you've seen the charts showing the capacity of lanes using different types of transportation; a city with two lanes running in the same direction that are set up for car-dominated mixed traffic right now would be way better off with one lane reserved for transit and another for bikes - in addition to enjoying the many reduced negative externalities of reducing car use. I would say the larger issue in many cities such like Moscow or Tokyo, is that bikes, while fine, often don't really make much sense in the flow of average commuters. I agree though taking out lanes makes sense but there is also a natural flows to cities. Moscow in particular is designed so high density housing is sitting next to bus stops which in turn lead to rapid transit. Perhaps you could take your bike to the local stop, but especially during winter, it doesn't make that much sense. It isn't really cars stopping people biking in those cities either, I just think public transit makes more sense as a solution in much larger cities. That said, Moscow has put some bike lanes in, and generally has very wide sidewalks in some areas, so it is actually fairly bikeable; there is just a hard limit of the people that are going to bike versus the bus transit lanes that now cover the city. I would say hills are more than an impediment to bike development but also just very nature the city itself. Amsterdam had cars, but most of the city is actually quite small scale and it makes a lot more sense to have a bike, but in Tokyo or Moscow, it just really doesn't make sense beyond a last-mile type of thing. It isn't that people don't have bikes and all type of e-vehicles, but usually the focus of life is on transit. Modern Montreal was also just built much more with cars in mind, so there are certain things that, like wide boulevards and highways, that aren't going away even if they are trying to retrofit the city. Obviously, more can be done but I do think there is going to be a limit of how much is going to be done about legacy highways, random industrial areas, or most importantly, suburbs. I think Montreal is making a decent attempt as trying to balance these elements as best they can. It is just they aren't ever going to be Amsterdam (outside maybe specific neighborhoods). That goes for other American cities as well, I think there are certainly improvements that can be done, but they will probably fall short of "greatness" just because of legacy infrastructure and development. Platystemon posted:The NJB guy hates biking and goes to great lengths to avoid doing it more than necessary. He mentions he takes a tram into work, which is fine I guess. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 23:01 on Dec 23, 2023 |
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Dec 23, 2023 22:50
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Dec 23, 2023 23:09
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Ardennes posted:a lot of sidewalks in Amsterdam are still an issue and the public transportation is ridiculously expensive. I was frankly shocked at how little space was afforded to pedestrians in the city centre, and the two-foot-wide platforms between the car lanes and the tram lanes didn't exactly make waiting for the tram a very comfortable, welcoming experience Amsterdam has a lot going for it and its urban design is obviously still lightyears ahead of the average North American city, but I still think Vienna beats its rear end in terms of making streets feel people-friendly. These are the only two major European cities I've been to as an adult so I'm hoping others (Prague, Munich, etc) aren't quite as disappointing.
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Dec 23, 2023 23:17
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The Maroon Hawk posted:I was frankly shocked at how little space was afforded to pedestrians in the city centre, and the two-foot-wide platforms between the car lanes and the tram lanes didn't exactly make waiting for the tram a very comfortable, welcoming experience Some of it is just central Amsterdam is just pretty cramped in general and while it is a very good biking city, it can be pretty awkward as a pedestrian. Prague is very walkable in the center, but at least when I was there, the biking infrastructure was pretty minimal. That said, I found the tram system system pretty convenient. I would say the drawback with Prague is just how much of the city is a tourist trap (ditto for Amsterdam tbh). Vienna I think generally got things right. Basically, there is a lot of ways to get rid of cars, and you have to balance pedestrian space, transit, and biking infrastructure off each other to see what works. Prague in many ways felt more car-free than even Amsterdam; it is a just a shame that it is clear that the center of the city became a bunch of CBD shops.
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Dec 23, 2023 23:29
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I think Amsterdam’s problem with cramped roads is because they seemed to have decided they still needed at least one car lane on every road. when you’re trying to cram separate lanes for cars, bikes, and trams all into those narrow roads there’s not a lot of room left for sidewalks solution: ban cars
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Dec 23, 2023 23:49
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Montreal looks badass though. I should visit it again sometime. Eat some good food, walk around and look at cool stuff, get my legs broken by some Québécois guys because I ordered a beer en anglaislobster shirt posted:geert wilders deports njb for youtube crimes Lol
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Dec 24, 2023 00:11
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DaysBefore posted:Montreal looks badass though. I should visit it again sometime. Eat some good food, walk around and look at cool stuff, get my legs broken by some Québécois guys because I ordered a beer en anglais Hell yeah come on over, it's wonderful between May and October. I'll buy you a pint of Quebecois beer while your legs are healing, sorry you're so Anglo but c'est la vie.
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Dec 24, 2023 00:54
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Ardennes posted:I would say the larger issue in many cities such like Moscow or Tokyo, is that bikes, while fine, often don't really make much sense in the flow of average commuters. That may indeed be the case for commuting to work, but I suspect that both Tokyo and Moscow still obey the general law where most trips within a city are quite short distances - think about people getting groceries, meeting friends in the neighborhood at a bar or restaurant, going to the park, getting something at a store, dropping their kids off at school (and past a certain age, allowing kids to drop themselves off instead of these atrocious car drop-off things we see these days). These are some of the most common kinds of trips and they're typically very bikeable distances, and that's where the bike makes a lot of sense as something that's highly deserving of street space. You're probably always going to walk to a destination that's just a block or two away, but as distances increase beyond that the bike is first saving you time and then allowing you to reach places under your own power where you might have been tempted to drive or forced to make do with inconvenient transit options - and, like you alluded to, the bikeshed of a transit stop is substantially larger than its walkshed. Ardennes posted:It isn't really cars stopping people biking in those cities either, I just think public transit makes more sense as a solution in much larger cities. Cars are definitely the root of the problem, but I would say a better way to think about it is to consider the sorts of trips people make over the course of a week and then ask yourself if they have safe and convenient bike options for reaching all of them. In a city with nonexistent/bad/patchy bike infra, the answer is going to be 'no.' Maybe you can reach a nearby park thanks to an off-road trail or your office thanks to the one nice bike lane nearby, but if you can't also reach your grocery store and the place where you play soccer with your team and your friend's apartment three neighborhoods over and the restaurant where your tinder date wants to meet, then people probably won't start biking. And if people don't bike, then we conclude that these aren't bike cities and assume that bikes are of limited use there for whatever reason seems appropriate. I also wouldn't pit public transit against bikes as being of greater or lesser use. They're both extremely important and play different roles in transportation, and also they both rule because they aren't cars. It's like comparing having electricity vs running water in your home; should this be an either/or? Ardennes posted:Modern Montreal was also just built much more with cars in mind, so there are certain things that, like wide boulevards and highways, that aren't going away even if they are trying to retrofit the city. Obviously, more can be done but I do think there is going to be a limit of how much is going to be done about legacy highways, random industrial areas, or most importantly, suburbs. I think Montreal is making a decent attempt as trying to balance these elements as best they can. It is just they aren't ever going to be Amsterdam (outside maybe specific neighborhoods). That goes for other American cities as well, I think there are certainly improvements that can be done, but they will probably fall short of "greatness" just because of legacy infrastructure and development. I don't really watch NJB other than when he gets posted in this thread, but I think the last time he came up in here is when he said that it's impossible for North America to substantially improve and that if we want good transportation we should just give up and move to the Netherlands, right? Wasn't that the same guy? Anyways, it feels like you're making a similar argument regarding whether or not improvement is possible and I guess I just disagree. Montreal, like a lot of North American cities, had to be traumatically rebuilt for the automobile: tearing out streetcars, demolishing neighborhoods for freeways, destroying the public life of cities to make them more convenient for motorists. They can be be fixed, and the proof is that many of the cities we would point to today as good examples of transportation required extensive rehabilitation themselves.  None of this is going to be easy, and I think everyone in this thread who's been involved in safe streets activism in even the slightest way knows that it's actually very hard and we're all going to have to eat a lot of poo poo while we fight for cities where fewer people get mashed into hamburger while they're crossing the street. If NJB is right about anything, though, it's that we should be insisting on greatness, because the alternative is carcinogenic fumes and dead neighbors and climate change and the sorts of hostile non-places that cars want us to build. anyways that's just my opinion, though. peace.
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Dec 24, 2023 05:18
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I'm going to my in-laws for Christmas. They live in a post industrial town basically, and while there is some infrastructure for bikes there, you still need a car if you work outside the town, which a majority does. Also a lot of stuff is really only reachable by car. Also the bus only comes once an hour. I hate it. It's absolutely required to have a car there. Meanwhile I can take either a bus or my bike anywhere I want to go (this does not include said in-laws) in Copenhagen. What I'm saying is gently caress car culture and also density is kinda required for biking. I'm living in the suburbs, which is kinda the limit for when bikes start going from daily commuter to hobby.
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Dec 24, 2023 07:57
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Love to blow up the family group chat with drama because I don't want to drive three hours one way to a reunion Merry Christmas, car thread
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Dec 24, 2023 11:43
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:That may indeed be the case for commuting to work, but I suspect that both Tokyo and Moscow still obey the general law where most trips within a city are quite short distances - think about people getting groceries, meeting friends in the neighborhood at a bar or restaurant, going to the park, getting something at a store, dropping their kids off at school (and past a certain age, allowing kids to drop themselves off instead of these atrocious car drop-off things we see these days). These are some of the most common kinds of trips and they're typically very bikeable distances, and that's where the bike makes a lot of sense as something that's highly deserving of street space. It is just in both cities, most people would walk or that public transportation. I get what you are saying, but my point was that pedestrian + transit can duplicate the usefulness of a bike. Moscow has Soviet planning so that everything is usually within a couple blocks. Basically, usually buildings are something similar to a super-bloc with small residential streets that are fine for biking. I think Tokyo is kind of similar in that it has a bunch of alleys that people bike but these in turn lead to larger streets. quote:Cars are definitely the root of the problem, but I would say a better way to think about it is to consider the sorts of trips people make over the course of a week and then ask yourself if they have safe and convenient bike options for reaching all of them. In a city with nonexistent/bad/patchy bike infra, the answer is going to be 'no.' Maybe you can reach a nearby park thanks to an off-road trail or your office thanks to the one nice bike lane nearby, but if you can't also reach your grocery store and the place where you play soccer with your team and your friend's apartment three neighborhoods over and the restaurant where your tinder date wants to meet, then people probably won't start biking. And if people don't bike, then we conclude that these aren't bike cities and assume that bikes are of limited use there for whatever reason seems appropriate. Part of it is just when a city reaches a certain size it becomes less realistic. You absolutely don't need a car in Tokyo/Moscow, it is just they have found a different way of doing things there. quote:I also wouldn't pit public transit against bikes as being of greater or lesser use. They're both extremely important and play different roles in transportation, and also they both rule because they aren't cars. It's like comparing having electricity vs running water in your home; should this be an either/or? I would say the tricky part is things like space for sidewalks and safe crossings for transit. Obviously, the less lanes you take out, less of an issue it becomes but I would say there are many cities that sort of figure it out already. I do think bike lanes are a thing that be an issue at point for pedestrians, though, and there is a balance there. quote:I don't really watch NJB other than when he gets posted in this thread, but I think the last time he came up in here is when he said that it's impossible for North America to substantially improve and that if we want good transportation we should just give up and move to the Netherlands, right? Wasn't that the same guy? Anyways, it feels like you're making a similar argument regarding whether or not improvement is possible and I guess I just disagree. Montreal, like a lot of North American cities, had to be traumatically rebuilt for the automobile: tearing out streetcars, demolishing neighborhoods for freeways, destroying the public life of cities to make them more convenient for motorists. They can be be fixed, and the proof is that many of the cities we would point to today as good examples of transportation required extensive rehabilitation themselves. NJB isn't really just insisting on greatness but pretty much writing it off unless it up to Amsterdam, and honestly, I don't think North American cities physically can become Amsterdam. Obviously, he doesn't have to leave his home, but it doesn't help to write off improvements that have been happening in cities like Montreal. Also,  This is a map of the Tokyo metro  This is Moscow (and large Chinese cities are similar to both) I think bikes are good, but at a certain point, it becomes more about the density of public transportation just from a size and efficiency standpoint. For example, when it comes down to it, while I like the improvements to biking in Amsterdam do a degree, I don't know if Moscow becoming more like Amsterdam would help things beyond perhaps taking some more lanes out on big boulevards, while in turn Amsterdam probably could have better public transit in some areas. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 12:15 on Dec 24, 2023 |
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Dec 24, 2023 12:03
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WaryWarren posted:Hi Steen. I don't know who you are, dude. Please go away. BonHair posted:I'm going to my in-laws for Christmas. They live in a post industrial town basically, and while there is some infrastructure for bikes there, you still need a car if you work outside the town, which a majority does. Where is this? --- My partner and I rode around Copenhagen for hours yesterday. A light snow had fallen but the bike-lanes had already been cleared (they make that a priority) and it was great cycling weather. The city felt almost deserted and there were thankfully very few noisy metal boxes out. Ate brunch by the water. Went to the new IKEA - which has zero parking spots for cars. Visited the zoo and pointed at a yellow-footed rock wallaby. And then my partner had to run an errand for her daughter, so she probably rode 30K+ altogether. Bikes are good. Cars suck. Not many people know this.    
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Dec 24, 2023 12:06
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Steen71 posted:I don't know who you are, dude. Please go away. Frederiksværk is where I'm at now and it sucks. Bikes rule though.
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Dec 24, 2023 13:02
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BonHair posted:Frederiksværk is where I'm at now and it sucks. Bikes rule though. Ah, I was in Melby recently to buy a projector. Seemed like a nice area and a quaint little town, but, yeah, probably not a great place to live without a car. Still, at least I could take the S-train and then local train to get there. Trains are extremely cool. PS. The guy from whom I bought the projector had a pretty amazing home cinema... 
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Dec 24, 2023 13:41
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I like tormenting myself by following local news, and maybe it’s an Oregon thing or maybe it’s common, but whenever you read about a wreck on a rural highway it will always say “the driver of the red f150 crossed the center lane for unknown reasons…” and it’s always like come on, I’m pretty certain they crossed the center lane because they were doing an illegal pass
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Dec 24, 2023 14:00
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HashtagGirlboss posted:I like tormenting myself by following local news, and maybe it’s an Oregon thing or maybe it’s common, but whenever you read about a wreck on a rural highway it will always say “the driver of the red f150 crossed the center lane for unknown reasons…” and it’s always like come on, I’m pretty certain they crossed the center lane because they were doing an illegal pass you don't know that. they could have been drunk
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Dec 24, 2023 15:03
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any road with a speed limit over 35mph really oughtta have some kind of center divider. two lane rural roads with twists and turns and drivers regularly going 55mph or higher are absolutely terrifying
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Dec 24, 2023 15:07
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Mauser posted:you don't know that. they could have been drunk or texting.
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Dec 24, 2023 15:13
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBbYfmqa4QU here have some holiday cheer from the cta
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Dec 24, 2023 16:06
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withak posted:or texting. or a diabetic coma. i was 2 seconds away from from getting killed with my parents when one of these crossed into our lane and hit the guardrail on the turn and flipped upside down into the woods.
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Dec 24, 2023 17:01
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All of those can happen for sure, but just rough estimates I think nine out of ten times I witness somebody cross the center line there’s passing involved
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Dec 24, 2023 17:07
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Driving is a contest and you win by passing anyone in front of you no matter what the conditions
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Dec 24, 2023 17:20
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The Oldest Man posted:this just popped up into my youtube feed and while watching it i was thinking about what amtrak is like and just getting angry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnB_vSVkX3k holy poo poo pathetic that i find this to be almost miraculous lol
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Dec 24, 2023 17:50
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Watching the fields and towns roll by, having a beer. Trains ftmfw
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Dec 24, 2023 18:15
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BonHair posted:I'm going to my in-laws for Christmas. They live in a post industrial town basically, and while there is some infrastructure for bikes there, you still need a car if you work outside the town, which a majority does. Also a lot of stuff is really only reachable by car. Also the bus only comes once an hour. I hate it. It's absolutely required to have a car there.
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Dec 24, 2023 18:51
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DaysBefore posted:Watching the fields and towns roll by, having a beer. Trains ftmfw same but i'm driving
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Dec 24, 2023 18:54
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i say swears online posted:same but i'm driving  cars ftw
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Dec 24, 2023 19:15
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A car bounced off a bus and took out a utility pole on one of our most infamous streets. The same thing happened three weeks ago on the same street. The solution is obviously to get rid of buses
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Dec 24, 2023 19:43
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Well, we could also get rid of utilities? Better do both!
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Dec 24, 2023 20:08
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biked to and from the bears game today. roughly 11 miles total. go bears gently caress cars gently caress green bay go bears
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Dec 25, 2023 02:52
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