(Thread IKs:
Roth)
|
checkplease posted:The discussion was about approaching films understanding directors have intent. Sure, all slo mo may not be the correct word choice, but you are ignoring the rest of the discussion about how and why directors use slo mo and other tools. Someone said they didn't like the use of slo mo in this film and then you questioned why they would watch a Snyder film if they hate all slo mo
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 00:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 17:50 |
|
|
Gumball Gumption posted:The brilliant subversion he's seeing is Alan Moore's work and subversion of comics and what they were doing when he was writing Watchmen. It's very goofy and shows you think overly highly of your industry and your peers if he thinks that brilliant subversion came from Snyder when its just the base concept of the work he was adapting. His entire comment is really "boy it would have been cool if Watchmen came out after the movies that remade all those comic stories its subverting and commenting on" which is nothing and has nothing to do with Snyder. Similar to what I was saying about the other comments, I feel like this is extrapolating a lot in order to get mad at Nolan and by extension Snyder. Like you're absolutely right that essentially all Nolan is really saying is "It would have been cool if Watchmen came out later" but of course that's pretty innocuous, so then you decide that what he means is that Alan Moore doesn't exist at all, Snyder is a genius who deserves sole credit, and his own industry is specifically great compared to comics I guess (despite the fact that the "brilliant subversion" is at the expense of movies that are also in that industry?). Obviously you make a good point that the Watchmen comic subverted previously released comic stories/characters, but I don't think it's unfair to point out that those characters/stories are not nearly as mainstream as they are now and that therefor it would have been cool to see how people reacted to a Watchmen film in the wake of Avengers
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 00:41
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Watched the first 30 mins of the Netflix Cut out of curiousity, and this is mainly a genuinely unnerving ‘Nazi home invasion’ kind of deal that recalls Inglorious Basterds. The only noticeable slow-mo was an Obviously Symbolic pouch of seeds being dropped on the ground, and the moment was clearly slowed down for emphasis on the Obviously Symbolicness (coming shortly after a big speech about how this religious community values fertility, and a subsequent smaller speech about how the protagonist is uncomfortable with the idea of ‘settling down’). That Chappie takes a lot of abuse. Excited to see more of Jimmy in next installment. Listening to the score, it reminds me of Gladiator, which had its own offscreen home invasion by a Roman army and fields of grain.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 00:43
|
|
|
Yeah this rules, like if the wachowskis never read manga and only 2000ad comics
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 00:57
|
|
|
Watchmen as a movie reminds me a lot of Team Fortress 2, a game which much more overtly takes the piss out of the industry and its specific genre by coming up with absurd justifications for the nonsensical elements of its world that stem from the requirements of the game (the identical teams fighting over abstract landscapes to accomplish vague objectives with lots of 'gamey' elements like health packs, respawning and anachronistic technologies) And in doing so pretty much flawlessly parodied Overwatch, a game that came out nearly a decade later in the same genre but that was absolutely sincere, and simply looked the other way at the nonsensical elements that grew out of how the game works (the identical teams fighting over abstract landscapes to accomplish vague objectives with lots of 'gamey' elements like health packs, respawning and anachronistic technologies)
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 00:59
|
|
|
Papercut posted:Someone said they didn't like the use of slo mo in this film and then you questioned why they would watch a Snyder film if they hate all slo mo In the post you're quoting they specifically say that using "all slo mo" was the wrong choice of words, you're just repeating your earlier straw man accusation here without actually addressing the post replying to it or adding anything new
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 00:59
|
|
|
ungulateman posted:Watchmen as a movie reminds me a lot of Team Fortress 2, a game which much more overtly takes the piss out of the industry and its specific genre by coming up with absurd justifications for the nonsensical elements of its world that stem from the requirements of the game (the identical teams fighting over abstract landscapes to accomplish vague objectives with lots of 'gamey' elements like health packs, respawning and anachronistic technologies) That's an excellent and also hilarious comparison
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 01:05
|
|
|
What was Snyder thinking with this costume?? Watchmen already came out in the 80s!!!
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 01:17
|
|
|
It's fascinating how worked up some folk get over people liking and/or trying to discuss Snyder's movies. Snyder should've leveraged Rebel Moon's space opera marketing push to platform another indictment of fanboy culture like he did with Sucker Punch, lol. Using Rebel Moon as means to display how brutal and evil space fascists are in less sanitized fashion that comes with the genre is pretty good tho.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 01:30
|
|
|
Vintersorg posted:What was Snyder thinking with this costume?? Watchmen already came out in the 80s!!! I never noticed the Ozymanipples before
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 01:36
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:I never noticed the Ozymanipples before It's the details that matter
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 01:54
|
|
|
Watchmen the movie was in conversation with earlier superhero movies in a similar way to how Watchmen the comic was in conversation with earlier superhero comics. The Ozymanipples are the Batnipples again. This conversation has convinced me to watch the short, clean version of Rebel Moon Part 1, perhaps even as soon as tomorrow.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 02:13
|
|
|
teagone posted:It's fascinating how worked up some folk get over people liking and/or trying to discuss Snyder's movies. Snyder should've leveraged Rebel Moon's space opera marketing push to platform another indictment of fanboy culture like he did with Sucker Punch, lol. Using Rebel Moon as means to display how brutal and evil space fascists are in less sanitized fashion that comes with the genre is pretty good tho. He's a 9d chess expert genius just like Elon, lol.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 02:18
|
|
|
Gumball Gumption posted:The brilliant subversion he's seeing is Alan Moore's work and subversion of comics and what they were doing when he was writing Watchmen. It's very goofy and shows you think overly highly of your industry and your peers if he thinks that brilliant subversion came from Snyder when its just the base concept of the work he was adapting. His entire comment is really "boy it would have been cool if Watchmen came out after the movies that remade all those comic stories its subverting and commenting on" which is nothing and has nothing to do with Snyder. Other folks have responded to this, but it’s worth specifically pointing out that Watchmen’s “subversion” of comic-book movies includes its ostensible status as an adaptation. What this means is simply that Snyder’s film copies much of the plot and imagery, but makes so many subtle changes to the narrative that the film functions more as a companion piece or sequel to the comic (long before the ‘canonical’ Watchmen sequel TV series). It’s a whole other story. This was to the chagrin of fans who don’t particularly care about narrative, loudly complaining that Snyder translated the comic inaccurately. Like, as if his job was just to change it from English to French. I’ve always pointed out that Chris Nolan’s Dark Knight 2: The Dark Knight is much closer to the Watchmen comic in both theme and tone. Snyder’s Watchmen consequently serves as a nice companion to that film. They both function as satires of liberalism, but in very different ways.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 02:20
|
|
|
Barreft posted:He's a 9d chess expert genius just like Elon, lol. Nah he just made a pretty straightforward anti-fascist movie, that's all the OP was saying
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 02:22
|
|
|
Barreft posted:He's a 9d chess expert genius just like Elon, lol. Elon sucks. Zack Snyder is pretty cool imo. What a rude comparison.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 02:24
|
|
|
teagone posted:Elon sucks. Zack Snyder is pretty cool imo. What a rude comparison. I'm rude  What are some Snyder originals I can watch? I mean him creating everything, not adapting something already made. Google is terribly poo poo on finding anything anymore with their SEO I'm trying Barreft fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Dec 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 02:44
|
|
|
At least you're honest 
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 02:45
|
|
|
Sucker Punch and Army of Thieves are his originals, i'd say. arguably there's kind of an attenuated link between the latter and Romero's zombie movies but by the time you get to Thieves it's very, very thin
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 02:51
|
|
|
Just finished this, some initial thoughts: Plot was serviceable, had some lovely shots, action was a bit underwhelming than what I am used to for Snyder (thinking specifically of like 300, Sucker Punch, the Batman warehouse fight, etc) but not bad by any means. I also thought the creatures were interesting but the star ship design was pretty lackluster(beyond the funny wet vagina portal at the beginning) I think the complaints about cut backstories and stuff was a bit overblown, they only recruit a few people and they get their own little unique vignette and a cool moment during the final fight. That part at least -- driving from planet to plant picking up wacky looking characters -- was pretty breezily paced and worked super well for me. Speaking of the final fight, I actually really loved the twist on expectations where they are just betrayed and captured, but then was underwhelmed by the results; I was hoping they would narrowly escape with heavy losses and a worse overall position (or at the very least win but by some really clever switcheroo and a lot of dumb luck) but then they seemed to just basically win an pretty unambiguous victory, which seemed like a waste of a really compelling setup. The one bit of slow motion that stood out as especially weird/bad was in Kora's backstory. The first bit of it starts just as a guy behind her gets blasted in the head, with his head snapping back being the initiator, but then it continues for what seems like an unreasonable length of time while Kora completes what seems like a very insignificant hop? Then ramps back up and slows again when she hits a wall for cover. The only thing i could think of was: in the R cut there might specifically be more people getting blasted apart around her as she recklessly charged forward, which would make this a more reasonable place for that slow motion, but if that's the case it is weird to leave it in the cleaner cut. Not much else to say at the moment. The comparisons to Star Wars are pretty trite, like yeah there was some space ships and a cantina but otherwise like some people said it was more like Mass Effect (and obviously some people are saying Warhammer but I don't know enough about that unfortunately). Why some people find it insanely objectionable is a mystery (lol I mean no it's not, I know why people want to be hyperbolic and get into dumb fights but any sane person is going to rate this somewhere from like "a waste of time" to "mediocre" to "pretty fun" and anyone calling it a masterpiece or the worst movie ever are just roleplaying online)
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 02:58
|
|
|
It doesn't really make any sense to fret over 'originals'. Like, Snyder's Dawn Of The Dead has nothing to do with the Romero version at all, outside the base concept of zombies attacking a shopping mall.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 02:59
|
|
|
Barreft posted:What are some Snyder originals I can watch? I mean him creating everything, not adapting something already made. Google is terribly poo poo on finding anything anymore with their SEO I'm trying Sucker Punch was the first film he wrote/directed that wasn't an adaptation. Letterboxed did a sort of retrospective interview with Snyder about the film back in July that I thought was pretty interesting. It's a bit spoilery though, so I'd hold off reading it until you've seen the movie. https://letterboxd.com/ifccenter/story/sucker-punch-an-interview-with-zack-snyder/ -- it gives some neat insight. Be sure to watch the extended cut with Oscar Isaac and Carla Gugino doin a great musical number. His next original work was Army of the Dead; was writer/director/producer. It was also the first time he was the DP as well. Snyder does some weird poo poo with the lenses when he shot the film that, much like how his films are received, was pretty polarizing lol. I thought it looked fine, but I get why people might not dig it the sort of dreamy aesthetic he was going for. Army of Thieves is an AotD spinoff that he didn't direct, but he co-wrote and produced it. Fun enough heist movie. And then now his take on space operas with Rebel Moon, where he again does some experimental stuff with lenses as the DP that not everyone is gonna like haha. teagone fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Dec 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 03:16
|
|
|
Guy A. Person posted:In the post you're quoting they specifically say that using "all slo mo" was the wrong choice of words, you're just repeating your earlier straw man accusation here without actually addressing the post replying to it or adding anything new The person still didn't seem to understand how they had strawmanned the OP so I was helpfully clarifying, not trying to add anything new. Hope this clears it up.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 04:10
|
|
|
Papercut posted:The person still didn't seem to understand how they had strawmanned the OP so I was helpfully clarifying, not trying to add anything new. Hope this clears it up. But you seem to not be understanding that you simply repeated the exact same thing without adding anything. Hopefully this clarifies my point a bit for you.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 04:14
|
|
|
Now one hour into the movie, we've gotten the first actually-weak effects shot, with the Nazi baddies' CG drug-sex tentacle pet still looking somewhat pasted overtop of a rather complicated lighting setup. Otherwise, the movie has been totally fine. In keeping with recent discussion about the slow motion, there's a very interesting purposefulness to how it's employed. In the 'present-day' action scenes, it's used to highlight Kora's decision-making processes. Like, for example, the first gunfight slows down to show specifically how she's using bodies and other objects to obscure the gunman's line of sight. In the second action scene, there's the usually-cliché moment where the final baddie sneaks up behind her - only to be taken out by someone else(!!!). The scene slows down here to show that she's actually fully aware that this is what's happening, and that she allows it to happen. It's not really 'cool' except insofar as it illustrates her gun-fu abilities - definitely not just making pointlessly 'cool', images. In the flashback sequence, as a contrast, speed-ramping is used to give things an uneasy, stuttering start-stop quality. It doesn't clarify anything about the action, and instead highlights just rudimentary, disconnected images of 'jumping off a ship', 'taking cover', 'firing a gun', etc. It's exactly like if you had to tell her backstory with only a handful of comic-book panels - but the speed-ramping intermixes those still images with the mess of fire and shrapnel. Since this sequence is accompanied by voiceover, it's easy to see that this is specifically how Kora now sees her past self - and it's easy to keep track of which parts of the story she omits in the telling. Otherwise, yeah, the part where they fly off with Hunnam Solo seems really obviously slashed for runtime. Halfway into the film, this is where the missing 33% starts to be conspicuously absent. I had the same feeling watching BVS theatrical. Still no reasons to be angry yet, though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 04:32
|
|
|
Well, that was hour one. Hour two is basically hacked to poo poo and not worth watching. Once the cuts start, around the halfway point, they get progressively worse until the final action scene is genuinely incomprehensible. You simply cannot go in and truncate a sequence that has that many moving parts. Like, it's a gunfight involving a dozen named characters, and they've cut it down to focus on just two or three of them. That's insane. And it means that, retroactively, those other characters don't even actually belong in this cut of the movie. Netflix hosed up this so hard that the smarter choice would been to go in, remove the recruitment montage, and digitally erase all the protagonists besides Kora, Gunnar, and Darian. My advice for Snyder fans: watch until they get on the first spaceship, then just shut it off and wait for the real version.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 06:29
|
|
|
I think we need more Bae Donna in her Chakan hat than Gunnar or Darian
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 10:20
|
|
|
Honest Thief posted:I think we need more Bae Donna in her Chakan hat than Gunnar or Darian More Bae Doona. More Jimmy. I will also accept more Ed Skrein, as long as he is chewing the scenery.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 10:22
|
|
|
Interview with the VFX supervisor Some fun bits, they built a real Jimmy head and chest, Harmada's legs were pool noodles, the prison chair trundled along on a little train track.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 11:01
|
|
|
Some thoughts: - This is an 80's Star Wars ripoff, but this time with a budget, though not enough of one to get every effects shot right. I would really rather see a director take on some convoluted, as of yet book-only space opera at this point. - The dialogue sounds like it was written for a book, not a performance. A very early example is the farmer going "or... or..." with pregnant pauses where the prose between dialogue was. - Is the eventual supercut of this going to add some gore? It is explicitly and sometimes awkwardly edited out of the cut, to the point that George Lucas was making gorier movies in 1977. It becomes a bit silly at the point that people are being turned into pez dispensers by Judge Dredd pistols, which causes them to disappear from frame. - Given how basic this plot is, funneling it through Snyder's grandiose style makes it sometimes feel laborious. Some efficiency in storytelling might have been nice, we don't need to devote so much effort to revealing that the fascist dressed exactly like a Nazi is going to kill and abuse farmers at will.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 11:31
|
|
|
Name Change posted:Some thoughts: I don't know, people seem to be really confused that Nazis are apparently vile and vicious and that most often cruelty is the point. We've gotten to a point where for a time Star Wars was doing a "the Empire just wants to maintain proper order" and "really the real villains are the people selling ammunition to the Rebels" thing. They're dialing that back a bit with Andor but it's still a rare and late adjustment.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 11:42
|
|
|
After watching this, I kind of agree with Supermechagodzilla's take. The first part of the movie up until the end of the bar fight is essentially ok. The negotiations with the Motherworld are genuinely tense, the movie is decent at setting up the characters of Kora, Farmguy, the Robot and the One Good Soldier and the fight scene in the barn is definitely the best in the movie imo. It's not great because of just how many times Kora could have easily been shot and wasn't but the choreography was good and the ending with the sideways shot was pretty sweet. In retrospect, it's really bizarre that after that point the robot and good soldier just disappear. That's where you can see the movie getting heavily cut down or even outright cut in half as they will likely be relevant in the sequel. But it's still a huge flaw in this movie that those two are set up as characters and after a point don't show up again with no explanation for what's happening with them. Especially when we then go on a montage recruiting these pointless randoms. A tighter script would have had these guys the whole way through and cut out two or more of the recruits to give everyone much more time to breathe and get fleshed out, even accounting for the supposed hour of extra time Snyder wants to add. Speaking of, all of the characters who show up after they leave the village are pretty terrible. Kai offers to help them with no explanation of why, with them even pointing out that it doesn't make any sense for him to be doing this but following him anyway. He just doesn't get any chance to establish himself as a character until the scene right before he betrays everyone and dies. Said betrayal being painfully obvious because the scene setting it up had to be put right before it happens. Cut or give him a lot more time to justify his presence in the plot. I think the worst character is Shirtless Guy. He's introduced as a blacksmith and is apparently also some kind of animal whisperer and beast rider? But then the bad guy casually announces that he's also a prince but when the fighting starts he starts popping out of cover to shoot like he's a soldier. Just no consistency or personality to this guy, pick a drat lane and stick with it. Snyder obviously just wanted a long, long scene of someone riding a griffon so that's why he's in there but given how pointless he is to the plot it's just a massive waste of time. Cut. Nemesis is a generic as gently caress Asian swordswoman who talks about honor and motherhood and has a bad lightsaber fight with a monster while everyone just watches even though they have loving guns. She's dull and bad every time she's on screen, which is basically never after this scene anyway. Cut. Titus's character is that he's sad and then the protagonists show up and tell him to stop being sad and do something so he does. He gets no screentime in spite of being the actual goal of the entire movie, because there's just not enough movie left for him to do anything. Cut. Brother Bloodaxe was kind of decent and probably the only one I'd actually keep. If the whole movie was about finding this guy and then he dies saving them anyway that would be a pretty good twist and set up for a sequel. Which reminds me, it's weird how the movie ends with them thinking they've won and then going to the village anyway. It's like they know there's going to be a sequel. Of the other characters the main bad guy was ok as a purely evil obstacle but the solder squad and gay rapist dude in the bar were way too over the top evil. It feels like I should have more to say about the second half of the movie but really recruiting all of these pointless character IS the second half of the movie so that's really the only thing I can think of. It is noticeable how the dialogue gets worse and the pacing suffers because it's just jumping from one scene to the next with nothing connecting them. One thing that really annoyed me was the final fight with the bad guy felt really pointless. Kora slides in to fight him even though he's about to get crushed by a ship (or seems to at least). If she had just not done anything he would have been alone on that dinky little raft and they could have just shot him. The fight itself was ok, but that just really took me out of the scene. On the whole, I actually doubt that this movie can be saved by a directors cut. MAYBE the sequel will be better and have some pay off to things this movie has set up but I'm not invested enough to be really looking forward to it. As a big Snyder fan, unfortunately I think he really bombed with this one. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Dec 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 16:44
|
|
|
Nephthys posted:As a bug Snyder fan, unfortunately I think he really bombed with this one. Ah-ha! of course you hated a movie where a big spider got killed if you're also a bug! way to gently caress up and let your bias show!
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 16:52
|
|
|
Nephthys posted:On the whole, I actually doubt that this movie can be saved by a directors cut. MAYBE the sequel will be better and have some pay off to things this movie has set up but I'm not invested enough to be really looking forward to it. Given that the first half of the movie seems untouched, it's safe to assume that the second half was originally twice as long. 60 minutes is enough to give 10-15 minutes to each new character and account for all the missing footage in the final fight scene. And, of course, much of that runtime would have included scenes of the characters interacting with eachother. Because of that overlap, each new character may have had like 20 minutes of fleshing out. Think of how much is conveyed about Jimmy and the one good soldier in just a few minutes. Netflix, insanely, chose to shorten the film by focusing exclusively on Kora and reducing nearly all the recruited characters to macguffins. Literally, they are just powerful objects that the protagonist and antagonist are attempting to collect. At the same time, because they preserved some of the action scenes, a good 25% of the film grinds to a halt to advertise the power of the macguffins. I don't think we can pin this on the director, because I can't see any director doing this intentionally.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 17:01
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Given that the first half of the movie seems untouched, it's safe to assume that the second half was originally twice as long. 60 minutes is enough to give 10-15 minutes to each new character and account for all the missing footage in the final fight scene. And, of course, much of that runtime would have included scenes of the characters interacting with eachother. Because of that overlap, each new character may have had like 20 minutes of fleshing out. Think of how much is conveyed about Jimmy and the one good soldier in just a few minutes. I pin it on the director because I don't think any of those other characters should be in the movie, even if they get an extra 15 minutes each. The movie would be much stronger if they were removed and it focused on the characters we already know instead. You could easily replace their roles in the story with the robot and soldier guy and save the extra hour or use it for something more interesting. It also is Snyders fault if Netflix hired him to make a 2 hour movie and he made a 3 hour one. The guy needs to learn some restraint. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Dec 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 17:12
|
|
|
Guy A. Person posted:Ah-ha! of course you hated a movie where a big spider got killed if you're also a bug! way to gently caress up and let your bias show! These must be those unreasonable criticisms that are giving the thread a bad name.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 17:13
|
|
|
Nephthys posted:I pin it on the director because I don't think any of those other characters should be in the movie, even if they get an extra 15 minutes each. The movie would be much stronger if they were removed and it focused on the characters we already know instead. You could easily replace their roles in the story with the robot and soldier guy and save the extra hour or use it for something more interesting. It's also a part 1 though and has to serve as setup for the second half.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 17:14
|
|
|
Nephthys posted:I pin it on the director because I don't think any of those other characters should be in the movie, even if they get an extra 15 minutes each. The movie would be much stronger if they were removed and it focused on the characters we already know instead. You could easily replace their roles in the story with the robot and soldier guy and save the extra hour or use it for something more interesting. see I'd agree with that if he weren't ultimately getting his way and getting the cut he wants after all. like if this were the only version of the movie that would ever exist, absolutely, that would be a bad deal. as a sacrificial lamb so the real movie can exist it's incredibly stupid, yes, but not on Snyder's part
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 17:18
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Given that the first half of the movie seems untouched, it's safe to assume that the second half was originally twice as long. 60 minutes is enough to give 10-15 minutes to each new character and account for all the missing footage in the final fight scene. And, of course, much of that runtime would have included scenes of the characters interacting with eachother. Because of that overlap, each new character may have had like 20 minutes of fleshing out. Think of how much is conveyed about Jimmy and the one good soldier in just a few minutes. Bit of a tangent- you usually have some unusual or underseen recs. Anything particularly interesting you've seen this year that you might recommend?
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 17:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 17:50 |
|
|
Yeah the 2 vs 3 hour cut 100% seems like a marketing decision. There’s no way they hired Synder not expecting a long version as he’s had this planned out for a bit. And with the amount of marketing they are putting in, this films development was definitely watched. checkplease fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Dec 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 17:36
|
|