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I liked the whole recruitment thing, I do think there was a way to cut the last third of the movie to be more coherent and give the recruits more time to shine in the final fight, while also not making the whole "we are all returning to the farming village for essentially no reason" thing more sensible, but maybe that would have required actual reshoots and ADRing that was seen as unreasonable. In a way this is sort've like the opposite of BvS, where the first third of that film was cut to poo poo in order to get it under a time limit. Unfortunately David Brenner who I think did a better job with BvS is no longer with us and it seems whoever did this edit was not as up to that task,
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Dec 27, 2023 17:36
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:see I'd agree with that if he weren't ultimately getting his way and getting the cut he wants after all. like if this were the only version of the movie that would ever exist, absolutely, that would be a bad deal. as a sacrificial lamb so the real movie can exist it's incredibly stupid, yes, but not on Snyder's part It's just a marketing gimmick specific to Snyder after the success of the JL cut (I'm not even necessarily saying it's HIM making the marketing decision about that) but like.. if you know the movie is going to be two hours, why wouldn't you put all your time and money into making those two hours as good as possible, instead of diluting it with another hour of footage/effects? Unless it's legitimately just an up front thing there will be another, longer future cut, and I don't take that as Synder getting his way, I SERIOUSLY doubt it wasn't worked out ahead of time with Netflix, again, as a marketing gimmick. I haven't seen the movie so I have no opinion on it but the situation with it is pretty interesting. Has there been any other blockbuster-type director that is expected to release a longer, 'better' cut later, to where it's baked-in to a movie's production?
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Dec 27, 2023 17:37
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Guy A. Person posted:I liked the whole recruitment thing, I do think there was a way to cut the last third of the movie to be more coherent and give the recruits more time to shine in the final fight, while also not making the whole "we are all returning to the farming village for essentially no reason" thing more sensible, but maybe that would have required actual reshoots and ADRing that was seen as unreasonable. I think one way to see the recruitment is as a series of shorter stories loosely connected before the final battle. Like there’s a story about a space Conan given a chance at freedom if he helps to enslave a beast. Instead he helps it fight for itself following theme of the film. Then there’s a story about a warrior meeting and a dying ancient spider breed discussing and fight over the best path of revenge. There’s a cadre of revolutionaries debating if they owe it to the civilians to help them or to focus on the cause.And finally there’s just an angry drunk guy. The big battle, agreed, just seems too heavily edited between its series of moments: betrayal, kora escape, ray Fischer jump, then fist fight.
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Dec 27, 2023 17:40
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Yeah agreed, which is why I liked the recruitments overall. I do get the complaints tho because yeah you recruit all these people and they do dick all for the actual conclusion of this movie (except for Bloodaxe) and then the ending is a bit muddled where they think the've won and then they go back to the village anyway for seemingly no reason.
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Dec 27, 2023 17:44
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Not until reading this thread for the last few pages was I aware that this movie was released as garbage deliberately as a marketing gimmick. I don't even know what's real anymore.
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Dec 27, 2023 18:01
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Majkol posted:Bit of a tangent- you usually have some unusual or underseen recs. Anything particularly interesting you've seen this year that you might recommend? I need to catch up on a lot of 2023, and I dunno how 'underseen' it is, but I reckon my pick for the year is The Oldest View [Parts 1-4]. Nephthys posted:I pin it on the director because I don't think any of those other characters should be in the movie, even if they get an extra 15 minutes each. The movie would be much stronger if they were removed and it focused on the characters we already know instead. You could easily replace their roles in the story with the robot and soldier guy and save the extra hour or use it for something more interesting. As with the Wachowskis' Matrix sequel(s), Netflix ultimately paid Snyder to make a ~6 hour movie with an intermission. That's why those other characters are there. Netflix just also made the baffling decision to cut that down severely and release it in two parts, with a promise to release the real version eventually.
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Dec 27, 2023 18:09
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Execs trying to wield the power of the meme
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Dec 27, 2023 18:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I need to catch up on a lot of 2023, and I dunno how 'underseen' it is, but I reckon my pick for the year is The Oldest View [Parts 1-4]. This kid's goin places!
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Dec 27, 2023 18:44
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josh04 posted:It's also a part 1 though and has to serve as setup for the second half. I think it's pretty drat lame and Not Cinema to make a movie that can't stand on its own, but Snyder willingly taking hits to the face as an offering to the algo-gods in order to get an eventual 6 hour R-rated blockbuster budget original film is some big brain visionary poo poo.
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Dec 27, 2023 18:48
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It's definitely my least favourite trend of 2023, and every film that's tried it has suffered pretty badly for it in the "being cinema" league table.
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Dec 27, 2023 19:27
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I don't really understand what the point of it is. If you were going to cut a movie into two parts, then release multiple versions of them in theaters, it would obviously be a cynical cash-grab, but at least that would make some kind of sense. Why do that on a streaming service?
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Dec 27, 2023 19:31
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to get people to subscribe twice, or stay subscribed from the release of one to the other and i'll admit they got me lol. i would not have a netflix sub right now if it weren't for Snyder (and I guess their k-drama back catalogue doesn't hurt)
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Dec 27, 2023 19:33
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:[...] (and I guess their k-drama back catalogue doesn't hurt) I enjoyed My Liberation Notes a little while ago; was a pretty affecting family drama that I found pretty relatable. I also really liked Doona! with Bae Suzy playing a washed up k-pop idol  If you're into romantic dramedies you'll likely enjoy it.
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Dec 27, 2023 20:43
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Staggering the releases keeps people maintaining their subscriptions (and getting hooked on other comment) while they wait for the next part, and it also means that they don't need for the VFX studio to finish the entire thing in order to start having content. What's weird is that Netflix is doing this with a movie, while notoriously doing just the opposite with designed-to-be-episodic seasons of television.
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Dec 27, 2023 20:44
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Guy A. Person posted:while also not making the whole "we are all returning to the farming village for essentially no reason" thing more sensible, I may have misunderstood (as I watched the movie broken up in 2 parts), but weren't they needing to return to get the small payment they were promised (was it just grain?)? I see so many people brining up this point, but it never crossed my mind as I'd thought I'd heard (or assumed) the above.
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Dec 27, 2023 20:55
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McGann posted:I may have misunderstood (as I watched the movie broken up in 2 parts), but weren't they needing to return to get the small payment they were promised (was it just grain?)? Correct there is the promise of payment, but it seems small enough they could just skip out on it. Felt more like eh we might as well to me, we’ve come this far.
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Dec 27, 2023 21:06
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Or, well, the remaining samurai know fully well how the empire operates and might just be joking about how it's all over and they don't need to fight, there's that.
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Dec 27, 2023 21:16
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I mean yeah that's the thing, like an extra line or two saying like "even with Noble gone, the Motherland might still come back..." with a knowing look thrown in. Sure they could be just going to chill through the harvest and get those g(r)ains but it seems kinda superfluous
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Dec 27, 2023 21:19
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Having defeated the baddies our heros go and sit on a beach planet drinking cocktails for 6 space months or whatever it was. Before popping over to the isolated village desperately trying to harvest the promised grain in fear for their very lives. Oh?!? Lol? Did we not say? We killed those guys ages ago don't worry about it.
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Dec 27, 2023 21:21
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Guy A. Person posted:I mean yeah that's the thing, like an extra line or two saying like "even with Noble gone, the Motherland might still come back..." with a knowing look thrown in. Sure they could be just going to chill through the harvest and get those g(r)ains but it seems kinda superfluous who does that inform though, the audience already gets the goo bag zoom meeting sequence of the characters, Kora has fought for the empire her entire life Titus probably wrote most of the current imperial doctrine Nemesis has been assassinating oppressor dignitaries Tarak had his entire planet ground to dust by the empire farmer guy just had a lesson in how the empire operates like none of them are saying, seriously, oh well looks like we're done here, a round of Long Island ice tea for all VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Dec 27, 2023 |
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Dec 27, 2023 21:23
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Bongo Bill posted:Staggering the releases keeps people maintaining their subscriptions (and getting hooked on other comment) while they wait for the next part, and it also means that they don't need for the VFX studio to finish the entire thing in order to start having content. They basically got 4 movies out for this. Both parts and both directors cuts
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Dec 27, 2023 21:37
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Guy A. Person posted:I mean yeah that's the thing, like an extra line or two saying like "even with Noble gone, the Motherland might still come back..." with a knowing look thrown in. Sure they could be just going to chill through the harvest and get those g(r)ains but it seems kinda superfluous The way it's cut was for sure meant to imply the group of heroes think the fight is over and want to get the compensation for their troubles, as promised. Kora explains in the aftermath of the final action sequence that the imperium are cowards and when an admiral dies protocol dictates the ship/crew have to return to the motherworld, after which sorta drunk Mr. Titus is all like, "we still get paid tho, right?!  " and then the film transitions to a "twist" showing that Noble isn't dead actually! I thought it was communicated fine, but the extended cut will probably handle it better for obvious reasons.
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Dec 27, 2023 22:16
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:and i'll admit they got me lol. i would not have a netflix sub right now if it weren't for Snyder (and I guess their k-drama back catalogue doesn't hurt) Have you seen Persona? It’s an anthology of four short-films all written/helmed by different art-house directors centered around the same actress, and it features some slick cinematography. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz2RE4rBJHg
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Dec 27, 2023 22:28
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I bring exciting filler information from the novelisation! The book opens with an origin story for the imperial soldier who tries to help Sam, where his father was a King who harboured the Bloodaxes and was executed by Admiral Noble, who kidnapped him for the Realm. After the fight he announces that he was never one of them and never could be. Kora suggests to Hagen before she leaves that the two of them go salvage the ship she arrived in.
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Dec 27, 2023 22:29
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KVeezy3 posted:Have you seen Persona? It’s an anthology of four short-films all written/helmed by different art-house directors centered around the same actress, and it features some slick cinematography. Quoting so I can find it easily later; thank you.
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Dec 27, 2023 22:42
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josh04 posted:I bring exciting filler information from the novelisation! The book opens with an origin story for the imperial soldier who tries to help Sam, where his father was a King who harboured the Bloodaxes and was executed by Admiral Noble, who kidnapped him for the Realm. After the fight he announces that he was never one of them and never could be. Kora suggests to Hagen before she leaves that the two of them go salvage the ship she arrived in. Meh.
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Dec 27, 2023 23:36
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Nephthys posted:It also is Snyders fault if Netflix hired him to make a 2 hour movie and he made a 3 hour one. The guy needs to learn some restraint. Sorry but I just can’t think like this at all. Every corporation deserves to be run into the dirt and if you are an artist you should lie, cheat, steal, and treat them like absolute dog poo poo in service of getting your vision out there.
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Dec 28, 2023 00:02
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YggdrasilTM posted:Meh. If you were "meh" at that you're going to hate this: Assuming the extended cut follows the novelisation, there's no major structural change in the latter half of the movie. Tarek, Nemesis and Titus are complete vignettes but there's no extended backstory or major missing element. Instead there's lots of time spent with Aris (the soldier) and Sam back at the village, and Jimmy who is learning self-expression. The book also spends lots of time with Noble's second-in-command but that feels like filler. The final battle is a bit incoherent in the Netflix cut because all the big moments are extremely violent.
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Dec 28, 2023 01:07
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I assumed the villagers just sacrificed that solider to their fertility good in a wicker man fashion. Good to know there’s no space bees and get better fate. Glad to hear there’s more Jimmy.
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Dec 28, 2023 01:22
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Saw this, thought it was pretty terrible. I have no particular opinion of Snyder, and I actually didn’t know it was one of his movies going in. Might have a different view going forward, though… I didn’t know it was a cut-down version either, but I’m not of the opinion that it can be saved by a longer running time. The structure is just too exhausting—the side-kick recruitment part was already dragging on (with atrociously bad and paper-thin characters that serve no purpose), I really don’t have the stamina for an extended version of that. Besides, what amazing character development would be hiding in the cut content to make the likes of Conan the griffon-riding barbarian actually engaging and not a character concept a 10 year old dreamed up for a D&D session? Speaking of character development, what journey does Kora actually go through? What is her lesson she needs to learn, her wants and needs, her flaw to overcome, the theme that shapes the story? On a surface level her back-story is interesting, but I need more than that. What’s hiding in that noggin of hers? Does she have commitment issues? Guilt? Repressed anger? Is she trying to hide? Clear her name? It feels like she’s fighting the Empire out of necessity (because now the outpost soldiers are dead which would doom the village once the Empire finds out) rather than a conscious decision. Yes, she chooses to save the girl rather than ride away, but for obvious reasons (anyone would wish to intervene). The choice has no thematic or character development underpinning. Where is her growth at? All I got was that she doesn’t want to settle down and have children in this weirdo religious village, but it has no significance on the story plot-wise or thematically. The lack of character depth is really hammered home at the final battle between Kora and Noble, where there’s no dialogue (except for the quip at the end). Usually in good story-telling the antagonist embodies some sort of shadow-side of the protagonist, or an embraced flaw, or a temptation that the protagonist is struggling with. And this conflict of ideologies might be shown via the characters battling each other verbally as well? Here it’s just as if it’s two randoms punching at each other. And not to pile on with the Star Wars comparisons, but going to what is essentially Cloud City, where they are betrayed was a bit too on the nose. There’s an homage, and then there’s… that. Overall, unless the entire world suddenly hail the longer version and the sequel as the greatest movies of the 21st century, I’ll give them a hard pass. It probably would have worked better as a TV-show.
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Dec 28, 2023 01:28
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Guy A. Person posted:I mean yeah that's the thing, like an extra line or two saying like "even with Noble gone, the Motherland might still come back..." with a knowing look thrown in. Sure they could be just going to chill through the harvest and get those g(r)ains but it seems kinda superfluous Her saying that their payments awaits them there was enough for me.
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Dec 28, 2023 01:51
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teagone posted:I enjoyed My Liberation Notes a little while ago; was a pretty affecting family drama that I found pretty relatable. I also really liked Doona! with Bae Suzy playing a washed up k-pop idol If you haven't seen it yet, please watch Vincenzo. It is amazing and also completely insane.
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Dec 28, 2023 02:57
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Ovenmaster posted:Saw this, thought it was pretty terrible. I have no particular opinion of Snyder, and I actually didn’t know it was one of his movies going in. Might have a different view going forward, though… Not every movie is going to be about character growth or learning lessons. Maybe you are not saying that, but it seems like that’s what you want here at least. It is a part 1 though, so the journey isn’t complete. Regarding Kora: we learn most about her in flashbacks and this is where we see how her character for the point she is at now and why she made her initial choice. So her initial growth happens in reflection, though she does go through other changes. Kora tells her story of how her family was killed but then she was raised by the Motherworld, the killers, to be a commander of their forces. She conquered world and killed for the Motherworld and stole resources. She was just like Noble, dressed like Noble. But something changed her to bring her to this point, away from all this. We know she guarded princess Issa, which everyone liked and promised wouldn’t be addicted to conquering like past kings. But Isa died. Now this isn’t completely stated and will likely be in part 2, but it’s heavily implied the Kora was somehow involved with killing the King and his daughter. This is why she’s the number one criminal. This is what pushes her away from the path of conquering to seeking peace in nature and soil. The village girl about to be assaulted likely reminds her of the princess, as it did with Jimmy the robot, and gave her a redemption of sorts. Also Kora starts by thinking she is undeserving of a home and happiness, but after what she thinks is a successful protection of the villages, she thinks it can finally be a good place to stay.
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Dec 28, 2023 03:18
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josh04 posted:If you were "meh" at that you're going to hate this: Yeah, but I would find very funny if after all this speculations the cut parts were really those scenes.
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Dec 28, 2023 13:17
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GoldStandardConure posted:If you haven't seen it yet, please watch Vincenzo. It is amazing and also completely insane. deeply stupid. Watch Kingdom instead.
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Dec 28, 2023 18:38
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YggdrasilTM posted:Yeah, but I would find very funny if after all this speculations the cut parts were really those scenes. I don't expect huge reams of expository dialogue or anything, but look at how the first hour is paced, when there's strictly not much going on in the plot. There's a lot of characters silently interacting by just walking around, standing around, looking at eachother, etc. The first scene of the movie is Gunnar the farmer watching Kora from a distance as she touches the ground for reassurance(?) and then pretending he's only just arrived. That's the exact kind of thing that's missing from the later scenes. Like, it basically cuts directly from the crew's arrival on COBALT MINING PLANET to them already silently riding in an elevator with Nemesis. Something's blatantly missing, even if it's just Nemesis chilling in her house or workplace and then receiving a call about the spider problem.
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Dec 28, 2023 18:42
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Oh, 100%. The biggest evidence something is wrong with the movie is this rhythm and tone disconnection between the two halves. I really think the novelization is doing its own stuff. YggdrasilTM fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Dec 28, 2023 |
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Dec 28, 2023 18:46
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It's an odd thing to speculate on because even the R-rated cut is still just going to be part 1 of the full story. ...when is the R-rated cut of part 2 supposed to come out? I can't search for it without hitting results for part 1 or the part 2 PG-13 release.
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Dec 28, 2023 19:29
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Schwarzwald posted:It's an odd thing to speculate on because even the R-rated cut is still just going to be part 1 of the full story. Nobody knows. We don't even have a concrete answer on the director's cut of part 1, just Snyder saying at a recent fan event "probably summer."
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Dec 28, 2023 19:38
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Schwarzwald posted:It's an odd thing to speculate on because even the R-rated cut is still just going to be part 1 of the full story. 2027
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Dec 28, 2023 19:39
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