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The line “just like spinner wanted” is key here. Shigaraki still values some connections. Deku is gonna remind Shiggy of the power of friendship, then point out that the worst poo poo that happened to all Shigaraki’s friends was because of AfO and his own actions. Bakugu bullied a baby so hard it died and Deku will guilt Shigaraki so hard he commits self die.
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Dec 28, 2023 13:12
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| # ? May 28, 2024 11:33 |
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Deku is going to tell Shiggy "No matter what you do I'll save you!" as Fuji is erupting, the earth's crust starts crumbling, Japan is sinking into the sea, etc, and it will be so stupid Shiggy will accidentally slap his face with all 5 fingers and disintegrate. Like this, but with quirks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQTn1QxCZ2s Indiana_Krom fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Dec 28, 2023 |
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Dec 28, 2023 13:20
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Feels like we're heading towards a "Deku gives up his quirks to save Shigaraki somehow" ending as symbolized by him already starting this final battle out of his hero outfit, losing one of his quirks already, and just now losing one of the last bits of hero gear he had on. I think a lot of how well this ending will land is going to come down to how satisfying Shigaraki being "saved" ends up being. And as someone who really doesn't like Shiggy at all, it's going to take a lot to be satisfied.
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Dec 28, 2023 13:51
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I can't help but contrast how we're supposed to think AfO was just an evil baby from the get go despite being born in the most horrendous circumstances imaginable and forced to fend for himself since he was a literal baby, while we're still meant to have a deep well of sympathy for Shigaraki because he was abused as a child and manipulated into becoming a monster. They both were dealt incredibly terrible lovely garbage hands by a lovely society that didn't care about them and let them fall through the cracks and both of them grew up and made conscious decisions to be evil mass murderers. Why does Shigaraki deserve saving while AfO deserves to be killed? Neither of them are remotely repentant for the horrid poo poo they've done.
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Dec 28, 2023 14:58
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I mean, I don’t entirely disagree that Shigaraki crossed a line a while ago, but Shigaraki was basically molded into becoming a vindictive old man’s petulant gently caress you torwards his then-arch nemesis, whereas AFO just decided he wanted to dominate everything and make an evil empire with like, no nudging and a brother who turned out normal because he’s not twisted. If anything the problem is that the story tried to convince us that he was an evil baby, which is, umm, maybe not a great idea.
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Dec 28, 2023 15:24
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The nudging AfO got to dominate everything was "I was born in a gutter to a poor prostitute who died immediately after I was born and was left in a state of utter desperate privation from the moment I first drew breath and no one ever tried to help me so I helped myself". His brother only had the opportunity to grow up to be "normal" because AfO himself was ruthless and provided for both of them. Without that, well, they're two abandoned babies, they're loving dead. I just really don't think you can try to sell a message of "everyone is a victim of circumstance and even the most monstrous nightmare of a person deserves to be saved no matter how many consciously evil acts they perform because at some point in their past something intensely lovely happened to them that they had no control over and it hosed them up through no fault of their own" and then go "well, except for that guy, he was just Naturally Evil and deserves death". Pick a lane. Kanos fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Dec 28, 2023 |
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Dec 28, 2023 15:47
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the first thing he did after birth was grow fangs and eat his mother. terrible vibes on that baby
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Dec 28, 2023 16:23
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Look, some babies are simply evil and we have to accept that. The whole matter of Shigaraki's redemption will boil down to a question if he was an evil baby or not.
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Dec 28, 2023 16:42
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Kanos posted:The nudging AfO got to dominate everything was "I was born in a gutter to a poor prostitute who died immediately after I was born and was left in a state of utter desperate privation from the moment I first drew breath and no one ever tried to help me so I helped myself". His brother only had the opportunity to grow up to be "normal" because AfO himself was ruthless and provided for both of them. Without that, well, they're two abandoned babies, they're loving dead. I think the major difference is supposed to be desire to change. AFO had a difficult life but at the end of the day he was genuinely happy with who he was and sought to inflict misery on others for his own gains and profit. Maybe his difficult life colored his behavior but he never had any desire to change or stop. He just liked being a giant pile of selfish poo poo. Shigaraki, for all his many, many, MANY crimes, is still at heart someone who wanted to make a better world for his friends and was manipulated, abused and generally hosed up by AfO to the point the only path he saw forward was raw destruction. Deku thinks he can be saved because even now, at the absolute limit of his awfulness, he's still thinking of Spinner. The sheer level of destruction Shigaraki is responsible for makes it kind of hard to empathize but I think at the end of the day it's supposed to come down to that small difference.
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Dec 28, 2023 17:49
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Lt. Lizard posted:Look, some babies are simply evil and we have to accept that. The whole matter of Shigaraki's redemption will boil down to a question if he was an evil baby or not.
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Dec 28, 2023 18:21
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Choose your born. Cute Baby / Evil Baby.
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Dec 28, 2023 19:00
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I mean I think the big difference is one is an old-rear end senior citizen who over decades has repeatedly reaffirmed that he loves evil, being evil, doing evil things, and ruling the world evilly, and the other is like twenty and has spent significant chunks of this story comatose and being brainwashed. the thing about being the super evil secret ruler of the world is that you can actually get off the train anytime. that is less true for the protege whose world and life you have controlled since he was like six and whose body you are trying to orochimaru. e: like one point horikoshi (who I don't really like as a writer) actually has made repeatedly is that shigaraki was failed repeatedly multiple times by multiple people as a child and even himself believes he probably could have been okay if he hadn't been systematically poo poo on at every turn and given a murder power that made him accidentally kill his dog and his sister. Then after that there's several days where he was an obviously hosed up and suffering homeless kid getting ignored by everyone, until he got picked up by The Devil who repeatedly retraumatized him with his dead family's corpses, and then he spent like a decade getting trained to be a living weapon and revenge on society by The Evilest Man Ever, and then the story starts, with him still wearing his dead family's corpses and being super super normal and lucid. the 100+ year old man who restructured society in his image starts the story in a slightly different position. the reason deku believes he can still reach the child tenko shimura is because AFO put in a lot of time and effort to keep shigaraki permanently mentally at that point. Valentin fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Dec 28, 2023 |
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Dec 28, 2023 19:15
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Shigaraki has bad vibes as well, imo.
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Dec 28, 2023 19:34
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Toga and Dabi? Evil babies. Twice? Evil baby too. All of Nagant and Hawks' government sanctioned murder targets? Evil babies yet again! Everyone can be saved, except evil babies, luckily everyone who would ever need to be saved is an evil baby. Good thing too, because otherwise we might have to reexamine our biases. Most Japanese ending.
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Dec 28, 2023 19:50
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Hawks kills an evil baby: bad, unbecoming of a hero Explosion Murder God kills an evil baby: yayyyy!
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Dec 28, 2023 20:50
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well, that's kind of a key bit here: horikoshi is a coward because bakugo doesn't actually kill that baby. He just parries his last move and stands there while the baby dies. this is why he is rightfully denied all might's victory pose. all might would've absolutely pasted that evil baby. Valentin fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Dec 28, 2023 |
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Dec 28, 2023 21:06
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TheHan posted:Hawks kills an evil baby: bad, unbecoming of a hero Darn right
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Dec 28, 2023 22:35
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I think Toga and Dabi are probably going to live tbh
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Dec 28, 2023 22:43
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toga's a definite maybe, but dabi? he's literally a skeleton with hair at this point.
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Dec 28, 2023 23:00
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I think he's gonna make it
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Dec 28, 2023 23:01
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Toga's alive, but it would be very funny if she was not
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Dec 28, 2023 23:02
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Valentin posted:well, that's kind of a key bit here: horikoshi is a coward because bakugo doesn't actually kill that baby. He just parries his last move and stands there while the baby dies. I think AFO's last conscious seconds being a showing of how utterly powerless he is in the end is a good finish too
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Dec 28, 2023 23:03
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Arist posted:Toga's alive, but it would be very funny if she was not I would be sad actually
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Dec 28, 2023 23:04
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All Dabi needs is a kiss with tongue from Recovery Girl and he'll be right as rain
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Dec 28, 2023 23:05
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Dabi surviving would be some One Piece-tier bullshit. It doesn't make sense at all that anyone could survive that and what would even be the point? So he could be a paraplegic in prison for his whole life and Horikoshi can wring a teeny weeny bit more drama out of the Todoroki family? Let him die and serve as a contrast with Shoto and Toga that sometimes damaged people just can't recover no matter how much you want them to. Toga dying would loving suck and be the most cowardly way to resolve her plot.
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Dec 28, 2023 23:20
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Dabi failing to kill his whole family in a suicidal final attack and instead be cursed to live out the rest of his life as a blind, paraplegic burnt out husk would be the most Dabi way his story could end.
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Dec 28, 2023 23:28
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Rhonne posted:Dabi failing to kill his whole family in a suicidal final attack and instead be cursed to live out the rest of his life as a blind, paraplegic burnt out husk would be the most Dabi way his story could end. Agreed.
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Dec 28, 2023 23:35
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ImpAtom posted:I think the major difference is supposed to be desire to change. AFO had a difficult life but at the end of the day he was genuinely happy with who he was and sought to inflict misery on others for his own gains and profit. Maybe his difficult life colored his behavior but he never had any desire to change or stop. He just liked being a giant pile of selfish poo poo. Shigaraki is genuinely happy to kill people and destroy things. Every time he's smiling widest is when he's just swiped his hand through a crowd of dudes or is currently in the process of decaying something, and the only times he gets angry and annoyed are when people are stopping him from doing those things. At no point is he ever shown truly enjoying anything else, and every single moment in the series that we spend time with Shigaraki he's either destroying things or working on a plan to destroy things in the future. The entire training arc in the mountains was to get Gigantomachia so they could destroy things. The closest thing to humanization we get for adult Shigaraki is when he takes over Detnerat and treats his buddies to some sushi, which is like two panels long and also part of him taking over the liberation front to better enable him to destroy things. There is precisely zero indication that Shigaraki wants to do anything with his life other than mass murder and destruction - there's no goal at the end of the rainbow that he has to kill people and destroy things to achieve and if only there was an alternative to killing and destroying to achieve that goal he could use those alternatives, because his only goal is "everyone is dead and society is in ruins". His current plan is "literally blow up Japan". I don't really see any indication he wanted to make a better world for anyone at any point. He's very clear that his thought process is that everything is hosed up and lovely, so he's going to destroy everything. There's no plan for a reformed society or a better life for villains or anything. The only one who seemed to have that kind of thing in mind was Spinner, who was specifically sidelined more and more until he was left with nothing but a vague "gee golly gawrsh I sure do hope Shigaraki is working on that 'reform' thing, I haven't talked to him in ages" before being turned into an ogre and used as a suicide missile by AfO. Shigaraki is thinking of Spinner the same way AfO was thinking of his brother - a warped distortion of that person who happens to align perfectly with what Shigaraki/AfO want to do, which is destroy everything/control everything. Kanos fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Dec 29, 2023 |
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Dec 29, 2023 00:20
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Rhonne posted:Dabi failing to kill his whole family in a suicidal final attack and instead be cursed to live out the rest of his life as a blind, paraplegic burnt out husk would be the most Dabi way his story could end. the darkest, saddest lol
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Dec 29, 2023 00:22
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Shigaraki is all nihilism while AFO was all ego and arrogance. Shigs wants to destroy the world because he hates it, AFO wants to be like Underworld ruler of the globe and destroying society is just how he'll get to doing that. Their way of thinking is not very similar at all.
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Dec 29, 2023 00:22
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shiggy's actions are so cartoonishly reprehensible and he literally dares you to try and see the good in him. if i didn't believe in deku i'd be begging for him to get his head pasted.
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Dec 29, 2023 01:43
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The only way I can really buy Shiggy being "saved" is if he has a complete 11th hour turnaround and possibly sacrifices himself to save others, rather than being conventionally "saved" and rehabilitated. To touch on Horikoshi's favorite movie series, Shiggy's in the Darth Vader role here(reprehensible monster who shows no remorse or desire for redemption for the entire series until the very end) and Deku's in the Luke role(hero who believes in the hidden goodness of the reprehensible monster despite all evidence to the contrary). Kanos fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Dec 29, 2023 |
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Dec 29, 2023 02:25
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Shigaraki at this point, is like if Guts wanted to save Griffith and Berserk ends with them smiling and hugging.
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Dec 29, 2023 02:35
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I think Beserk and MHA are far different stories with such significantly different ideas and themes being explored through their main vilains and their relationship with the protagonists that any attempt to genuinely compare them would be a massive disservice to both (particularly Beserk because y'know it's a lot better at actually landing what it's going for).
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Dec 29, 2023 02:39
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I think Beserk and MHA are far different stories with such significantly different ideas and themes being explored through their main vilains and their relationship with the protagonists that any attempt to genuinely compare them would be a massive disservice to both (particularly Beserk because y'know it's a lot better at actually landing what it's going for). You're right, Griffith has much more compelling motivations and a full and non-lethal redemption would be a lot more interesting.
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Dec 29, 2023 03:10
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Kanos posted:The only way I can really buy Shiggy being "saved" is if he has a complete 11th hour turnaround and possibly sacrifices himself to save others, rather than being conventionally "saved" and rehabilitated. At the point we're at Deku holding on to the idea of saving Shigaraki makes him seem like a complete moron.
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Dec 29, 2023 03:26
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I think Beserk and MHA are far different stories with such significantly different ideas and themes being explored through their main vilains and their relationship with the protagonists that any attempt to genuinely compare them would be a massive disservice to both (particularly Beserk because y'know it's a lot better at actually landing what it's going for). Yes, it's a huge contrast, because Griffith we saw how he could be human and still have a dream that meant doing inhuman things to get it. Shigaraki has been displayed for the better part of the series as a monster with just the desire to wreck poo poo.
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Dec 29, 2023 03:28
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Kanos posted:The only way I can really buy Shiggy being "saved" is if he has a complete 11th hour turnaround and possibly sacrifices himself to save others, rather than being conventionally "saved" and rehabilitated. I think it's amazing horikoshi set up All for One as the palpatine just to double down and say no, shiggy sucks that much. i can't wait to see how he plans to resolve this. TheHan fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Dec 29, 2023 |
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Dec 29, 2023 03:30
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Kanos posted:The only way I can really buy Shiggy being "saved" is if he has a complete 11th hour turnaround and possibly sacrifices himself to save others, rather than being conventionally "saved" and rehabilitated. Yeah but Darth Vader dying rather than having to live with his actual redemption kinda blew and it double blew when it happened with his grandkid. Someone surviving their change of heart and having to actually follow through instead of dying in the process is infinitely a more interesting plot beat.
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Dec 29, 2023 05:44
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| # ? May 28, 2024 11:33 |
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Shiggy should accidentally get his grandma and then gets his soul spanked until the end of time. Everyone just looks away awkwardly as yet another big bad is reduced to baby mode.
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Dec 29, 2023 07:57
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