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Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007

Human.Frank posted:

The paranoid drunks line comes from the heads of the CIA who were trying to discredit people who claimed to have experienced Havana syndrome, so people who say that poo poo are parroting the official CIA narrative. Personally, I like to think twice before holding the same views as creepy fucks like that but who am I to tell others what to think, I can only criticize their posts.

"holding the same views as creepy fucks like that" oh shut up, like the person who holds a view is what makes it bad and not the view itself.

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Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007
the CIA really cares about discrediting people with Havana Syndrome which is why they fired all of them with cause instead of giving them all paid vacations for their tummy aches

Zhulik
Nov 14, 2012

The Montreal Star

Human.Frank posted:

The paranoid drunks line comes from the heads of the CIA who were trying to discredit people who claimed to have experienced Havana syndrome, so people who say that poo poo are parroting the official CIA narrative.

seems like there is a lot i dont know about, "havana syndrome"

Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007
think vegetarianism is cool? know who else did??

Engorged Pedipalps
Apr 21, 2023
Hitler really loved dogs and that's why I always have a roundhouse heel smash and a broken brick ready to go

Private Cumshoe
Feb 15, 2019

AAAAAAAGAGHAAHGGAH
Hitler had a soft, gentle side more people should talk about really

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010



Perry Mason Jar posted:

Does anyone know something about the book?

The movie is some sort of psy-op. It's worth watching for the fact that clearly Obama is tapdancing in blood, to see the mask pulled that far backwards. Otherwise, it's a terrible movie. Just awful.

my normie-rear end sister was telling me about it and said that the fact that the obamas produced it and that obama apparently said he included stuff he had "learned about during his presidency" terrified her (my sister) lol

e: then my mom shut down the conversation because she didn't want to hear anything bad being said about obama

Entorwellian
Jun 30, 2006

Northern Flicker
Anna's Hummingbird

Sorry, but the people have spoken.



Shear Modulus posted:

my normie-rear end sister was telling me about it and said that the fact that the obamas produced it and that obama apparently said he included stuff he had "learned about during his presidency" terrified her (my sister) lol


Probably that he has a bunker that has nothing except for old dvds of Friends for when the US is under attack, all ready to go.

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

Shear Modulus posted:

e: then my mom shut down the conversation because she didn't want to hear anything bad being said about obama
operation mom

Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007

Entorwellian posted:

Probably that he has a bunker that has nothing except for old dvds of Friends for when the US is under attack, all ready to go.

that ending lets you know exactly where his head is at and why he governed the way he did: "there is nothing to be done, we are doomed, enjoy the entertainment while you can"

Dr. Jerrold Coe
Feb 6, 2021

Is it me?

Private Cumshoe posted:

Hitler had a soft, gentle side more people should talk about really

hitler's catchphrase was ohana, which means family

blatman
May 10, 2009

14 inc dont mez


just because im a paranoid drunk doesnt mean im not also being targetted by brain lasers

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Human.Frank posted:

The paranoid drunks line comes from the heads of the CIA

do you have a source for this?

mycomancy
Oct 16, 2016

Human.Frank posted:

The paranoid drunks line comes from the heads of the CIA who were trying to discredit people who claimed to have experienced Havana syndrome, so people who say that poo poo are parroting the official CIA narrative. Personally, I like to think twice before holding the same views as creepy fucks like that but who am I to tell others what to think, I can only criticize their posts.

gently caress off, moron.

Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008

Don't trust the liberals,
they will betray you

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

"holding the same views as creepy fucks like that" oh shut up, like the person who holds a view is what makes it bad and not the view itself.

This strategy of discrediting views is very popular with the CIA.

Oh you think Clinton had sex with underage sex slaves on Epstein's island, you must be a looney q-anon believer.

Azathoth
Apr 3, 2001

Marenghi posted:

This strategy of discrediting views is very popular with the CIA.

Oh you think Clinton had sex with underage sex slaves on Epstein's island, you must be a looney q-anon believer.

If the Q conspiracy wasn't outright created by some 3 letter agency, they absolutely hijacked it very early on and actively pushed it to such absurdities in a direct effort to make anyone who says that elites rape children look like one of the crazies who believes JFK Jr. is still alive and Tom Hanks has been replaced with a clone.

fanfic insert
Nov 4, 2009
Q has a trifecta of it being a completely spontaneously created internet psychosis being hijacked the 3 letter agencies and people in the trump campaign thinking they can dogwhistle it into being useful, it's beautiful, art.

my bony fealty
Oct 1, 2008

Azathoth posted:

If the Q conspiracy wasn't outright created by some 3 letter agency, they absolutely hijacked it very early on and actively pushed it to such absurdities in a direct effort to make anyone who says that elites rape children look like one of the crazies who believes JFK Jr. is still alive and Tom Hanks has been replaced with a clone.

a 3 letter agency or a private intelligence company. lines are blurry now. someone like Michael Flynn is a good example, DIA guy with ties to all sorts of shady extragovernmental groups who is both playing a character in the Q op and somewhat of a true believer himself. spot on with the goal though.

Azathoth
Apr 3, 2001

my bony fealty posted:

a 3 letter agency or a private intelligence company. lines are blurry now. someone like Michael Flynn is a good example, DIA guy with ties to all sorts of shady extragovernmental groups who is both playing a character in the Q op and somewhat of a true believer himself. spot on with the goal though.

Yeah, that's fair. I tend to subsume those people under the various agencies, even if they aren't on the payroll directly, since I still think that the agencies are the spine of the network. They're not necessarily driving the goal but they link things together and, most importantly, give official cover to the extragovernmental groups operating within a given country's borders.

Pretzel Rod Serling
Aug 6, 2008



Perry Mason Jar posted:

Does anyone know something about the book?

yeah it’s not about that poo poo at all. it’s like a mid-apocalypse domestic thriller-lite but you don’t get anything but hints from the (omniscient) narrator about what is actually going on, it’s just this family of AirBnB renters stuck out in the Long Island sticks with the home’s owners and the sense that something unknowably dreadful has happened.

I found it really affecting honestly because so much of it is internal dialogue.

ultimately I think its politics are generically liberal, as there’s a little bit of race and class tension between both parties but no judgment passed on whatever happened (except “it’s sad people are dying somewhere and they don’t know why”); anything spooky is probably what Obama et al brought to it

Dokapon Findom
Dec 5, 2022

But have you considered whether the child murdered by the driver of that truck was riding an oversized bike?!?! Children riding oversized bikes are the scourge of our roadways!!

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

"holding the same views as creepy fucks like that" oh shut up, like the person who holds a view is what makes it bad and not the view itself.

Yeah I really hate this poo poo, for me it annihilates the credibility of the person saying it

You're supposed to react with "Oh... I'd better fall in line, then." :ohdear: Wouldn't want to accidentally agree with a chud or something (and therefore be "platforming fascism" or whatever the thought-terminating bugaboo is meant to be)

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

I was reading this new paper, A latent profile approach to the study of conspiracy belief: Identifying the role of executive functioning. they found, among other things:

quote:

Executive functioning plays a pivotal role in shaping an individual's inclination towards or resistance against conspiracy beliefs. Enhanced cognitive flexibility and working memory enables individuals to critically assess information rather than rigidly subscribing to a singular viewpoint, likely fostering resistance to conspiratorial thinking
so here is the scale they used:

quote:

There is often debate about whether or not the public is told the whole truth about various important issues. This brief survey is designed to assess your beliefs about some of these subjects. Please indicate the degree to which you believe each statement is likely to be true on the
following scale: Definitely not true; Probably not true; Not sure/cannot decide; Probably true; Definitely true

  1. The government is involved in the murder of innocent citizens and/or well-known public figures, and keeps this a secret
  2. The power held by heads of state is second to that of small unknown groups who really control world politics
  3. Secret organizations communicate with extraterrestrials, but keep this fact from the public
  4. The spread of certain viruses and/or diseases is the result of the deliberate, concealed efforts of some organization
  5. Groups of scientists manipulate, fabricate, or suppress evidence in order to deceive the public
  6. The government permits or perpetrates acts of terrorism on its own soil, disguising its involvement
  7. A small, secret group of people is responsible for making all major world decisions, such as going to war
  8. Evidence of alien contact is being concealed from the public
  9. Technology with mind-control capacities is used on people without their knowledge
  10. New and advanced technology which would harm current industry is being suppressed
  11. The government uses people as patsies to hide its involvement in criminal activity
  12. Certain significant events have been the result of the activity of a small group who secretly manipulate world events
  13. Some UFO sightings and rumors are planned or staged in order to distract the public from real alien contact
  14. Experiments involving new drugs or technologies are routinely carried out on the public without their knowledge or consent
  15. A lot of important information is deliberately concealed from the public out of self-interest

hi, im nuts and stupid, please to meet you!

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




study shows smart guys dont believe conspiracies. you're smart, right? sure you are, champ!

Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019

Human.Frank posted:

The paranoid drunks line comes from the heads of the CIA who were trying to discredit people who claimed to have experienced Havana syndrome, so people who say that poo poo are parroting the official CIA narrative. Personally, I like to think twice before holding the same views as creepy fucks like that but who am I to tell others what to think, I can only criticize their posts.

either they’re drunks who can’t handle their booze and I’m gonna make fun of them for it, or china really does have brain melting guns and I’m gonna hoot and holler for that too

FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022

Trabisnikof posted:

do you have a source for this?

invisible voices speaking memories into existence

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

this is fun! so taking a wide view of "government" here, because it seems unfair to exclude the Italians just because they're not my government and also including historical facts because it was "conspiratorial thinking" at the time even if it is just truth now


  1. The government is involved in the murder of innocent citizens and/or well-known public figures, and keeps this a secret
    Yes, established historical fact

  2. The power held by heads of state is second to that of small unknown groups who really control world politics
    No, only because the group is large, diffuse, and in the open

  3. Secret organizations communicate with extraterrestrials, but keep this fact from the public
    No, sorry bird thread

  4. The spread of certain viruses and/or diseases is the result of the deliberate, concealed efforts of some organization
    Yes, established historical fact

  5. Groups of scientists manipulate, fabricate, or suppress evidence in order to deceive the public
    Yes, established historical fact

  6. The government permits or perpetrates acts of terrorism on its own soil, disguising its involvement
    Yes, established historical fact

  7. A small, secret group of people is responsible for making all major world decisions, such as going to war
    No, only because the group is large, diffuse, and in the open

  8. Evidence of alien contact is being concealed from the public
    No, sorry bird thread

  9. Technology with mind-control capacities is used on people without their knowledge
    Not for effective "mind-control" but yes for ineffective "mind-control" again, we have that as an established historical fact

  10. New and advanced technology which would harm current industry is being suppressed
    Yes, established historical fact

  11. The government uses people as patsies to hide its involvement in criminal activity
    Yes, established historical fact

  12. Certain significant events have been the result of the activity of a small group who secretly manipulate world events
    Like, does the black hand count? Does the college of cardinals picking the pope count? what about the official 9/11 narrative, sure sounds like Al Qaeda secretly manipulated a significant world event? seems blatantly true even in the official history books...

  13. Some UFO sightings and rumors are planned or staged in order to distract the public from real alien contact
    No, sorry bird thread but they probably were planned or staged in order to distract people from more mundane activities

  14. Experiments involving new drugs or technologies are routinely carried out on the public without their knowledge or consent
    Yes, established historical fact

  15. A lot of important information is deliberately concealed from the public out of self-interest
    Yes, established historical fact

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010



technology with effective mind control capabilities is used on the public all the time, it's called TV

Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008

Don't trust the liberals,
they will betray you

Trabisnikof posted:

Some UFO sightings and rumors are planned or staged in order to distract the public from real alien contact
No, sorry bird thread but they probably were planned or staged in order to distract people from more mundane activities

We know now a lot of the early UFO sightings were DoD spy planes, early drones and silent helicopter prototypes.

Even Area 51 isn't as secret as it once was. The maps for that area used to be blank, but now you can view it in limited resolution on Google Maps.
The above ground construction is mostly runways, some which connect to what look like large underground entrances. Who knows what's in the actual below ground complex, but the above looks very much like what would be expected of a testing zone for aircraft.

Spergin Morlock
Aug 8, 2009

Marenghi posted:

We know now a lot of the early UFO sightings were DoD spy planes, early drones and silent helicopter prototypes.

Even Area 51 isn't as secret as it once was. The maps for that area used to be blank, but now you can view it in limited resolution on Google Maps.
The above ground construction is mostly runways, some which connect to what look like large underground entrances. Who knows what's in the actual below ground complex, but the above looks very much like what would be expected of a testing zone for aircraft.

that makes me wonder if there's a Russian equivalent of Google maps that doesn't blur things the US would prefer to be blurred

Private Cumshoe
Feb 15, 2019

AAAAAAAGAGHAAHGGAH

Real hurthling! posted:

study shows smart guys dont believe conspiracies. you're smart, right? sure you are, champ!

lmao

Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019

Shear Modulus posted:

technology with effective mind control capabilities is used on the public all the time, it's called TV

what’s a tv I say as I scroll social media network of choice

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Shear Modulus posted:

technology with effective mind control capabilities is used on the public all the time, it's called TV

No, it's called...my words :twisted:

Dokapon Findom
Dec 5, 2022

But have you considered whether the child murdered by the driver of that truck was riding an oversized bike?!?! Children riding oversized bikes are the scourge of our roadways!!

Real hurthling! posted:

study shows smart guys dont believe conspiracies. you're smart, right? sure you are, champ!

I mean it sure is nice of them to put all of the true things together in one list in case there was any doubt about these suspiciously specific denials

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

mawarannahr posted:

I was reading this new paper, A latent profile approach to the study of conspiracy belief: Identifying the role of executive functioning. they found, among other things:

so here is the scale they used:

  1. The government is involved in the murder of innocent citizens and/or well-known public figures, and keeps this a secret
  2. The power held by heads of state is second to that of small unknown groups who really control world politics
  3. Secret organizations communicate with extraterrestrials, but keep this fact from the public
  4. The spread of certain viruses and/or diseases is the result of the deliberate, concealed efforts of some organization
  5. Groups of scientists manipulate, fabricate, or suppress evidence in order to deceive the public
  6. The government permits or perpetrates acts of terrorism on its own soil, disguising its involvement
  7. A small, secret group of people is responsible for making all major world decisions, such as going to war
  8. Evidence of alien contact is being concealed from the public
  9. Technology with mind-control capacities is used on people without their knowledge
  10. New and advanced technology which would harm current industry is being suppressed
  11. The government uses people as patsies to hide its involvement in criminal activity
  12. Certain significant events have been the result of the activity of a small group who secretly manipulate world events
  13. Some UFO sightings and rumors are planned or staged in order to distract the public from real alien contact
  14. Experiments involving new drugs or technologies are routinely carried out on the public without their knowledge or consent
  15. A lot of important information is deliberately concealed from the public out of self-interest

hi, im nuts and stupid, please to meet you!

yeah I pretty much 100% believe each one. some of these beliefs even have proof attached

Human.Frank
Jun 2, 2022

Trabisnikof posted:

do you have a source for this?

Absolutely not. Sorry for the derail everyone, I won't post about The Syndrome again until more info comes out next year and the name gets changed (hopefully). It's sad the good people of Havana are associated with it.

Human.Frank has issued a correction as of 02:06 on Dec 29, 2023

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"
Hey, don't worry about the derail, I'm sure there's state department employees absolutely chuffed that you're protecting their good names.

Dr. Jerrold Coe
Feb 6, 2021

Is it me?
why does it feel like the ufo thread all of a sudden ...

bawk
Mar 31, 2013

Marenghi posted:

We know now a lot of the early UFO sightings were DoD spy planes, early drones and silent helicopter prototypes.

Even Area 51 isn't as secret as it once was. The maps for that area used to be blank, but now you can view it in limited resolution on Google Maps.
The above ground construction is mostly runways, some which connect to what look like large underground entrances. Who knows what's in the actual below ground complex, but the above looks very much like what would be expected of a testing zone for aircraft.

crazy that they spent all that time building an airstrip so they could cover up what's really happening there :tinfoil:

in all seriousness, i went looking on wikipedia to find out when area 51 was even really a thing and learned something new today

quote:

Environmental lawsuit
In 1994, five unnamed civilian contractors and the widows of contractors Walter Kasza and Robert Frost sued the Air Force and the United States Environmental Protection Agency. They alleged that they had been present when large quantities of unknown chemicals had been burned in open pits and trenches at Groom. Rutgers University biochemists analyzed biopsies from the complainants and found high levels of dioxin, dibenzofuran, and trichloroethylene in their body fat. The complainants alleged that they had sustained skin, liver, and respiratory injuries due to their work at Groom and that this had contributed to the deaths of Frost and Kasza. The suit sought compensation for the injuries, claiming that the Air Force had illegally handled toxic materials and that the EPA had failed in its duty to enforce the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act which governs the handling of dangerous materials. They also sought detailed information about the chemicals, hoping that this would facilitate the medical treatment of survivors.[56] Congressman Lee H. Hamilton, former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, told 60 Minutes reporter Lesley Stahl, "The Air Force is classifying all information about Area 51 in order to protect themselves from a lawsuit."[57]

The government invoked the State Secrets Privilege and petitioned U.S. District Judge Philip Pro to disallow disclosure of classified documents or examination of secret witnesses, claiming that this would expose classified information and threaten national security.[58] Judge Pro rejected the government's argument, so President Bill Clinton issued a Presidential Determination exempting what it called "the Air Force's Operating Location Near Groom Lake, Nevada" from environmental disclosure laws. Consequently, Pro dismissed the suit due to lack of evidence. Turley appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit on the grounds that the government was abusing its power to classify material. Secretary of the Air Force Sheila E. Widnall filed a brief which stated that disclosures of the materials present in the air and water near Groom "can reveal military operational capabilities or the nature and scope of classified operations." The Ninth Circuit rejected Turley's appeal[59] and the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear it, putting an end to the complainants' case.[56]

The President annually issues a determination continuing the Groom exception[60][61][62] which is the only formal recognition that the government has ever given that Groom Lake is more than simply another part of the Nellis complex. An unclassified memo on the safe handling of F-117 Nighthawk material was posted on an Air Force web site in 2005. This discussed the same materials for which the complainants had requested information, which the government had claimed was classified. The memo was removed shortly after journalists became aware of it.[63]

blatman
May 10, 2009

14 inc dont mez


Dr. Jerrold Coe posted:

why does it feel like the ufo thread all of a sudden ...

what ufo thread

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Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019

Dr. Jerrold Coe posted:

why does it feel like the ufo thread all of a sudden ...

new info dump, so taint the proven, material crimes of class society with woo and write the whole thing off as the domain of fools and cranks

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