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Ok so I'm someone who never really got into any mmo growing up besides maplestory; I got to level 18ish in both wow and ff11 and got bored. I didn't know how to socialize and only maplestory let me keep playing solo. Then I got into ff14 but I only got to level 30 when it was just a realm reborn, it took until shadowbringers for me to fall in love with it (and only years after that to even reach shadowbringers =p). But I describe it as a singleplayer ff game with an mmo tacked on so it makes sense folks who want the mmo game part aren't gonna be super enthused by it. But we're in the mmo thread we're all nerds here. I think the appeal is things ive read about where you've got comradery with strangers over a big open world and weird big events like the stories I hear about wow from my wow vet friend. But the game mechanics that allow for that kind of stuff are dated and solved, sorta? and that video about the social aspect is true too, the internet has changed. But like, to recreate an old mmo experience you'd need a lot of money and also im not sure you could make it back because the stuff that makes 14 able to make all the money is it's easy, the focus is cosmetics, and there's a cool story everyone can gather around the metaphorical watercooler to talk about. I kinda wanna try an old style mmo with friends myself, but I don't really have friends who wanna do that. Nor do I think I really have the time to either. Im not sure I have the patience either and might just be bored by it like I was as a kid. Though I did enjoy some elements of Eureka in ff14 when I played that and im told thats the old mmo experience. My favourite moments in ff14 though have been doing blue mage raiding and I had a lot of fun gathering spells last summer for a few hours and I can imagine an entire game being a blue mage in a big open world could be a lot of fun to play with friends. Or at least a chunk of it being that. I don't know if such a game could be possible though.
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Dec 28, 2023 19:49
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There's a big difference between a story where something happens in the game world affecting everyone (if they choose to pay attention), which is what Eve Online does, and where you run through what is essentially a single-player story which happens to a thousand different players, which is what FFXIV does. And while FFXIV is far from the only MMO to do this, it feels like a bigger part of the game than in other MMOs I have played. I like FFXIV though. I like group content and I like the content to be fairly easy because I'm a casual player and also old.
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Dec 28, 2023 21:33
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Ledgem posted:I think the appeal is things ive read about where you've got comradery with strangers over a big open world and weird big events like the stories I hear about wow from my wow vet friend. what did happen was, you talked to people for content that requires grouping, and sometimes those people were funny or even good at the game, so you invited them to your irc channel and then you played together, and sometimes you even stayed friends after the game was dead and the same still happens now, except most people moved from irc to discord i guess
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Dec 28, 2023 22:42
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settle this disagreement with a 1v1 pvp fight in ffxiv. last player to fall asleep wins
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Dec 28, 2023 23:27
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xiv has maybe the only form of mmo pvp that I've actually really enjoyed which is funny to think about warhammer was worse about healer/tank stacking making poo poo really unfun but it did have its moments
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Dec 29, 2023 01:00
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xiv pvp is... well idk if it's bad, i don't have a bad time playing it, but i probably wouldn't be doing it at all if not for the rewards. whereas in gw2, i do play wvw just for the sake of playing wvw
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Dec 29, 2023 01:28
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crystaline conflict in ffxiv is pretty fun but frontlines are maximum jank
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Dec 29, 2023 02:13
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Truga posted:it basically never happened like that You left out the cybering and the guild drama.
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Dec 29, 2023 02:45
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sending tells to clerics during the ch chain and screenshotting the resulting mistells to use as dirt to get priority loot
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Dec 29, 2023 02:50
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blatman posted:sending tells to clerics during the ch chain and screenshotting the resulting mistells to use as dirt to get priority loot Wh- what?
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Dec 29, 2023 02:53
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Well poo poo. I was about to type up the story about the creepy old dude who was pretending to be female and flirting/cybering with guild leadership back in Vanilla WoW, but I realized that I am now as old as the creepy old guy. gently caress.
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Dec 29, 2023 02:55
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Truga posted:xiv pvp is... well idk if it's bad, i don't have a bad time playing it, but i probably wouldn't be doing it at all if not for the rewards. whereas in gw2, i do play wvw just for the sake of playing wvw It's a genuinely well-considered system that's primarily held back by the game's poor handling of latency and the comparatively small PVP population that's split up across multiple data centers. I enjoyed my time with it when it first came out, but those issues made it hard for me to commit any further when there's already a plethora of excellent PVP experiences outside the MMO space.
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Dec 29, 2023 02:59
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Not letting you queue with your friends.. just insane. Who gives a rat's rear end about win trading among the top teams, why would you ever deliberately cut the social element of the MMO's pvp?
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Dec 29, 2023 03:24
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Doom Rooster posted:You left out the cybering and the guild drama. i somehow avoided both of those
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Dec 29, 2023 03:28
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30.5 Days posted:Wh- what? ch chain is when you have a number of clerics casting complete heal (10 second cast) on the main tank in sequence until the boss dies, this long cast time meant the clerics had a whole lot of effective downtime during boss fights to cyber the druids sometimes it was the main tank cybering one of the druids but you could guarantee with 100% accuracy that at least one of your main roster clerics was cybering one or more druids edit: you send them a tell mid-fight so that when they hit R to reply to the druid, it instead goes to you (you are one of the mages that's equally bored dropping mod rods in the corner but far more stoned than the clerics or druids) blatman fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Dec 29, 2023 |
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Dec 29, 2023 03:53
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what did they say when they replied to you by mistake? like the gist of it
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Dec 29, 2023 04:32
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Kevin Bacon posted:what did they say when they replied to you by mistake? like the gist of it unf unf unf unf
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Dec 29, 2023 04:34
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usually "sorry mt", a lot of apologizing or a lot of cursing or some combination, sometimes they'd just alt f4 and they might not log back in i was joking around about this in a group once and one of the guys looked me up a week later to tell me he used my strategy to discover his wife was e-cheating on him
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Dec 29, 2023 04:39
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You just reminded me of a time in this friendly DAOC guild I was in when this old lady randomly dropped the raunchiest cyber text I could imagine to the entire guild by accident. She tried to play if off in a 'I was just seeing what kind of reaction I would get' at first but it was way too.... specific and she was always super friendly and polite to everyone and had never even told a dirty joke that I knew about.
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Dec 29, 2023 04:55
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Truga posted:if you're gonna skip the story then just don't play it No because the book doesn't force me to finish it before going to the pub with my mates. Like, I get it, the story is the main selling point of FFXIV (although, really, the story is only good if you compare it to other MMOs. Compared to gaming generally, I don't think it's that great). But it should be no surprise people don't like having to trudge through a hundred or-so hours to get to the point they can start doing meaningful content with their friends (and also the 'good' part of the story). It's also not even about getting better friends, until you reach certain points in the expansion 99% of the content is solo content and cannot be played with others. The 1% is mandatory dungeons that you need to run through once. quote:i have over 5000 hours in ff14 and less than 500 are in single player content The argument isn't that there is no multiplayer content, but rather that the multiplayer content is gated behind the single player content. If you're looking to play an MMO, that's a pretty tough pill to swallow. EDIT: Obviously this is mostly an issue for people who only started last expansion or now, as they have to catch up to hundreds of hours of content whereas people who joined earlier got bite-size releases over the years. I wonder if they're going to change anything with the new expansion. rkd_ fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Dec 29, 2023 |
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Dec 29, 2023 05:34
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i have friends who started way late and they're having fun playing because we play together and are in no hurry to rush to level 90 content because there's shitloads of content you can do in the other 89 levels. it just means you'll have more classes leveled when you finally finish endwalker, which doesn't sound like a huge deal to me idk e: like, i get that having a 30+ hour tutorial for babby's first MMO is annoying for bitter vets, but also it's one of the games huge strong points, because it has ridiculous new player retention, unlike every single other mmo i've ever played, and you can now buy a thing to skip the entire thing if you really, really want to only play raids Truga fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Dec 29, 2023 |
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Dec 29, 2023 05:56
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it's fine to not like the premise of going through a whole rear end final fantasy game to unlock the mmo parts in fragments, because that's what it is. it's servicing two audiences of largely different people that are willing to compromise on some bits for more of what they like, provided they like the bits that are retained and not discarded when putting the two together
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Dec 29, 2023 06:00
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Mister Olympus posted:it's fine to not like the premise of going through a whole rear end, bottom tier final fantasy game to unlock the mmo parts in fragments, because that's what it is.
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Dec 29, 2023 06:04
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every other final fantasy i've tried playing has been worse than 14 so i guess it's the best final fantasy
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Dec 29, 2023 06:06
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Truga posted:every other final fantasy i've tried playing has been worse than 14 so i guess it's the best final fantasy I don’t think that I’ve played a Final Fantasy that was worse than the first 50 or so levels of XIV. That’s the problem.
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Dec 29, 2023 06:17
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it's definitely still by far the worst part of ff14, but it's not nearly as bad as it used to be because a lot of fat got trimmed out of msq, and you don't need other sources of xp at all anymore so you're not randomly hit by the red quest marker telling you to go away for half an hour before you can continue
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Dec 29, 2023 06:24
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Truga posted:it's definitely still by far the worst part of ff14, but it's not nearly as bad as it used to be because a lot of fat got trimmed out of msq, and you don't need other sources of xp at all anymore so you're not randomly hit by the red quest marker telling you to go away for half an hour before you can continue People keep saying this, and I believe it, but holy poo poo is that damning with faint praise. Really slow ability gain, turning OFF many of your abilities in leveling dungeons, utterly faceroll difficulty of everything, so much backtracking, So. Many. Fetch. Quests. It’s just so, so bad still.
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Dec 29, 2023 06:32
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I wish they trimmed even more fat because there really still are a whole lot of quests the player could do without and not miss anything in relation to the story. This is true for some sections of later expansions too.Truga posted:i have friends who started way late and they're having fun playing because we play together and are in no hurry to rush to level 90 content because there's shitloads of content you can do in the other 89 levels. it just means you'll have more classes leveled when you finally finish endwalker, which doesn't sound like a huge deal to me idk Sure, but I bet that the majority of the players who quit aren't in the situation your friends are in. Even if they are, the ARR slog remains so I bet people who make it to the point they can play together are at least appreciating the campaign somewhat.
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Dec 29, 2023 06:42
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I think most of the complaints about ARR and such are pretty on point but I also think there's a disconnect from people like coming from WoW and stuff where nothing pre max level matters at all so they see everything from 1-90 as filler rather than The Game.
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Dec 29, 2023 07:00
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Doom Rooster posted:People keep saying this, and I believe it, but holy poo poo is that damning with faint praise. Really slow ability gain, turning OFF many of your abilities in leveling dungeons, utterly faceroll difficulty of everything, so much backtracking, So. Many. Fetch. Quests. It’s just so, so bad still. it was so bad i almost quit on the quest chain leading up to titan lol. titan fight was so good that i was hooked though, but for my titan clear i got 3 other newbies in DF so we had to figure poo poo out ourselves so it was harder than the average group as for skills... yeah that's somehow worse than it used to be. game used to end at level 50 so you only got 3-4 more skills after 40, now level 40 isn't even halfway point, and as they trim skills, they often remove lower level ones lmao. gw2 figured this poo poo out over 10 years ago, just squish the stats but keep the skills when scaling down, it works out fine nobody's gonna kick you from sastasha if you do 20% less dps or whatever
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Dec 29, 2023 07:02
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There's definitely still a lot of room for trimming in every single FFXIV expansion, and I think it's going to be absolutely mandatory if they're going to stick to the "finish the whole rear end MSQ to unlock everything" shtick. I actually don't think there's anything really wrong with ARR on a fundamental level, it's structured in a decent way, does great worldbuilding and does a decent execution of your typical FF Evil Empire plot. But there's still a lot of quests that could be easily be condensed without really losing any of the things ARR wants to do while making the whole thing flow much better. It also doesn't really help that, from a raider's perspective, while the 50 and 60 content are fun to experience in a touristy kind of way, they're not all that fun to actually play unless you go whole hog with minimum ilvl doing extremes and savage, and even then most of it hasn't aged that great. You have to make it to 70 before the raiding content, in my opinion, gets good.
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Dec 29, 2023 10:22
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Doom Rooster posted:People keep saying this, and I believe it, but holy poo poo is that damning with faint praise. Really slow ability gain, turning OFF many of your abilities in leveling dungeons, utterly faceroll difficulty of everything, so much backtracking, So. Many. Fetch. Quests. It’s just so, so bad still. at least they made the capstone stuff around 50 much more interesting. even mr. ritalin is a legit trial now
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Dec 29, 2023 12:05
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Hra Mormo posted:There's definitely still a lot of room for trimming in every single FFXIV expansion, and I think it's going to be absolutely mandatory if they're going to stick to the "finish the whole rear end MSQ to unlock everything" shtick. The structuring is by far the worst thing about ARR, like I want to say the majority of the plotting in that game is someone giving you the runaround? Even if you reduced the number of steps in the quest to get some wine and cheese before you fight Titan, it's still just an incredibly annoying questline after a big lull in the story where you finally think you're going to get some drama. When I was going through with a couple of friends a few years ago I just had to keep saying 'I swear this gets less annoying when you get to the expansion'
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Dec 29, 2023 12:39
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Gone are the days of city of heroes or everquest 2 where you can down level your self to play with friends and maybe still have a story except maybe guild wars 2 or the wow free shard letting you group with friends at almost any level without removing your skills huh maybe it is just a few games that skipped that part of good design
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Dec 29, 2023 13:31
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No Dignity posted:The structuring is by far the worst thing about ARR, like I want to say the majority of the plotting in that game is someone giving you the runaround? Even if you reduced the number of steps in the quest to get some wine and cheese before you fight Titan, it's still just an incredibly annoying questline after a big lull in the story where you finally think you're going to get some drama. When I was going through with a couple of friends a few years ago I just had to keep saying 'I swear this gets less annoying when you get to the expansion' i never really was that annoyed by the whole titan deal because I kind of got what it was going for, ARR as a whole is largely focused on pulling the scale back and answering the question "what is this place I'm fighting for, and who are the people in it". the emotional core that ARR's plot keeps circling around to is that the little people and the world they rebuilt from the rubble matter and that when you do finally have your Big Hero Moments you're doing it for them. "Kill five fly swarms so a traumatized garlean deserter has marginally improved peace of mind" isn't the most riveting way to express this but that's kinda the point, the small and seemingly pointless things matter and its attempting to use the whole MMO framing to express this mechanically. Catgirl Al Capone fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Dec 29, 2023 |
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Dec 29, 2023 13:50
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Catgirl Al Capone posted:i never really was that annoyed by the whole titan deal because I kind of got what it was going for, ARR as a whole is largely focused on pulling the scale back and answering the question "what is this place I'm fighting for, and who are the people in it". the emotional core that ARR's plot keeps circling around to is that the little people and the world they rebuilt from the rubble matter and that when you do finally have your Big Hero Moments you're doing it for them. "Kill five fly swarms so a traumatized garlean deserter has marginally improved peace of mind" isn't the most riveting way to express this but that's kinda the point, the small and seemingly pointless things matter and its attempting to use the whole MMO framing to express this mechanically. Okay but it's insanely dumb to make some of those tangents part of the MSQ and especially in points where poo poo is going down and the situation is meant to be urgent. Getting the the whole 'this is terrible, Titan has be summoned, we need to head to La Noscea right now!!' and then getting three hours of mandatory sidequesting and going to a whole other dungeon and fighting a dragon for some cheese was straight up baffling when I first played the game, and did reek of 'we have this much plot but a budget of this many quests so we need a filler arc before we get back to the main story' Like the questline would have been great as an optional quest chain you could pick up as its own thing, but the way those beats are used in the plot really does them a disservice No Dignity fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Dec 29, 2023 |
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Dec 29, 2023 16:22
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The corrupted crystals poo poo for Garuda was way worse than the Titan stuff imo. I dunno why it gets less poo poo.
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Dec 29, 2023 16:30
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because it ends faster i guess
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Dec 29, 2023 16:37
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No Dignity posted:Okay but it's insanely dumb to make some of those tangents part of the MSQ and especially in points where poo poo is going down and the situation is meant to be urgent. Getting the the whole 'this is terrible, Titan has be summoned, we need to head to La Noscea right now!!' and then getting three hours of mandatory sidequesting and going to a whole other dungeon and fighting a dragon for some cheese was straight up baffling when I first played the game, and did reek of 'we have this much plot but a budget of this many quests so we need a filler arc before we get back to the main story' if they weren't part of the MSQ they wouldn't carry their intended meaning. the whole point of the "test" is managing the tension between urgency and compassion and being willing to help others with their smaller problems even when it seems like a distraction. (this is made much more explicit in the DRK questline but that line wouldn't be anywhere near as good without this foundation building it up)
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Dec 29, 2023 16:40
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Ibram Gaunt posted:The corrupted crystals poo poo for Garuda was way worse than the Titan stuff imo. I dunno why it gets less poo poo. Because Pharos Sirius is a neat dungeon and a hilariously dark punchline to some 1.0 plot. The rest of that runaround can f off.
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Dec 29, 2023 18:15
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