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I don't think the Joker backlash was because of memes. That's a factor, sure, but it's also just an extremely overrated and overhyped film, Joaquin aside. I didn't find it morally repugnant, which was a ridiculous criticism, but honestly it was a pretty dumb script. The whole "it was all in their head, let's flashback to all the prior scenes in the film and show what REALLY happened" thing has got to be the hackiest trope in the book and completely deflates the story.
Crescent Wrench has a new favorite as of 16:52 on Dec 29, 2023 |
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Dec 29, 2023 16:32
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Crescent Wrench posted:I don't think the Joker backlash was because of memes. That's a factor, sure, but it's also just an extremely overrated and overhyped film, Joaquin aside. I didn't find it morally repugnant, which was a ridiculous criticism, but honestly it was a pretty dumb script. The whole "it was all in their head, let's flashback to all the prior scenes in the film and show what REALLY happened" thing has got to be the hackiest trope in the book and completely deflates the story. The main problem I had with it was just that Scorsese already made King of Comedy and Taxi Driver and it felt like Todd Phillips just really liked those movies and wanted to do his own. And the only thing he added to it was the spoilered bit from your post and one page at the end that said "And also he's indirectly responsible for the existence of Batman"
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Dec 29, 2023 17:01
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Also true, the derivative nature is also a big detriment. I don't even mind riffing on other movies--having one of Scorsese's "lonely guy" protagonists turn into a literal supervillain isn't the worst take on a comic book movie--but Joker doesn't really add anything new that's not totally asinine.
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Dec 29, 2023 17:07
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Joker was stupid because of that plot line of being biologically related to the Wayne family as a unclaimed bastard except no except yeah except ??? It felt like they were throwing the scraps from the kitchen sink that weren't yet used by other 'origin of Joker' tellings.
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Dec 29, 2023 18:47
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isnt there also the context of the lifeboat effect? DC movies still kinda suck compared to Marvel movies so fans cling on to whatever not trash DC outputs and hangs on for dear life because its the one non trash thing they got.
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Dec 29, 2023 18:57
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I think the reason the joker movie sucked was they somehow took a comic book villain known for his style, insanity, and overall batshit craziness and made him boring.
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Dec 29, 2023 21:58
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Joker as a sad sack is definitely a new direction. Not saying it was good…
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Dec 29, 2023 22:01
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Meanwhile, at the same time, the Harley Quinn cartoon is actually doing really interesting things with Joker's character.
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Dec 29, 2023 22:44
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The only time Joker has ever shown legit physical interest in Harley is the TMNT crossover where they were turned into furries
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Dec 29, 2023 22:58
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Yeah, arguments about Prometheus, like those about zombies, pretty much stopped a few months into COVID. That kind of holds up ... until you point out that these are supposed to be the best and brightest. Not as terrible as the idiotic sequel where we get more 'super smarts' landing on an alien planet and going helmetless, hugging a clearly infected guy, trusting a clearly evil android, or putting an entire colony ship in danger because 'my wife'
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Dec 29, 2023 23:03
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Meanwhile, at the same time, the Harley Quinn cartoon is actually doing really interesting things with Joker's character. Is that the one where he's voiced by Alan Tudyk and reading Infinite Jest?
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Dec 29, 2023 23:21
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Yeah, he's actually attempting somewhat of a real life and trying to rehabilitate in a way that only Joker understands. It's pretty interesting and not something I've seen before. Then again, this is also the same show that really shows just how hosed up Batman is and actually puts him into therapy.
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Dec 29, 2023 23:23
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DarkDobe posted:That kind of holds up ... until you point out that these are supposed to be the best and brightest. Nah, after Covid, those people are 100% believable. We're just a bunch of emotional animals that are driven more by feelings than cold, emotionless beep-boop logic. Actually, that's been a recurring theme since Alien, hasn't it?
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Dec 29, 2023 23:23
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Yeah, arguments about Prometheus, like those about zombies, pretty much stopped a few months into COVID. Now we complain that people in disaster movies aren't stupid enough.
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Dec 29, 2023 23:29
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Baron von Eevl posted:I always hate when people complain that a character did something stupid in a movie. Lots of people do stupid things every day of their lives. People doing stupid things in movies still need believable motivations for doing the stupid things. Like, here's the thing with all the lol covid zombie dur dur jokes - all of those people who think covid is fake and vaccines are poison mind control shots are stupid but they believe that poo poo because there has been an intense, decades long propaganda campaign by right wing politicians and media grifters to promote conspiracies and sow distrust in scientific knowledge and professional authority so that they can grow their personal power. A lot of people are willing to believe them because it coincides with their worldview and gives them a justification for not doing things they didn't want to do anyway. You can follow a series of cause and effect to see how these dumb people arrived at their dumb beliefs. It is very very dumb but there is a motivation and a reason that millions of people believe in covid denialism and antivax bullshit. The characters in Prometheus on the other hand just do poo poo completely at random, for no reason at all except to move the plot forward. Its plain lovely writing. Compare them to, say, Gorman in Aliens. He's an idiot and makes stupid decisions and those stupid decisions move the plot forward BUT you know why he's stupid. The movie makes sure to tell you he has no real world experience yet he's clearly arrogant and exudes a sense of unearned confidence in his abilities that the other marines can smell a mile away. There's an implication based on his discomfort around the grunts that he is likely in his position because of connections and he didn't rise through the ranks. His stupidity has him falling back on textbooks and classes from officers training instead of improvising or letting Apone take over when poo poo hits the fan. The audience connects to this because it feels like a real, believable kind of stupidity. This is the way every lovely fail son boss we've ever had acts. There might be completely pants-on-head rando stupid people that exist out there but it doesn't feel like they would end up being able to complete PhD programs and get highly competitive slots on the first interstellar voyage in the history of humankind so that they could then try to pet alien vagina snakes. Its not about beep boop tactical realism, its that those characters feel like completely inhuman plot pieces. Prometheus is also bad for the other reasons you mentioned as well. After it came out, people thought there must have been significant studio meddling that chopped it to pieces because of how disjointed it feels. Then Scott publicly announced there is no director's cut, the theatrical version is exactly how he intended it. And then he made Alien Covenant to prove it.
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Dec 30, 2023 03:27
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Baron von Eevl posted:I always hate when people complain that a character did something stupid in a movie. Lots of people do stupid things every day of their lives. I didn't like it because it was boring
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Dec 30, 2023 05:05
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for a movie with alien heads being exploded FOR SCIENCE and alien wiener-cobras and loving alien zombie crab-walking for miles to the base ship and the fact we humans should look like hairless water-balloon albinos, and can't forget the android that hates humans, it really is a boring rear end movie. oh and so many people appear and disappear for no reason. all the people attending Weyland. the dudes with the guns for the first trek out. i remember seeing Prometheus in theaters, which was huge for me because I went maybe once every few years even before Covid. And trying to justify how good it was because that ticket was expensive for a new movie.
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Dec 30, 2023 05:25
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800peepee51doodoo posted:People doing stupid things in movies still need believable motivations for doing the stupid things. Like, here's the thing with all the lol covid zombie dur dur jokes - all of those people who think covid is fake and vaccines are poison mind control shots are stupid but they believe that poo poo because there has been an intense, decades long propaganda campaign by right wing politicians and media grifters to promote conspiracies and sow distrust in scientific knowledge and professional authority so that they can grow their personal power. A lot of people are willing to believe them because it coincides with their worldview and gives them a justification for not doing things they didn't want to do anyway. You can follow a series of cause and effect to see how these dumb people arrived at their dumb beliefs. It is very very dumb but there is a motivation and a reason that millions of people believe in covid denialism and antivax bullshit. The cdc, which is full of phds, announced you shouldn’t have Christmas gatherings on Friday night before the holiday. Prometheus haters are so weird. I enjoyed the movie quite a bit and see flaws in it but they hit you with these essays on why it’s so bad and I just don’t get it. Aliens was great! No one disagrees! I have no idea why those first movies being so good means they have to drive an icebreaker ship through Prometheus. It’s very strange.
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Dec 30, 2023 06:26
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Enderzero posted:The cdc, which is full of phds, announced you shouldn’t have Christmas gatherings on Friday night before the holiday. when I don't like something sometimes I talk about every little reason and other times I just say not for me. Humans do that all the time
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Dec 30, 2023 07:20
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Nobody was a fun and entertaining watch but the third act has a bunch of tonal whiplash. After the way all the other action scenes played out you have the heroes just stand out in the open and mow down conga lines of bad guys (where did they even come from, the big bad already sent "everyone" to the last action setpiece and lost them there) dumber than Payday cops. And then of course you have That Moment. It's only the big bad left and suddenly they can't hit poo poo anymore. Suddenly they have to take cover. Suddenly all their guns are out of ammo. Suddenly they're not having fun. Suddenly I'm expected to take this seriously again. Suddenly the only option left for our main character (after all the prep work he has done) is to do something that looks like a heroic sacrifice (even though he's fine afterwards). Come the gently caress on. You're this close to having a great
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Dec 30, 2023 08:37
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I just watched The Ladies Man, that old 2000 SNL sketch turned into a 90 minute celluloid hellhole. What's interesting to me about it is that it's such an unforgettable, useless movie that I forgot I ever watched it. But when I went to log it on letterboxd, because I'm one of those kinds of people, I see I've seen it, I finally watched it four years ago, and basically experienced the same thing, that "after years of waiting I finally watched this and it's a sketch transformed into a 90 minute movie and completely forgettable" I dunno, I don't have a better thread to post this revelation in.
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Dec 30, 2023 08:40
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800peepee51doodoo posted:People doing stupid things in movies still need believable motivations for doing the stupid things. Like, here's the thing with all the lol covid zombie dur dur jokes - all of those people who think covid is fake and vaccines are poison mind control shots are stupid but they believe that poo poo because there has been an intense, decades long propaganda campaign by right wing politicians and media grifters to promote conspiracies and sow distrust in scientific knowledge and professional authority so that they can grow their personal power. A lot of people are willing to believe them because it coincides with their worldview and gives them a justification for not doing things they didn't want to do anyway. You can follow a series of cause and effect to see how these dumb people arrived at their dumb beliefs. It is very very dumb but there is a motivation and a reason that millions of people believe in covid denialism and antivax bullshit. This is an insightful post and it belongs in an academic journal. You are a scholar, forums user 800peepee51doodoo
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Dec 30, 2023 08:44
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Enderzero posted:The cdc, which is full of phds, announced you shouldn’t have Christmas gatherings on Friday night before the holiday.
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Dec 30, 2023 10:25
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Enderzero posted:The cdc, which is full of phds, announced you shouldn’t have Christmas gatherings on Friday night before the holiday. I'm happy for you, that your brain works that way. Must be nice.
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Dec 30, 2023 10:44
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I kind of think Prometheus was dumb for the same reasons, then I realise there are probably highly intelligent and qualified people working for Musk who think he's smart. They'd probably get on his quest-for-immortality spaceship in a heartbeat.
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Dec 30, 2023 10:46
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Biplane posted:I'm happy for you, that your brain works that way. Must be nice.
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Dec 30, 2023 11:03
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BiggestOrangeTree posted:Nobody was a fun and entertaining watch but the third act has a bunch of tonal whiplash. After the way all the other action scenes played out you have the heroes just stand out in the open and mow down conga lines of bad guys (where did they even come from, the big bad already sent "everyone" to the last action setpiece and lost them there) dumber than Payday cops. And then of course you have That Moment. It's only the big bad left and suddenly they can't hit poo poo anymore. Suddenly they have to take cover. Suddenly all their guns are out of ammo. Suddenly they're not having fun. Suddenly I'm expected to take this seriously again. Suddenly the only option left for our main character (after all the prep work he has done) is to do something that looks like a heroic sacrifice (even though he's fine afterwards). Honestly, for me Nobody already fell on its face at the outset with establishing his motivation. One of the great strengths of the first John Wick (which Nobody is pretty clearly aping) is that it's got an extremely effective motivation for the protagonist: They killed his loving puppy. That's unironically one of the most affecting motivations I've seen in a movie in a while, and justifies pretty much any amount of murder as a response. Nobody, on the other hand? The whole motivation boils down to "Some guy called him a pussy, and whoops here are some convenient unrelated mobsters he can kill until he feels like a manly man again". The result just felt very limp, despite the generally competent action.
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Dec 30, 2023 11:35
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Yeah, he's actually attempting somewhat of a real life and trying to rehabilitate in a way that only Joker understands. He's actually not doing that anymore. He's back to being the villainous Joker now.
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Dec 30, 2023 13:37
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DarkDobe posted:That kind of holds up ... until you point out that these are supposed to be the best and brightest. They're not, and that's the point. Shaw and Holloway are being lumped in with von Daniken and other "Ancient Astronauts" theorists; Fifield is mentally unstable; Vickers is a corporate backstabber liked by nobody. Weyland selected people who were competent enough in their field to accomplish what he needed them to do, but were ultimately expendable.
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Dec 30, 2023 14:12
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Jedit posted:They're not, and that's the point. Shaw and Holloway are being lumped in with von Daniken and other "Ancient Astronauts" theorists; Fifield is mentally unstable; Vickers is a corporate backstabber liked by nobody. Weyland selected people who were competent enough in their field to accomplish what he needed them to do, but were ultimately expendable. Fifield wasn't unstable, he was pretty chill until he got grouped with the weirdo scientist who wanted to touch alien penis-vagina-cobra. I mean unless you mean unstable because they got loving lost in a structure he had literally mapped out a few scenes ago. Vickers wasn't a backstabber, she tried to get people to do their drat jobs, but that said the loving captain walked away from the two lost dudes to get laid, so I don't know how competent anyone was. The characters are so bland and while they're a step vaguely above covenant, where everyone is pretty much Male Victim or Female Victim, I enjoyed Covenant more because everyone was so over the top loving stupid, it was like watching incels on a dating game. Also I just hate both movies in general for making David the creator's Super Cool Mary Sue OC Do Not Steal for making the xenos in the first place. Remove the mystery! Make them loving like linebred dogs for all the fun that is. There's a far better comic where it shows the xenos loving evolved naturally and have another species that preys/fucks with them so they are not at the top of the food chain. That would be a far better movie. Prometheus crew goes in search of Who Made Us based on some super obscure cave paintings that could mean anything from "this is where we come from" to "never ever go here" to "this is where we keep our snacks." And instead find a super fun xeno homeworld where the message was really "this place is cool for tourism but pay your agent for a good trip." edit: i remember a friend who insists Prometheus is a good movie because it doesn't spoon-feed you things and makes you figure things out. Like, why do the Engineers hate us? what happened about 2000 years ago? THAT'S RIGHT, JESUS. JESUS WAS AN ENGINEER AND WE KILLED HIM. so they're mad and came to wipe out humanity but lost control of their black goo. Which has no loving indication in the movie other than Shaw whining about faith here and there. Cowslips Warren has a new favorite as of 14:28 on Dec 30, 2023 |
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Dec 30, 2023 14:25
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Yeah, he's actually attempting somewhat of a real life and trying to rehabilitate in a way that only Joker understands. It's pretty interesting and not something I've seen before. Then again, this is also the same show that really shows just how hosed up Batman is and actually puts him into therapy. The Harley show is the most interesting take on the Bat family and their villains ever. Yes, even more than the Diniverse shows.
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Dec 30, 2023 14:33
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Cowslips Warren posted:
I'm convinced Ridley Scott was mad that James Cameron had the gall to make a sequel that zagged from his creation & was successful at it too, so his Alien prequels are him trying to wrest control of the public narrative regarding the franchise. I wonder how Ridley feels about Denis Villeneuve's Blade Runner 2049.
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Dec 30, 2023 14:41
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about Prometheus
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Perestroika posted:
I get the feeling they leaned too hard into "he's not instigating anything, stuff just happens to him" to the point that some of the dialogue makes no sense. Characters chastise him for messing with the mob when the only point of contact was a chance encounter, and then again when he's the target of an attack. I wonder if there were rewrites to make him be less at fault for poo poo and they forgot those lines. And yeah it was hard to miss the gross violence = manly = attractive theme.
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Dec 30, 2023 14:48
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Perestroika posted:Honestly, for me Nobody already fell on its face at the outset with establishing his motivation. One of the great strengths of the first John Wick (which Nobody is pretty clearly aping) is that it's got an extremely effective motivation for the protagonist: They killed his loving puppy. That's unironically one of the most affecting motivations I've seen in a movie in a while, and justifies pretty much any amount of murder as a response. No, the insult wasn't the motivation for mass murder. The insult was the motivation to beat up some drunk assholes on the bus. And the assholes were threatening a young woman at the time, so a lot of guys would say defending her is the right move if you are capable of it. Unfortunately he's both out of practice and an assassin not a bouncer, so he ends up hurting one more than intended. Even then he tried to fix it with an amateur tracheotomy. And that's it. Catharsis. That's the end of that motivation for him. Then killers invade his home and try to murder his family. The life he has chosen is over. That is his motivation for the rest of the movie. IIMM: Baddies shipping giant stacks of cash around the world was dumb as hell. How would that even get started? All the guys involved seems nervous and unhappy about it. Putting all your eggs in one basket is famously dumb, dozens of guys putting all their eggs in the same basket is asinine. It's almost inevitable that something will go wrong eventually. IIMM2: Burning the cash was silly though. It did successfully make the boss mad so he would rush in recklessly, which I assume was the point. But it also means all the rest of the guys involved in the scheme now have motive to retaliate against him. Dozens more international crime organizations. This seemed less like a cunning strategy, and more like setting up easy sequels.
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Dec 30, 2023 14:49
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Megillah Gorilla posted:The Harley show is the most interesting take on the Bat family and their villains ever. The Telltale Batman games apparently have a cool take on the Joker, but I haven't played them myself.
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Dec 30, 2023 15:36
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Nobody is a dad-sploitation flick and so operates on nonsense power-Dad symbolic logic.
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Dec 30, 2023 15:37
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DarkDobe posted:That kind of holds up ... until you point out that these are supposed to be the best and brightest. the whole expedition is being funded by Guy Pearce's egomaniacl idiot billionaire. they purpprt to be the best and brightest but it comes off as Elon Musk funding a space venture with his handpicked crew of idiots and reaping what he sows.
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Dec 30, 2023 15:41
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I actually really liked the burning stuff in Nobody. Mainly because the lead actor just sells that "yup, burned it. Why not?" perfectly. He just has this perfect look of "I mean, it WAS flammable. What else was I supposed to do?". The movie isn't fantastic but as a mixture of taken and John wick, it's at least fun to watch.
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Dec 30, 2023 15:56
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Sally posted:the whole expedition is being funded by Guy Pearce's egomaniacl idiot billionaire. they purpprt to be the best and brightest but it comes off as Elon Musk funding a space venture with his handpicked crew of idiots and reaping what he sows. I think that the Netflix show love, death, and robots had a perfect ending for Elon musk. Even if it was just kind of alluded to.
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Dec 30, 2023 17:36
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Cowslips Warren posted:I think that the Netflix show love, death, and robots had a perfect ending for Elon musk. Even if it was just kind of alluded to. lol what was it? i havent seen the show.
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Dec 30, 2023 17:40
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