Tiny Rogues: tiny action roguelike, huge fun

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Tiny Rogues: tiny action roguelike, huge fun

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

Teriyaki Koinku posted:

It just occurred to me that the locked Abyss portion will likely be the Chaos alignment route whenever it releases. It also makes sense that Hell/Heaven doors are positioned left to right while Shadow Realm/Abyss are positioned up and down.

The Abyssal Charm also gives +1 Chaos when you take it.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 05:43

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 06:10

Im_Special: Jan 2, 2011; Look At This!!! WOW!
It's F*cking Nothing.

alignment.txt

quote:

If you need/want to go shadow planes: Become pure lawful.
(+4 integrity) (Can be achieved by buying Dice in tavern from the Farmer and using Law Shops.)

If you need/want to go to hell: Become pure evil.
(-4 morality) (Can be achieved by buying Illegal Gun Parts, spending or gaining gold in the Black Market and Evil Shops.)

If you need/want to go to heaven: Become pure good.
(+4 morality) (Can be achieved by buying Green Blessing from Dryad or Purging Stones from Cleric in tavern, and from Good Shops.)

(NO USE YET): You can get +1 Chaotic from buying a Storm in a Bottle from the Creepy Wizard in the tavern.

You can use the most top node on the meta perk tree called "Throne Quest" to reduce the requirement to go to floor 12 by 1, so e.g.:
instead of needing "Pure Evil" you can now pass with "Evil" (-3, instead of -4)

In general you only need to worry about 1 alignment, depending where you wanna go.

Also something slightly confusing might be that there are 2-axis to your alignment,
you can be "lawful good" or "lawful evil". The system is like the D&D alignment system: https://i.imgur.com/LZSWWZb.png

Side effects of alignment:

Mead from the Viking in the tavern become cheaper when you are evil and more expensive if you are good.
Illegal Gun Parts from the Gun Dealer in the tavern become cheaper when you are evil and more expensive if you are good.
Green Blossom from the Dryad in tavern become cheaper if you are good and more expensive if you are evil.
Purging Stones from the Cleric in tavern become cheaper if you are good and more expensive if you are evil.
Repair Powder from the Dwarf Warrior in tavern becomes cheaper if you are good and more expensive if you are evil.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 05:46

Captain Flame Guy: Mar 11, 2012

Huh, that would explain the seemingly random pricing changes at the tavern.

I've been recording a couple of runs whilst unlocking new classes and it feels like they just get increasingly unhinged as I go along.
Did three runs today, one where I wanted to try out the esper class, which went completely off the hook the moment I picked up the Balrog Wand combined with the trait that makes burn even better.

For the second run I wanted to unlock the Barbarian class which involves going to hell as the Warrior, except I completely forgot about actually going there and I went with the abyss route instead. I feel like I got completely abysmal traits in this run but it ended up being saved by the weapon drops:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8KPzROkbFI

And in the third proper run I actually remembered to go to hell and went in really hard on bleed with a weapon that doesn't otherwise seem that great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JnQ9RVqvmY

In that last run I also saw opportunities to get up to maybe 5 flasks which would've let me get even more soul hearts than I've already been getting.
Today's runs do showcase amusing ways things can go off the rails if you just stick with it.

Honestly right now I feel like the Soul Scarf is way too strong when it comes to survivability, especially with how easy it is to refill your flasks now. Perhaps it's time to lay off the Soul Scarf for more interesting runs.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 07:01

deep dish peat moss: Jul 27, 2006

Something I just realized: If you have a companion with Companion Weight lower than your maximum companions you can use the item multiple times to summon multiple of the same companion :doh:

This makes every source of +companions insanely good, lmao

# ? Dec 30, 2023 10:09

Shaman Tank Spec: Dec 26, 2003; *blep*

deep dish peat moss posted:

Something I just realized: If you have a companion with Companion Weight lower than your maximum companions you can use the item multiple times to summon multiple of the same companion

This makes every source of +companions insanely good, lmao

OH poo poo :tviv:

# ? Dec 30, 2023 13:43

Jusupov: May 24, 2007; only text

deep dish peat moss posted:

Something I just realized: If you have a companion with Companion Weight lower than your maximum companions you can use the item multiple times to summon multiple of the same companion

This makes every source of +companions insanely good, lmao

Easy to get the achievement for 10 companions with +2 companion from the trait and the starter skeletons from necromancer

# ? Dec 30, 2023 14:16

Ciaphas: Nov 20, 2005; > BEWARE, COWARD

deep dish peat moss posted:

Something I just realized: If you have a companion with Companion Weight lower than your maximum companions you can use the item multiple times to summon multiple of the same companion

This makes every source of +companions insanely good, lmao

# ? Dec 30, 2023 14:23

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

Jusupov posted:

Easy to get the achievement for 10 companions with +2 companion from the trait and the starter skeletons from necromancer

Ninja doesn't even need that, just get one of the traits that triggers your dash effects every X attacks and go to town.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 14:25

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

deep dish peat moss posted:

Something I just realized: If you have a companion with Companion Weight lower than your maximum companions you can use the item multiple times to summon multiple of the same companion

This makes every source of +companions insanely good, lmao

Unless you get the trait that multiplies up the stats gained when you have fewer companions. That does some insane things with the right companion.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 14:25

Azran: Sep 3, 2012; And what should one do to be remembered?

Primal Death sure is something lol

# ? Dec 30, 2023 14:50

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

deep dish peat moss posted:

Something I just realized: If you have a companion with Companion Weight lower than your maximum companions you can use the item multiple times to summon multiple of the same companion

This makes every source of +companions insanely good, lmao

I figured this out on my own recently as well too. Blew my mind because for so many runs prior to that I'd get +1 companions and spend the rest of the run trying to find a second companion drop so I could summon an extra one.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 17:30

Broken Cog: Dec 29, 2009; We're all friends here

To add to this, some companions have lower weight than others, for no particular reason. Like this:

has 0.5 weighting, which means you can summon 2 of them for each companion slot you have.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 18:07

Schurik: Sep 13, 2008

Guaranteed crushing hit perk, 80% more CH damage on items in total, glass cannon and golem armor that made me super slow, and a blue staff with an insane top end made me into an immobile laser turret and 3 shot death on 6 cinder. Build came together more perfectly than I could have planned, love the game for these situations

# ? Dec 30, 2023 18:26

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

Broken Cog posted:

To add to this, some companions have lower weight than others, for no particular reason. Like this:
has 0.5 weighting, which means you can summon 2 of them for each companion slot you have.

Yep, the way I figured it out was accidentally double-clicking on the Fetish Doll companion item and summoning two of them. Prior to that I'd figured that the 0.25 companion weight meant you could summon one, and still have a slot for another companion entirely :rolleye:

# ? Dec 30, 2023 18:29

Turin Turambar: Jun 5, 2011

Broken Cog posted:

To add to this, some companions have lower weight than others, for no particular reason. Like this:

has 0.5 weighting, which means you can summon 2 of them for each companion slot you have.

Well, it isn't 'for no reason', they usually are weaker companions, in exchange of having less 'weight'.

Note I said 'usually', that one seems pretty good and 0.5 weight seems hard to justify :P.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 18:34

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Turin Turambar posted:

Well, it isn't 'for no reason', they usually are weaker companions, in exchange of having less 'weight'.

Note I said 'usually', that one seems pretty good and 0.5 weight seems hard to justify :P.

That one definitely has the companion trait applied to it, I think it's 15% normally.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 18:52

Broken Cog: Dec 29, 2009; We're all friends here

I like that the Burning Hells boss has a couple of phases that are lifted straight out of PoE.

I only saw the "Maze" phase (from Sirus) for the first time earlier, since I got there with a real crappy loadout, and had to spend several minutes fighting him.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 18:56

Azran: Sep 3, 2012; And what should one do to be remembered?

Yeah a few enemy gimmicks are very amusing - seeing a boss battle become a Super Hexagon level was very cool. Also stuff like the iron maiden being exactly the same as the one from enter the gungeon

# ? Dec 30, 2023 19:04

Jusupov: May 24, 2007; only text

Soul scarf getting a nerf in the next patch

# ? Dec 30, 2023 19:44

Turin Turambar: Jun 5, 2011

Jusupov posted:

Soul scarf getting a nerf in the next patch

Expected. I even deliberately avoided using it in my last three runs, because well, I could well use a trainer, because it felt like the same as a cheat. Clearly unintended interaction with the new 0.21 stuff.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 19:50

Broken Cog: Dec 29, 2009; We're all friends here

I wish starting item would be saved based on class. I like the mana potion for the intelligence classes, but I don't particularly care about using it for, say, warrior or soldier.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 20:41

Shaman Tank Spec: Dec 26, 2003; *blep*

I somehow managed to cobble together a Bard build where my pan flute was critting things for 22k, and just completely steamrolled over EVERYTHING. During the run I rolled my world tier over to the next one, and opened the post-Death game, which also fell to my mighty fluting in moments. I think finding a companion that gave me +20% music damage and a helmet that gave me +30 int were the keys there, as well as a perk that gave me +100% mana bonuses.

The class is fun, and I really love the faint janky music sounds your instruments make.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 21:31

Broken Cog: Dec 29, 2009; We're all friends here

Pirate is weird. You'll hit Pirate King rank by like floor 5 or 6 without really trying for it, so you'll just get a bunch of pretty solid stats for free without dedicating much to it.

# ? Dec 30, 2023 23:15

RoboCicero: Oct 22, 2009; "I'm sick and tired of reading these posts!"

Is there a way to detect secret rooms without taking the perk? I'm too scatterbrained to remember unique decals or anything.

Also, I'm glad to see while everyone is going all in on soul scarf the Broken Hero Sword is still as broken as ever :madmax:

even better now that there's all this metaprog support

V Thank you! :tipshat:

RoboCicero fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Dec 31, 2023

# ? Dec 31, 2023 06:31

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

RoboCicero posted:

Is there a way to detect secret rooms without taking the perk? I'm too scatterbrained to remember unique decals or anything.

X marks the spot

# ? Dec 31, 2023 06:49

Captain Flame Guy: Mar 11, 2012

How do orbital type weapons and effects work with attack sped and orbital speed? Is it set up in a way so that something can hit exactly once per orbit?
To me it seems that if you want to invest in orbitals, you really want to go all in on whatever it takes to make them go faster.

Just did a cleric run to unlock monk and I decided to go with the bible that gets stronger with curse, I have no idea what happened to the math but I was regularly seeing 42k crits at a really rapid pace, it did much better than I ever imagined.

# ? Dec 31, 2023 16:22

Your Computer: Oct 3, 2008; Grimey Drawer

the holy poopacy posted:

1) No

the runs are just long enough that i wish i could save during the middle..... ah well :negative:

on an unrelated note i thought "bet this would be great to play in bed on my steam deck" but then i realized i have no idea how anyone manages to play this with a controller. long range weapons like bows are fine with the auto-aim but everything else i struggle with using

# ? Dec 31, 2023 16:32

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

Your Computer posted:

on an unrelated note i thought "bet this would be great to play in bed on my steam deck" but then i realized i have no idea how anyone manages to play this with a controller. long range weapons like bows are fine with the auto-aim but everything else i struggle with using

You should be able to crank up (or down) the autoaim in the settings, that should help a little.

# ? Dec 31, 2023 16:40

Your Computer: Oct 3, 2008; Grimey Drawer

so many systems have changed since i played this last time......... how does intelligence, mana drain and mana crystals work now?

SKULL.GIF posted:

You should be able to crank up (or down) the autoaim in the settings, that should help a little.

it works fine for projectile weapons but especially the melee weapons that go in an elliptical path just feel impossible to use...

# ? Dec 31, 2023 17:50

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

Your Computer posted:

so many systems have changed since i played this last time......... how does intelligence, mana drain and mana crystals work now?

I would super appreciate someone double-checking my math, but as I understand it:

- Every full mana star you have gives you +20% damage with weapons that drain mana. So as you use up stars, you get less damage. Weapons draining mana is a good thing because it means they get access to this bonus.
- After your stars are emptied, you go into a negative-star mode, where they can be drained again. I think this doesn't penalize damage, but once all of your stars are completely empty, you suffer attack rate penalties. And it takes longer for stars to refill if they've been drained twice, of course.
- Picking up a mana crystal gives you a buff that boosts your attack rate and makes stars drain more slowly.

Intelligence gives you extra crit chance and affects weapons that scale off of INT. It does nothing else (in particular, it does not give extra mana stars).

# ? Dec 31, 2023 18:01

Kuros: Sep 13, 2010; Oh look, the consequences of my prior actions are finally catching up to me.

Your Computer posted:

so many systems have changed since i played this last time......... how does intelligence, mana drain and mana crystals work now?

it works fine for projectile weapons but especially the melee weapons that go in an elliptical path just feel impossible to use...

I've been playing with 0 auto aim on a controller, so far the hardest weapons to use are the ones that put a crosshair on the screen, but I've been getting used to it.

# ? Dec 31, 2023 18:17

Captain Flame Guy: Mar 11, 2012

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I would super appreciate someone double-checking my math

The dev posted about the mechanics on r/tinyrogues in response to basically the same question:

quote:

Mana in the 0.2.1 iteration is basically like a "power bar", each point by default grants 20% more damage (multiplier overall but additive with itself, so 2 stars equal to 40% more damage).
Traits and equipment can add different effects though, e.g.: Spellblade adds 10% attack speed per mana star.
Now your total bonus decreases the more mana you drain, so if you have 3 stars and drain down to 1 star you only receive a 20% more damage bonus.

If you drain below 0% mana you enter mana burnout, which is a very small cooldown before you can drain mana again.
Mana Burnout is bad if you have effects that want you to drain mana, e.g.: Discharge trait (spawns sparks for every mana drained).
By default draining mana also spawns the mana star pickups, which then replenishes mana again and grants a massive attack speed and mana refund buff.

So if you want to drain mana for certain effects or just for spawning mana pickups, you want to make sure you are not in mana burnout.

It can certainly be helpful to let mana regenerate in some cases, e.g.: when the boss is in a position you can't hit them anyways or while they are immune, ...
Generally mana recovers very quickly.

The reason the game has a "mana refund" stat and not a "mana cost reduction" stat like other games is because in the game draining mana is actually something good because as previously mentioned it spawns mana stars and it can trigger effects like Discharge, Manaforged Bolts, ...
For that same reason the "Arcane Familiar" trait is also useful, because it reduces the mana drain threshold. So if you want to spawn a lot of mana stars (e.g.: for triggering an "on pick up mana star effect" like Annihilation) reducing the drain threshold is very good. Obviously also combos with the other effects I mentioned.

To be completely honest, I am still playing around with mana. I am having a lot of fun and gaining a lot of knowledge in terms of game design on mana mechanics, which is very nice. I do like the new iteration a lot more and it's honestly less confusing than the old iteration too, but I am still not 100% happy with it. Maybe in the future mana will be an actual resource to cast powerful abilities? Maybe it will just stay the same. I am not sure yet!

TLDR:
Each point of mana grants 20% DMG, draining it reduces the total DMG bonus.

# ? Dec 31, 2023 18:19

Broken Cog: Dec 29, 2009; We're all friends here

RIP win-streak. 16-cinder is pretty rough.

# ? Dec 31, 2023 19:21

Jusupov: May 24, 2007; only text

Kratos is op

# ? Dec 31, 2023 19:34

FZeroRacer: Apr 8, 2009

im not a fan of the current iteration of mana, since it doesn't make much intuitive sense and it feels more like it's there to punish magic rather than be a powerful or meaningful resource. i was doing sorcerer runs and they felt like one of the weakest starters in the game, and most of the mana perks felt fairly bad.

# ? Dec 31, 2023 19:47

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

Mana may be unintuitive but it's purely a positive, to the point that effects that add mana drain to mundane weapons are considered pretty powerful buffs. It's true that the blue trait pool is a bit lighter on pure DPS buffs than the other attributes, but also mana users can ramp up their damage very efficiently just by grabbing extra mana containers.

# ? Dec 31, 2023 20:13

Broken Cog: Dec 29, 2009; We're all friends here

Jusupov posted:

Kratos is op

You weren't kidding lol. I was critting for 200k+

Edit: Are Paragon levels for anything?

# ? Dec 31, 2023 20:26

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

FZeroRacer posted:

im not a fan of the current iteration of mana, since it doesn't make much intuitive sense and it feels more like it's there to punish magic rather than be a powerful or meaningful resource. i was doing sorcerer runs and they felt like one of the weakest starters in the game, and most of the mana perks felt fairly bad.

I think that's more Sorcerer having a bad starting weapon and mediocre trait, since Pyromancer is among the strongest starts in the entire game.

As for mana recharge, just have a decent weapon on swap and press right click whenever your blue bar goes to 0. Right click again after 1-2 seconds.

# ? Dec 31, 2023 20:47

Turin Turambar: Jun 5, 2011

Broken Cog posted:

You weren't kidding lol. I was critting for 200k+

Edit: Are Paragon levels for anything?

Do you people really like to play like that?
With the CRT line effect, I mean.

# ? Dec 31, 2023 21:08

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 06:10

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

Turin Turambar posted:

Do you people really like to play like that?
With the CRT line effect, I mean.

I turned that poo poo off ASAP. The scanlines are OK, but the distortion? no way.

# ? Dec 31, 2023 21:11

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