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So, looking at this series of events from the perspective of establishing the characterization of our main character, we start off with Kerrigan telling Jim that she doesn't care about him and that she wants revenge on Mengsk. We see her teach Valerian Mengsk and his science team a lesson about controlling Zerg (one which they seemingly needed) but does so with brutality and fear as her preferred methods. She never injures a single human, but there is a very real question lingering in the air as to whether or not she would have. She's cold, heartless, seemingly consumed by wrath and a desire for revenge. Then in the second mission, when she actually gets to spend some time with Raynor, that persona drops away a bit. We see her express a little humanity: she cracks a joke, she uses a gun, she admits (at least by implication) that she's afraid of the part of her that's still Zerg, she expresses that Jim matters to her in a way that she was denying to his face in the previous cutscene. She event trusts Valerian to get Jim off the planet instead of going back for him personally. Now we have this series of events. Kerrigan literally trying to choke the poo poo out of Valerian for failing to save Jim like he promised IS a bad look. I do think its worth remembering that we really don't have any particular reason to like Valerian or give him any benefit of the doubt for not having an alternate agenda at this point in the story. He got very little characterization in WoL or these first two missions other than the very distinct impression that he was manipulating us to get what he wanted. That said, her being THAT oblivious to anything but the thought to hurt the guy, to the point that she's not even making an effort toward self-preservation in the face of an attack that will kill her, makes her look stupid and irrational, and completely ungrateful at least to Matt and Raynor's Raiders, whom she knows Jim cares for. That's a really bad look for a character who's defining features as a human were compassion and loyalty and as a zerg was Machiavellian genius. BUT! The scene on the dropship and the final lines of the mission before it DO recontextualize those stupid actions to some degree. We're seeing a legitimate dichotomy to her character, and more importantly we're seeing that she doesn't actually like the fact that this dichotomy exists. There is a clear, comprehensible moral descent on display from "Use fear and shows of violence but don't hurt anyone," to "Hurt someone because they wronged me but managed to hold myself back," to "Kill people (using the Zerg I fear connecting with) to save someone I love," to "Ruthlessly slaughter my enemies without even thinking about it," and Kerrigan recognizes that and it makes her so disgusted with herself and afraid of herself that she starts calling out in the darkness of space, hoping that the one thing that anchors her to any hope that she's a good person will show up and help her through this. Despite what she told Jim, she doesn't want to be a destroyer, like she was in that dream, even if it gets her what she wants. He, and by extension her capacity for good, matters to her. We also have this really interesting element of the Zergling in the scene. Kerrigan associates the swarm with that violence, that part of herself she fears. Regardless of its meaning in a meta-narrative sense, she's clearly taken comfort within the story's universe from this notion that the Queen of Blades was some other, separate persona, and she wasn't responsible for what "that person," did. She worries that being in mental contact with the Zerg is why she slipped so easily into being that person, which is why she was nervous enough about reaching out to them in the lab that she was willing to say it to Jim out loud, and why she ran away from them after she caught herself giving that order to kill all the Terrans and heard the Swarm Queen rejoice in response. When Kerrigan gets the news about Raynor being 'dead' she looks at the Zergling as if she's choosing to embrace her dark side to get revenge. But the way the Zergling's presence is framed is clearly to convey compassion and comfort, as one might receive from from a pet. It's effectively trying to give her what she wanted from Raynor, a connection to the parts of her that are good, in its own instinctive, animal sort of way. This retrospectively helps us recognize that the Zerg down on the planet were more or less doing the same thing. Yeah, its not great that the Swarm Queen was fist-pumping at the order to kill the humans to the last man, but all she really wanted was to help Kerrigan. She never questioned the fact she was ordered to kill humans specifically to save another human. Just being helpful to her creator was enough for her. This way of framing the Zerg as a potentially positive force is narratively important, as is Kerrigan completely misreading what's going on with her association with the Zerg. Finally, we actually get some very subtle and important characterization for Acrturus in these scenes. He was almost a non-entity in WoL by design, relying more on the shadow he cast than anything he was doing to act as our primary villain. We're still going that here, but now we're much more direct. First, we get that comment from Valerian, that his father won't even hesitate to kill him if it means killing Kerrigan. Then we get this public address and the story of killing Raynor, which we have every reason to believe is a lie. Putting two and two together on these comments brings us to an inescapable conclusion: Arcturus is GOADING Kerrigan. He knows that she's slipped away, and rather than allow her to go to ground, he's trying to bait her into striking. Like Valerian said, he will do ANYTHING to kill her, and from this sequence of events that means being ruthless, but it also means being cunning. Whatever storm falls on him for sticking a knife in Kerrigan's most vulnerable spot is worth it, because it means she'll come to him, and he'll get his shot to put her down. In the context of who Kerrigan used to be in SC1 and Brood War, there's obviously a lot that could rub people the wrong way in these scenes. I think most of the same goals could have been served and made her look a lot less lovely if she'd simply taken Raynor's dropship strait to the Zerg without the interlude of smacking around Valerian and looking like a idiot. I also think its fair to call how heavily this Female Main Character is predicating her characterization on a man problematic. But honestly, I can see what they're trying to accomplish here, and if you're willing to look at just SC2 (including WoL) in a vacuum, they're hitting more shots than they're missing so far. Of course, we're just getting started. Plenty of holes left to fall in...
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Dec 31, 2023 09:26
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i'm voting kaldir because i want to see zerg vs protoss
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Dec 31, 2023 09:54
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megane posted:Kaldir is probably the tactically-correct choice, but my vote’s for doing Char first to meet my favorite HotS character. Best boy only gets introduced if we go to Charr? Then let's go to Charr.
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Dec 31, 2023 10:26
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they knew each other for a month One. Month. granted that's only if you accept that the Queen of Blades stuff didn't count, otherwise they also spent a longer while antagonizing one another
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Dec 31, 2023 10:34
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Fun Fact: The Zergling that follows Kerrigan around is named Lefty, because his right tusk is broken. 
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Dec 31, 2023 10:59
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Kith posted:Fun Fact: The Zergling that follows Kerrigan around is named Lefty, because his right tusk is broken. I've decided Lefty is the hero zergling in Carbot's Starcrafts final season, and nothing will convince me of the contrary.
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Dec 31, 2023 11:17
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Voting Char because I haven't done it that way round before. Also I think doing it this way round will lead to having four women in a room at the same time, which isn't normally a thing that happens in a Blizzard game.
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Dec 31, 2023 12:34
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I'm voting Char to get an NPC as early as possible. Also a small spoiler to alleviate some people's concerns: She eventually pets the zergling.
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Dec 31, 2023 13:16
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There's a somewhat infamous review of Heart of the Swarm by one of the gaming news outlets that called attention to this cutscene, and the reviewer said that when they hit this point, his eight year old daughter who had been watching him play went "Daddy, isn't the bad guy just making that up to hurt her?"
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Dec 31, 2023 13:53
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Sanguinia posted:there's obviously a lot that could rub people the wrong way in these scenes. ... I also think its fair to call how heavily this Female Main Character is predicating her characterization on a man problematic. It genuinely completely lost me just by trying to make Kerrigan "good" again. I liked evil Kerrigan! She was interesting! She was different! Good Kerrigan just feels like an extremely generic character that loses a lot of why I cared about her. They even boiled her character design back to something more "standard." I could probably accept a Kerrigan redemption arc but Kerrigan just getting blasted with the Xel'naga Redemption Laser is just so loving bad.
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Dec 31, 2023 14:26
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Kaldir is the correct choice. Purely because you get more interesting units earlier. Sure zerglings are good but it's so dull to not have anything else.Cythereal posted:There's a somewhat infamous review of Heart of the Swarm by one of the gaming news outlets that called attention to this cutscene, and the reviewer said that when they hit this point, his eight year old daughter who had been watching him play went "Daddy, isn't the bad guy just making that up to hurt her?" 
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Dec 31, 2023 14:41
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Cythereal posted:There's a somewhat infamous review of Heart of the Swarm by one of the gaming news outlets that called attention to this cutscene, and the reviewer said that when they hit this point, his eight year old daughter who had been watching him play went "Daddy, isn't the bad guy just making that up to hurt her?" Link? I distinctly remember it but I can't find it anymore. The fix would be so easy. Just have Kerrigan acknowledge that the broadcast was probably propaganda next cutscene, then adding "oh, also keep out an eye for Jim" to her motivations and objectives. As propaganda Mengsk's video is fine, as motivator for Kerrigan going on the warpath it'sserviceable, but Kerri falling for it for more than 5 minutes is insulting.
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Dec 31, 2023 15:02
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Sanguinia posted:We also have this really interesting element of the Zergling in the scene. Kerrigan associates the swarm with that violence, that part of herself she fears. Regardless of its meaning in a meta-narrative sense, she's clearly taken comfort within the story's universe from this notion that the Queen of Blades was some other, separate persona, and she wasn't responsible for what "that person," did. She worries that being in mental contact with the Zerg is why she slipped so easily into being that person, which is why she was nervous enough about reaching out to them in the lab that she was willing to say it to Jim out loud, and why she ran away from them after she caught herself giving that order to kill all the Terrans and heard the Swarm Queen rejoice in response. Yeah, for all the dumb poo poo in the story of HoTS, the zergling "pet" was not one of them, it was a cool bit of (not exactly subtle, but still effective) symbolism. It's notable that this particular zergling looks kind of hosed up? Like it's got a broken horn and injured leg. The idea of an old "veteran" zergling is a bit weird, they're literally designed to be expendable cannon fodder, but it gives the impression that this zergling, like Kerrigan, has Been Through Some poo poo, or even as if she and it have been through some poo poo together, like he was her war buddy back when she was still the Zerg queen. Almost certainly not the case, but that was the vibe I got from the scene: the zergling is there to welcome Kerrigan back like an old pal.
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Dec 31, 2023 15:34
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veteran zerglings are the ones that have been alive for more than five minutes
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Dec 31, 2023 15:48
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Gameplay decisions and justifications aside, it's also fun to think about what the "canon" order for this would be. Would Kerrigan be angry and seeing enough red to just bullrush right to Char in the idea of "this was my HQ, and the first goddamn thing I'm going to do is take it back and take EVERY GODDAMN ZERG THERE WITH ME TO RAM DOWN ARCTURUS' THROAT"? Or would she approach this a bit more thoughtfully, and go for the more out-of-the-way Brood first, to build up her forces before attacking the Dominion-Occupied Char? Spoiler within, because there IS an implied canon order here: Flashbacks from one of the comics released later actually suggest that Kaldir gets delayed as long as possible, for reasons that are too spoilery to even mention in spoiler tags just yet. Also, the Zergling actually has an official name: Broken Horn. It even ends up featuring in a Short Story written to celebrate Starcraft 2's 10th anniversary. BlazetheInferno fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Dec 31, 2023 |
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Dec 31, 2023 16:01
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There's the seeds of a good story here. Kerrigan torn between the opportunity to be human again and have companionship from something other than her animalistic mindslave-children, vs the addictive power and security of ruling over the Swarm. Where capturing Jim also meant Mengsk took that opportunity away from her and she is tragically forced back into the same life the terrans had gone to such lengths to save her from. In that respect, whether Raynor is alive or not doesn't really matter - what's important is that she's alone in a hostile environment, no one is coming to help and only her power over the Zerg can save her. She doesn't have to believe Mengsk, she only needs to infer that he is confident Raynor isn't going to be turning up to save the day. Unfortunately this all gets sublimated into Kerrigan's true love for the guy she spent a couple of months with several years ago. She's not falling to the zerg side out of her struggle with fear and temptation when left with no support. She's breaking down in tears at being told by the evil regime that her boyfriend is dead, and then going all Hell Hath No Fury to avenge him. I'll grant one thing, that properly playing out this story would probably need more time spent on Kerrigan's time before returning to lead the Swarm. Which isn't a great way to introduce your "Lead the Swarm" campaign. But still, they could have done better than having your protagonist enter the war by curling up and crying.
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Dec 31, 2023 16:06
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BlazetheInferno posted:Gameplay decisions and justifications aside, it's also fun to think about what the "canon" order for this would be. This is pretty much why I voted Char. Kerrigan in both games is eminently goadable (see also the first actual appearance of Tassadar in SC1:Zerg 6), and Mengsk specifically mentioning cleansing Char in the broadcast will 100% have her go "oh no you loving don't" and jump over there to kick some Dominion rear end.
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Dec 31, 2023 16:10
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Tenebrais posted:I'll grant one thing, that properly playing out this story would probably need more time spent on Kerrigan's time before returning to lead the Swarm. Which isn't a great way to introduce your "Lead the Swarm" campaign. But still, they could have done better than having your protagonist enter the war by curling up and crying. My thinking, if you really want to go with this angle: Melt more of it into the WoL campaign. Have the rebels capture Kerrigan halfway through the campaign(perhaps after a mission to lure her out of hiding) and keep her captive while looking for the Xel'naga thingummy to purify her, they could work on some deprogramming and stuff perhaps enough that she wants to be de-zerged by the time you get there, with Mengsk trying to capture the rebels+kill Kerrigan and the Swarm trying to recapture their queen.
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Dec 31, 2023 16:14
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:they knew each other for a month Tenebrais posted:Unfortunately this all gets sublimated into Kerrigan's true love for the guy she spent a couple of months with several years ago. To be fair, this is after Raynor spent a ton of time and effort to get her a new lease on life instead of putting a bullet in her head like he originally swore he would. Raynor is pretty much the only reason she's still alive, and a romance borne out of a rescue is not an uncommon thing. Plus, Kerrigan spent several years being Space Satan, and Raynor's probably the only person that's genuinely willing to forgive her or not walk on eggshells around her, and that probably means a lot to her (especially since she can read minds and knows that he's honest about how much he cares). Is it still a cheap, silly plot point? Absolutely. But it's a completely believable plot point, given all of the context. Of course, there's plenty of other poo poo that's way worse coming down the pipeline.
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Dec 31, 2023 16:35
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My new headcanon: Lefty/Broken Horn is somehow the very same zergling Lester and Sarge hit back in SC1.
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Dec 31, 2023 16:49
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So, instead of "I'm gonna get Mengsk!" she was at the start of the game, she's now "I'm really gonna get Mengsk"?Cythereal posted:There's a somewhat infamous review of Heart of the Swarm by one of the gaming news outlets that called attention to this cutscene, and the reviewer said that when they hit this point, his eight year old daughter who had been watching him play went "Daddy, isn't the bad guy just making that up to hurt her?" 12. One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation. -- the evil overlord list.
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Dec 31, 2023 16:49
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Kith posted:veteran zerglings are the ones that have been alive for more than five minutes This zergling is a Devouring One, or one of the funny ones from Insurrection like Devours Children (yes really)
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Dec 31, 2023 18:22
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Omobono posted:The fix would be so easy. Just have Kerrigan acknowledge that the broadcast was probably propaganda next cutscene, then adding "oh, also keep out an eye for Jim" to her motivations and objectives. If they really wanted to be clever, they could have looped this back to the first mission. You can have her believe Raynor is dead for a second, after all she was in an emotionally vulnerable place right before hearing this, but then (arguably thanks to comforting presence of the Zergling) have her think about it for a second and realize that this must be a manipulation. Maybe Mengsk did kill Jim, but its also highly likely that he kept him alive for the same reason he made this broadcast: he's trying to control what Kerrigan is going to do. In response, Kerrigan could then resolve to teach her dear friend Arcturus the same lesson she did to his son: that you can't control the Zerg. She's going to do exactly what he wants her to do, and he's going to live just long enough to regret having the idea.
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Dec 31, 2023 19:08
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Gun Jam posted:So, instead of "I'm gonna get Mengsk!" she was at the start of the game, she's now "I'm really gonna get Mengsk"? Before it was "I can't have peace as long as he's alive" and now it's "welp peace is not an option at all" so she's going to be a lot less reluctant about doing warcrimes in pursuit of revenge? Though it would be really funny to see her trying to teach zerglings what a 'noncombatant' is.
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Dec 31, 2023 20:47
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silentsnack posted:Before it was "I can't have peace as long as he's alive" and now it's "welp peace is not an option at all" so she's going to be a lot less reluctant about doing warcrimes in pursuit of revenge? Some mini-doll vendor wonders why they just got an order for literal billions of random dog plushies to be shipped into Zerg space
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Dec 31, 2023 20:54
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Kith posted:To be fair, this is after Raynor spent a ton of time and effort to get her a new lease on life instead of putting a bullet in her head like he originally swore he would. Raynor is pretty much the only reason she's still alive, and a romance borne out of a rescue is not an uncommon thing. Plus, Kerrigan spent several years being Space Satan, and Raynor's probably the only person that's genuinely willing to forgive her or not walk on eggshells around her, and that probably means a lot to her (especially since she can read minds and knows that he's honest about how much he cares). Yeah, it may be more than Blizzard's writers deserve, but I'm honestly willing to believe Kerrigan's fixation on Jim for reasons beyond TWOO WUV -- even if you don't include Wings of Liberty as released, or at all. Based on the information available to us from SC1 + Brood War, Jim Raynor (and possibly the Magistrate) is the only person Sarah Kerrigan's basically EVER interacted with who showed any interest in interacting with her in any way that wasn't purely manipulative, business, or strategic. It may only have been a month, but one month is more than anyone else -- the Confederacy, Mengsk, Duke, Duran, the UED, the Zerg -- gave her. Even considering Raynor swore he'd kill her himself at the end of Brood War, that's STILL a better success rate than any of the other options. If you're looking for some kind of anchor as Sarah Kerrigan, he's basically it. Factoring in WoL's original storyline, or the SC2 release storyline, only intensifies that.
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Dec 31, 2023 21:08
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Do you think there's a zerg gosplan
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Dec 31, 2023 21:11
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PurpleXVI posted:I never really used the Zerg arsenal much, playing on Normal difficulty, you can handle close to everything just with a swarm of appropriately upgraded Zerglings. It's probably the easiest Normal I've ever encountered in an RTS game. I was given the distinct impression the meta was changed to steer Zerg players away from ZERGRUSHKEKEKEKEKEKE'ing everything to bits. Nostalgamus posted:Also a small spoiler to alleviate some people's concerns: She eventually pets the zergling. Even Hitler had a dog. PurpleXVI posted:I could probably accept a Kerrigan redemption arc but Kerrigan just getting blasted with the Xel'naga fixed Cythereal posted:There's a somewhat infamous review of Heart of the Swarm by one of the gaming news outlets that called attention to this cutscene, and the reviewer said that when they hit this point, his eight year old daughter who had been watching him play went "Daddy, isn't the bad guy just making that up to hurt her?"  awwwwwsilentsnack posted:Before it was "I can't have peace as long as he's alive" and now it's "welp peace is not an option at all" so she's going to be a lot less reluctant about doing warcrimes in pursuit of revenge? You'd be surprised at the IFF shenanigans a properly developed hive mind can accomplish.
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Dec 31, 2023 21:22
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Y'all gotta remember that characters without names don't matter in Blizzard games. There are no warcrimes, just cool set pieces of exploding cities that don't mean anything morally.
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Dec 31, 2023 22:03
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does this mean that every Zerg under Kerrigan's control is also in love with Jim Raynor
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Dec 31, 2023 22:27
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So that's why they rushed his base so hard in all in.
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Dec 31, 2023 22:30
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BlazetheInferno posted:Also, the Zergling actually has an official name: Broken Horn. It even ends up featuring in a Short Story written to celebrate Starcraft 2's 10th anniversary. 
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Dec 31, 2023 23:22
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Occupation: Zergling is a great thread title.
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Dec 31, 2023 23:31
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GrandTheftAutism posted:If they're telling the truth (which they are), they've shot themselves in the foot by not allowing Kerrigan to be distracted by looking for Raynor (instead of marshalling the troops and laying waste to the Dominion like she will soon be doing). wait, so Jimbo is actually dead? 
Nissin Cup Nudist fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Jan 1, 2024 |
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Jan 1, 2024 02:25
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Drakenel posted:Occupation: Zergling is a great thread title. 
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Jan 1, 2024 02:32
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Redeye Flight posted:Yeah, it may be more than Blizzard's writers deserve, but I'm honestly willing to believe Kerrigan's fixation on Jim for reasons beyond TWOO WUV -- even if you don't include Wings of Liberty as released, or at all. Based on the information available to us from SC1 + Brood War, Jim Raynor (and possibly the Magistrate) is the only person Sarah Kerrigan's basically EVER interacted with who showed any interest in interacting with her in any way that wasn't purely manipulative, business, or strategic. It may only have been a month, but one month is more than anyone else -- the Confederacy, Mengsk, Duke, Duran, the UED, the Zerg -- gave her. Unfortunately, this is Heart of the Swarm, rather than something that isn't written terribly. 
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Jan 1, 2024 06:46
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BlazetheInferno posted:Also, the Zergling actually has an official name: Broken Horn. It even ends up featuring in a Short Story written to celebrate Starcraft 2's 10th anniversary. Huh! I've only ever heard it called Lefty. Neat!
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Jan 1, 2024 09:35
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Tenebrais posted:There's the seeds of a good story here. Kerrigan torn between the opportunity to be human again and have companionship from something other than her animalistic mindslave-children, vs the addictive power and security of ruling over the Swarm. Where capturing Jim also meant Mengsk took that opportunity away from her and she is tragically forced back into the same life the terrans had gone to such lengths to save her from. In that respect, whether Raynor is alive or not doesn't really matter - what's important is that she's alone in a hostile environment, no one is coming to help and only her power over the Zerg can save her. She doesn't have to believe Mengsk, she only needs to infer that he is confident Raynor isn't going to be turning up to save the day. I think you can pretty easily integrate this with "Lead the Swarm" by having Kerrigan put into situations where she initially has no other option but to use the zerg, as is here, then showing her just opt for the swarm over and over even when there are other more compelling choices available.
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Jan 1, 2024 19:45
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Natural 20 posted:I think you can pretty easily integrate this with "Lead the Swarm" by having Kerrigan put into situations where she initially has no other option but to use the zerg, as is here, then showing her just opt for the swarm over and over even when there are other more compelling choices available. ...Which then leads to a "come to Jesus" moment where Kerrigan has a moment of self-realization at how dependent she's become on the Zerg, swears to herself that she'll stop using them for the next mission... only for it to be a situation where she really, really needed them, and her refusal suddenly costs her dearly.
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Jan 1, 2024 20:40
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Redeye Flight posted:Yeah, it may be more than Blizzard's writers deserve, but I'm honestly willing to believe Kerrigan's fixation on Jim for reasons beyond TWOO WUV -- even if you don't include Wings of Liberty as released, or at all. Based on the information available to us from SC1 + Brood War, Jim Raynor (and possibly the Magistrate) is the only person Sarah Kerrigan's basically EVER interacted with who showed any interest in interacting with her in any way that wasn't purely manipulative, business, or strategic. It may only have been a month, but one month is more than anyone else -- the Confederacy, Mengsk, Duke, Duran, the UED, the Zerg -- gave her. Kerrigan is a child soldier. She has always been a tool for those around her until the end of Brood War. I'm betting her emotional maturity is not very good. Plus the fact she's grown up in a world where it was normal to black bag people, and the media was constantly controlled, it makes sense that she wouldn't have the understanding that Jim's death would be faked. Also, for the record, Matt is supposed to be the Magistrate from SC1.
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Jan 1, 2024 21:21
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