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fatherboxx)
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fatherboxx posted:Truth is, if the western supplies are going to dwindle, such strikes are going to be more frequent, I fear, from the lack of options. There is that argument that a swift (or sooner) victory for Ukraine will tremendously lessen civilian death and suffering which might imply that the West should provide all assistance to do that. It's a humanitarian argument that really can't be ignored. And a Ukrainian loss will mean much more civilian suffering and humanitarian outage under the Russian heel. I'm inclined to ignore all the political arguments, including ones about the aftermath and just accept the humanitarian one and get it the gently caress over to end the suffering.
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Dec 31, 2023 01:15
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TropicalCoke posted:On asset freezes. The breadth of goon knowledge never ceases to amaze me.
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Dec 31, 2023 01:26
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Plus there is a time element. The longer the war drags out even if there is some kind of strategic rationale, the more time for the West to shoot itself and everyone else in the dick electing a Trump or LePen derailing the support train that way.
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Dec 31, 2023 01:37
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Is Russia going to argue to the UN that they are the only ones who have the right to bomb their enemies cities? Like, what the hell. They've been bombing cities daily for the last few weeks
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Dec 31, 2023 01:42
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the popes toes posted:There is that argument that a swift (or sooner) victory for Ukraine will tremendously lessen civilian death and suffering which might imply that the West should provide all assistance to do that. It's a humanitarian argument that really can't be ignored. And a Ukrainian loss will mean much more civilian suffering and humanitarian outage under the Russian heel. I'm inclined to ignore all the political arguments, including ones about the aftermath and just accept the humanitarian one and get it the gently caress over to end the suffering. as we have seen with palestine, political and economic concerns will almost always trump humanitarian ones
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Dec 31, 2023 01:54
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Collapsing Farts posted:Is Russia going to argue to the UN that they are the only ones who have the right to bomb their enemies cities? Like, what the hell. They've been bombing cities daily for the last few weeks Try last two years. It generally doesn't enter Western news unless it's really big.
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Dec 31, 2023 02:35
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Oh ffs I have seen zero evidence of Ukraine targeting maternity hospitals and shopping malls. They have a right to shoot at military targets, and if Russia intercepts them and the falling wreckage kills civilians, it's a tragedy, but it's not at all the same thing as deliberately targeting those same civilians. Intent matters, so please stop edging towards both-siding this.
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Dec 31, 2023 04:23
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Ynglaur posted:Oh ffs I have seen zero evidence of Ukraine targeting maternity hospitals and shopping malls. They have a right to shoot at military targets, and if Russia intercepts them and the falling wreckage kills civilians, the it's a tragedy, but it's not at all the same thing as deliberately targeting those same civilians. Intent matters, so please stop edging towards both-siding this. This exact argument can be used to excuse Russian strikes on civilian targets as well. Instead of trying to divine intent, I think militaries are responsible for the damage to civilians that occur as a result of their actions, even if that result wasn't their specific intent
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Dec 31, 2023 13:38
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A big flaming stink posted:This exact argument can be used to excuse Russian strikes on civilian targets as well. Instead of trying to divine intent, I think militaries are responsible for the damage to civilians that occur as a result of their actions, even if that result wasn't their specific intent Um, no. That's not how the law of armed conflict works at all. The arguments are quite different, and intent does matter.
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Dec 31, 2023 13:48
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A big flaming stink posted:This exact argument can be used to excuse Russian strikes on civilian targets as well. Instead of trying to divine intent, I think militaries are responsible for the damage to civilians that occur as a result of their actions, even if that result wasn't their specific intent That's an idiotic position to take. Following this logic with a hypothetical: You fire the most accurate weapon ever created at a purely military target, it never misses and only ever destroys your intended target. Your enemy fires an incredibly inaccurate counter weapon from the middle of a city that misses 99% of the time. These misses kill civilians, somehow according to your logic you are to blame for this, not the people actually directly causing the civilian casualties.
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Dec 31, 2023 14:17
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The more logically coherent response is that Russia retains ultimate responsibility period because Russia started the war and without Russian aggression no one would die at all. There's still a general duty of care to avoid civilian casualties and you can argue proximate cause etc. but ultimately it's on Russia.
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Dec 31, 2023 14:45
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A big flaming stink posted:This exact argument can be used to excuse Russian strikes on civilian targets as well. Instead of trying to divine intent, I think militaries are responsible for the damage to civilians that occur as a result of their actions, even if that result wasn't their specific intent The aggressor state is responsible for both the deaths they cause and the deaths the defenders cause. They're all Russia's fault.
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Dec 31, 2023 15:01
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Bel Shazar posted:The aggressor state is responsible for both the deaths they cause and the deaths the defenders cause. They're all Russia's fault. This is not true.
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Dec 31, 2023 15:05
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Bel Shazar posted:The aggressor state is responsible for both the deaths they cause and the deaths the defenders cause. They're all Russia's fault. In some sort of philosophical sense, sure, it's ultimately Russia's fault. That doesn't mean Ukraine doesn't have an obligation to take appropriate precautions against civilian casualties. The definition of "appropriate" being highly controversial of course.
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Dec 31, 2023 15:25
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Phoneposting, but there’s an article in The Washington Post today about files showing Russia is trying to manipulate French politics against Ukraine. It appears to name names.
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Dec 31, 2023 15:27
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Discendo Vox posted:Phoneposting, but there’s an article in The Washington Post today about files showing Russia is trying to manipulate French politics against Ukraine. It appears to name names. Were those files pulled from the cabinet labeled "yeah no poo poo"
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Dec 31, 2023 17:21
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A big flaming stink posted:This exact argument can be used to excuse Russian strikes on civilian targets as well. Instead of trying to divine intent, I think militaries are responsible for the damage to civilians that occur as a result of their actions, even if that result wasn't their specific intent Uh, I think it matters quite a bit that Russian attacks are very clearly conducted with the clear intent to hit civilian targets while Ukrainian attacks do not appear to be. Which is specifically why Ukrainians are infrequently hitting civilians - often as a direct result of countermeasures causing them to hit poo poo like an empty parking lot - as opposed to a constant stream of Russian attacks on civilian targets like infrastructure and residential buildings. Conducting a punitive artillery bombardment on a suburb is not the same as a drone on its way to an ammo dump getting shot down and blowing up a car. The moral calculus for collateral damage is also a little different, in my opinion, when a cruise missile/drone is shot down by defenders who could reasonably expect the missile was targeted at civilians. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Dec 31, 2023 |
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Dec 31, 2023 18:20
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I just saw a report on Bluesky that the Ukrainians hacked Russian credit card readers. https://bsky.app/profile/noelreports.bsky.social/post/3khufduyswu2g
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Dec 31, 2023 20:25
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The X-man cometh posted:I just saw a report on Bluesky that the Ukrainians hacked Russian credit card readers. What does that accomplish? Seems like this would negatively affect poor and middle class Russians at a very vulnerable time. Unless there's something else going on.
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Dec 31, 2023 23:10
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Nitrox posted:What does that accomplish? Seems like this would negatively affect poor and middle class Russians at a very vulnerable time. Unless there's something else going on. Bringing the war home in nonviolent ways is a valid tactic. They’re not going to pierce the media veil so hit them directly.
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Dec 31, 2023 23:12
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TK-42-1 posted:Bringing the war home in nonviolent ways is a valid tactic. They’re not going to pierce the media veil so hit them directly. I understand hacking state media outlets or public advertising displays to convey anti-war messaging, which happened multiple times. But making credit cards not work is not even in the same ballpark. Unless this was the monetary system of choice for some sort of military procurement, I remain confused
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Dec 31, 2023 23:22
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Nitrox posted:I understand hacking state media outlets or public advertising displays to convey anti-war messaging, which happened multiple times. But making credit cards not work is not even in the same ballpark. Unless this was the monetary system of choice for some sort of military procurement, I remain confused Both sides are doing this to each other. And how do you think that making payment terminals in shops hurts "the poor and middle class"? Boohoo, they have to go to the ATM and draw cash for their groceries? If anything it affects the rich more, because while carrying suitcases of money is normal oligarch stuff, it's not convenient when you are shopping for jewels for your mistress. If it hurts someone then it's the shops that have to go back to cash until the hack gets fixed (if it hasn't already).
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Dec 31, 2023 23:33
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Nitrox posted:I understand hacking state media outlets or public advertising displays to convey anti-war messaging, which happened multiple times. But making credit cards not work is not even in the same ballpark. Unless this was the monetary system of choice for some sort of military procurement, I remain confused Seems that it only affected a particular card terminal type, and not a widely deployed one as well
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Dec 31, 2023 23:42
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Nenonen posted:Both sides are doing this to each other. And how do you think that making payment terminals in shops hurts "the poor and middle class"? Boohoo, they have to go to the ATM and draw cash for their groceries? If anything it affects the rich more, because while carrying suitcases of money is normal oligarch stuff, it's not convenient when you are shopping for jewels for your mistress. If it hurts someone then it's the shops that have to go back to cash until the hack gets fixed (if it hasn't already). Yeah I would not expect this to affect the very rich nearly as much as you think it would.
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Dec 31, 2023 23:43
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Is there any credible evidence that Ukraine is responsible for this? Credit card readers are a pretty popular target for hacking campaigns even in a non-war context.
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Jan 1, 2024 00:08
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Rahu posted:Is there any credible evidence that Ukraine is responsible for this? Credit card readers are a pretty popular target for hacking campaigns even in a non-war context. This is the group that claims responsibility. IDK if they are credible. https://twitter.com/ITArmyUKR/status/1741423756831019063?s=20 Source attributing this to them: https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1741482471315624423?s=20
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Jan 1, 2024 06:13
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Didn't know they had a twitter, thank 
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Jan 1, 2024 07:25
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So this is actually a state-sanctioned cyberwarfare group eh. I'm doubtful of any significant economic damage, mostly just annoying everyday people I would imagine. Also doesn't really square with this https://www.independent.co.uk/news/ukraine-russia-kremlin-boston-hackers-b2028853.html (Ukraine cyber official: We only attack military targets) They've previously attacked taxis in Moscow https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/3/23335694/hackers-traffic-jam-russia-moscow-ride-hailing-app-yandex-taxi which is obviously not a military target. It's whatever, but I'm pretty sure there's an element of this IT Army that's just having fun under the guise of cyberwarfare lol
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Jan 1, 2024 15:19
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Nenonen posted:Both sides are doing this to each other. And how do you think that making payment terminals in shops hurts "the poor and middle class"? Boohoo, they have to go to the ATM and draw cash for their groceries? If anything it affects the rich more, because while carrying suitcases of money is normal oligarch stuff, it's not convenient when you are shopping for jewels for your mistress. If it hurts someone then it's the shops that have to go back to cash until the hack gets fixed (if it hasn't already). Uhhh you are way off, even in small towns people are mostly doing cashless transactions these days. I literally haven't heard about this hack anywhere but here so you can probably write it off as another fake hype thing for worthless twitter accounts. https://twitter.com/WarVehicle/status/1741823148163481971?t=dSGmb5jOtkp9Q0zKMDRbCw&s=19 Meanwhile, Russians finally managed to catch HIMARS in a sight of a drone, but apparently failed to hit it.
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Jan 1, 2024 17:50
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fatherboxx posted:Uhhh you are way off, even in small towns people are mostly doing cashless transactions these days. That's just a matter of convenience. Unless Russian stores have entirely stopped accepting cash, which I doubt. But you are most likely correct, even if it happened it's not like it's an irreversible problem and Russia has returned to barter economy. Banks and payment processors deal with hackers, ddossers and software failures all the time.
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Jan 1, 2024 18:21
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Most “making common russians feel the war, got em” hype social media poo poo I never see mentioned by any common russians. It’s just good tummy feels for western social media observers. First big one I remember was people going apeshit that a Best Buy drone chipped the Kremlin’s paint while Russia continued to give no shits.
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Jan 1, 2024 19:14
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A tweet about German 155 production. Retweeted by an account that is reliable but I know nothing about artillery shell production. https://x.com/deaidua/status/1741857264615538705?s=20
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Jan 2, 2024 02:04
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MikeC posted:A tweet about German 155 production. Retweeted by an account that is reliable but I know nothing about artillery shell production. Huh. Didn't know that about the powder needing to cure for about 6 months before the shell can be made. Really answers a lot of questions as to why ramping up is so slow. Here's an FXTwitter link for those who've escaped that hellsite and no longer have an account. https://fxtwitter.com/deaidua/status/1741857264615538705
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Jan 2, 2024 03:49
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Tried to google for more info, i assume i'm now on a list somewhere.  It does have a shelf life, bit surprised it needs a six month curing time though.
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Jan 2, 2024 05:58
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Did the EU ministers of defense not know of this 6 month delay when they announced 1 million shells would be sent in 2023? In that post it's mentioned 'local politics' is preventing new factories from being built and 'a solution is not yet in sight' which seems a much bigger issue then a 6 month delay after 20 months of war. https://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p4013coll8/id/3332/ The US was somehow able to massively scale up ammo production 70 years ago in far less then six months. In February 1942 production was already 700 thousand 105 and 155mm shells in addition to thousands of 16/14 inch shells and millions of smaller caliber rounds. I'd be interested to see if this six months is needed for powder to be explosive at all or a regulatory requirement to reach the needed level of stability for it to be allowed to be used in production. One thing also not mentioned is how banks and large investors like pension funds will not invest in any arms manufacturing as part of their charter. CeeJee fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Jan 2, 2024 |
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Jan 2, 2024 08:13
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So recently Ukraine has posted their air defense taking down drones but noticeably I haven't seen any reports about taking down many missiles. Has Russia found a way to get missiles mostly through Ukrainian air defense?
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Jan 2, 2024 09:04
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Bashez posted:So recently Ukraine has posted their air defense taking down drones but noticeably I haven't seen any reports about taking down many missiles. Has Russia found a way to get missiles mostly through Ukrainian air defense? The last couple of days were more drone-heavy, I believe. But missiles are just harder to take down in general. So they manage to down on average at least 80% of drones, for missiles it's closer to 60%.
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Jan 2, 2024 09:28
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CeeJee posted:I'd be interested to see if this six months is needed for powder to be explosive at all or a regulatory requirement to reach the needed level of stability for it to be allowed to be used in production. That company's shells might also be designed for that specific powder. Changing to a different blend would likely require testing to figure out how the new formula shells would perform.
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Jan 2, 2024 12:36
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CeeJee posted:The US was somehow able to massively scale up ammo production 70 years ago in far less then six months. In February 1942 production was already 700 thousand 105 and 155mm shells in addition to thousands of 16/14 inch shells and millions of smaller caliber rounds. I'd be interested to see if this six months is needed for powder to be explosive at all or a regulatory requirement to reach the needed level of stability for it to be allowed to be used in production. Not my area of expertise, but the US began expanding its arms production in 1940. It was fast, but I don't know that it was less than six months. We certainly had more raw factory capacity back then for that type of thing, though.
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Jan 2, 2024 14:55
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Bashez posted:So recently Ukraine has posted their air defense taking down drones but noticeably I haven't seen any reports about taking down many missiles. Has Russia found a way to get missiles mostly through Ukrainian air defense? Today: https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1742115256283926755#m .. sadly I do think they have been less effective overall lately, they are likely very low on S-300 missiles and Western replacements aren't enough to cover the entier country. (The Kh-31Ps are also particularly worrisome).
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Jan 2, 2024 15:06
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