|
Gripweed posted:...yes? Do you not follow the news? Hamas delivered a serious blow to the credibility of Israel's security state. The Taliban retook Afghanistan in a week. The Houthis have been able to seriously disrupt shipping to Israel. Recent years have been full of very impressive achievements by small military groups with little funding. Lol
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 15:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 13:21 |
|
|
Gripweed posted:. The Houthis I don’t know who or what this is but this feels racist
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 16:25
|
|
|
oldpainless posted:I don’t know who or what this is Yeah that's why they're called that. Who this?
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 16:32
|
|
|
oldpainless posted:I don’t know who or what this is but this feels racist I think they sang Let Her Cry and Only Wanna Be with You.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 16:37
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:People say that the US only loses so many wars because they're little lovely wars and our army is set up to win big proper wars. If we got into another proper war with big tank battles and fighter plane dogfights and naval engagements and the like, we'd win easily. But frankly, I don't think we would. I think we'd lose a proper war too. If you think the US military is inept, wait till you see Russia and China
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 16:46
|
|
|
The US military is like a basketball player who dominates in the paint but can't hit a field goal to save their life. The old-timers insist that the second part doesn't actually matter and that they're still G.O.A.T. regardless of how the game has evolved. Edit: Forget "Sir Charles." We got Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Charles. Nameless Pete has a new favorite as of 17:12 on Jan 2, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 16:55
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:...yes? Do you not follow the news? Hamas delivered a serious blow to the credibility of Israel's security state. The Taliban retook Afghanistan in a week. The Houthis have been able to seriously disrupt shipping to Israel. Recent years have been full of very impressive achievements by small military groups with little funding. Jesus Christ
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 19:03
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:...yes? Do you not follow the news? Hamas delivered a serious blow to the credibility of Israel's security state. The Taliban retook Afghanistan in a week. The Houthis have been able to seriously disrupt shipping to Israel. Recent years have been full of very impressive achievements by small military groups with little funding. …Hamas took the IDF by surprise while it was deployed halfway across the country to deal with riots. It also primarily targeted civilians. It’s very much not winning right now as Gaza gets loving leveled. The Taliban didn’t even have to fight. The people of Afghanistan basically let them walk in and take over the place because there wasn’t a a will to fight and defend what institutions existed. That’s a political victory not a military one. The Houthis just encountered the US military two days ago and three of their ships were sunk by US helicopters. Do you follow the news?
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 22:41
|
|
|
These political victories, in general, sure seem like they require military ones at certain points.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:04
|
|
|
thetoughestbean posted:…Hamas took the IDF by surprise Yeah they weren't supposed to be able to do that. That's the whole thing,
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:11
|
|
|
thetoughestbean posted:The Taliban didn’t even have to fight. [waking up from a coma I fell into in 1999] Sure sounds right to me!
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:13
|
|
|
Man, it's almost like politics are inherent to war and it's nonsensical to fantasy football armies. The US military is very capable, and the US government is very dumb. There, I solved this dumb argument about if the US has largely failed to realize its ostensible goals through hard power and if the whole world acts like America is scary just to be polite.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:15
|
|
|
Muscle Tracer posted:[waking up from a coma I fell into in 1999] Sure sounds right to me! The lying internet will tell you 2,000 American troops died in combat in Afghanistan. The truth is those were all drunk driving accidents. Do your own research.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:15
|
|
|
Kei Technical posted:The US military is very capable [citation needed]
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:19
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:Yeah they weren't supposed to be able to do that. That's the whole thing, Not going to even try to address the other points huh
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:20
|
|
|
poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:[citation needed] Years 1776-2023
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:23
|
|
|
poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:[citation needed] Is hegemony like the last slice of pie and it goes to whoever's just bold enough to take it?
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:24
|
|
|
thetoughestbean posted:Not going to even try to address the other points huh you're first one was so off base it was actually an argument in favor of my position, so it drew the most of my attention, sorry. But yeah, it's news to me that the Taliban weren't fighting in the Afghanistan war, and You're off base on the Houthi thing too, of course they can't win a naval battle with the American military but they were still able to gently caress up Israel in an unexpected way.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:25
|
|
|
oldpainless posted:Years 1776-2023 you're definitely starting that too early 
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:25
|
|
|
Hell, read anything about the American Civil War. Ayt the start the US military was marked by cowardice and incompetence throughout the officer class. There is a very strong historical case that General McClellan wanted the US to lose.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:28
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:Yeah they weren't supposed to be able to do that. That's the whole thing, Is the Gaza strip currently being ground into fine powder part of this brilliant military victory?
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:33
|
|
|
The Americans destroy one of the largest militaries in the world with no casualties, keep the country isolated for a decade, then destroy their replacement military with no casualties again, occupy the country for 15 more years before leaving: crushing military defeat, this is a proof of Western degeneracy The Yemeni fire a missile at a boat before the Americans send in gunboats: a triumphant strategic blow to the crumbling Western power, this is a sign of the end of American dominance steinrokkan has a new favorite as of 23:44 on Jan 2, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:38
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:you're first one was so off base it was actually an argument in favor of my position, so it drew the most of my attention, sorry. But yeah, it's news to me that the Taliban weren't fighting in the Afghanistan war, and You're off base on the Houthi thing too, of course they can't win a naval battle with the American military but they were still able to gently caress up Israel in an unexpected way. The Taliban didn’t win militarily it won by outlasting the political will to keep US troops in the region. Hamas took advantage of Netanyahu’s complacency and negligence killed and raped a lot of civilians. The IDF should have been in the region, sure, but let’s not pretend that this was some sort of military victory. The Houthis finally tried to take a military vessel after a month of attacking civilian vessels and were sunk for their trouble. Your premise that the US military is weak and dumb and would lose a peer-to-peer conflict (against who? China?) is just wishcasting and you’re trying to use ridicule examples to make your point
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:43
|
|
|
thetoughestbean posted:The Taliban didn’t win militarily it won by outlasting the political will to keep US troops in the region. Please try to follow the discussion. I said that the US military probably wouldn't do well in a peer to peer war. One of those Hillary av weirdos made a non sequitor post about the military capability of poor countries, which I responded to. Those are two separate arguments.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:49
|
|
|
oldpainless posted:Years 1776-2023 What military victories have we won in the last 40 years, exactly? Gripweed posted:Please try to follow the discussion. I said that the US military probably wouldn't do well in a peer to peer war. The US military has no peer in size or spending anywhere on Earth. Every single loss we suffer is against a smaller, less capable force, which leads one to wonder how it is we lose so drat often if we're even remotely competent. Shit Fuckasaurus has a new favorite as of 23:54 on Jan 2, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:51
|
|
|
poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:What military victories have we won in the last 40 years, exactly? Starting in 1984? First Gulf War, the NATO prevention of ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, the invasion of Iraq, the invasion of Afghanistan (we lost/failed to achieve goals in their occupations, however), the joint war against ISIS.
|
|
#
?
Jan 2, 2024 23:56
|
|
|
Git yer political goals outta my war! War is whoever kills the most of the other guys, wins. Simple.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2024 00:01
|
|
|
poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:The US military has no peer in size or spending anywhere on Earth. Every single loss we suffer is against a smaller, less capable force, which leads one to wonder how it is we lose so drat often if we're even remotely competent. Because you get into wars to score short term political points at home, not because you need to, and you don't care about what happens as a result after those wars are no longer uselful. You treat war the way most countries treat international soccer matches, and it's precisely because you have no peers to stop you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2024 00:02
|
|
|
Muscle Tracer posted:Git yer political goals outta my war! War is whoever kills the most of the other guys, wins. Simple. All war is political, yes, but you can clearly win militarily and still not achieve the goal you want because the goal you want is not achievable through physical force
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2024 00:05
|
|
|
I think Gripweed is assuming Russia or China must be peers to the US. An idea which, as the entire world has now seen, is laughable. The only way for a country to defeat the US is to have greater political will and determination. I say "only" but this turns out to be a pretty consistent strategy, actually. The United States is unmatched in terms of actually winning battles, both in terms of sheer size of industry, numbers, and technological advantage. It is like a tsunami, it absolutely wipes out anything it comes across. You win not by withstanding the initial impact, which is impossible given the differences in terms of firepower and technology. You win by leaving the area and coming back when the water inevitably recedes. Ukraine is currently being armed with US military surplus that's decades out of date and have fought Russia to a standstill. Literally the only reason Russia can still cling to their imperial ambitions right now is because they're throwing away ghastly amounts of lives and materiel into a grinder. That, and the United States lacks the political will to actually provide Ukraine with the means to win. Runa has a new favorite as of 01:29 on Jan 3, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2024 00:10
|
|
|
Every single victory against the US has been this https://twitter.com/dril/status/460673146451161088?lang=en except unironically
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2024 00:15
|
|
|
thetoughestbean posted:the invasion of Iraq, the invasion of Afghanistan (we lost/failed to achieve goals in their occupations, however), the joint war against ISIS. Bit of a stretch to call something a military victory when we failed to achieve any of the goals set out as justification for the operation. The US military over the last 40 years doesn't just have a losing record, it has a losing record among the list of supposed victories you hand-picked. Pathetic.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2024 00:15
|
|
|
These aren't very milquetoast opinions. Avocado sucks. The NFL playoffs are part of the holidays in the phrase "Happy Holidays" and the supposed Holiday season isn't over until the Super Bowl is finished.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2024 00:22
|
|
|
poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:Bit of a stretch to call something a military victory when we failed to achieve any of the goals set out as justification for the operation. The US military over the last 40 years doesn't just have a losing record, it has a losing record among the list of supposed victories you hand-picked. Pathetic. lol I think you're getting weirdly aggro about this
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2024 00:24
|
|
|
poo poo Fuckasaurus posted:Bit of a stretch to call something a military victory when we failed to achieve any of the goals set out as justification for the operation. The US military over the last 40 years doesn't just have a losing record, it has a losing record among the list of supposed victories you hand-picked. Pathetic. We've had lots of military victories. You're just confusing military objectives with political objectives.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2024 00:31
|
|
|
Atticus_1354 posted:We've had lots of military victories. You're just confusing military objectives with political objectives. I think enough people have been making this mistake that they go even further and confuse outlasting American political will with beating America on the battlefield. This sort of thinking is what led Russia to try to attack a US marine position at Khasham. They thought, we've got 500 people, they only have 40. We outnumber them ten to one, and Americans don't have the stomach for a real war. And both of those statements were true. The fact that these statements were true did not stop the US from, almost instantaneously, bringing the full force of their industrial might and technological advantage to bear and saw the Russians and pro-Assad forces wiped out within hours. This was the first indicator, to Russia in particular, that while they were a regional powerhouse they could not be a peer to the US. Simply put, in a conventional battle, the advantages were stacked too heavily on America's side. Incidentally, the Milquetoast Opinion that started this current topic of discussion: Gripweed posted:People say that the US only loses so many wars because they're little lovely wars and our army is set up to win big proper wars. If we got into another proper war with big tank battles and fighter plane dogfights and naval engagements and the like, we'd win easily. But frankly, I don't think we would. I think we'd lose a proper war too. lmfao tell us who you think could defeat the United States in a proper war
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2024 00:41
|
|
|
Runa posted:I think Gripweed is assuming Russia or China must be peers to the US. An idea which, as the entire world has now seen, is laughable. No I'm not? Atticus_1354 posted:We've had lots of military victories. You're just confusing military objectives with political objectives. We've gotta get a lot better at picking military objectives that contribute to political objectives then, because right now we look like real fuckups
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2024 00:43
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:No I'm not? Well then you're going to have to rephrase your statement because it's pretty vague
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2024 00:44
|
|
|
It’s like the Alamo. Did the US technically lose the battle of the Alamo? Yes, we did. But the other side lost ten times the number that we did.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2024 00:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 13:21 |
|
|
oldpainless posted:It’s like the Alamo. Did the US technically lose the battle of the Alamo? Yes, we did. But the other side lost ten times the number that we did. The US didn't lose the battle of the Alamo though? The US wasn't even there.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2024 00:59
|
|