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Where would Zay Flowers slot in if he was in this draft class rather than last years class? WR4/5?
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Jan 3, 2024 18:20
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I figured Odunze might have the best hands, but was hoping it might be some lesser prospect. Years back, 2014 I think, there was a detailed chart of stats on the consensus top ten WRs in the draft from some website that doesn't seem to exist anymore. Drop rate was one of the things that really stood out. Landry was somehow under 1% and Jordan Matthews was near 9%. I love that kind of break down with Yards of target, yards per route run, drop rate, and all that other good poo poo.
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Jan 3, 2024 18:35
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MHJ sitting out and Rome being an absolute dawg should make for some interesting takes in the lead up to the draft. I can’t see Rome jumping him if only because of Reggie Williams.
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Jan 3, 2024 18:39
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A Buffer Gay Dude posted:MHJ sitting out and Rome being an absolute dawg should make for some interesting takes in the lead up to the draft. I can’t see Rome jumping him if only because of Reggie Williams. I think it's more that MHJ is one of the best all around prospects in the last decade than teams being discouraged that someone from the same school busted 20 years ago.
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Jan 3, 2024 18:49
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Henchman of Santa posted:I think it's more that MHJ is one of the best all around prospects in the last decade than teams being discouraged that someone from the same school busted 20 years ago. You’re assuming nfl draft rooms don’t operate on vibes
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Jan 3, 2024 18:52
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Kevino07 posted:Where would Zay Flowers slot in if he was in this draft class rather than last years class? WR4/5? I don’t know about the draft but Zay’s usage has been kind of weird this season, so many poorly executed screens and stuff around the line of scrimmage. So his numbers are probably not representative of his full potential
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Jan 3, 2024 19:19
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A Buffer Gay Dude posted:You’re assuming nfl draft rooms don’t operate on vibes I think NFL GMs have been waiting for MHJ for a year. I don't like crowning people early but MHJ is insane. He's big, his acceleration is great for getting to the second level, and his body control lets him catch anything. That just spells premier Z receiver. McCord is kinda crappy and he had to reel in catches all year. Ryan Day offenses kind of show off WRs route trees too considering how long they take to develop. I think it makes his tape more visually appealing. Odunze's game is kind of identical to MHJ's which is why he's also going to go high. I think he'll have slightly worse measurables but who knows until the combine happens. Their offenses were completely different though. Grubb and DeBoer were all about sending Polk, Odunze, and McMillan at safeties to make them make decisions while having a leak out running back for Penix's safety valve. It was taking advantage of Penix's deep ball accuracy in all or nothing plays, kind of like Tennessee's offense last year. The difference was with Odunze running corner routes to give Penix options. This is a good deep dive on their offense: https://www.si.com/college/washington/football/diving-into-washingtons-offensive-scheme I have no idea what GMs value but I imagine when two guys are pretty similar they usually give the nod to the one that looks slightly bigger and has NFL bloodlines. I'm sure in 10 years we'll look back on NFL decision making and be like wtf for that. I think as always prospects bust or boom based on fit and prowess and the NFL draft isn't a science.
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Jan 3, 2024 20:00
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Kevino07 posted:Where would Zay Flowers slot in if he was in this draft class rather than last years class? WR4/5? 6ish? MHJ Odunze Coleman Nabers Worthy? Doltos posted:I think NFL GMs have been waiting for MHJ for a year. Yeah, the Washington offense is explicitly aimed at loving with modem nickel coverages and fits by abusing corner and flag routes against perpendicular cuts to not only force choices but guarantee the carry rules to pass guys in a pattern get screwed up. It’s the logical zag to what the “4 verts or bust” type of offense that Briles and now like Heupel run but can still borrow a few concepts like Choice as internal constraint plays. If they have the receivers to run it, your only real hope is to sit in man and go blow for blow right now because the receivers are too experienced to run zone against it. GMs aren’t going to love projecting some of the cross hash calls but it’s not like watching Hendon Hooker tape where you just throw like 80% of it out as things that don’t happen in the NFL
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Jan 3, 2024 21:32
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Doltos posted:I think NFL GMs have been waiting for MHJ for a year. That’s kinda what I mean. MHJ is the real deal but he’s been that way for years now, he’s inevitable. Rome is the hot new guy (who probably should have been up there the whole time but that’s another story) so the narratives are building. See also Williams and Maye. Also Marvin Harrison bloodlines? I hope the lines aren’t near a car wash!
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Jan 3, 2024 21:35
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Is Keon Coleman going to work in the NFL? It's a lot of contested catches.
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Jan 3, 2024 22:44
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Is Keon Coleman going to work in the NFL? It's a lot of contested catches. his combine is going to be insane, he's a huge fast dude who routinely makes circus catches. i think he'll be pretty solid as a pro, especially if he develops any real route running. a lot of the contested catches are bc he was the go-to security blanket this year. he'd get wide open a good bit too but he was the guy whenever they'd hit the redzone or need someone to come down with a duck thrown into coverage
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Jan 4, 2024 00:02
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I honestly think this draft is gonna go QB, QB, QB. With the Cardinals taking MHJ.
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Jan 8, 2024 01:44
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well the top 18 picks are set and that's a lot of QB needy teams for maybe 4? QBs that could go in that range
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Jan 8, 2024 06:02
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MHJ is going to drop to the Chargers and I’m going to be livid.
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Jan 8, 2024 06:03
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No Butt Stuff posted:MHJ is going to drop to the Chargers and I’m going to be livid. There's no chance in hell
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Jan 8, 2024 06:04
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No Butt Stuff posted:MHJ is going to drop to the Chargers and I’m going to be livid. Nah it'll be either AZ at latest or someone trading into AZs spot
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Jan 8, 2024 06:05
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Yeah, but lots of teams needing a QB, in a talented QB class, with lots of first round grades... Would not surprise me if 1-4 were QBs with AZ trading out.
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Jan 8, 2024 06:09
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Abugadu posted:Yeah, but lots of teams needing a QB, in a talented QB class, with lots of first round grades... Would not surprise me if 1-4 were QBs with AZ trading out. I'd never stop laughing
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Jan 8, 2024 06:10
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Nah it'll be either AZ at latest or someone trading into AZs spot I mean Chargers are in a good place to trade into the Cards spot, and then the Cards can trade further down for more value if they want.
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Jan 8, 2024 06:13
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Gully Foyle posted:I mean Chargers are in a good place to trade into the Cards spot, and then the Cards can trade further down for more value if they want. i mean in a WR class this loaded it'd be insane to let the Cards bamboozle you into trading up for one.
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Jan 8, 2024 06:22
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Abugadu posted:Yeah, but lots of teams needing a QB, in a talented QB class, with lots of first round grades... Would not surprise me if 1-4 were QBs with AZ trading out.
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Jan 8, 2024 06:28
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LiquidFriend posted:There aren't 3 QBs worth taking in the top 5. Definitely not 4. Worth taking? God no. That will be taken because the many QB-needy teams are going to panic and start bidding against each other? Possibly.
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Jan 8, 2024 07:40
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LiquidFriend posted:There aren't 3 QBs worth taking in the top 5. Definitely not 4. Caleb and Jayden are worth taking in the top 5. That’s right, I’m starting the “Jayden Daniels is better than Drake Maye” train. Daniels can make throws under pressure. Choo choo mother heckers!
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Jan 8, 2024 08:40
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Ornery and Hornery posted:Caleb and Jayden are worth taking in the top 5. I know we’ve had our differences but when you’re right you’re right and right now you’re very right.
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Jan 8, 2024 08:44
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Ornery and Hornery posted:Caleb and Jayden are worth taking in the top 5. YOLOsubmarine posted:I know we’ve had our differences but when you’re right you’re right and right now you’re very right. Add me to this train
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Jan 8, 2024 08:58
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A lot changes before the draft but it wouldn't shock me to see New England bring in someone to work with Mac or Zappe and going MHJ, but I don't think there's anyway he goes past Arizona.
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Jan 8, 2024 09:41
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Abugadu posted:Worth taking? God no.
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Jan 8, 2024 11:36
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BlindSite posted:A lot changes before the draft but it wouldn't shock me to see New England bring in someone to work with Mac or Zappe and going MHJ, but I don't think there's anyway he goes past Arizona. I would be hugely shocked. Mac Jones and Zappe were both absolute disasters this year. Mac Jones was 31st in passer rating, and Zappe is like 10 points below that. Combined on the season they would have tied for the most interceptions for any QB, with Sam Howell. You could say Fields was in the same place last year - same number of games started, similar yards and INT totals (though his passer rating was 8 points higher), but he also had over 1100 yards on the ground.
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Jan 8, 2024 15:17
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Ornery and Hornery posted:Caleb and Jayden are worth taking in the top 5. Let's go further. Jayden QB1!
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Jan 8, 2024 15:26
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Ornery and Hornery posted:Caleb and Jayden are worth taking in the top 5. My draft evaluation currently consists of: Jayden and Williams will get killed because NFL refs won't penalize players for hitting black QBs late That being said, Jayden absolutely torched Bama so he's probably good until he gets hurt (which is how Bama won) Drake maye is a white guy at UNC, I already had a Mitch trubisky at home Guess that leaves Penix
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Jan 8, 2024 15:57
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BlindSite posted:A lot changes before the draft but it wouldn't shock me to see New England bring in someone to work with Mac or Zappe and going MHJ, but I don't think there's anyway he goes past Arizona. Mac will be gone. I'm personally hoping for MHJ, sign a vet and draft a QB day 2 with the other day 2 pick having to be a tackle. Zappe can compete with Brissett or Gardner or whomever and a rookie
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Jan 8, 2024 18:05
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If we're wishcasting wacky moves (since the Pats might actually do something weird for the first time in decades), let's trade down a few and get Odunze, then pair him with Penix later
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Jan 8, 2024 18:33
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I'm starting to lean more into Caleb still being the #1. It's whether or not you want an upgraded version of Jalen Hurts with way better field awareness and arm talent or Lamar Jackson with a bit stronger of an arm and better top end speed maybe. Caleb will do those stupid plays like those INTs against Notre Dame where he tries to get a throw off. A few of them were ducks but he got off some strong throws while getting sacked. He reads plays well, he keeps plays alive that are pretty well covered, and the arm talent is just superb. He can make any throw like Rodgers on the move. Also really good at reading defenses during the RPO and has the ability to pick up quick yards like Hurts. Feels like all his INTs came from hero ball. Also USC's defense was absolute garbage. I know a lot of QBs this year dealt with mediocre defenses but his was completely awful. Constantly playing from behind. They gave up 28 to loving Arizona State. Daniels is insane in the run game. Absolutely destroyed the Gators this year on the ground. Does the RPO more than Caleb I think, I'd need to see stats on it but it feels like he's does it a lot and is really good at it. Faster than everyone else on the field and just outruns people. I think it'll translate into the NFL because he's got great field vision while doing it. His play recognition isn't the greatest. He'll look off open windows a lot and go for a checkdown. His deep ball is fine but it's just a little bit inaccurate and WRs do have to stop on his passes sometimes. It's nit picky but I could see NFL DBs catching up to some of those. He's team is also superb blockers up and down the board. They all bought into the blocking scheme and sprung some big runs for him. I don't think he'll need it but it certainly helps. He's also traditionally sized and less of a stocky ogre like Caleb. I don't think he's overly thin. He can take shots and fight out of sacks even though he's not physically huge. The height also helps him in the run game again because of the top end speed stuff. There's also something to be said that Jayden had Nabers and Thomas Jr. while Caleb had deep ball guys in Rice and Washington. I don't think Caleb's guys were slouches but Jayden's were just way better in every way. It let him have a pretty lethal spread RPO while Lincoln Riley's offense was still in its typical mesh concepts. Brian Kelly's offense, with elite talent, is an insane stats getting offense. I'd still take Jayden first but I'd understand if teams go with Caleb.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:51
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MPJ playing himself out of the first round in this game? He hasnt been good
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Jan 9, 2024 04:37
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mcmagic posted:MPJ playing himself out of the first round in this game? He hasnt been good He’s probably hurt. He came up limping after being sacked earlier in the game. I don’t know that he was a first rounder in the first place though.
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Jan 9, 2024 04:44
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people rating Penix as a first rounder based on one game now casting him deep out of the first round based on watching a second game
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Jan 9, 2024 04:47
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YOLOsubmarine posted:He’s probably hurt. He came up limping after being sacked earlier in the game. to be fair, 'he's hurt' is an absolutely massive knock against him
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Jan 9, 2024 04:48
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Kalli posted:Mac will be gone. I'm personally hoping for MHJ, sign a vet and draft a QB day 2 with the other day 2 pick having to be a tackle. Zappe can compete with Brissett or Gardner or whomever and a rookie I want Maye or MHJ
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Jan 9, 2024 04:48
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PENIX is at the lowest absolutely a late first rounder if healthy. That’s a big if.
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Jan 9, 2024 04:49
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I would be happy with a horse Penix
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Jan 9, 2024 04:52
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