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Looper
Mar 1, 2012

Dr. Cool Aids posted:

short games are still worth money

more, in fact

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hatty
Feb 28, 2011

Pork Pro
Everyone should pay more for shorter uglier games

Tender Bender
Sep 17, 2004

I'm going back and (re)-playing Xenoblade Chronicles 1 on Switch after beating Xenoblade Chronicles 3 + DLC, and there are so many more sidequests than I remember that are all either "Kill X things," "Collect X things," or "Go to this spot and pick up this thing." And I've come to a horrible realization about myself. I think this 2004-World-of-Warcraft style of sidequest design is a plus for me. It's not that I can deal with it, it's that I actively enjoy it. Not sure yet if it's just checklist endorphins or if it's a residual effect of me always chasing that feeling of being 18 and playing WoW for the first time in my college dorm.

symbolic
Nov 2, 2014

Ville Valo posted:

I full cleared / 100%'d Mario RPG and Dragon Quest Monsters 3; what JRPG or similar should I play next? I was a Genesis kid so I missed a lot of the classics, but played some (DQ 1-3, Chrono Trigger) on Game Boy. Haven't really kept up with the genre.

Persona seems like it might not be as "chill" as these; Mario and DQM were extremely low-stakes / low-frustration.

Earthbound is decidedly "chill" albeit with some frustrating segments, howstever everyone should play Earthbound

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!

SirBukkake posted:

Speaking of RPGs, since there’s a few hours left of the Eshop sale, should I pick up SMT Nocturne and the DLC or is the base game well enough as-is? Also, should I get that and/or Dave the Diver?

base game is fine. DLC for Nocturne is to either add Dante back in or for grinding EXP and money. not wortg it imo.

the remaster has an Easy mode which is nice.

but yah Nocturne rules. one of the RPG GOATs

Waffle!
Aug 6, 2004

I Feel Pretty!


Make Beetle Mania a standalone game :colbert:

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon

Ville Valo posted:

I full cleared / 100%'d Mario RPG and Dragon Quest Monsters 3; what JRPG or similar should I play next? I was a Genesis kid so I missed a lot of the classics, but played some (DQ 1-3, Chrono Trigger) on Game Boy. Haven't really kept up with the genre.

Persona seems like it might not be as "chill" as these; Mario and DQM were extremely low-stakes / low-frustration.

Nothing is as chill as Mario RPG, but the Persona games are still fairly chill so long as you don't try to unlock everything in a single playthrough. Which I understand some people find extremely unchill, but the RPG gameplay itself is not as rude as the rest of the SMT games and they all come with modular difficulty or an easy mode if you're frustrated. Hell, I think the Switch SMT games also come with easy mode if you're feeling bold.

also everyone should play Live-A-Live, especially if you already know you love the classics

Ville Valo
Sep 17, 2004

I'm waiting for your call
and I'm ready to take
your six six six
in my heart

Zulily Zoetrope posted:

Nothing is as chill as Mario RPG, but the Persona games are still fairly chill so long as you don't try to unlock everything in a single playthrough. Which I understand some people find extremely unchill, but the RPG gameplay itself is not as rude as the rest of the SMT games and they all come with modular difficulty or an easy mode if you're frustrated. Hell, I think the Switch SMT games also come with easy mode if you're feeling bold.

also everyone should play Live-A-Live, especially if you already know you love the classics

Was looking at Live-A-Live (I'm assuming it's pronounced Livv-Uh-Lye-v), that sounds like the play to me. Thanks!

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008

100YrsofAttitude posted:

I wonder if I wouldn't have been more annoyed given the cost to be honest. I'm glad I had the SNES classic to save me 60 euro, but while fast fights sounds nice, if they're so fast, why have them at all?

Of course that's the big question in any JRPG is the fine line of making the non-boss battles, random or otherwise, fun and not tedious, but also not pointless. SMRPG's ease really means that battles almost don't have to be fought, and from what I understand Paper Mario has continued down that path making all but the boss fights practically superfluous. I loved the battles in FFX, it's probably my favorite turn-based system aside from Octopath Traveller and Bravely Default, but in all those fights gave you some great resources for leveling up in interesting ways.

It's not the game's fault by any means, being an intro the genre limits it in some ways, but from a design perspective it must be really hard to do that well.

I don't think it's just nostalgia. I think that would've helped quite a bit, but it's certainly a cute little game on its own. I'm glad everyone has enjoyed it as much as they did.

I think the battle system is a ton of fun and intuitive. And I love when a game is fast and snappy. Persona 5 for example (especially on PC) also runs really fast and you're in and out of battles so quickly. I ended up fighting most of the mobs on screen just because it was so fun.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




The REAL Goobusters posted:

I think the battle system is a ton of fun and intuitive. And I love when a game is fast and snappy. Persona 5 for example (especially on PC) also runs really fast and you're in and out of battles so quickly. I ended up fighting most of the mobs on screen just because it was so fun.

They do look good.

The question that came to me was a more general observation on game design. It was an issue I had in Octopath 1, where by end-game the random battles ended up being too numerous for that games battle mechanics, which are fun, but also demanded a lot of engagement to make them work. The whole thing began to feel a bit tedious at that point, however, the battle system is genuinely great, but clearly it works best in some scenarios.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon
I think that's kind of an intractable issue with RPGs in general. Sometimes I am having a blast with the game system and want to fight everything I see, and sometimes I've had enough and want to just skip everything between me and the next setpiece, and my patience can very rapidly shift from the former to the latter. And obviously my personal threshold won't be the same as every other player's, so even if a game were somehow tailored to my exact preferences, someone else would hate it.

One thing I greatly appreciate about all the remakes and rereleases of older RPGs is the various options to deal with that. Like, changing the difficulty is one thing, but all the Final Fantasy games let you turn off random encounters with the push of a button, and other games have things like letting you set how much experience you gain from battle, or even an option to disable game overs if you just want to get past that one rear end in a top hat boss. That's the solution if you ask me.

Tender Bender
Sep 17, 2004

100YrsofAttitude posted:

They do look good.

The question that came to me was a more general observation on game design. It was an issue I had in Octopath 1, where by end-game the random battles ended up being too numerous for that games battle mechanics, which are fun, but also demanded a lot of engagement to make them work. The whole thing began to feel a bit tedious at that point, however, the battle system is genuinely great, but clearly it works best in some scenarios.

I genuinely believe that many RPGs would benefit from removing all random encounters. Even something like the Witcher 3, for example, I think would be a much stronger game if the only fights were specific obstacles, quest objectives, bosses, etc. I don't feel that game benefits at all from wading through hordes of respawning drowners and ghouls in between every village. I'll get a quest to find someone's daughter who wandered down by the lake, and it's like Lady, I don't know how your daughter got to the loving lake to begin with, I had to kill like 25 ghouls just on the path there.

otter
Jul 23, 2007

Ask me about my XCOM and controller collection

word.

symbolic posted:

everyone should play Earthbound

truest sentence fragment

Levitate
Sep 30, 2005

randy newman voice

YOU'VE GOT A LAFRENIÈRE IN ME
I have and bounced off of it

Should try again though

SirBukkake
Aug 24, 2006
Idk some black dude

Levitate posted:

I have and bounced off of it

Should try again though

It’s a common perspective that JRPGs falter towards the back half of a game (last page is evident of this). Personally, Earthbound is the only game I’ve played that kept ramping up all way to the end credits.

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!
Oven Wrangler
that's a common issue with most games, not just jrpgs

e: everyone play earthbound

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser


SirBukkake posted:

It’s a common perspective that JRPGs falter towards the back half of a game (last page is evident of this). Personally, Earthbound is the only game I’ve played that kept ramping up all way to the end credits.

Stonehenge and then the return to Onett are kind of a slog

WHY BONER NOW
Mar 6, 2016

Pillbug
Speaking of RPGs, I've been playing through Final Fantasy Legend on the Collection of Saga on Switch. I played this game over and over and over as a kid.

It was originally released in NA in 1990. Knowing that...god drat, did I still underestimate how primitive it is. Clunky menus, a painful translation, every place is a goddamn maze, unclear objectives, and way, way too many random enemy encounters. Not to mention vague/unexplained game mechanics. I knew this game inside and out as a kid, but I also underestimated just how much I'd forgotten, making this an especially painful playthrough.

There's very little QOL additions to the collection...you can press L to go double speed, which is nice but also causes you to overshoot when you're walking around, meaning you take extra steps to correct, meaning more loving random encounters. There's also some kind of quicksave feature you can't access manually so you have to trust the game to save at a good point. Fortunately you can still save anywhere, just like in the original.

I'm at the final tower section so I'll power through, but it's an odd feeling knowing how much I loved this game as a kid (first time I killed God in an RPG) yet this will absolutely be the last time in my life I ever play it.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Zulily Zoetrope posted:

One thing I greatly appreciate about all the remakes and rereleases of older RPGs is the various options to deal with that. Like, changing the difficulty is one thing, but all the Final Fantasy games let you turn off random encounters with the push of a button, and other games have things like letting you set how much experience you gain from battle, or even an option to disable game overs if you just want to get past that one rear end in a top hat boss. That's the solution if you ask me.

Those options are the best and allowing the player to personally control it is always really good.

Tender Bender posted:

I genuinely believe that many RPGs would benefit from removing all random encounters. Even something like the Witcher 3, for example, I think would be a much stronger game if the only fights were specific obstacles, quest objectives, bosses, etc. I don't feel that game benefits at all from wading through hordes of respawning drowners and ghouls in between every village. I'll get a quest to find someone's daughter who wandered down by the lake, and it's like Lady, I don't know how your daughter got to the loving lake to begin with, I had to kill like 25 ghouls just on the path there.

Like just a series of set-pieces between plot beats. I get it. It's a different genre, but it's something I enjoy about tactics games, every fight feels meaningful.

I appreciate RPG's that let you breeze through easier areas, like Earthbound which had enemies just run from you at one point.

abraham linksys
Sep 6, 2010

:darksouls:
im almost done with super mario rpg and i have found it mostly charming and fun but this bowsers keep area loving sucks and this six room challenge bit makes me want to die

i cant platform in this game or do this stupid loving quiz im trapped!!

otter
Jul 23, 2007

Ask me about my XCOM and controller collection

word.

abraham linksys posted:

im almost done with super mario rpg and i have found it mostly charming and fun but this bowsers keep area loving sucks and this six room challenge bit makes me want to die

i cant platform in this game or do this stupid loving quiz im trapped!!

ive always found platforming at the weird angles really hard. It took me like 10 tries to do the trivia quiz thing. I spent the better part of a night working on that section.

Agrias120
Jun 27, 2002

I will burn my dread.

Ville Valo posted:

Was looking at Live-A-Live (I'm assuming it's pronounced Livv-Uh-Lye-v), that sounds like the play to me. Thanks!

Live A Live is amazing. I played it for the first time last year and it’s greater than the sum of its parts while also being way ahead of its time. The highs are high and the lows don’t stick around long.

An Actual Princess
Dec 23, 2006

Ville Valo posted:

I full cleared / 100%'d Mario RPG and Dragon Quest Monsters 3; what JRPG or similar should I play next? I was a Genesis kid so I missed a lot of the classics, but played some (DQ 1-3, Chrono Trigger) on Game Boy. Haven't really kept up with the genre.

Persona seems like it might not be as "chill" as these; Mario and DQM were extremely low-stakes / low-frustration.

you should play every final fantasy available on the switch (which is most of them) and report back

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010

by sebmojo
I was trying to hold out but the gyro in my left joycon is unreliable and I do love me some Fitness Boxing and Ring Fit so I plopped down $80 for a new set. Honestly it probably would have been smarter to just buy an OLED. You’re welcome if the Switch 2 gets announced during the February direct.

Dr. Cool Aids
Jul 6, 2009

American McGay posted:

I was trying to hold out but the gyro in my left joycon is unreliable and I do love me some Fitness Boxing and Ring Fit so I plopped down $80 for a new set. Honestly it probably would have been smarter to just buy an OLED. You’re welcome if the Switch 2 gets announced during the February direct.

they still repair em for free I think, though obvs that would be a longer wait

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010

by sebmojo
They’re launch day and pretty beat up. I know they don’t actually repair yours and just send you fresh ones but it wasn’t really worth the hassle.

otter
Jul 23, 2007

Ask me about my XCOM and controller collection

word.

American McGay posted:

I was trying to hold out but the gyro in my left joycon is unreliable and I do love me some Fitness Boxing and Ring Fit so I plopped down $80 for a new set. Honestly it probably would have been smarter to just buy an OLED. You’re welcome if the Switch 2 gets announced during the February direct.

Switch 2 needs hall effect sticks. This is the conclusion I have drawn after pokemoning with the nitro deck.
Also, I really want to try Fist of the North Star Fitness Boxing. Ken be like, "Your rotator cuff is already dead"

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007

I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

:canada:

otter posted:

Switch 2 needs hall effect sticks.

Apple will increase the base amount of ram in their computers before that happens

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!
Oven Wrangler

American McGay posted:

I was trying to hold out but the gyro in my left joycon is unreliable and I do love me some Fitness Boxing and Ring Fit so I plopped down $80 for a new set. Honestly it probably would have been smarter to just buy an OLED. You’re welcome if the Switch 2 gets announced during the February direct.

drat I would have sold you a pair for $50

WHY BONER NOW
Mar 6, 2016

Pillbug
When I got my white OLED I kept my original switch and used the old joycons on the OLED. But I don't use joycons in general, unless I'm playing handheld, and then, I favor games that don't use the joysticks.

Finally the joycons are starting to drift, but it's kind of out of nowhere because 99% of my handheld play time is Slay the Spire, which doesn't require joysticks. What manner of bullshit is this

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!
Oven Wrangler

WHY BONER NOW posted:

When I got my white OLED I kept my original switch and used the old joycons on the OLED. But I don't use joycons in general, unless I'm playing handheld, and then, I favor games that don't use the joysticks.

Finally the joycons are starting to drift, but it's kind of out of nowhere because 99% of my handheld play time is Slay the Spire, which doesn't require joysticks. What manner of bullshit is this

Stick replacement is ultra easy to do, I repaired my launch switch ones and swapped them into atomic purple shells about 3 years ago and they're still working perfectly.

Cheesus
Oct 17, 2002

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.
Yam Slacker

abraham linksys posted:

im almost done with super mario rpg and i have found it mostly charming and fun but this bowsers keep area loving sucks and this six room challenge bit makes me want to die
I mean two are just fighting. One of the logic doors (quiz + counting) is super annoying, the other logic/puzzle door not so bad. And you only need three?

At least you can pick your poison. I was more irritated at the Shy Guy game thrown into PMOK.

WHY BONER NOW
Mar 6, 2016

Pillbug

ONE YEAR LATER posted:

Stick replacement is ultra easy to do, I repaired my launch switch ones and swapped them into atomic purple shells about 3 years ago and they're still working perfectly.

What kit did you use?

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters

Zulily Zoetrope posted:

I think that's kind of an intractable issue with RPGs in general. Sometimes I am having a blast with the game system and want to fight everything I see, and sometimes I've had enough and want to just skip everything between me and the next setpiece, and my patience can very rapidly shift from the former to the latter. And obviously my personal threshold won't be the same as every other player's, so even if a game were somehow tailored to my exact preferences, someone else would hate it.

One thing I greatly appreciate about all the remakes and rereleases of older RPGs is the various options to deal with that. Like, changing the difficulty is one thing, but all the Final Fantasy games let you turn off random encounters with the push of a button, and other games have things like letting you set how much experience you gain from battle, or even an option to disable game overs if you just want to get past that one rear end in a top hat boss. That's the solution if you ask me.

This is why I really, really want a Tales of Graces f remaster: the mechanics in that game have you getting badges that have a list of objectives in them - use a certain move x amount of times, do combo moved x amount of times, fight these kinds of enemies, etc - each of which give you little stat increases. It makes me want to run into every fight I can to complete more and more of them, especially since by doing them you often unlock more badges with more things to do. I'd switch around characters to do their badges as well, running into every fight I could.

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!
Oven Wrangler

WHY BONER NOW posted:

What kit did you use?

This one:

https://a.co/d/hbmehuF

there's a step by step instructional video on youtube that was real easy to follow

WHY BONER NOW
Mar 6, 2016

Pillbug
Hmm thanks, I'll give it a try...I hope it really is easy, I'm paranoid

mycot
Oct 23, 2014

"It's okay. There are other Terminators! Just give us this one!"
Hell Gem

Morpheus posted:

This is why I really, really want a Tales of Graces f remaster: the mechanics in that game have you getting badges that have a list of objectives in them - use a certain move x amount of times, do combo moved x amount of times, fight these kinds of enemies, etc - each of which give you little stat increases. It makes me want to run into every fight I can to complete more and more of them, especially since by doing them you often unlock more badges with more things to do. I'd switch around characters to do their badges as well, running into every fight I could.

Sorry, increasingly broken ports of Symphonia is the best we can give you.

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!
Oven Wrangler

WHY BONER NOW posted:

Hmm thanks, I'll give it a try...I hope it really is easy, I'm paranoid

I did a complete shell swap along with the stick replacement and this is the video I followed



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymBbKWzL1vg



If you just wanna swap the sticks and use the same shell it's an even quicker process. Watch it and see if you think it's something you can do

Scuba Trooper
Feb 25, 2006

I fixed sticks and reshelled a Switch Lite—tedious but worth it!

ribbon cables suck tho

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Annath
Jan 11, 2009

Batatouille is a great and funny play on words for a video game creature and I love silly words like these
Clever Betty
Swapping shells on a pair of JoyCons was one of the most arduous electronics tinkering jobs I've ever done, although at the time I did it I had severe carpal tunnel in both hands and couldn't feel my fingers :v:

I want to buy a new MicroSD card - I know Amazon is apparently full of fakes, but are they mostly the weird chinese brands, or am I running a risk even if I buy a Samsung or SanDisk one?

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