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tsob posted:I genuinely don't get why people have such a problem with that retcon of events, honestly. It makes sense as a thing to happen, and it's not like Unicorn is the first UC animation to introduce some kind of retcon regarding the events of the original. All the animated side stories introduce some kind of retcon, and even putting aside the above retcon of Zeon fighting for the independence of all Sides in 0083, 08th MS Team's introduction of GMs in July before the Gundam was even built seems far more egregious frankly, especially since it's had far more wide reaching effects rippling out into other works. Framing Zeta in a post MSG/Tominian world the formation of the Titans is a tragedy, the AEUG is a splinter of the federation working with Zeonic and Federation groups to try and right the course of the Earth Sphere and working with Haman is an unfortunate act of realpolitik that has disastrous consequences. Framing Zeta in a Fukuian world the Titans are a natural consequence of Federation policy, the ROZ is an illegitimate puppet state (implying that Haman's Zeon is somehow more legitimate), and the AEUG is not a Federation splinter but a divorced group that is well meaning but whose goals play only into the devilish machinations of the evil Federation. I don't think Fukui is a hardcore rightist or nationalist, I just think he's a loving idiot who cannot grapple with the nuance and depth that Tomino and his team added to the UC works, and when he tries he ends up falling face first into idiotic positions or concepts. Look how much more interesting and complicated a character like Hathaway is compared to Banana. Bandai asked the man to headline the Gundam cover band but didn't realize that he couldn't even play guitar.
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Jan 6, 2024 23:58
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Kanos posted:Explain how? It was a superweapon designed to kill everyone who opposed Zanscare, much like their previous superweapon designed to kill everyone who opposed Zanscare, the dick and balls cannon. The Angel Halo was explicitly meant to kill all life on Earth in order to cleanse it, aka basically CCA's plan but without the asteroid.
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Jan 7, 2024 00:05
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UC kicks off with the Federation sending like 80% of the Earth's population into space. That sounds incredibly cool and hopeful! And then, intentionally or not, the Federation does not have the last 20% of the population leave Earth. It is not explained why this is the case. ZZ and CCA explicitly show us that the rich and the people with Federation government connections are living it up on Earth, while the poor on Earth suffer. So what are we to take away from this? If you're sympathetic to the Federation, you could say that all of those first 8/10 left willingly. Corruption, unwillingness to move, and inefficiency are the problem. How will the last people leave, or will the Earth's resources be used equitably? The Federation seems to have no vision for this. Amuro believes it will happen through mutual understanding eventually. He is proven wrong by the Canadian TV film production G-Saviour. I think the read that makes more sense is that the Federation did a little bit of ecofascim from UC 0000 to UC 0075 to reduce Earth's population. They've created some Lebensraum for themselves and are hoarding the dwindling natural resources. This doesn't justify the Principality of Zeon's actions in the OYW at all. I said that Zeon had legitimate grievances against the Federation. But perhaps you can see why Contolism might be such an enduringly popular ideology among Spacenoids. Two fascisms don't make a right of course! And Zeon definitely does worse war crimes more frequently. But the Federation has a few too. I just don't think you can reasonably see the Federation as the Good Guys. More like Bad Guys lite. brainwrinkle fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jan 7, 2024 |
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Jan 7, 2024 00:09
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Kill all life on Earth isn't an exclusively Contolist idea. It's also shared by absolute lunatics and sociopaths.
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Jan 7, 2024 00:09
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In this house the Jovian Emperor was a contolist hero, end of story!
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Jan 7, 2024 00:12
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Gaius Marius posted:In this house the Jovian Emperor was a contolist hero, end of story! Well when your ideology is one part "cleansing the Earth" and one part "space colony nationalism" any independent space colony nation that attempts to cleanse the Earth is doing Contolism whether intentional or not. It was sold to Maria and the people as a way to achieve peace through non-violent means (lol).
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Jan 7, 2024 00:31
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brainwrinkle posted:How do you explain the Angel Halo project in Victory Gundam then? Contolism is a popular ideology even 2 generations past Char. That's Zanscare, which is a Jupiter Front Operation, Which ties into how Jupiteri n Gundam is full of insane loving lunatics like Dogatie.
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Jan 7, 2024 01:07
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The ideological aspect of the Angel Halo is extremely post-Contolist, showing how the meaning of Newtypes has shifted in the late Universal Century. The official narrative is that it's a psychic religious propaganda device, designed to convince Earth to surrender through the combined love and compassion of Queen Maria and her followers. The reality is that it's a genocide weapon, though it's stripped of the environmentalist pretensions of previous genocidal Contolists like Char and the Crossbone Vanguard - Fonse and his inner circle simply think that Earth would be easier to colonise if all of its existing inhabitants were dead. They're running off pure cynical, material greed.
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Jan 7, 2024 01:18
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Continuing a running theme of the UC where ideas that might have been well intentioned in a better world become poisoned by assholes. Spacenoid independence turns to genocide Newtypes hope for the future is rendered down to Ace Pilots and weaponry Environmental preservation turns to genocide Actually a lot of it just turns into genocide or mass murder depending on your definition. The UC never encountered a problem where there wasn't at least one person advocating lots of killing as the solution. Not enough salt on the ship? Better go blast a few Zakus while we make a stop to restock.
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Jan 7, 2024 01:21
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Fonse Kagatie's secret plans to re-colonize the empty planet are certainly post-Contolist. The public cover story of Angel Halo is what's important to illustrate common Spacenoid ideology. Zanscare convinces 20k people to board this death trap to achieve world peace with the Earth. The cover story is decidedly more Contolist in that they're trying to reach a reconciliation as an independent power. I think the themes of Gundam stretching (somewhat) consistently throughout UC are pretty fascinating. Minus Unicorn.
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Jan 7, 2024 01:32
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Gaius Marius posted:It fundamentally reframes the events of Zeta, ZZ and CCA in a way that is quite disgusting. GM's intro date is egregious but doesn't actually change the fundamentals of the story, the Feds won Odessa either with or without GM's for example. With the occupation and it's fallout it implies that the federation was taking out their anger on the Zeon's, that the Titan's were not a fundamental shift towards authoritarianism under guise of preventing Zeonic Revanchism but rather a continuation of Federation policy post war, and that Axis/Haman Khan's faction was not a fringe group of Zabists and Revanchists but rather a legitimate political movement that existed in counter to the rapacious federation. I'm probably not the best person to discuss this with because I not only like Gundam Unicorn, I actually prefer it to Char's Counterattack for reasons I've gone into in depth here before but basically boil down to thinking it actually tries to tackle the death of Zeon as an ideology and faction, where CCA basically has nothing to say on the concept because it never tries in my opinion despite a lot of fans framing it as the conclusion to Zeon. It's just the conclusion to Amuro and Char's story though in my opinion, and an unnecessary one at that, because it has to make them rivals again at the start of the film in order to conclude their story as rivals, when Zeta had a much more interesting take with them as reluctant allies who eventually just move on from their past. I can absolutely agree Tomino is by far the better story teller, and that Banana is mostly kind of boring, but I also still think Unicorn is better than most UC side stories and probably better than at least some of Tomino's output such as ZZ (which yes, he was absolutely heavily involved in as a director) and Victory as examples. That said, I don't think Fukui's inclusion of the Federation as having occupied Side 3 re-frames the events of Zeta, ZZ and CCA primarily because I think the existence of the Titans already implies a desire for revenge on the part of the Federation anyway. I find it hard to imagine how they arose for any other reason and would think that, if anything, the existence of 0083 painting their creation as a conspiratorial power grab is a bigger issue regarding the framing of the Titans within the lore of the setting. Nor would I see it as adding any legitimacy to the Haman, if only because her father and Axis nope'd out of the Earthsphere immediately after the One Year War, so their views on the state of the Earthsphere and the actions of the Federation in the interim are kind of immaterial on the outlook of Haman. I'm also pretty sure the Republic of Zeon were meant to be basically a puppet state all along anyway, independent post war in name only. I've no idea how it affects AEUG though, to comment on that. How does the Federation occupying Side 3 for a few months or maybe even a couple of years (though it certainly comes off more the former) have any bearing on the creation or existence of AEUG? brainwrinkle posted:Amuro believes it will happen through mutual understanding eventually. He is proven wrong by the Canadian TV film production G-Saviour. He's not though, and thinking he is is basically making the same mistake Char did in Char's Counterattack i.e. the Federation hadn't immediately vacated Earth following Zeta and thus they had to be forced; at least partially because of the very real reason that they had gotten into another war immediately after committing to it; though they probably were never going to in reality. Amuro's "eventually" does not have a set time frame, and he was talking about a fundamental change in human nature. Which is not going to change overnight. Or even in a few generations. You could possibly say he was wrong because it still hadn't happened by the time of Turn A Gundam and/or Reconquista in G, but (a) the time frame for both is somewhat ambiguous, especially if you take Tomino's word about G-Reco following Turn A and being a few hundred years after UC and (b) even if you did then both Amuro and Char are wrong, because the entire plot of both rests on the premise that living in space is kind of poo poo and civilizations who do for a significant time frame want to move back to Earth. Which is also a recurring theme in UC villain motivations. None of which is helped by the mention of the colonists in Turn A just leaving the Solar System entirely when they realized how bad things were going to get before the Black History, and then being implied to create the Turn X.
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Jan 7, 2024 02:53
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tsob posted:He's not though, and thinking he is is basically making the same mistake Char did in Char's Counterattack i.e. the Federation hadn't immediately vacated Earth following Zeta and thus they had to be forced; at least partially because of the very real reason that they had gotten into another war immediately after committing to it; though they probably were never going to in reality. Amuro's "eventually" does not have a set time frame, and he was talking about a fundamental change in human nature. Which is not going to change overnight. Or even in a few generations. You could possibly say he was wrong because it still hadn't happened by the time of Turn A Gundam and/or Reconquista in G, but (a) the time frame for both is somewhat ambiguous, especially if you take Tomino's word about G-Reco following Turn A and being a few hundred years after UC and (b) even if you did then both Amuro and Char are wrong, because the entire plot of both rests on the premise that living in space is kind of poo poo and civilizations who do for a significant time frame want to move back to Earth. Which is also a recurring theme in UC villain motivations. I do think the fact that people are living on Earth means that the aims of Contolism have failed by the time of Turn A and G Reco. Everyone in those settings has a completely different set of ideologies. Contolism seems to be entirely forgotten. So maybe Amuro is partially correct? People have reached an understanding by not caring about that particular conflict anymore. Of course there's still conflicts regarding who is entitled to live on the Earth like the Moonrace settlers and Reconguista, but those have much more hopeful framings. Those conflicts don't start by eliminating half of all humanity. The theme that living in space is really pretty awful is fascinating since it seems to get expressed with more emphasis over Tomino's works in production order.
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Jan 7, 2024 03:13
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brainwrinkle posted:I do think the fact that people are living on Earth means that the aims of Contolism have failed by the time of Turn A and G Reco. Everyone in those settings has a completely different set of ideologies. Contolism seems to be entirely forgotten. So maybe Amuro is partially correct? People have reached an understanding by not caring about that particular conflict anymore. Of course there's still conflicts regarding who is entitled to live on the Earth like the Moonrace settlers and Reconguista, but those have much more hopeful framings. Those conflicts don't start by eliminating half of all humanity. Is the ideology more important than it's goal? Earth is healed by Turn A. Look at it compared to Victory.
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Jan 7, 2024 03:24
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According to the Dark History, people were on the planet the whole time (if I recall correctly). Narrowly, I'd call it a failure as Deikun's purpose was for everyone to get off and the planet to become a protected nature preserve. The politics of "get everyone off the planet so that everyone is on an equal footing and humanity can progress" is the sticking point. It turns out you could rejuvenate the planet without doing that! The natural restoration does seem to have happened slowly because conflict did not stop until the Earth's civilization was destroyed. I do agree that the aims of rejuvenating the planet are mostly achieved. Assuming that Reconguista comes after Turn A as Tomino states, people directly claim that the Earth's environment is still fragile and requires careful management. brainwrinkle fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jan 7, 2024 |
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Jan 7, 2024 03:43
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The ecological health of the planet is one more reason why I don't like the idea of G-Reco taking place after Turn A, because while it's constantly emphasized that the planet is still recovering in G-Reco, it's clearly fine in Turn A after taking millenia to reach that point going off dialogue; though the time frame varies, with Dianna stating it's been 10,000 years since UC in the TV series and the number being changed to 5,000 years for some reason in the movies. I can understand why Tomino didn't want to constrain the writing and ending of his newest project by making it take place before Turn A, but the actual lore of the show itself doesn't really support the idea. You get things like the ruins of Jaburo being wide open with the remains of suits in there that should have been destroyed by the Moonlight Butterfly during the Black History if G-Reco takes place after Turn A, Cygnus 5 being stated to be continuously occupied for 5,000 years and an entire civilization around Venus despite there being no other space based civilizations in Turn A and the static nature of the Moon and inability for the Moonrace to expand or iterate being one of the primary concerns driving them to want to return to Earth and so on. It's not a clean timeline either way you arrange it, and the existence of a unit with a Moonlight Butterfly in the G-Lucifer is commonly cited as proving G-Reco has to take place after Turn A, but honestly, I just prefer to think of G-Reco and Turn A as alternate paths or endings to UC instead since it at least gets rid of that question.
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Jan 7, 2024 04:56
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Runa posted:Yeah, I legit don't care about Code Fairy one way or another and came out of this discussion less convinced that the game is some insidious great evil and more that brainwrinkle was a giant dumbass
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Jan 7, 2024 05:15
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Endorph posted:people mostly seem really mad that its about girls more than its about zeon tbh yeah this tracks
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Jan 7, 2024 05:20
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brainwrinkle posted:I do agree that the aims of rejuvenating the planet are mostly achieved. Assuming that Reconguista comes after Turn A as Tomino states, people directly claim that the Earth's environment is still fragile and requires careful management. Tomino may say it, but the events of the show say otherwise. Nothing in G-Reco makes sense if Turn A happened recently, while Turn A's events are weird if the UC sites were left as intact as they were in G-Reco rather than having the Dark History in the middle. But going back to Zeon, it's pretty funny to me that Side 3 wound up with the most functional government thanks to various side content. The Prime Minister is generally shown as a half decent person, their unapproved and shady unsanctioned black ops groups try to keep some level of restraint, and the standards of living are high well into the Crossbone era, when the EFF is falling apart.
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Jan 7, 2024 05:21
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Based on the original animated stuff, living in the colonies seems pretty sweet. The ones we see in early content are all idyllic suburban paradises - Side 7 looks really nice in MSG despite being under construction and it looks nicer in Zeta, the bits and pieces of Island Iffish we see in 08th MS Team(aside from, you know, all the people dying) look nice, Side 6 looks nice in 0080, Side 3 looks nice in the depictions we see of it, etc. Basically the only completely poo poo colony we see in MSG/Zeta is Texas, which is explicitly an abandoned project. ZZ and later introduce hellholes like Shangri-la and Palau, and we're told that Sweetwater is a shithole in CCA, but it's hard to tell if the former two were always shitholes or if they were made that way by 15 years of global war and economic collapse. Sweetwater is explicitly the result of that. Kanos fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Jan 7, 2024 |
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Jan 7, 2024 07:37
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Gaius Marius posted:It fundamentally reframes the events of Zeta, ZZ and CCA in a way that is quite disgusting. GM's intro date is egregious but doesn't actually change the fundamentals of the story, the Feds won Odessa either with or without GM's for example. With the occupation and it's fallout it implies that the federation was taking out their anger on the Zeon's, that the Titan's were not a fundamental shift towards authoritarianism under guise of preventing Zeonic Revanchism but rather a continuation of Federation policy post war, and that Axis/Haman Khan's faction was not a fringe group of Zabists and Revanchists but rather a legitimate political movement that existed in counter to the rapacious federation. I mean, Tomino seems to also think the Federation trends towards making the Titans by nature given Hathaway, and the fact that Londo Bell are basically just the Titans but run by less lovely people, and the way ZZ ends. I don't disagree that Fukui is much a worse writer and that Tomino's position is more nuanced than "the Federation will always create the Titans if given the chance," but I do think that that read is pretty easy to understand even if you only watched Tomino's work.
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Jan 7, 2024 08:08
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I suspect Tomino just turned into an old fart and a super adult and forgot the dream of space. Most of the problems with living on space colonies seem to involve factors not inherent to space colonies, except in so far that living on space colonies means that some things aren't a problem (difficult to get a land invasion when your land ends at the end of the cylinder and there is, at minimum, hundreds of kilometers of vacuum between you and the next habitable space) and some things are (it is possible for the air to leave through a hole in the floor). The big problem is more that the UC just can't loving end because the plastic must flow, and it isn't a semi-open-ended thing like Star Wars or Star Trek.
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Jan 7, 2024 08:20
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I do like how Jupiter's bullshit is never about Contolism or Zeon Again. Jupiter's bullshit is even dumber and more petty, and can be boiled down to "The people who live on Jupiter that life around Jupiter is Hard, and want to kill everyone living in the Earht Sphere, Earth and colonies, for this"
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Jan 7, 2024 08:43
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Fivemarks posted:I do like how Jupiter's bullshit is never about Contolism or Zeon Again. Jupiter's bullshit is even dumber and more petty, and can be boiled down to "The people who live on Jupiter that life around Jupiter is Hard, and want to kill everyone living in the Earht Sphere, Earth and colonies, for this"
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Jan 7, 2024 08:47
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In his later work tomino cares less about being consistent with prior presentation of tech or whatever than messaging to kids that earth's problems need to actually be confronted rather than put off with tech fantasies
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Jan 7, 2024 09:09
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"space elevators are loving bullshit" -tomino
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Jan 7, 2024 09:09
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I think my specific least favorite thing about Destiny is how characters will like, just get dumber the instant they talk to someone else depending on who they're talking to. Someone can be absolutely resolute in what they're doing and confident in their decision and the instant anyone starts shouting back it's just "Shinn..." or "But!", "However..." over and over again while the other person berates them for like thirty seconds then runs away. I tried keeping a running tally of how many stand alone "Shinn..." and "Shinn!" Athrun said in one episode but gave up at 3/4 when I realized I'd already missed a few.
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Jan 7, 2024 09:24
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Motto posted:In his later work tomino cares less about being consistent with prior presentation of tech or whatever than messaging to kids that earth's problems need to actually be confronted rather than put off with tech fantasies
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Jan 7, 2024 09:56
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Fivemarks posted:I do like how Jupiter's bullshit is never about Contolism or Zeon Again. Jupiter's bullshit is even dumber and more petty, and can be boiled down to "The people who live on Jupiter that life around Jupiter is Hard, and want to kill everyone living in the Earht Sphere, Earth and colonies, for this" Meanwhile, Side 3's got most of the same default difficulties and is like "No, living on Jupiter could be pretty easy. You just suck at it." Seriously, it's weird how late UC Gundam has everyone in space talking about how impossible living in space is, and how it sucks. Meanwhile, the various Zeons and Side 3s just go "Earth is where they have bugs. We do not want any part of it."
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Jan 7, 2024 10:57
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Nuebot posted:I think my specific least favorite thing about Destiny is how characters will like, just get dumber the instant they talk to someone else depending on who they're talking to. Someone can be absolutely resolute in what they're doing and confident in their decision and the instant anyone starts shouting back it's just "Shinn..." or "But!", "However..." over and over again while the other person berates them for like thirty seconds then runs away. I tried keeping a running tally of how many stand alone "Shinn..." and "Shinn!" Athrun said in one episode but gave up at 3/4 when I realized I'd already missed a few. Athrun in Destiny is a wishy-washy dork who has overcooked noodles in place of a spinal column and consistently fails to articulate a coherent opinion of his own for the almost the entire series until he just gives up and rejoins the Archangel so he can just parrot Kira's opinion again. The closest thing he ever gets to making his own argument is when he tells Kira to gently caress off because he's making things worse and then Kira dismantles Athrun's mobile suit and then Athrun never holds that opinion again despite the fact that Kira didn't actually talk him out of it.
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Jan 7, 2024 12:38
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Motto posted:In his later work tomino cares less about being consistent with prior presentation of tech or whatever than messaging to kids that earth's problems need to actually be confronted rather than put off with tech fantasies Isn't Contolism just putting off the problem with tech fantasy, though? You aren't trying to fix earth's problems, you're forcing everyone to live in space, rather than doing stuff like the ocean garbage cleanup, and just assuming that the earth will fix itself- like a Broken Window will just fix itself. chiasaur11 posted:Meanwhile, Side 3's got most of the same default difficulties and is like "No, living on Jupiter could be pretty easy. You just suck at it." I think it may have to do with a difference in mindset and cultural values. When I see and hear "Living in Space will bring new difficulties and challenges," I don't go "Okay so we shouldn't do that." I start hearing JFK's New Frontier Speech and get filled with the Pioneer Spirit. Like, yes, Living in Space will be difficult, but its because its difficult that its worth doing. Fivemarks fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jan 7, 2024 |
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Jan 7, 2024 17:21
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There's a little bit of the "living in space is hard" thing in Witch from Mercury, but it offers a solution: let's become cool cyborgs. Which is presented in an entirely positive way for once, the true and noble purpose of technology, as opposed to using it to build killing machines.
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Jan 7, 2024 17:32
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You can't beat F91's villain motivation of "I am extremely divorced"
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Jan 7, 2024 18:46
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Begemot posted:There's a little bit of the "living in space is hard" thing in Witch from Mercury, but it offers a solution: let's become cool cyborgs. Which is presented in an entirely positive way for once, the true and noble purpose of technology, as opposed to using it to build killing machines. It's an extremely little bit. Despite a fair portion of the cast being space people who come from space and have been living in space for their entire lives, almost nobody in the show actually demonstrates any health issues from extended space living, which disappointed me because the "transhumanism as a solution to the practical problems of living in space" is a neat angle that Gundam usually handwaves because Gundam's transhumanism is typically more about evolution and spiritual awakening rather than overcoming physical issues.
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Jan 7, 2024 19:01
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Fivemarks posted:Isn't Contolism just putting off the problem with tech fantasy, though? You aren't trying to fix earth's problems, you're forcing everyone to live in space, rather than doing stuff like the ocean garbage cleanup, and just assuming that the earth will fix itself- like a Broken Window will just fix itself. The New Frontier speech didn't just advocate for rising up to meet a new frontier because it'd be difficult, but because it was the moral thing to do and there were new opportunities in that frontier. Doing something just because it's hard is kind of silly; it's only of merit if that difficulty reaps greater benefit than not doing so. Which living in space would do, but Jupiter, the Moonrace etc. became overwhelmed by the problems and were only really just staving them off without any ability to create new technologies that'd resolve some of those problems and allow them to enjoy the benefits etc. Which is somewhat reflective of Tomino, who seems to be of the opinion that we should heal ourselves and our planet before worrying about space. That aside, a glass window is not self-repairing; a planetary eco-system is, so the two don't really make for a good comparison. Maybe we could destroy Earth's ecology so thoroughly that there is no life at all left to grow and create new paradigms in future, but I doubt it. So long as there is some life left though, even at the microscopic level, then it'll eventually adapt to whatever the conditions are and flourish again. Begemot posted:There's a little bit of the "living in space is hard" thing in Witch from Mercury, but it offers a solution: let's become cool cyborgs. Which is presented in an entirely positive way for once, the true and noble purpose of technology, as opposed to using it to build killing machines. I would debate that, because while becoming a cool cyborg is presented as a solution to the harshness of life in space during the prologue, it really has no focus in the actual show and the vast, vast majority of characters live perfectly fine lives without any trouble even with no technological enhancement. Granted, I didn't finish the show, dropping out around episode 15 or 16 when it became clear the show wasn't interested in the things I was and probably intended to do things I wasn't interested in either to boot (at whatever point MomChar tells Suletta to leave for her own good after taking the Aerial from her), but I doubt it suddenly became a focus again 2/3rds of the way through going off the chatter I've seen in various places about the rest of the show. The harshness is, at best, the rigors of travelling space for extended periods and establishing new colonies; once a colony is established, normal humans are perfectly fine ala any other Gundam show. And even then, there were at least some baselines humans in the research center during the prologue, and on Mercury, which was a much more difficult place to live going off the novelette about Aerial and Suletta's life there. I may just be bitter though, because the focus on cyborgization as a solution to life in space in the prologue was one of the things I liked and was really hoping would be expanded in the show.
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Jan 7, 2024 19:17
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Kanos posted:It's an extremely little bit. Despite a fair portion of the cast being space people who come from space and have been living in space for their entire lives, almost nobody in the show actually demonstrates any health issues from extended space living, which disappointed me because the "transhumanism as a solution to the practical problems of living in space" is a neat angle that Gundam usually handwaves because Gundam's transhumanism is typically more about evolution and spiritual awakening rather than overcoming physical issues. that's because the cast is rich kids + compradors. of the three "working-class" space denizens we see: one is chromed up to heck (prospera), the second died in childhood and is a ghost in the shell, and the third is suletta.
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Jan 7, 2024 19:24
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Stairmaster posted:that's because the cast is rich kids + compradors. of the three "working-class" space denizens we see: one is chromed up to heck (prospera), the second died in childhood and is a ghost in the shell, and the third is suletta. The entirety of Earth House is basically working class, and there on scholarships or sponsorships; even if you want to excuse them as gophers for the rich kids (and most of them aren't), they're still not rich themselves and still haven't been given any kind of special treatment in order to live in space. They just can tsob fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jan 7, 2024 |
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Jan 7, 2024 19:28
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Stairmaster posted:that's because the cast is rich kids + compradors. of the three "working-class" space denizens we see: one is chromed up to heck (prospera), the second died in childhood and is a ghost in the shell, and the third is suletta. Being rich shouldn't completely stop you from suffering from the ills of space that the GUND format would be meant to solve. Organ/tissue/muscle degeneration from microgravity and the effects of stellar radiation on the human body and the interesting array of cancers that can cause would be fundamental aspects of living in space long term, at least for people who had to leave the heavily shielded colony with pseudo-gravity on a regular basis to travel around and work. Plus there's the thematic clash there - if it's so trivial for rich people to stave off the ill effects of living in space, there's not really any reason for people to be interested in replacing their bits and bobs with cybernetics, because you obviously don't need the cybernetics to live a full life in space because there's a ton of people who are doing it right now. Prospera is barely chromed and the chrome she has isn't necessarily related to space stuff. She has a replacement arm that she had several decades ago and as far as I remember we're never told how and why she has it - it could have been space issues or she could have had a forklift accident or something. Her same-age husband didn't have any visible cybernetics. Plus, even with the tremendous gap in time between the prologue and the main series she still just has the one major bionic instead of having more parts replaced, despite spending large swathes of that time living in one of the shittiest habitable places in the solar system. Kanos fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jan 7, 2024 |
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Jan 7, 2024 20:25
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Stairmaster posted:that's because the cast is rich kids + compradors. of the three "working-class" space denizens we see: one is chromed up to heck (prospera), the second died in childhood and is a ghost in the shell, and the third is suletta. I suspect the 'look how hard it is living in space' is a rhetorical pose, although there would be genuine difficulties; there would probably be a few things that would be difficult or more difficult to stand up without access to Earth. For instance you could get tree seedlings and poo poo from Earth trivially; swiping topsoil samples and seedlings and ocean bacteria water is going to be negligible, like drawing a tiny drop of blood from a human body. There would be the question of Access to Resources, but a lot of fiction treats "RESOURCES" as a big block of Thing which you either have or you don't, and Jovians would be able to move an asteroid around for mining purposes just as readily as the Earth Sphere people could. I had remembered something like the Jovian colonies taxing residents for air, which was explicitly something that Earth Sphere space colonies did not do. Witch from Mercury does not present the same kind of space colonization environment (the Fronts seem to be anchored in stony asteroids with large centrifugal areas for pseudo-gravity) but we don't get a lot of deep inspection of that. It does seem like a more rickety way to do things, but it would also probably be far more defensible than open-type colony cylinders in terms of "one guy with a ten-shot beam gun could evacuate most of the air inside the colony easily."
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Jan 7, 2024 20:29
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Presumably there's poor working class spacians too besides the drone miners at Mercury. Not everyone in space can afford the rich corpo rat lifestyle and not every company mobile suit pilot is a corporate scion who went to Asticassia. They'd be the ones who I could see needing prosthetics, like Olcott has. Besides Olcott and the Vanadis survivors the only other spacians seen post-prologue who aren't rich kids are presumably the Elan body doubles, and that depends on of the show intended for them to be Spacian orphans or not, since it doesn't confirm where they came from, just that they took Peil's assignment.
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Jan 7, 2024 20:31
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| # ? May 27, 2024 17:47 |
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g-witch is sort of at odds with itself because the main character is a poor spacian from a very disadvantaged community and this is never really made relevant to the class struggles once. not even in the context of chuchu commenting on the difference between miorine and suletta. then again g-witch is about as interested in classism as geass was in racism.
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Jan 7, 2024 20:34
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