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Hyrax Attack! posted:I really noticed bad Simpsons creeping in with Lisa the Skeptic, when the angel is found all the townsfolk instantly materialized for one liners including ugh Sideshow Mel. And later they form an angry mob & that’s needed every episode (although to be fair it did give us the robot feeling pain & Moe hoping medical science will cure him.) Yeah, that was one of the first episodes I remember watching and thinking "something's off here".
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Jan 7, 2024 22:33
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DaveWoo posted:Yeah, that was one of the first episodes I remember watching and thinking "something's off here". A fair few of the late classic-era Simpsons episodes have that slight off-ness at times, but it's often held off by the sheer strength and quality of the jokes. The Principal and Pauper is probably the episode where the strength of the jokes (and there are plenty of solid gags in it) really couldn't hold off the encroaching shitness, IMO. Or at least the one where people sat up and went "just wait a goddamn minute here."
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Jan 7, 2024 22:47
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I think the insane level they went to in order to maintain the status quo, and how skinner instantly became a bad boy just because old skinner was back, is what raised people's hackles about that epsiode. Like they could have just called him armand from now on. It's not like you give somebody else a job because htey impersonated someone else. Armand was still the principal and he was still good at his job. It didn't really make sense conceptually, and its like they gave up on it themselves and were like, alright let's never speak of this again. It's like they knew it was dumb when they were writing it.
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Jan 7, 2024 23:03
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Cosmik Debris posted:I think the insane level they went to in order to maintain the status quo, and how skinner instantly became a bad boy just because old skinner was back, is what raised people's hackles about that epsiode. The whole joke at the end of the episode was that everything would go back to normal because Springfield must always bounce back into shape at the end of 22 minutes under penalty of torture
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Jan 7, 2024 23:07
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As someone who didn't watch the golden age of the Simpsons as it aired that episode never felt like a big deal. It was decently funny and poked fun at the sitcom format, I guess the Springfield status quo never felt that sacred to me. The show isn't bad now because of stuff like that, it's because the writing largely stopped being funny, clever, or memorable. The animation also went way downhill, but that feels more incidental.
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Jan 7, 2024 23:19
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Party Boat posted:The whole joke at the end of the episode was that everything would go back to normal because Springfield must always bounce back into shape at the end of 22 minutes yeah. it's a dumb joke.
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Jan 7, 2024 23:21
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The whole thing was intended to be a thought experiment regarding the "reset" nature of sitcoms and not intended to be canon. "Canon" hardly matters on The Simpsons anwyay. It wasn't even the first time Skinner's backstory changed. There are signs of decline before the episode. There are still good episodes after the episode. I kind of hate how much emphasis is still placed on it because discussion forum nerds in 1997 were very vocal about it.
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Jan 7, 2024 23:30
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I didn't mind PatP either, "up yours, children!" is an all-timer, obviously.
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Jan 7, 2024 23:31
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I like that episode and the angel one. The angel one actually creeped me out a lot watching it as a kid that was always anxious about the apocalypse. Its design is unsettling too.
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Jan 8, 2024 00:19
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:The whole thing was intended to be a thought experiment regarding the "reset" nature of sitcoms and not intended to be canon. "Canon" hardly matters on The Simpsons anwyay. Except they already did that, way better, in Bart of Darkness, at the end of the episode. Without actually, you know, irrevocably changing who a major character was. Hell they killed Maude in that episode, too. Hell flanders killed his whole family. But there was a clever and funny explanation for it all, because the writing was better. SweetMercifulCrap! posted:It wasn't even the first time Skinner's backstory changed. When did his back story change? They added that he was a vietnam vet but other than that I can't remember him being anything else. Cosmik Debris fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 00:21
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Cosmik Debris posted:When did his back story change? They added that he was a vietnam vet but other than that I can't remember him being anything else. There were some minor tweaks from earlier seasons and details folded into the character like "Vietnam vet," but definitely nothing as drastic as "turns out he wasn't Skinner at all!"
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Jan 8, 2024 00:35
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edogawa rando posted:There were some minor tweaks from earlier seasons and details folded into the character like "Vietnam vet," but definitely nothing as drastic as "turns out he wasn't Skinner at all!" Do they ever mention the Vietnam vet backstory anymore? Guessing he’d have to be in his 70s by now for that to work. Wonder if it’s like the Punisher where any reboots switch him to Afghanistan war or something similar.
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Jan 8, 2024 00:51
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Skinner would probably be a Desert Storm vet by now, and Abe Simpson would be a Vietnam vet.
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Jan 8, 2024 00:53
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eleven extra elephants posted:I didn't mind PatP either, "up yours, children!" is an all-timer, obviously. can I see your copy of Swank, Armin
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Jan 8, 2024 00:55
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PaP isn't a terrible episode, its just that you kinda have to pick a point of no return, for arguments sake. Stuff changes gradually, and the Simpsons gradually got worse over seasons 8 and 9, with PaP being particularly notable for it's unnecessary and unfunny retcon.
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Jan 8, 2024 01:26
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There was some newer episode where Skinner was a fun-having cool dude principle before some pre-Bart bad seed locked him in a pool of worms over summer break, and that gave him trauma and made him what he is now. Which I kinda took as the writers giving up on the Vietnam trauma.Cosmik Debris posted:I always wanted the "cool" kids to like me, so when they were nice to me I was friends with them but then theyd go back to making fun of me the next day. I feel like this isn't really the key dividing line. Like a lot of new Simpsons is bad for not caring about the characters, but classic Simpsons only sometimes cared about it. A lot of the time classic Simpsons did kinda shrug off characters to focus on big surreal gags, it's not like an all the time thing. Sometimes Bart has a kernel of good in him and all the characters care about eachother deep down, but sometimes they just don't, and that's the joke, and it's fine. Simpsons went through a few phases as a show before it went bad, it was constantly changing as a show, but at some point the phases it was going through just went bad. I guess maybe there's like a hard limit to how much you can buck the characters' relationships and still have them matter, and Simpsons just did it way too much at some point and now it needs to rebuild the authenticity of the characters before it can screw them over hard. Or just end as a show, that's an option.
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Jan 8, 2024 01:26
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Reboot the Simpsons. Have the kids be teenagers or something, idk.
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Jan 8, 2024 02:47
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Just get one funny person to write for it
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Jan 8, 2024 02:53
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Where they gonna get them from? Harvard? Where all the woke snowflakes are?
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Jan 8, 2024 03:27
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Outpost22 posted:Reboot the Simpsons. Have the kids be teenagers or something, idk. I’ve been saying this for the past 20 years. Have the characters age normally after skipping 10 years. Or have 10 year time skips each season and wind the show down for good once the adults die off. End the show with the kids as adults or elderly or something. But please just end it.
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Jan 8, 2024 03:30
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I don't think aging them up would change anything that's wrong with the show now
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Jan 8, 2024 04:38
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You Are A Werewolf posted:I’ve been saying this for the past 20 years. Have the characters age normally after skipping 10 years. Keep the same characters but change the names so Bart looks like Homer, Homer looks like Abe, Abe is dead, and so on
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Jan 8, 2024 04:54
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Data Graham posted:We had an angry mob featuring all the heretofore introduced townspeople in The Telltale Head! It's comedy gold! There's a bit of a running gag that Springfield is basically five minutes away from being a nebulously motivated angry mob at the best of times. See the Bobo episode where the mob ends up giving him back and going to sing at the hospital instead. eleven extra elephants posted:I didn't mind PatP either, "up yours, children!" is an all-timer, obviously. Skinner deciding to revert all the way back to being a biker punk while retaining all the same mannerisms is goddamn hilarious.
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Jan 8, 2024 05:21
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"Has angry mob" is such a weird gripe with PatP considering how often they have mobs lol I understand as a viewer why the episode would upset people, but personally I'm with Keeler on it. I was trying to find his quote from the commentary track but I gave up cause I'm lazy, but it's good. Also aging up the Simpsons is kind of dumb, better to just let the show die already.
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Jan 8, 2024 06:26
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Look they should obviously do a gritty live action reboot, cos than hey this thread could keep going for at least one more year!
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Jan 8, 2024 06:33
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The show already uses the kids as older characters when they need to anyway. I'm pretty sure there are at least two episodes where the premise is Bart impregnating someone, and one where he makes out with a high schooler. Aging them up might have worked two decades ago, but it drat sure wouldn't work now
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Jan 8, 2024 06:33
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SeANMcBAY posted:I like that episode and the angel one. ...you know what, it was a really creepy looking skeleton-angel.
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Jan 8, 2024 08:13
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The Moon Monster posted:That's Burns's heir, unless you're talking about Willie (see above). Oh yeah that could be it. It was a great bit anyway. "Come oooonnnn, leave town!" "No." "Come oooooonnn, I'll be your friend!" "No." "Oh you're mean." eleven extra elephants posted:I didn't mind PatP either, "up yours, children!" is an all-timer, obviously. PatP also has Billy and the Cloneasaurus, which is also an all-timer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik0BPKM9WQg Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 08:52
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:PatP also has Billy and the Cloneasaurus, which is also an all-timer. this was from the much earlier episode where skinner got fired
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Jan 8, 2024 09:39
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I remember being kind of weirded out by Lisa the Skeptic, as well as that season 2 (?) episode about stealing cable, but for cultural reasons. In general, American shows are relatable enough from a Western European perspective, but every now and then you get a reminder that they're very different societies in certain ways. To have religion feature so prominently in people's lives that the majority of the population would believe in the literal existence of angels is unthinkable here. Not because we're all frothing r/atheist types, but because it's just not something the average person would ever think about or engage with, and you would get mocked for doing so. So these types of episodes are a bit alienating, but also interesting in an anthropological sort of way.
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Jan 8, 2024 10:07
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The people of Springfield are like 99% complete morons, just absolute idiots.
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Jan 8, 2024 10:08
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Professor Frink isn't. 
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Jan 8, 2024 10:22
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Junk posted:this was from the much earlier episode where skinner got fired I'm sorry, are you saying he's a liar?
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Jan 8, 2024 10:27
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Data Graham posted:Where they gonna get them from? Harvard? Where all the woke snowflakes are? Source them from tik tok, episodes could just be 30 seconds of Bart and Homer strutting around making funny faces at the camera.
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Jan 8, 2024 12:19
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Phlegmish posted:I remember being kind of weirded out by Lisa the Skeptic, as well as that season 2 (?) episode about stealing cable, but for cultural reasons. In general, American shows are relatable enough from a Western European perspective, but every now and then you get a reminder that they're very different societies in certain ways. To have religion feature so prominently in people's lives that the majority of the population would believe in the literal existence of angels is unthinkable here. Not because we're all frothing r/atheist types, but because it's just not something the average person would ever think about or engage with, and you would get mocked for doing so. So these types of episodes are a bit alienating, but also interesting in an anthropological sort of way. Same but for Homer the Heretic. I still don't get why everyone went so hard against Homer because he wanted to sleep in on Sundays. Especially Marge saying 'don't make me choose between you and god'. Homer vs. the 8th Commandment though I read as 'kid gets told about morality and takes it extremely seriously', in the same way Lisa saw how cute lambs are and extrapolated it to becoming vegetarian in later seasons. And then the comedy comes from that clashing with Homer having to deal with the consequences of his kleptomaniac actions.
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Jan 8, 2024 13:12
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I'll admit to being very religious as a kid and also terrified of the Biblical end times (as opposed to just being afraid of the man made apocalypse like a sensible, secular adult) so the angel episode and a few others like that resonated with me in a strange way as a kid. Although even then my family was too lazy to attend church and we stole cable so I think the Simpsons were a little uptight at times.
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Jan 8, 2024 13:19
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FireWorksWell posted:I don't think aging them up would change anything that's wrong with the show now It might make Bart's multiple marriages seem a little less weird, though
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Jan 8, 2024 13:23
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Paingod556 posted:Same but for Homer the Heretic. I still don't get why everyone went so hard against Homer because he wanted to sleep in on Sundays. Especially Marge saying 'don't make me choose between you and god'. It really didn't resonate with anyone I knew who has seen it because the whole "must go to church Sundays" or even "going to church" isn't a thing most people do. Like maybe they'll go for special occasions like weddings or if they're a Christmas at church type, but otherwise it just seems weird, especially to complain about going to a thing every week that everyone clearly hates going to.
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Jan 8, 2024 13:37
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Said someone not in the South. Drive through any medium sized town and every third building is a church I swear to gently caress
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Jan 8, 2024 13:43
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Paingod556 posted:Same but for Homer the Heretic. I still don't get why everyone went so hard against Homer because he wanted to sleep in on Sundays. Especially Marge saying 'don't make me choose between you and god'. Oh yeah, that's another good example. That said, I am self-aware enough to realize that classic Simpsons was supposed to be a parody of a bygone, idealized America, and not necessarily a 1:1 representation of reality. I assume that even in the US most people don't regularly attend church services, especially nowadays. On that note, I always thought it was interesting that the Simpsons are not only practicing Christians, but specifically Protestants. Their canonical denomination is a nonsensical mishmash of actual Protestant denominations, right? I never gave it much thought until South Park and Family Guy came along, where the arguable main characters (Stan and Peter, respectively) and their families (except Lois) are white Catholics, presented mostly without comment, especially in the case of South Park. I would guess that the Simpsons specifically being WASPs slots into that somewhat anachronistic depiction of Springfield as a platonically ideal representation of small-town America.
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Jan 8, 2024 13:46
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