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ZearothK posted:Games should challenge true gamers yes yes yes god yes, I love giving games my honest shot and doing my best, and then I also appreciate being able to tap enter and type in 'it is a good day to die' as fast as I can so I can god mode all over that stinkin' hard level  (invisible inc has the best difficult/game sliders ever, speaking of, and I wish more games copied that so you can fine-tune EVERYTHING)
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Jan 8, 2024 18:49
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Games should be challenging, in ways other than only combat. Like imagine if at the end of every Elden Ring boss, instead of fighting you had to answer a series of short essay questions correctly identifying the themes and characters before you were allowed to progress.
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Jan 8, 2024 18:49
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GreatGreen posted:I dunno, to me, video games are toyboxes full of toys that you should be able to play with however you want. Games have rules and structure and that's what makes them games, not toys.
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Jan 8, 2024 18:50
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exquisite tea posted:Games should be challenging, in ways other than only combat. Like imagine if at the end of every Elden Ring boss, instead of fighting you had to answer a series of short essay questions correctly identifying the themes and characters before you were allowed to progress. That's just the Case of the Golden Idol
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Jan 8, 2024 18:50
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exquisite tea posted:Games should be challenging, in ways other than only combat. Like imagine if at the end of every Elden Ring boss, instead of fighting you had to answer a series of short essay questions correctly identifying the themes and characters before you were allowed to progress. 
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Jan 8, 2024 18:52
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ScootsMcSkirt posted:the funny thing is, i usually see the inverse opinion, where someone is stuck on their first playthrough and complain that the games are too hard, but also they refuse to summon friends, use buffs, shields, ash summons, etc cause they think those arent intended mechanics. They just end up making themselves miserable because they cant bring themselves to engage with all the games' systems I enjoyed all the posts in the elden ring thread complaining about the difficulty of some of the later bosses before dropping that they were voluntarily refusing to use [game mechanic] on their very first playthrough Turns out you get through the game a lot faster and have a lot less frustration if you use the items that make you win instead of lose, but nobody can force their brain spiders to do that
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Jan 8, 2024 18:59
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Speaking of good games, I want to thank whoever recommended Deadeye Deepfake Simulacrum. I played it a bit last year, but now bit into it proper and it really is the good poo poo. It is essentially lo-fi Hotline Miami feat cmd console hacking. There's a charming and discrete plot over its cyberpunk trappings and the presentation owns.  proof that videogames are back Also I laughed at this small detail  You may notice there's an empty spot in the skill folders. It is the stealth skill tree hiding itself.  [
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Jan 8, 2024 19:01
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That game is definitely on my radar. Hoping that it comes out of EA soon enough.
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Jan 8, 2024 19:09
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Elden ring has difficulty options but because they aren’t the standard easy medium hard options people treat them like they don’t exist
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Jan 8, 2024 19:12
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exquisite tea posted:Games should be challenging, in ways other than only combat. Like imagine if at the end of every Elden Ring boss, instead of fighting you had to answer a series of short essay questions correctly identifying the themes and characters before you were allowed to progress. This is basically the Witcher 3
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Jan 8, 2024 19:12
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A test failed by many goons.
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Jan 8, 2024 19:17
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You can just flip your TV upside down to make the games harder.
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Jan 8, 2024 19:18
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I beat most all the bosses in the Souls games “honorably”* because I wanted to, but then Elden ring gave me pokemons and no way in hell am I not summoning some goofy poo poo for everything *you can throw literal poo poo, can’t say no to that
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Jan 8, 2024 19:26
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Owl Inspector posted:I enjoyed all the posts in the elden ring thread complaining about the difficulty of some of the later bosses before dropping that they were voluntarily refusing to use [game mechanic] on their very first playthrough ive seen it several times in that thread and even had someone ask me how i knew that the developer designed the game with ash summons in mind 
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Jan 8, 2024 19:34
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My mimic was way better at the game than me. I should finish Elden Ring some day. I got burned out in the sewers.
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Jan 8, 2024 19:49
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how did they gently caress up on ac valhalla so bad? i liked origin and odyssey so i figured this would be more of the same with vikings but its so bad. it has this giant skill tree for some reason thats almost entirely pointless incremental +2.3 damage type upgrades, the exploration is just finding a hole in some non sensical place that takes you to the interior of a building with the treasure and the combat is enemies who 2 shot you while you do 12 damage to their 5000 hp bar if you dare go somewhere other than the next story mission. the game introduced this raiding mechanic and i thought "cool lets do that again" so i went to the closest "raid" target which is beside the main camp and it had a "suggested power level" of 160 and got my rear end beat by regular soldiers in cloth armor and wood shields.
Kly fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 19:59
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Personally I think these things come down a lot on how clearly separated and well-integrated the kinds of obvious cheats or "easy mode mechanics" are. I don't care at all how people get through their games, but I played through Elden Ring without using summons or spirits because that's how I enjoy those games the most, for me taking on everything on your own is precisely what makes them fun and using help only waters them down. That said I never mentally felt like I was purposefully "gimping myself" to have that more challenging experience since the actual easy mode mechanic equivalent of spirit/phantom summoning felt like just enough of a separate and optional thing that it was very easy to ignore if you didn't want to engage with it, but available if you did. On the other hand (as a purposefully extreme example) if you always simply started the game already with the best gear and spells in your inventory, or you could press square to instantly deal 1000 damage to all enemies at any time, and the limitation would simply be "well you can just not use them", it would feel totally different psychologically even though technically it boils down to the exact same thing. I think it comes down to rather small differences even, like having "Enable Murder Button" toggle available in the main menu vs. simply having it be available for everyone at all times, just any small separator of that kind makes a surprisingly large difference. Overall some sort of clear opt-in/opt-out deal of that kind makes the best of both worlds in my mind, and ER did a good job with it.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:14
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I should be paid for doing challenging things. I pay for games, so they should be piss easy baby pants.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:19
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ZearothK posted:Games should challenge true gamers Literally yes.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:33
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FishMcCool posted:When someone can't beat Super Mario Bros and you tell them that super mushrooms are a difficulty setting. People refusing to using the mushroom at all and requesting that instead the game be as difficult while using mushrooms or not is not really them requesting difficulty settings either. Jack Trades posted:It's not a "difficulty setting" just because the game has more and less effective strategies. idk what to say if you don't view summons or ashes before bosses as elective difficulty options - often with grades of efficiency too since NPC summons/ashes don't go anywhere near as far as bringing in other players. and people love helping others with fights, you aren't just having a better time if the fight was giving you trouble, you're also contributing to someone else having a good time as well! People turning their noses up at the wide array of options players have to engage with difficulty isn't that different to me from the weirdos who make it their thing to claim the only legitimate way to beat a Souls game is Sl1 wretch naked 1h club right after suffering a concussion irl. Like, if the game give options and then the player refuses to make use of them maybe some of this is on the player?  Yes, this applies less to Bloodborne, and practically not at all with Sekiro, the most our-way-or-the-highway game From ever made, but if DS3 followed by Elden Ring are any indication From would like to provide more options, not less, in how players can engage with the game. CharlestheHammer posted:Elden ring has difficulty options but because they aren’t the standard easy medium hard options people treat them like they don’t exist 100% agreed
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Jan 8, 2024 20:36
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Kly posted:how did they gently caress up on ac valhalla so bad? i liked origin and odyssey so i figured this would be more of the same with vikings but its so bad. it has this giant skill tree for some reason thats almost entirely pointless incremental +2.3 damage type upgrades, the exploration is just finding a hole in some non sensical place that takes you to the interior of a building with the treasure and the combat is enemies who 2 shot you while you do 12 damage to their 5000 hp bar if you dare go somewhere other than the next story mission. the game introduced this raiding mechanic and i thought "cool lets do that again" so i went to the closest "raid" target which is beside the main camp and it had a "suggested power level" of 160 and got my rear end beat by regular soldiers in cloth armor and wood shields. Valhalla has a lot of problems and is pretty easily the weakest of the three but I can’t say I recall player power ever being too much of a problem. Are you playing it on a harder difficulty? The RPG trilogy has some uh, ideas about scaling.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:39
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AC Valhalla feels like a game whose creators were deeply embarrassed by the idea of making an RPG but still wanted it to take you 100 hours to beat like an RPG.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:43
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FishMcCool posted:When someone can't beat Super Mario Bros and you tell them that super mushrooms are a difficulty setting.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:47
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Normally I can’t say I agree with people who think open world games have gotten too big for their own good but with Valhalla I don’t have that problem. If life gives you the option to make a 1:2 scale (or whatever it is) game of Britain maybe don’t do it.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:48
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Kly posted:how did they gently caress up on ac valhalla so bad? Orv posted:Valhalla has a lot of problems and is pretty easily the weakest of the three but I can’t say I recall player power ever being too much of a problem. Are you playing it on a harder difficulty? The RPG trilogy has some uh, ideas about scaling. Yea; I don't remember all the specifics of why I got mega bored with Valhalla, but I don't recall thinking the game was hard 
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Jan 8, 2024 20:50
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I played through Elden Ring on release with a hacked character that basically killed everything in one hit. Never completed another soulsish game, that particular kind of difficulty (repeatedly doing the same combat encounters over to mastery) just doesn't gel with me. I knew it was going to be the big game of the year and I like to read game stuff/listen to pods and I wanted to understand the conversation. It was great! I got to see all the pretty sights and was able to appreciate the masterful world building and it easily made my GOTY list. Dunno why they gatekeep their own excellent products.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:59
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I mean not using the mushrooms in Mario would make the game harder so yes if you wanted a challenge run you could not use mushrooms so I don’t get the comparison as it undermines the point your trying to make
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Jan 8, 2024 21:00
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Chadzok posted:I played through Elden Ring on release with a hacked character that basically killed everything in one hit. Never completed another soulsish game, that particular kind of difficulty (repeatedly doing the same combat encounters over to mastery) just doesn't gel with me. I knew it was going to be the big game of the year and I like to read game stuff/listen to pods and I wanted to understand the conversation. It was great! I got to see all the pretty sights and was able to appreciate the masterful world building and it easily made my GOTY list. Dunno why they gatekeep their own excellent products. Because they make the games they want to make and don’t really care that much about internet discourse
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Jan 8, 2024 21:01
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Sab669 posted:Yea; I don't remember all the specifics of why I got mega bored with Valhalla, but I don't recall thinking the game was hard the game clearly has level gated areas, like in the very starter town in norway you cannot do one of the camps because it's like level 200+ like the guy said, it's coralling you into a narrow play pen, until you hit like 120 or so
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Jan 8, 2024 21:05
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Since I'm on a PC if I get frustrated with a game I totally go get a trainer or explore using cheat engine or whatever the poo poo. I'll make my own console lmao
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Jan 8, 2024 21:05
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More like "Guys I refuse to use any powerups in Mario and can't beat the game, this is not a fault of how I engage with the systems it's a sign of excess difficulty." like,  CharlestheHammer posted:I mean not using the mushrooms in Mario would make the game harder so yes if you wanted a challenge run you could not use mushrooms so I don’t get the comparison as it undermines the point your trying to make
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Jan 8, 2024 21:08
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Orv posted:Valhalla has a lot of problems and is pretty easily the weakest of the three but I can’t say I recall player power ever being too much of a problem. Are you playing it on a harder difficulty? The RPG trilogy has some uh, ideas about scaling. im on the default dificulty. its probably less of a problem after you unlocked more of the "+2 to damage" nodes of the skill tree or whatever but making the area directly beside the starting zone 130 levels higher than the player is pretty different than the other two games. i think. i havent played them in a while but im pretty sure i explored the surrounding areas early on without having this problem. if you guys didnt run into this im guessing you probably stuck to the main story areas early on which is normal i guess but i didnt have to in the other two. its also a bummer that they take you out of a cool and somewhat unique environment and plop you into what is possibly the most boring place in the world.
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Jan 8, 2024 21:08
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I think the whole thing is just that a lot of people refuse to play Souls games in a way that doesn't maximize the challenge and then they complain about the games being too difficult. Like if you want to not use summons or consumables and refuse to use a strong build and want to mash your face against a boss over and over until you can beat it blindfolded with perfect parries that's totally cool and fun but if you then also complain that the game is too difficult then lol
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Jan 8, 2024 21:10
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Person who plays an RTS single-player campaign but is stymied by refusing to build anything but workers: I think this is a fault with the game's difficulty, actually.
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Jan 8, 2024 21:11
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Kly posted:im on the default dificulty. its probably less of a problem after you unlocked more of the "+2 to damage" nodes of the skill tree or whatever but making the area directly beside the starting zone 130 levels higher than the player is pretty different than the other two games. i think. i havent played them in a while but im pretty sure i explored the surrounding areas early on without having this problem. You can definitely get into areas way above where you 'should' be pretty quick in both Origins and Odyssey but yeah it is admittedly a little weird to introduce a new mechanic and then immediately tell you to gently caress off for the next one. For what it's worth trying to do stuff under-leveled/scored in those games is almost never worth the absolutely absurd differential in NPC/mob power to yours if they're even a couple points above you, so I just didn't. That's not ideal but it did save me from that experience at least.
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Jan 8, 2024 21:11
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean not using the mushrooms in Mario would make the game harder so yes if you wanted a challenge run you could not use mushrooms so I don’t get the comparison as it undermines the point your trying to make KazigluBey posted:More like "Guys I refuse to use any powerups in Mario and can't beat the game, this is not a fault of how I engage with the systems it's a sign of excess difficulty." Yes, very good points you two. Not using all the intended game mechanics does indeed make a game artificially more difficult compared to the baseline experience of using all of the game's mechanics. I agree. Also it's still not a "setting".
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Jan 8, 2024 21:12
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deep dish peat moss posted:I think the whole thing is just that a lot of people refuse to play Souls games in a way that doesn't maximize the challenge and then they complain about the games being too difficult. The thing is that it's not even entirely their fault they have that idea because 50% of modern Fromsoft conversation is if Bloodhound Step/Summon Ashes/Sorcery/etc are cheating or not or if they're the "intended experience" or whatever
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Jan 8, 2024 21:12
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CharlestheHammer posted:Because they make the games they want to make and don’t really care that much about internet discourse I am always so thankful that goons don't design videogames
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Jan 8, 2024 21:12
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Kly posted:its also a bummer that they take you out of a cool and somewhat unique environment and plop you into what is possibly the most boring place in the world. Valhalla is the only AC game I just walked away from. So incredibly boring.
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Jan 8, 2024 21:12
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Goa Tse-tung posted:the game clearly has level gated areas, like in the very starter town in norway you cannot do one of the camps because it's like level 200+ its like this outside of norway too! theres one region other than the one you start in in england thats a reasonable level. other than that one every area around you is level 90+
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Jan 8, 2024 21:13
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