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A Buffer Gay Dude posted:I dunno this might be one of those wojak bell curve meme situations where you have the insane Bama homers with 69iq on one side saying he’s great, a bunch of weirdo analytics guys with 169iq on the other saying he’s great, and then every normal person in the middle of the distro going “he’s a 5’9” smol bean who played every single college and high school game with a massive talent advantage” The funny part is that every time Bryce has came up around all the Bama fans I work with, they all just sound sheepish and embarrassed about how poorly Nick Saban's tiniest son has worked out Even Mac Jones usually draws out some degree of spirited homer defense/excuses
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Jan 8, 2024 17:48
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IcePhoenix posted:This response made me laugh thank you. His arm isn’t bad, but he really needs to be set to generate drive and he didn’t really have a chance to do that much in Carolina because the line performed poorly. He’s also 5’nothing so he’s going to have to move a lot to finding throwing windows like most other short QBs and that lends itself to him throwing off platform a lot and his throws lose a lot of steam when that happens. Burrow doesn’t have a great arm either but he makes up for it with accuracy and he’s tall enough to actually stand in and make throws in a collapsing pocket so he can get his feet set and generate more drive.
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Jan 8, 2024 18:58
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Intruder posted:hear me out I'm listening
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Jan 8, 2024 19:11
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YOLOsubmarine posted:His arm isn’t bad, but he really needs to be set to generate drive and he didn’t really have a chance to do that much in Carolina because the line performed poorly. He’s also 5’nothing so he’s going to have to move a lot to finding throwing windows like most other short QBs and that lends itself to him throwing off platform a lot and his throws lose a lot of steam when that happens. I get what you're saying, and it's fair, but when I talk about arm strength I mean the entire process that leads to the end result not the strength of his literal arm. If Young can't execute mechanically to generate the same arm strength as someone else with similar raw strength in a game situation then I don't really care what he can do in shorts.
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Jan 8, 2024 19:23
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Intruder posted:hear me out His S2 score is poo poo, won't succeed in the NFL. You need to stop living in the past and get with the new way the NFL works.
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Jan 8, 2024 19:26
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Even BlindSite's admitting that Bryce is a bust - that should tell you how bad the situation has gotten with him.
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Jan 8, 2024 19:42
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FizFashizzle posted:I don’t know if Bryce cares at all. He certainly never played like it, and several times looked like he was realizing he didn’t belong out there. Dude just wants to do game day and dancing with the stars and I’m glad of it. I can't speak for Tua since I don't follow the Dolphins but I get this feeling from Hurts too. The Nick Saban program just turns you into a joyless looking player who only spouts football aphorisms.
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Jan 8, 2024 19:51
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IcePhoenix posted:I get what you're saying, and it's fair, but when I talk about arm strength I mean the entire process that leads to the end result not the strength of his literal arm. If Young can't execute mechanically to generate the same arm strength as someone else with similar raw strength in a game situation then I don't really care what he can do in shorts. You can go back to last year to find my posts about Bryce’s size being a concern and how his game would translate to the NFL, so I fully agree that ultimately it’s not really material how his arm strength grades coming out if he can’t perform on the field. But he did show acceptable arm strength on the field in games in college so it’s not like it was purely hypothetical. But the margins for everything are tighter in the NFL and that makes his physical deficiencies more stark. Sometimes guys “level up” once they get to the league. Watson was dinged for having an average arm but he always had enough arm strength once he got to the NFL. Bryce looks like he’s just hit a wall, but who knows, maybe with less lovely coaching he could turn it around.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:13
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If the Panthers cut Bryce after 6/1, it's 18m dead cap for '24 and 12m dead cap for '25. Given that they're not going to be good next year or the year after next, consider it avoiding sunk cost fallacy and a move they need to make. Unless their goal is to have the #1 pick in '25 as well...
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Jan 8, 2024 20:20
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C. Everett Koop posted:If the Panthers cut Bryce after 6/1, it's 18m dead cap for '24 and 12m dead cap for '25. Given that they're not going to be good next year or the year after next, consider it avoiding sunk cost fallacy and a move they need to make. Even if they don’t play him they’re not going to cut him. He’d get traded or kept on as a backup.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:38
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Even if they don’t play him they’re not going to cut him. He’d get traded or kept on as a backup. Cards cut Rosen. Hard to move on from a guy when he's still on your team. Ask the Jets.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:43
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There is zero reason to cut Bryce young unless you are desperate to get six win with Minishew
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Jan 8, 2024 20:44
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Cards cut Rosen. Hard to move on from a guy when he's still on your team. Ask the Jets. The Cards traded Rosen to Miami and got a decent return for him. They got like a second-rounder and change.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:46
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Cards cut Rosen. Hard to move on from a guy when he's still on your team. Ask the Jets. No, the Cards traded Rosen to the Dolphins for a 2nd round pick. Edit: beaten. But there is always some egotistical "I can fix him" rear end in a top hat that will trade for a high round draft pick QB. It happened with Sam loving Darnold, for chrissakes.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:46
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Woah. How could I forget about that highway robbery.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:47
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*Bryce Young threw the ball 527 times, the fifth-most of any season in team history, but only threw for 2,877 yards, the 18th-most in a season in team history. He's sandwiched between Chris Weinke's 2001 year (15 games total) and Jake Delhomme's 2006 season (where he only played 13 games). *Young completed 315 passes, the fifth-most in a season, but his yards-per-completion of 5.5 only has two real competitors among full-season Panther starters - Kerry Collins in 1997 (5.6) and Chris Weinke in 2001 (5.4) *Young threw for touchdowns on only 2.1% of his passes (11 total passing TDs). Among full-season starters, he's ahead of only Chris Weinke (2001) at 2.0%. *Young's longest completion was for 47 yards. Among full-season starters, he is tied for the lowest longest completion stat with Weinke. *Young was sacked 62 times, tied for the most in team history with Steve Beuerlein (2000). *Young is the only Panthers QB to start 16 games and not throw for over 3,000 yards. If you include 15-game and 14-game starters, he is one of only three (along with Weinke and Rodney Peete).
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Jan 8, 2024 21:51
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FizFashizzle posted:*Bryce Young threw the ball 527 times, the fifth-most of any season in team history, but only threw for 2,877 yards, the 18th-most in a season in team history. He's sandwiched between Chris Weinke's 2001 year (15 games total) and Jake Delhomme's 2006 season (where he only played 13 games). Tbf, those are great numbers for a point guard
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Jan 8, 2024 22:23
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Hes been bad but you never really have a chance when you have a lime that gives up 60+ sacks, no receivers and have a rediculous development path way. Bryce might not have the talent but he was also put in the worst possible situation to succeed and it enrages me the franchise has reached this point of ineptitude.
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Jan 8, 2024 22:47
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Bryce Young is either crap because he's a crap player or crap because he's on the Panthers. If it's the former, he will always be crap. If it's the latter, he will always be crap until the Panthers improve (lol Tepper) or he plays for another team. So the odds are Bryce Young will remain crap.
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Jan 8, 2024 22:52
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Sometimes guys “level up” once they get to the league. What level is brock purdy now?
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Jan 8, 2024 23:24
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Waltzing Along posted:What level is brock purdy now? He’s achieved Goffhood.
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Jan 8, 2024 23:25
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YOLOsubmarine posted:
Gotta get these guys on Jake Browning-tech
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Jan 8, 2024 23:30
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YOLOsubmarine posted:He’s achieved Goffhood. So he's worth a #1 pick now. Not bad.
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Jan 8, 2024 23:33
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Waltzing Along posted:So he's worth a #1 pick now. Not bad. The panthers would sure as hell trade their #1 pick for him, so yea.
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Jan 8, 2024 23:45
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I think at this point the Panthers would take a late first round pick for Young. Maybe even a second round pick.
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Jan 8, 2024 23:51
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Kirios posted:I think at this point the Panthers would take a late first round pick for Young. Maybe even a second round pick. oh my god even a second rounder you agree before you even get off the phone with the other side.
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Jan 8, 2024 23:56
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I for one think they should give a second year to the guy that had the worst team in the league even outside whatever he did on the field
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Jan 9, 2024 00:09
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Doltos posted:I for one think they should give a second year to the guy that had the worst team in the league even outside whatever he did on the field Yeah it’s this. Excited for the Levi’s era. Hopefully we can get a top WR then all the o-line.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:12
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Fans are not rational when it comes to QBs. They would much rather a guy they know is bad rather than a rookie who is bad but could improve.
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Jan 9, 2024 00:52
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Look panthers aren't competing for at least a year from here. Our best case scenario is some kind of decent stretch the last 8 games to finish like 8 and 9 in a weak division IF they hire the right coach IF they hit on their GM hire and IF everyone they draft in the mid rounds ends up with rams level production. You might as well get the best possible pieces in place. Roll with Bryce and either end up with a top 5 pick and take another qb or he is something and well... great. All of this hinges on tepper not getting trigger happy early which is another kettle of fish. But you either tank with him, and move on or he works out. Don't bother with half measures. The 2024 season is already a waste and it will take time to exorcise the current demons.
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Jan 9, 2024 05:07
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BlindSite posted:You might as well get the best possible pieces in place. Roll with Bryce and either end up with a top 5 pick and take another qb or he is something and well... great. Yeah, that's my belief as well. They already blew their load from this year on Bryce. Give a new coach / gm the opportunity to build a team either Bryce can develop on, or stink on so bad you win 3 games and can draft his replacement.
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Jan 9, 2024 05:21
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BlindSite posted:Look panthers aren't competing for at least a year from here. Our best case scenario is some kind of decent stretch the last 8 games to finish like 8 and 9 in a weak division IF they hire the right coach IF they hit on their GM hire and IF everyone they draft in the mid rounds ends up with rams level production. I'd argue '24 and '25 are wastes already. I don't know the salary cap situation but this isn't something you can fix in just one draft class and FA signing unless you hit on literally everyone. Bryce has no trade value, not with the amount of money he's owed for the next three years. He's not worth even a conditional late day three; a team would rather take their own pick there or go with a UDFA and hope they hit a Brady/Purdy diamond in the rough on the cheap then give away actual value for 3 years and $30m of all but guaranteed bust. The Panthers can either throw Bryce out there for two more years of futility, barring some kind of eventual injury, and tank for high picks in the '25-'26 drafts and hope that someone in one of those two classes emerges as a one-season wonder can't miss QB, a la Cam/Burrow. Or they can acknowledge that Bryce isn't going to get better and that having him on the roster is filling a spot that has more value with quite literally anyone else. If Bryce is the backup and the starter, be it Dalton or Cousins or Carson Wentz or Johnny Manziel or Ryan Leaf or whomever, gets hurt and Bryce is back in then you're back to being sunk. Dump Bryce, either trade that conditional Day 3 to Tennessee for Malik Willis or take a 5th/6th year super duper senior that's started 50+ games and see if they can give you something from nothing and is cheap to get out from if/when they fail as well, and try to set the team up to start to rise in '26 and make the playoffs in '28. For some reason I was reminded of the Cam Panthers about to have their first playoff game and the ESPN promos using RTJ as the soundtrack and everyone was hyped for them. Been a long, long time since then, for sure.
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Jan 9, 2024 05:26
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C. Everett Koop posted:The Panthers can either throw Bryce out there for two more years of futility, barring some kind of eventual injury, and tank for high picks in the '25-'26 drafts and hope that someone in one of those two classes emerges as a one-season wonder can't miss QB, a la Cam/Burrow. Or they can acknowledge that Bryce isn't going to get better and that having him on the roster is filling a spot that has more value with quite literally anyone else. If Bryce is the backup and the starter, be it Dalton or Cousins or Carson Wentz or Johnny Manziel or Ryan Leaf or whomever, gets hurt and Bryce is back in then you're back to being sunk. They can either be bad next year with a QB they know is mediocre or be bad next year with the QB that has played one season and at least hypothetically could get better, and who they have to pay whether he’s there or not. There’s no good choice and hoping that Bryce turns it around with a new staff is better than rolling with Dalton and just accepting that the season is a wash.
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Jan 9, 2024 05:31
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Teams aren't going to write Bryce off after a bad rookie season on a dogshit team when he was entering the draft as at worst a top 5 pick
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Jan 9, 2024 05:34
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If Bryce was cut monday he'd be signed by any one of about twenty teams by Tuesday in order to evaluate if he can be a player with a stable coaching staff and improved supporting cast. If only Carolina decided to put around him an improved supporting cast and a stable coaching situation and lose literally nothing but a few games in 2024 - a season they're not going to be relevant in anyway. Even if you said the Dalton line meant double wins for the Panthers they'd be a 4 win team this year and picking 2nd overall. If Tepper wasn't a clown you'd have a coach to put everything possible in place for him to succeed and tell them he's got 17 games if healthy to either succeed or fail and you wouldn't outright say it but the agreement would be if he loving sucked you're moving on immediately after the tank and if not then you're off to the races. There's nothing to be gained for the Panthers by getting rid of him right now. Bryce being dogshit and cutting him at the end of the 2024 season and using a top 3 pick to take another swing is pretty embarrassing. But how much worse does it look if you cut him, or trade him for a 2nd day pick to say... the 49ers or the Raiders or the Eagles or anyone and have him look like an actual Qb the next year in spot duty or after someone goes down hurt. Worst case if you keep him you're the team that wasted 2 firsts and DJ Moore to end up having to draft another QB. Worst case if you don't you're the team that gave up 2 firsts and DJ Moore to draft a starter for another loving team.
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Jan 9, 2024 09:44
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who cares what it looks like? if you think he's cooked you trade him, if you think he's good you keep him. that last paragraph is a hair away from a sunk cost fallacy. his skill is not determined by what we gave up for him and the value of keeping him is not affected by what others will think if we let him go. If someone else wants to make that mistake, let them.
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Jan 9, 2024 09:51
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zimbomonkey posted:who cares what it looks like? if you think he's cooked you trade him, if you think he's good you keep him. that last paragraph is a hair away from a sunk cost fallacy. his skill is not determined by what we gave up for him and the value of keeping him is not affected by what others will think if we let him go. If someone else wants to make that mistake, let them. My point is there's 0 upside to cutting him right now or trading him for a 2nd day pick. There's only upside to keeping him around. If he's poo poo or if he's good we're probably not better than a 4 win team without an absolute miracle at 4 positions, the front office or the coaching staff. Also the way these things look do matter. Do you want to be the team that first round picks refuse to play for? or the one that can't attract a free agent without having to throw out the curve contract wise? Where the only person we can get that will coach the team is a wide receiver coach we poach from obscurity? That's where the franchise is headed at the moment. Another failed front office and coaching staff hire and it's 5 years before we're relevant again. Why would you care if we lose 12 games with Dalton instead of 14 with Bryce? BlindSite fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Jan 9, 2024 |
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Jan 9, 2024 10:06
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BlindSite posted:My point is there's 0 upside to cutting him right now or trading him for a 2nd day pick. The upside is that the pick that you now have from trading a bad player could potentially turn into a good player. That is the upside to all draft picks. quote:There's only upside to keeping him around. This is an insane thought. "Better torpedo my burgeoning NFL career because the team that drafted me cut a bad player." quote:or the one that can't attract a free agent without having to throw out the curve contract wise? quote:Where the only person we can get that will coach the team is a wide receiver coach we poach from obscurity? If there's one thing big name coaches love, it's being told they can't trade away a bad player because the last regime bet the farm on him and lost. quote:That's where the franchise is headed at the moment. Yes, with Bryce as the qb. That is not a coincidence. quote:Why would you care if we lose 12 games with Dalton instead of 14 with Bryce? I... Don't? I just would take any value for what I see as a worthless asset.
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Jan 9, 2024 11:24
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YOLOsubmarine posted:They can either be bad next year with a QB they know is mediocre or be bad next year with the QB that has played one season and at least hypothetically could get better, and who they have to pay whether he’s there or not. There’s no good choice and hoping that Bryce turns it around with a new staff is better than rolling with Dalton and just accepting that the season is a wash. otoh based on what we saw against seattle, how the season turned out and just how bad Bryce was, the Panthers are probably competing for the South if they just started Dalton all season. With the exception of 5 games, the Panthers were in every one. The defense performed very well for Carolina this year, and this was with the offense generating little to no offense in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Hell, the Panthers offense from the second half of last seasons definitely wins the South. Like yeah winning the south i get it, but the point is to get to the post season. Weird poo poo happens in the playoffs. As far as actually moving on from Bryce, obviously Tepper wouldn't allow that unless he does whatever it is that Josh Rosen did. But the next coach has to be able to bring in real competition for him. Bryce was named the starter before he even played a preseason game, and I think we can all agree that was probably not Reich's preference. I think we can also all agree that Bryce definitely needed to sit this year; not sure how you can come to any other conclusion. The next coach has to have the ability to sit his rear end, or let bryce not win a competition in training camp. And that's gonna be how Bryce's career ends. The team will always be just good enough with someone else, or he just won't be good enough in practice, to earn any playing time in a game. Occasionally he'll get in during mop up duty, or an injury spot fill, and maybe he'll even look good enough at times to be a starter, but he'll always fall apart again and always head back to the bench. After three years, the Panthers will decline to pick up his fifth year option. He'll go to a couple of training camps, not get any offers to compete for a starting position, coaches will decide they'd rather use moonshot position spots on players with the right attributes, he'll go work for college gameday and drink from the Alabama legend teat, and that will be the story of Bryce. Meanwhile Stroud will continue his march to perennial top 8 qb, and Tepper will spend his nights screaming about HIPAA noncompliant S2 scores like the ending of Citizen Kane. FizFashizzle fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Jan 9, 2024 |
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Jan 9, 2024 12:14
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I hope the kid learns how to play football but I’ve seen enough disaster level rookie QB seasons to know that they pretty much never do. He’s just too short. Maybe if he juices enough to approximate Kyler’s body type he can function but right now he’s a cautionary tale.
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Jan 9, 2024 12:50
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