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Tree Bucket posted:the better question is what happens if a The door opens and the orcs give you safe-conduct through so you can bring Saruman his pipe-weed shipments without drawing attention at the Gap of Rohan
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Jan 9, 2024 03:14
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https://twitter.com/ralphbakshi/status/1744495179888033949?t=7be0D-IiZvHwJQXxJwup5A&s=19
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Jan 9, 2024 05:58
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Doesn’t someone (Gandalf maybe?) specifically say that Sauron doesn’t use or even permit elvish script? It’s in the context of finding orcs with the S-rune on their shields, which they decide must refer to Saruman for that reason
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Jan 9, 2024 05:59
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Without actually looking at the book to double check, I recall the conversation saying that Sauron doesn't allow his servants to use the name Sauron; he prefers names that aren't sindarin insults
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Jan 9, 2024 07:09
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skasion posted:I was thinking of Robert Howard first and foremost but yeah. Lovecraft’s handful of fantasy stories are pretty good and his scifi sometimes hits the same tone. Leigh Brackett, Fritz Leiber, Clark Ashton Smith. Probably forgetting others. There’s good fantasists today too obviously but some of the older pulp guys aren’t half bad I think it's an indictment of me that I had to Google Robert Howard. Familiar with Conan ofc, but never read it. Probably should. Pretty depressing end to Howard's life, wow.
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Jan 9, 2024 16:05
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SHISHKABOB posted:I think it's an indictment of me that I had to Google Robert Howard. Familiar with Conan ofc, but never read it. Probably should. Pretty depressing end to Howard's life, wow. Yeah, like Lovecraft his only halfway marketable skill was writing fantasy fiction, so like Lovecraft during the Great Depression he more or less died of poverty. Conan is good fun with the usual pulp caveats. Start with “Frost-Giant’s Daughter” (short & will tell you if you can put up with his style: Conan tries to get some), “Red Nails” (probably the pick of the bunch: classic boy-meets-girl-meets-mesoamerican-dungeon-crawl) or maybe “Phoenix on the Sword”(first to be published: grumpy old man Conan is sick of being civil and wants to be barbaric again). Expect high camp. Lots of thews and ejaculations.
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Jan 9, 2024 16:50
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When the Elvensmith first heard Sauron pronounce the incantation on the Ring, was it in Black Speech too?
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Jan 9, 2024 17:22
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YaketySass posted:When the Elvensmith first heard Sauron pronounce the incantation on the Ring, was it in Black Speech too? Sauron forged it himself in secret didn't he?
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Jan 10, 2024 04:45
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Bruceski posted:Sauron forged it himself in secret didn't he? The wearers of the Three heard the final incantation when he spoke it, which is how anybody except Sauron knows the famous couplet at all. Nobody knew it was inscribed on the Ring itself except Saruman and Gandalf reading Isildur's description of it, which included a reproduction of the inscription but not a translation (because Isildur didn't know Black Speech). As for whether they heard Sauron's voice in BS, I would assume so. The translation we get is said to be "rough", and also I doubt Sauron would think that an Elven tongue would be suitable for such an evil working as the creation of the Ring to bind and dominate other wills. You'd pretty much have to do that in a language made for wickedness.
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Jan 10, 2024 09:32
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Galloping round Eriador with a phonetic transcription trying to find a nerd who's learned to speak Evil to find out exactly wtf you just heard.
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Jan 10, 2024 10:04
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It's kind of funny how, despite its centrality, there's so little information on the whole poem. We don't know who came up with it in-universe outside of the "One Ring" part, nor when it happened. Also lol: https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Ring_Verse posted:J.R.R. Tolkien has said that he first thought of the Ring Verse while taking a bath.[6]
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Jan 10, 2024 19:13
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Runcible Cat posted:Galloping round Eriador with a phonetic transcription trying to find a nerd who's learned to speak Evil to find out exactly wtf you just heard. Gandalf can read the Black Speech but it's against his programming to translate it to others. Gotta send him back to Iluvatar for a factory reset first. Wait, wrong franchise.
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Jan 10, 2024 19:27
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skasion posted:Yeah, like Lovecraft his only halfway marketable skill was writing fantasy fiction, so like Lovecraft during the Great Depression he more or less died of poverty. Conan is good fun with the usual pulp caveats. Start with “Frost-Giant’s Daughter” (short & will tell you if you can put up with his style: Conan tries to get some), “Red Nails” (probably the pick of the bunch: classic boy-meets-girl-meets-mesoamerican-dungeon-crawl) or maybe “Phoenix on the Sword”(first to be published: grumpy old man Conan is sick of being civil and wants to be barbaric again). Expect high camp. Lots of thews and ejaculations.  But it wasn't like Lovecraft's death from untreatable cancer.
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Jan 10, 2024 19:35
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Gandalf says “the Smiths of Eregion” (note the capitilisation of smiths ) heard Sauron say the rhyme so it may have been more than the 3 elf ring bearers that heard him Though who knows if Gandalf is right. He wasn’t there. But Elrond maybe would have corrected him
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Jan 10, 2024 19:36
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Runcible Cat posted:Galloping round Eriador with a phonetic transcription trying to find a nerd who's learned to speak Evil to find out exactly wtf you just heard. Cirdan the Neckbeard.
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Jan 10, 2024 19:49
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SHISHKABOB posted:I think it's an indictment of me that I had to Google Robert Howard. Familiar with Conan ofc, but never read it. Probably should. Pretty depressing end to Howard's life, wow. Yea for all his flaws he had so much potential as a writer, he was so young
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Jan 10, 2024 19:59
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Curiously Gandalf states the Smiths heard the translation of the rhyme, not the black speech Maybe Sauron said it in Sindarin (or whatever they spoke in Eregion then ) to mock them
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Jan 10, 2024 20:13
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Nessus posted:I believe Howard committed suicide after the death of his mother although he wasn't exactly living high on the hog either. Yes, the inciting event was his mother’s coma (she died the day after his suicide). One of the reasons why Howard was suicidal, however, was because he’d been spending much of his earnings on keeping his mom alive—she had chronic TB and had been ill for his entire career. They were never completely broke the way Lovecraft was (Howard was a much better salesman of himself), but he was in financial straits at the time of his death. His savings had been wiped in a bank collapse in 1931, Weird Tales was stiffing him for $1000 (a lot of money back then), and he had turned to writing softcore (in “Spicy Adventures” magazine!) for extra cash. He had other problems for sure (not unlike Lovecraft) but money was the ever-present one. I recommend reading Mark Finn’s “Blood and Thunder” if you want the deets on Howard’s life. Extremely interesting read.
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Jan 10, 2024 21:29
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euphronius posted:Curiously Gandalf states the Smiths heard the translation of the rhyme, not the black speech Lonesome Sauron in a mountain desolate... Will Hobbits be the end of me yet?
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Jan 11, 2024 08:28
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euphronius posted:the Smiths of Eregion heard Sauron say the rhyme so it may have been more than the 3 elf ring bearers that heard him Yeah, this forging is dedicated To all the smithies that told me I'd never amount to nothin' To all the dwarves that lived below the castles that I was hustlin' in front of Called the Balrogs on me when I was just tryin' to make some jewellery to treat my servants (it's all good) And all the Uruks in the struggle You know what I'm sayin'? It's all good, baby baby *puts on Ring* It was all a dream, I used to read Mordor! magazine
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Jan 11, 2024 13:12
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YaketySass posted:When the Elvensmith first heard Sauron pronounce the incantation on the Ring, was it in Black Speech too? Magical understanding or memory of languages happens all the time in LoTR, and is specifically associated with the Elves or the Ring. It seems very likely that Sauron spoke the incantation in the Black Speech, but the Elves understood it even without having specifically studied Sauron’s conlang of purest evil.
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Jan 11, 2024 13:27
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webmeister posted:Yeah, this forging is dedicated Lmao
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Jan 11, 2024 13:55
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cheetah7071 posted:Without actually looking at the book to double check, I recall the conversation saying that Sauron doesn't allow his servants to use the name Sauron; he prefers names that aren't sindarin insults And yet his emissary immediately states “I am the Mouth of Sauron” and uses the name Sauron repeatedly in the following conversation. I guess when you’re trying to be utterly evil you have to mix hypocrisy in to cover all your bases.
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Jan 25, 2024 18:58
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To all his evils, Sauron added inconsistent brand management
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Jan 26, 2024 00:01
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Sauron is a slur, but Mairon is reclaiming it! Girl power!
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Jan 26, 2024 00:26
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Hey thread, does anyone know if there's a readily-available edition of LOTR to reference the page numbers with the The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion 2nd edition? Paperback is fine. Thanks!
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Jan 26, 2024 11:26
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MadDogMike posted:And yet his emissary immediately states “I am the Mouth of Sauron” and uses the name Sauron repeatedly in the following conversation. I guess when you’re trying to be utterly evil you have to mix hypocrisy in to cover all your bases.
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Jan 26, 2024 13:35
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That guy was somewhat special being Numenorian and probably thought he was still independent of Sauron and and merely ally .
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Jan 26, 2024 13:46
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The probably-Nazgul who threatens King Dain also uses the name. “This least of rings that Sauron fancies.” Aragorn is the one who says that Sauron doesn’t use his name or permit it to be written or spoken. It’s in context of orc livery with a white elvish S badge, which they first find at Amon Hen. since Aragorn has been to Mordor he reminds Gimli and Legolas that he knows what Sauron’s badge is, the red eye. The rule is clearly not for everyone, but Mordor Orcs do indeed seem to have a hangup about the name. They speak of their leaders as “the Top Ones/Big Bosses” (inclusive of Nazgul and maybe others like the Mouth?), “Lugburz”for the whole governmental apparatus, and (in “almost a whisper”) “The Biggest Boss” and “Him”for Sauron personally.
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Jan 26, 2024 14:01
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Just finished a re read of the silmarillion. Starting the Hobbit now and the tone difference is wild. Especially with the elves
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Jan 27, 2024 07:03
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Imagine a history of the Hobbits written in the style of the Silmarillion. "Mighty was the swing of Bandobras..."
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Jan 27, 2024 08:24
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YaketySass posted:Imagine a history of the Hobbits written in the style of the Silmarillion. Reverse would be better. “In a hole in the void there lived a Deity.”
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Jan 27, 2024 12:00
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The noldor are cops
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Jan 27, 2024 18:49
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skasion posted:Reverse would be better. Anyone else get a "third eye opening" feeling from reading that?
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Jan 27, 2024 22:30
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YaketySass posted:Imagine a history of the Hobbits written in the style of the Silmarillion. Pratchett had a throwaway joke like this in one of the Watch books, where a dwarf copper started his paperwork with "Bright was the morning, and high our hearts, as we proceeded to the Alchemist's guild where events eventuated as I shall now sing..." Phy fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 22:21
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skasion posted:The probably-Nazgul who threatens King Dain also uses the name. “This least of rings that Sauron fancies.” This is one of the few inconsistent things JRRT has thats specific to just LOTR isn't it? He seems to have been pretty darn methodical in keeping things consistent at least within works - it was harder to keep things consistent between the Hobbit, LOTR and the never-published Silmarillion - even though he tried, like in the edited Hobbit. Which makes me feel like it was purposeful on his part? The fact that the Mouth of Sauron and the Likely-Nazgul used the term 'Sauron' over the wishes of Sauron is interesting. Or, they realized they were parlaying with non-Mordorians and figured that if they used a different title for their master no one would know who the hell they were talking about. As higher officers in Sauron's armies, one can imagine they had more latitude than a typical Orc. Dunno. It's interesting, though.
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Jan 31, 2024 20:20
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Something something translation from the original Westron text
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Jan 31, 2024 20:27
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Sauron is not a westron word tho. So it would be Sauron in westron. I think ? Who knows it’s all made up !!!
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Jan 31, 2024 20:42
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Mike N Eich posted:This is one of the few inconsistent things JRRT has thats specific to just LOTR isn't it? He seems to have been pretty darn methodical in keeping things consistent at least within works - it was harder to keep things consistent between the Hobbit, LOTR and the never-published Silmarillion - even though he tried, like in the edited Hobbit. Eh, there’s definitely inconsistencies in LOTR. It’s a big book written over a long period of time with breaks in the composition and huge shifts of direction and purpose as it went, so it would be more surprising if there weren’t. A lot of them have been emended by editors over the years, but there’s still a few that were too awkward to fix (like Gimli saying at Helm’s Deep “till now I have hewn naught but wood since I left Moria” when he clearly hewed some orcs at Amon Hen—presumably JRRT just forgot this because he didn’t narrate the event). I don’t think this is one of those necessarily, it can be readily explained away, but it wouldn’t be unbelievable if it were.
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Jan 31, 2024 20:43
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Isn't the famous inconsistency whether or not elves ride horses with saddles? I think someone wrote him a letter about it and he copped to messing that up in different places.
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Jan 31, 2024 20:46
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