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Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

BIG HEADLINE posted:

One of the worst flights I ever took started with a dude bringing on a huge bag of In & Out burgers and storing them in the overhead compartment.

It was a transcon flight. -_-

Please don’t leak operational details concerning AF1.

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PhotoKirk
Jul 2, 2007

insert witty text here

BIG HEADLINE posted:

One of the worst flights I ever took started with a dude bringing on a huge bag of In & Out burgers and storing them in the overhead compartment.

It was a transcon flight. -_-

I work with people who brought Greek food on a flight. That plane probably still smells like spanakopita.

Big Bowie Bonanza
Dec 30, 2007

please tell me where i can date this cute boy
I was saying I wanted overtime to come back but not like this and not this much

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

Platystemon posted:

Please don’t leak operational details concerning AF1.

Serious question. Does Trump only eat hamberders from McD or does he branch out and try other vendors of overcooked meat byproducts?

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
Second‐opinion bias tells us that this story is true:

quote:

Boeing already went fully on "cost control above all else" in the 1980s in response to deregulation. Deregulation caused their stocks to tank overnight and cost cutting was the cornerstone of their plan to fix stock prices. That's the cause of their issues today, not the merger some decade + later.

Former Boeing personnel have just weaved a fantastical tale about how none of it is their fault, how they were engineers leading engineers and how the merger killed all of that because McDonnell Douglas was full corporate monster. Reads great, issue is it's all bullshit that hadn't existed for over a decade by the time the merger went through.

  • 747 lead was a lawyer with no aviation engineering background
  • 737 lead was a lawyer with no aviation engineering background
  • McDonnell Douglas lost the YF-23 bid, partly because the entire team was nothing but engineers who went super in depth in technical specifications instead of just showing what the platform could do. There wasn't even an assigned salesman to the bid, while Lockheed's team was basically all salesman who wanted to awe USAF brass, not kill them via PowerPoints
  • Boeing innovation died in the 1980s, and has struggled to do really anything since then. Again, hit by the "cost above all else" policy. How did the merger kill innovation 10+ before it?
  • McDonnell Douglas was heavily hosed by the cancellation of the A-12. Their team worked on continually evolving Navy requirements, because their PMO shop was engineers not lawyers who would buck up to the Navy with "NOT IN SCOPE"

Boeing hosed themselves, and in typical Boeing fashion, wants to blame someone else for their own ineptitude... It's what they do best for the last 40 years now.

The merger didn't kill Boeing, Boeing killed Boeing and the corpse of McDonnell Douglas. It just took so long for Boeing to kill Boeing that people falsely equate it to the merger.

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Platystemon posted:

Second‐opinion bias tells us that this story is true:


"747 lead was a lawyer with no aviation engineering background"

Not sure what the poster means by "lead" here, but the program lead was Malcolm Stamper, was who an electrical engineer who started at Boeing as the head of aerospace electronics. The design lead was an aeronautical engineer who also worked on the 707. So I have no idea what this person is talking about.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Phanatic posted:

"747 lead was a lawyer with no aviation engineering background"

Not sure what the poster means by "lead" here, but the program lead was Malcolm Stamper, was who an electrical engineer who started at Boeing as the head of aerospace electronics. The design lead was an aeronautical engineer who also worked on the 707. So I have no idea what this person is talking about.

Beyond which, you can know a tree by the fruit it bears. I suppose it's possible that Boeing laid poison pills to make it look like they were incompetent as a result of the merger, but I don't think it makes common sense.

Scam Likely
Feb 19, 2021

BIG HEADLINE posted:

One of the worst flights I ever took started with a dude bringing on a huge bag of In & Out burgers and storing them in the overhead compartment.

It was a transcon flight. -_-

Best thing is to keep them in a backpack on your chest for easy access during take off and landing.

PainterofCrap
Oct 17, 2002

hey bebe



Crossposting from the OSHA thread:

LifeSunDeath posted:

action starts about halfway through
https://packaged-media.redd.it/q4yp...bed577bc847#t=0
can't park here

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002

Platystemon posted:

Second‐opinion bias tells us that this story is true:

not really true to say that innovation stopped for boeing, the 757/767 were developed in the early 80s simultaneously with a cockpit similar enough that one could be certified to fly both types

the 777 is easily the best commercial product boeing ever made, got the whole thing done and certified in record time, has insanely good reliability rating and very, very, very few total losses after nearly 30 years in service. 787 is innovative but the business model undermined all of the innovation behind it. the max stinks. the 777x is taking way too loving long to get certified. tanker is a loving mess.

767freighters are still cranking out for the two remaining customers until the end of 2026, so i guess they can still make something besides 777F.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
The 787 weighs a third again as much again as the 767.

It’s done well in spite of Boeing’s innovation, not because of it.

Thirty years of turbofan technology is a hell of a drug.

Platystemon fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Jan 10, 2024

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

BIG HEADLINE posted:

So has anyone in here been to the RAAF Museum outside of Melbourne?

I'm thinking of making a slight trip-within-a-trip when I'm in Sydney in August and going down there for two nights to see Moorabin Air Museum as well.

(and yes, I've every intention of taking the train to go to HARS at Shellharbour)

I’ve never been to RAAF museum sorry, but I find it hard to believe it would be worth a flight SYD-MEL.

If you go to HARS try to make it a Tarmac Day.

There also Fleet Air Arm Museum at HMAS Albatross but you might need a car to visit that.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

I just "lost*" an employee to Boeing, and my fiance had this :iceburn: to say about it.


quote:

True. It'll prolong getting some income until Boeing shuts down someday. I mean someone just found a loving plane door in their backyard, I'm sorry but I'm not taking a job at a company where that just happened 😂

*not much of one though.

big dong wanter
Jan 28, 2010

The future for this country is roads, freeways and highways

To the dangerzone

BIG HEADLINE posted:

So has anyone in here been to the RAAF Museum outside of Melbourne?

I'm thinking of making a slight trip-within-a-trip when I'm in Sydney in August and going down there for two nights to see Moorabin Air Museum as well.

(and yes, I've every intention of taking the train to go to HARS at Shellharbour)

I went to the raaf museum for a school trip and it fuckin whipped from memory.
If you are going to the moorabbin air museum make sure you go on one of the days they let you in the planes. Sitting in a cac f86 and playing with the stick is top 10 childhood regression moments of my life. Also the racer cafe (?) Really close has an excellent selection of motorcycles to geez at and if you feel like, purchase

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe

PainterofCrap posted:

Crossposting from the OSHA thread:

There's also another angle of that from a person filming the takeoff and crash. Looks like the rear rotor either didn't start or clipped a tree or something

drunkill
Sep 25, 2007

me @ ur posting
Fallen Rib

BIG HEADLINE posted:

So has anyone in here been to the RAAF Museum outside of Melbourne?

I'm thinking of making a slight trip-within-a-trip when I'm in Sydney in August and going down there for two nights to see Moorabin Air Museum as well.

(and yes, I've every intention of taking the train to go to HARS at Shellharbour)

Not worth a flight down imo just for that, but you could spend two hours at RAAF Point Cook easily. as part of a Melbourne trip.

Try go on a weekend when they have a flying display or a restoration engine run etc.

They have an extra hangar with a bunch of other planes which you can't get close to, but have a viewing platform inside it.

Bring a drivers license as the museum is on an 'active' airbase so the guards will want ID to let you in.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

~Coxy posted:

I’ve never been to RAAF museum sorry, but I find it hard to believe it would be worth a flight SYD-MEL.

If you go to HARS try to make it a Tarmac Day.

There also Fleet Air Arm Museum at HMAS Albatross but you might need a car to visit that.

There are a few reasons I'm considering a side trip to Melbourne. At first, I thought the RAAF Museum had the only F-111G in the world on display, but now it turns out that it's the only RAAF F-111G on display and there are four Gs in the US (and the most conveniently-located one is in Denver). Another reason is because it'll likely be quite a long time before I find my way down to Australia again, I can budget the time (even though I'll only have a little over a week), and the hotel I'll be staying at in the CBD said they don't mind storing my larger bag so I can travel light down to Melbourne (I intend on checking back in for a night before departing on the 17th).

I also wasn't aware of Tarmac Days - it doesn't seem they've published the 2024 dates yet, but there's a *chance* it might overlap the dates I'll be in-country in mid-August (EDIT: Seems it'd have to be August 10th or 11th since I arrive the 9th). I also wasn't even aware of the Fleet Air Arm museum, but yes, it does appear that the logistics to get to it will be a little complicated. It's a 2 1/2h train ride on the South Coast Line to get to HARS and it practically drops you on its doorstep at Albion Park, but the FAA Museum appears to be about an hour down and back by car *from* HARS - I might have to rent one at Shellharbour to make it work.

big dong wanter posted:

I went to the raaf museum for a school trip and it fuckin whipped from memory.
If you are going to the moorabbin air museum make sure you go on one of the days they let you in the planes. Sitting in a cac f86 and playing with the stick is top 10 childhood regression moments of my life. Also the racer cafe (?) Really close has an excellent selection of motorcycles to geez at and if you feel like, purchase

Thanks for the tip(s)! :v:

And I'm guessing this is the place you're talking about? https://nrmotoco.com/

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jan 10, 2024

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
There was a fatal crash of a 172 in Iceland last year, does anyone know if the investigation ever found out what happened? I can't find anything.
https://www.ruv.is/english/2023-07-10-three-dead-after-a-crash-landing-of-a-plane-in-east-iceland-387410
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/316661

I did a flight like that with a friend a year before that so that was a bit of an ooof

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013

BonoMan posted:

There's also another angle of that from a person filming the takeoff and crash. Looks like the rear rotor either didn't start or clipped a tree or something

If the main rotor starts, so does the tail and you ain't taking off without a tail rotor. The tail rotor is driven by the main gearbox, after the freewheel/clutch.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Platystemon posted:

Second‐opinion bias tells us that this story is true:

So if Boeing is like GM, then its decline is almost fractially complected; back when people opined on GM's decline a lot, I heard cogent theories stretching back to the 1960s.

That said, the existing Boeing management has done literally everything they could to get somebody else blamed, including calling in favors to blame individual employees in the scummier corners of the national media, IE the New York Times, so for me at this juncture the evidence burden is overwhelmingly on anybody claiming it is not the current Boeing management

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

OBAMNA PHONE posted:

not really true to say that innovation stopped for boeing, the 757/767 were developed in the early 80s simultaneously with a cockpit similar enough that one could be certified to fly both types

the 777 is easily the best commercial product boeing ever made, got the whole thing done and certified in record time, has insanely good reliability rating and very, very, very few total losses after nearly 30 years in service. 787 is innovative but the business model undermined all of the innovation behind it. the max stinks. the 777x is taking way too loving long to get certified. tanker is a loving mess.

767freighters are still cranking out for the two remaining customers until the end of 2026, so i guess they can still make something besides 777F.

How's the P-8 program? Someone I know just made a big downpayment on some

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe

ImplicitAssembler posted:

If the main rotor starts, so does the tail and you ain't taking off without a tail rotor. The tail rotor is driven by the main gearbox, after the freewheel/clutch.

Copy, so it must've clipped a tree I guess. I was watching reels on Insta and both popped up. It was on my phone so harder to see, but very shortly after takeoff the helo turns and goes by some trees (can't tell if it hit) and the tail rotor is definitely barely spinning if at all and the pilot quickly gets it to ground.

edit: or I guess I could just google it lol. It was rotor failure. The video here is crappy but the tail rotor starts then appears to giveout as soon as it gets in the air.

6 people on board - including a doctor and nurse transporting a crash victim - and luckily everyone was fine!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/police-chopper-crash-lands-on-brazilian-highway/ar-AA1mKT2T

BonoMan fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jan 10, 2024

OBAMNA PHONE
Aug 7, 2002

Nebakenezzer posted:

How's the P-8 program? Someone I know just made a big downpayment on some

Seems to be ok? on schedule and no bad press? Almost done making them though

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!

mobby_6kl posted:

There was a fatal crash of a 172 in Iceland last year, does anyone know if the investigation ever found out what happened? I can't find anything.
https://www.ruv.is/english/2023-07-10-three-dead-after-a-crash-landing-of-a-plane-in-east-iceland-387410
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/316661

I did a flight like that with a friend a year before that so that was a bit of an ooof

The RNSA says they expect to issue a report in 1-3 years. https://www-austurfrett-is.translat...&_x_tr_pto=wapp

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Safety Dance posted:

The RNSA says they expect to issue a report in 1-3 years. https://www-austurfrett-is.translat...&_x_tr_pto=wapp
Oh thanks. I couldn't find anything newer than those articles from just after the crash. 1-3 years puts the earliest to this summer so I guess we might (or might now) see something soon-ish.

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013


Oooff. Very lucky and good reactions/decisions by the pilot.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Nebakenezzer posted:

How's the P-8 program? Someone I know just made a big downpayment on some

It's a 737 not-MAX so it's probably a good airplane if Boeing can manage to tighten all the bolts

Wombot
Sep 11, 2001

Is the other thread that's more focused on piloting the AT "Aviation Megathread"?

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Wombot posted:

Is the other thread that's more focused on piloting the AT "Aviation Megathread"?

Yes. There is also a “Coldwar/AirPower” thread in TFR that talks as much about current military equipment as history. (I mean, most military equipment is from before the walls fell so…)

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

https://twitter.com/cnbctheexchange/status/1745158933000425792?s=46

I’m going to have to start using “a quality escape occurred” in JIRAs.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

hobbesmaster posted:

https://twitter.com/cnbctheexchange/status/1745158933000425792?s=46

I’m going to have to start using “a quality escape occurred” in JIRAs.

I love "the front fell off" for its own sake, but to be fair, it's also more convincing than this anthropomorphic penis trying to excuse his fuckups.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


bull3964 posted:

How do regulators even respond to something like this (besides the glib "let Boeing do what they want")?

Do you haul in all planes that were built in the timeframe that this particular issue was found and do a complete post assembly inspection? I mean, if this was an assembly issue that's not due to some flawed process for this specific thing and instead was just negligence in general work, then any number of other things could be suspect.

Gas management ban operator

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


hobbesmaster posted:

https://twitter.com/cnbctheexchange/status/1745158933000425792?s=46

I’m going to have to start using “a quality escape occurred” in JIRAs.

jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus he couldn't prepare anything better than this?

swear to God you can almost see the zipper of his human suit

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

hobbesmaster posted:

https://twitter.com/cnbctheexchange/status/1745158933000425792?s=46

I’m going to have to start using “a quality escape occurred” in JIRAs.

God drat that was painful

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

What I would give for the next question to have been "are you suggesting the MCAS incidents were not safety related?"

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

hobbesmaster posted:

https://twitter.com/cnbctheexchange/status/1745158933000425792?s=46

I’m going to have to start using “a quality escape occurred” in JIRAs.

That use of the passive voice, Jesus christ.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy


loving Boeing!!! :argh:

Freaquency
May 10, 2007

"Yes I can hear you, I don't have ear cancer!"

mobby_6kl posted:



loving Boeing!!! :argh:

I think that’s called a quality escape now

the milk machine
Jul 23, 2002

lick my keys
these woke airplanes have too many holes in them, people and air and such are just falling out all the time

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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

the milk machine posted:

these woke airplanes have too many holes in them, people and air and such are just falling out all the time

People and air and quality.

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