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stephenthinkpad posted:The reason Japan is so insistent on denying WW2 war crime is that MacArthur and the imperial US made a deal with the imperial Japanese elites and heavily rely on the sons and grandsons of these war crime committers to control Japan. This is the fundamental reason Japan can't walk close with the rest of East Asia. yeah that's why it's ironically funny that the US protecting Japanese war criminals from prosecution would prevent reconciliation between the anti-china axis clients and whoops abetting war time officials and perpetrators would have a blowback effect america should've done the right thing but anticommunism brain strikes again
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Jan 10, 2024 02:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvlTJrNJ5lA
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Jan 10, 2024 02:44
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stephenthinkpad posted:They will steal the foreign reserve of mainland and Taiwan and then try and fail to sanction China's export business. We have see season 1 of this show already. Stealing foreign reserves sounds much cooler when you imagine a James Bond style movie heist of a giant container ship secretly loaded with gold bars that sinks dramatically during the action packed climax over some ocean trench too deep for salvage. When you realise it just means changing some excel spreadsheet cells it loses the dramatic impact.
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Jan 10, 2024 03:56
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DancingShade posted:Stealing foreign reserves sounds much cooler when you imagine a James Bond style movie heist of a giant container ship secretly loaded with gold bars that sinks dramatically during the action packed climax over some ocean trench too deep for salvage. I'm picturing the vault break-in from Die Hard With A Vengeance except there's no gold. The Germans tunnel through the subway, break down the wall, plug a USB into the nearest computer, and bail.
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Jan 10, 2024 04:01
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Real hurthling! posted:a no iraq 2 us empire that only went to afganistan and defeated the taliban somehow and sat between china and iran was probably a homerun sales pitch at the pentagon as part of the china pivot but then oops we decided to gently caress up all of west asia by destroying iraq Even in '20-'21 during the pullout of Afghanistan there was some handwringing about giving up strategic bases.
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Jan 10, 2024 04:12
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Frosted Flake posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but embracing the collaborators with Imperial Japan is still beyond the pale, as well as a redline for the PRC? I know we installed them to run South Korea after the war, for example, but even then, South Korea has never embraced collaboration, so far as I know. I imagine that would be even more fraught for Formosa? btw, I'm sure the true believers have synthesized it already somehow, but any analysis of Taiwanese hard belief in the Co-Prosperity Sphere really needs to reckon with the matter that the KMT didn't arrive until well after Japanese surrender. Anticommunist and anti-漢 are two different core constituencies, given that the fervent anticommunists in context of the civil war were refugee 漢, no?
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Jan 10, 2024 04:17
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DancingShade posted:Stealing foreign reserves sounds much cooler when you imagine a James Bond style movie heist of a giant container ship secretly loaded with gold bars that sinks dramatically during the action packed climax over some ocean trench too deep for salvage. It's Twelve-Angry-Men style intense drama of the illuminati arguing over whether to seize China's foreign reserve for two hours, featuring Emusk, Gates, Walmart's family, big oil, big MIC, with George Soros casting the decisive vote in the last minute.
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Jan 10, 2024 04:35
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Ardennes posted:The PRC also has the ability to call up its airforce right there not to mention navy. It just isn't a feasible fight for the US, and a collapse of supply lines is going to be clearly more devastating to the US than the PRC especially since the entire region could possibly be disrupted. That and Russia is right next door with all their iron mines.
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Jan 10, 2024 04:36
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Real hurthling! posted:a no iraq 2 us empire that only went to afganistan and defeated the taliban somehow and sat between china and iran was probably a homerun sales pitch at the pentagon as part of the china pivot but then oops we decided to gently caress up all of west asia by destroying iraq
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Jan 10, 2024 04:49
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Mandoric posted:btw, I'm sure the true believers have synthesized it already somehow, but any analysis of Taiwanese hard belief in the Co-Prosperity Sphere really needs to reckon with the matter that the KMT didn't arrive until well after Japanese surrender. Anticommunist and anti-漢 are two different core constituencies, given that the fervent anticommunists in context of the civil war were refugee 漢, no? I have no idea. A classmate of mine was the grandson of a defeated KMT general, and that's all I know about the Chinese Civil War, other than the book on sieges in the Chinese Civil War I read and posted about in the Ukraine thread in early 2022.
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Jan 10, 2024 04:50
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Real hurthling! posted:a no iraq 2 us empire that only went to afganistan and defeated the taliban somehow and sat between china and iran was probably a homerun sales pitch at the pentagon as part of the china pivot but then oops we decided to gently caress up all of west asia by destroying iraq The Cabal was planning on Iraq 2 before the first plane even hit the towers. A timeline where we get Iraq 2 but no Afghanistan is more likely than one where we get Afghanistan but no Iraq 2.
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Jan 10, 2024 05:18
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Frosted Flake posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but embracing the collaborators with Imperial Japan is still beyond the pale, as well as a redline for the PRC? I know we installed them to run South Korea after the war, for example, but even then, South Korea has never embraced collaboration, so far as I know. I imagine that would be even more fraught for Formosa? My understanding of South Korea's collaboration situation comes only from what an old former girlfriend once told me (I didn't care to verify or otherwise research - it wasn't interesting to me) which is that the collaborators did very well, were widely disliked, but nevertheless came out of the whole situation both rich & powerful and formed the core elites post war. I have no idea if any of that is true. There may have been some bias on part of the person telling me this, again I didn't care to look into it.
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Jan 10, 2024 05:34
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Syngman Rhee was president of korea and then south korea from 48 to 60. he was installed by the us, after living in the us from 39 to 45. he was a quisling of the us, not japan. his party doctrine was made by Ahn Ho-sang, a guy who studied philosophy in germany during the 20s and subsequently was a fervent fascist and ethnonationalist. collaborators with the japanese generally suffered no consequences. a few hundred were sentenced for various crimes with punishments ranging from fines to death, but when rhee took over he dissolved the tribunal and freed the collaborators. s korea did eventually pass a law to seize collaborator property, in 2007. knowing nothing about it, seems like horseshit
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Jan 10, 2024 06:13
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galagazombie posted:The Cabal was planning on Iraq 2 before the first plane even hit the towers. A timeline where we get Iraq 2 but no Afghanistan is more likely than one where we get Afghanistan but no Iraq 2. very smart people thought the us was doing geopolitical chess and not you killed my daddy checkers
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Jan 10, 2024 06:25
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BillsPhoenix posted:I've seen a fair bit written or speeches about US vs China military wise, the importance of Taiwanese chips, strategic location, missile bases, etc. this one is actually p easy to figure out. take a look at the electronic gizmos you own and try to find one that doesn't have any components that were made in china in it. if you actually manage to find one then congrats, that's what westoids are going to have access to if trade with china gets cut off because this dumbass just in time ideology that most everybody's adopted means that there aren't even any physical stocks worth a drat to draw from when the supply chains fall apart so in short, if there's a shooting war with china the us economy is going to collapse p much overnight stephenthinkpad posted:I still don't understand why some people in Ukraine like Germany so much. its because they're nazis, hth
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Jan 10, 2024 06:30
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Cerebral Bore posted:this one is actually p easy to figure out. take a look at the electronic gizmos you own and try to find one that doesn't have any components that were made in china in it. if you actually manage to find one then congrats, that's what westoids are going to have access to if trade with china gets cut off because this dumbass just in time ideology that most everybody's adopted means that there aren't even any physical stocks worth a drat to draw from when the supply chains fall apart Yes but the people in charge have trouble even understanding the concept of the food they consume via doordash coming from farms and all the associated production and transport factors, so yeah. We've banned petrol vehicles hooray! Holy poo poo why are my McDonalds nuggets now $30 for a dozen? Also what do you mean you can't replace the screen on my dropped iphone? Or order me a new one? Failkids pulling the levers of their nation blindly.
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Jan 10, 2024 06:54
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yeah, i'm definitely not saying that it's not gonna happen because if there is a way to shoot yourself in the foot then the us ruling classes are most likely going to find it i guess this is also one of the reasons why china is taking their time over the taiwan issue, because america is an insane beast and if the treat train grinds to a halt it might just decide to nuke the world out of spite
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Jan 10, 2024 07:41
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You know that scene in Hot Shots 2 where Saddam is wearing a sleeping mask and staggering around blindly firing 2 pistols into everything in his bedroom while dressed in his night shirt? That but it's the USA. Scene for those who never watched a good comedy movie because they didn't experience the 90s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz7jcibOWO8
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Jan 10, 2024 08:13
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Orange Devil posted:The weirdest thing I saw in China was in Xi'an in the subway of the central station (the one at the iconic Bell Tower) having these huge pictures up proudly displaying all the world leaders and famous people who had visited Xi'an, which included Clinton. I was like "err, you know he's the one who bombed your embassy right?". i cant find a picture of the back of the bottle online, but theres a beer in guangxi province thats named 漓泉1998, in honor of 1998 when bill clinton went to their city to give a speech. the back of the label has a bunch of words about bill clinton 
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Jan 10, 2024 08:50
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DancingShade posted:You know that scene in Hot Shots 2 where Saddam is wearing a sleeping mask and staggering around blindly firing 2 pistols into everything in his bedroom while dressed in his night shirt? Just reminded me of how absolutely all in with Saddam everyone was compared to every other leader of an “enemy” country who becomes the nation’s designated villain for the media cycle. Putin has absolutely nothing on the omnipresence and omnidisgust Saddam was generating. And unlike the rest of the “rogues gallery” the propaganda never got tired and moved on after the first media cycle, he was there nonstop for almost 15 years. They really wanted this guy to be the next Soviet Union. (Hot Shots is still great though)
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Jan 10, 2024 08:52
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fart simpson posted:i cant find a picture of the back of the bottle online, but theres a beer in guangxi province thats named 漓泉1998, in honor of 1998 when bill clinton went to their city to give a speech. the back of the label has a bunch of words about bill clinton This is I think the funniest thing about the us imploding itself to desperately spark conflict to control things every bit longer. The US could do nothing, slowly get eclipsed, and through the shear weight of its cultural power dominate world culture for 100 years more. The world has already basically become the US in its media trappings, people who hate the US wear US cultural logo clothes, watch US movies, are absorbed in greater US/western culture. The internet only strengthened that, English is far and away the lingua franca of the modern world. The power of US cultural cache where people from a country bombed and vilified by the US, are excited to name a beer after their leader giving a talk there once is astounding. It's like the US achieved a total cultural victory in civ, that they could have rode out for decades and decades, but they're face palming so hard they're going to force world culture to absorb from elsewhere sooner rather than later. It's kind of amazing.
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Jan 10, 2024 10:20
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fart simpson posted:i cant find a picture of the back of the bottle online, but theres a beer in guangxi province thats named 漓泉1998, in honor of 1998 when bill clinton went to their city to give a speech. the back of the label has a bunch of words about bill clinton This is some cuck poo poo. A rare China loss.
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Jan 10, 2024 10:30
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Tom Guycot posted:It's like the US achieved a total cultural victory in civ, that they could have rode out for decades and decades, but they're face palming so hard they're going to force world culture to absorb from elsewhere sooner rather than later. a bit of a digression, but as I've grown older, I've found the additional victory conditions added by Civs past #2 to be unserious and un-materialist. a "Cultural" victory is merely a reflection of America-centric design sensibilities casting about for a way to declare an "end of history" for a game that was designed in the post-USSR world order the only thing that matters is Conquest, and maybe the Alpha Centauri launch vehicle (which itself requires tremendous scientific and production capacity, and a military capable of defending it if it's a close race, which grounds the basis for the win) and, sure, maybe total global domination is impossible in a world with nuclear weapons, but them's the breaks setting that aside, if Civilization really wanted to avoid every game devolving into a world conquest, what they should have focused on was making it more difficult to maintain such large empires, rather than creating these cop-out victory conditions that allow you to "win" by some arbitrary metric, that, oops, doesn't actually matter when the rubber meets the road
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Jan 10, 2024 10:40
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Orange Devil posted:This is some cuck poo poo. A rare China loss. The Sino-Soviet split has been a complete disaster for humanity. Weren't there a bunch of people on Weibo who were sad about Kissinger, too? I remember hearing that.
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Jan 10, 2024 10:50
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gradenko_2000 posted:a bit of a digression, but as I've grown older, I've found the additional victory conditions added by Civs past #2 to be unserious and un-materialist. a "Cultural" victory is merely a reflection of America-centric design sensibilities casting about for a way to declare an "end of history" for a game that was designed in the post-USSR world order I think there is some merit to a diplomatic victory in a sense of "all countries deciding to put their differences aside and form a world government to lead all of humanity" kind of way, but that's effectively the same end-state as world conquest. The issue with that is in game terms though, who exactly wins the diplomatic victory? Is it the largest or strongest country? This is just conquest again without the mopping up phase. Is it the "most influential" country? This is either conquest again or dumb bullshit through some arbitrary gamey definition of influence which you can generate as something separate from military or industrial might or whatever. Is it whoever got the most votes? Who gets to votes and how many votes do they get and how does any of this work exactly? Is it everyone? Probably realistically yeah it's either everyone or its just conquest, but everyone winning doesn't feel like a satisfying ending to a confrontational game does it? Probably the largest failings of both the 4x and grand strategy genres (well, aside from the AI not being able to use the systems designed and refusing to have the AI work off of systems it *can* handle) is that 95%+ of all the systems designed in all the games are positive feedback loops allowing snowballing into ever more conquest, and nobody has a loving clue on how to design fun, interesting, engaging and sufficient negative feedback loops to hinder and challenge large empires. And no, mechanics specifically designed to reward "playing tall" are not the answer. Note the difference in rewarding playing tall vs hindering getting larger. A player who can from the outset of the game decide on a strategy of "I'm not going to grow beyond X threshold because of game mechanics X, Y and Z" isn't making strategic decisions, they are gaming the system. Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 11:58 on Jan 10, 2024 |
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Jan 10, 2024 11:49
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Orange Devil posted:I think there is some merit to a diplomatic victory in a sense of "all countries deciding to put their differences aside and form a world government to lead all of humanity" kind of way, but that's effectively the same end-state as world conquest. Idk, does this matter? Sure you can decide that everyone wins. If you think that's lame, why don't you conquer the world about it?
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Jan 10, 2024 11:55
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Cerebral Bore posted:this one is actually p easy to figure out. take a look at the electronic gizmos you own and try to find one that doesn't have any components that were made in china in it. if you actually manage to find one then congrats, that's what westoids are going to have access to if trade with china gets cut off because this dumbass just in time ideology that most everybody's adopted means that there aren't even any physical stocks worth a drat to draw from when the supply chains fall apart actually the economy won’t collapse over night because there would still be tonnes of stuff still on its way on container ships, instead we would have to face days of news articles talking about how trade with china is overblown and we don’t need china at all actually we can just quantative ease our way out of it
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Jan 10, 2024 12:14
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don't think civilization is even trying to be an accurate or realistic simulation.
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Jan 10, 2024 12:18
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you can get the tame Western press to print anything, but getting people in Taiwan to die for it is something altogether. I don’t think Ukraine is going to be repeatable in most places since they were primed for it. As absurdly dominated as Europe has become by US geopolitical goals, I do wonder if a Chinese blockade wouldn’t start some backpedaling from allies. Remember with everything JiT the blockade is going to be felt immediately. It’s not just necessarily Chinese goods but it’ll also be easy to interdict goods heading to the US or Europe from Asia if the Chinese respond. Alternative routes would be found, but that’s the Yemen situation times a thousand. No matter what that’s immediate gigantic economic depression across the entire Western world. Taking the hit from pulling away from Russian gas isn’t poo poo in comparison. It could quickly turn from trying to isolate China to the US itself being isolated. Though as impotent as America has looked from the Yemen situation it’s possible even delusions of any of this happening are way out of date.
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Jan 10, 2024 16:14
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Speak of the Taiwanese nationalism myth-making devil and he shall appear https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67920287 https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2024/01/taiwan-2024-election-china/677077/ https://www.npr.org/2024/01/09/1198909944/what-it-means-to-be-taiwanese-for-one-family https://www.ft.com/content/6e9a0243-87f2-445e-b563-e8f67082b3da All within the last 24 hours
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Jan 10, 2024 16:26
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The Oldest Man posted:Speak of the Taiwanese nationalism myth-making devil and he shall appear Our national (central euro) broadcaster had a feature about Taiwanese "civil defense" courses some days ago. Lmao.
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Jan 10, 2024 16:30
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FuzzySlippers posted:As absurdly dominated as Europe has become by US geopolitical goals, I do wonder if a Chinese blockade wouldn’t start some backpedaling from allies. Remember with everything JiT the blockade is going to be felt immediately. It’s not just necessarily Chinese goods but it’ll also be easy to interdict goods heading to the US or Europe from Asia if the Chinese respond. Alternative routes would be found, but that’s the Yemen situation times a thousand. No matter what that’s immediate gigantic economic depression across the entire Western world. Taking the hit from pulling away from Russian gas isn’t poo poo in comparison. there will be no backpedaling, because there are no allies. the us and european ruling class are one and the same, and the states they control are a single nondecomposable system that acts to maintain the stability of that system. trying to understand its behavior in terms of distinct states will always seem absurd. they are one, and they will all act to the detriment of their own states if it serves to maintain the overall system.
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Jan 10, 2024 16:35
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Zodium posted:there will be no backpedaling, because there are no allies. the us and european ruling class are one and the same, and the states they control are a single nondecomposable system that acts to maintain the stability of that system. trying to understand its behavior in terms of distinct states will always seem absurd. they are one, and they will all act to the detriment of their own states if it serves to maintain the overall system. I think there is a limit though, and the European ruling class specifically is seeing some splits form. The UK may go down with the ship, but there may be limits on how much the EU can accept. Also, I don't think the US can get away with a Ukraine situation in Taiwan, most notably, because Taipei can't keep a war going for longer than a few weeks before the entire economy falls apart. The PRC doesn't need waves of troops hitting the beaches, they just need the Taiwanese elite to throw in the towel. Taiwan is ultimately is in a much more vulnerable position.
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Jan 10, 2024 16:52
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Tom Guycot posted:This is I think the funniest thing about the us imploding itself to desperately spark conflict to control things every bit longer. Yeah but the US in the 90s ruled though. Would you have inspired to be more like the US if all you see are Disney cosmic superhero crap and endless COD games coming out of that country?
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Jan 10, 2024 17:14
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Ardennes posted:I think there is a limit though, and the European ruling class specifically is seeing some splits form. The UK may go down with the ship, but there may be limits on how much the EU can accept. germany is the heart of the european project, raised no objection to the us blowing up it's energy imports and is deindustrializing at a double digit percent rate i don't think there's a limit
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Jan 10, 2024 17:29
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Zodium posted:there will be no backpedaling, because there are no allies. the us and european ruling class are one and the same, and the states they control are a single nondecomposable system that acts to maintain the stability of that system. trying to understand its behavior in terms of distinct states will always seem absurd. they are one, and they will all act to the detriment of their own states if it serves to maintain the overall system. There's still a lot of people who are not the ruling class living in that system though, and I think they will generally perceive such a situation as Europe taking a hit for the US. Whether they'll go along with it or rise up is the dollar or yuen question.
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Jan 10, 2024 19:13
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The European ruling class made their choice decades ago, they're willing vassals of the US and will deindustrialize/strip their economies for parts as instructed to. Genuine leftist organization (as in, dedicated communist and anti-imperialist) was stamped out in Europe during the Cold War. So public backlash to this decline will be expressed primarily through fascist parties, as we're seeing in Germany with the rise of the AfD.
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Jan 10, 2024 20:04
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VoicesCanBe posted:The European ruling class made their choice decades ago, they're willing vassals of the US and will deindustrialize/strip their economies for parts as instructed to. Yup
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Jan 10, 2024 20:08
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gradenko_2000 posted:a bit of a digression, but as I've grown older, I've found the additional victory conditions added by Civs past #2 to be unserious and un-materialist. a "Cultural" victory is merely a reflection of America-centric design sensibilities casting about for a way to declare an "end of history" for a game that was designed in the post-USSR world order lol the diplomatic victory. Ok so you've somehow managed to create a power bloc and can just make the world vote you as the winner. I always turn that one off because it's so loving stupid.
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Jan 10, 2024 20:23
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From what I remember Civ doesn't have an economic victory condition, right? It has technology but nothing explicitly tied to economics. That seems like a pretty silly oversight.
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Jan 10, 2024 20:26
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