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I have a question - it feels like there's a smart solution to my problem but I might not have enough experience with the game to recognize it yet. I have a red circuit assembly block that needs to have a split lane of green circuits and plastic fed together into it on 6 red belts.  The blue belts here denote where I need to feed those plastic/green circuit lines in. I'm trying to find a solution that takes these 8 input belts and does that in a non-insane-spaghetti fashion. My current thought is that maybe I could use cargo wagons? One at the head of each set of 3 lanes, and just feed belts into those with filtered/reserved slots, let the wagon do the 'balancing' for me, and then pull the materials out onto belts from the wagons with inserters in a way that keeps the copper and plastic each to a side?
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Jan 10, 2024 21:49
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Instead of bringing the materials to the center, send them to their respective sides. So plastic would go towards the left side of your screen shot and green circuits to the right. Then build a 4 to 6 balancer vertically on each side. Run the unloaded material into the vertical balancer and make a 90 degree turn towards your factories. Run the plastic left to right and the green circuits right to left, side loading each onto the blue belt. 
Filthy Lucre fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jan 10, 2024 |
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Jan 10, 2024 22:11
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Trying to do SpaceX without warehousing and loaders is adding some difficulty.
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Jan 10, 2024 23:01
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4-to-6 balancers was my initial thought too, but since you're only really using 3 blue belts of each product you can get away with building a 4-to-3 out of blue belts to save space and probably have less spaghetti to route around. Send one belt of each product to each pair of assembler lines and use the two-splitters-facing-each-other thing to get 2 output belts. It's not too dissimilar from the build I did recently which takes 3 red input belts of each and turns it into 3 yellow belts of chips. Since you don't need to run iron through the middle for a different project this should be doable a lot more cleanly than this. 
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Jan 10, 2024 23:24
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Is there any mod that extends the functionality of shift right clicking on a building then shift left clicking to copy through to other things? I'd love to be able to do that from a building to an inserter that has an empty circuit condition to automatically use that product in the condition slot. So like if I am building a mall I can just copy from building to inserter to control amounts being inserted.
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Jan 10, 2024 23:56
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Chin Strap posted:Is there any mod that extends the functionality of shift right clicking on a building then shift left clicking to copy through to other things? I'd love to be able to do that from a building to an inserter that has an empty circuit condition to automatically use that product in the condition slot. So like if I am building a mall I can just copy from building to inserter to control amounts being inserted. Look forward to parameterized blueprints in the expansion, I guess
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Jan 11, 2024 00:37
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I found one that works it is called Additional Paste Settings. Does exactly what I wanted. You can even in the settings change the default behavior so that the inserter cuts off at some multiple of stack size, or time to craft, or number of items.
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Jan 11, 2024 00:46
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Filthy Lucre posted:Instead of bringing the materials to the center, send them to their respective sides. So plastic would go towards the left side of your screen shot and green circuits to the right. Thanks for this, it makes things much more reasonable than what I otherwise had in mind.
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Jan 11, 2024 02:26
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Filthy Lucre posted:Instead of bringing the materials to the center, send them to their respective sides. So plastic would go towards the left side of your screen shot and green circuits to the right. Ugh. Now I had to do these.  I do appreciate how neat things look on the belt when using balancers, but the balancer themselves are disgusting. I use something like this, if you prioritize the output side belts are still neat looking because they represent the utilization of the factory block visually. And that's really cool. [*] On the right side, I even built the upgraded version for when you want to feed 4 blue belts into it!!  [*]Right, I could calculate ratios, but after creating a spm ratio sheet for Krastorio 2 I don't want to any more.
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Jan 11, 2024 04:22
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Well, just to give you an alternative, this is what that looks like with Warehousing + Loader Redux I'm sure someone could actually make that even more efficient. M_Gargantua fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Jan 11, 2024 |
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Jan 11, 2024 05:48
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M_Gargantua posted:Well, just to give you an alternative, this is what that looks like with Warehousing + Loader Redux This is absolutely just my personal opinion, but I accept the warehousing mod and reject the loaders. I meet the loaders halfway and use Bob’s Adjustable Inserters instead. To me, a big part of Factorio is enjoying the spatial puzzle of moving things around. Inserters are foundational to that puzzle to me. Loaders feel like they make it too boring. Same thing goes for that Advanced Fluid Handling mod that just lets you link up pipes in whatever directions underground. I haven’t been sure if the warehouses actually served as effective balancers or not because that would partly hinge on arm swing distance with Inserters. I also wasn’t sure what the performance hit would be like using one of those in place of where I have belt balancers on a megabase scale. I’m sure using it with loaders would be more UPS friendly.
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Jan 11, 2024 05:58
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Harvey Baldman posted:I have a question - it feels like there's a smart solution to my problem but I might not have enough experience with the game to recognize it yet. Since you have 4 full supply lines that are only feeding 3 full demand belts, you don't need to worry about balancing or fancy stuff, just use priority splitters and compress as you split off. This is for a completely different build, but basically do what the 4 plastic belts are doing here. You'll never have a shortfall due to your supply exceeding the demand side. You could feed one item from the left and the other from the right to make it look nice. 
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Jan 11, 2024 06:04
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M_Gargantua posted:Well, just to give you an alternative, this is what that looks like with Warehousing + Loader Redux This is fun. As half of every output belt doesn't get used anyway we can get away with this:  Are you prepared to save even more?  Eww. I'm definitely not. (edit: just noticed, there's 4 unnecessary blue belts in there) RabbitWizard fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Jan 11, 2024 |
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Jan 11, 2024 09:31
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RabbitWizard posted:
That's not how belt speeds work. All of the blue belts here don't do anything (they could be yellow and it would change nothing), and you don't have enough input to feed 6 red belts. You've got 15x6 (90) in and 30x6 (180) out. The first image works because it's 15x12 (180) in and 30x6 (180) out. e: I guess if the yellow is supposed to be loaders it works, though that makes it unbalanced in the opposite direction. 45x6 (270) into 30x6 (180).
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Jan 11, 2024 10:41
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Darox posted:e: I guess if the yellow is supposed to be loaders it works, though that makes it unbalanced in the opposite direction. 45x6 (270) into 30x6 (180). I feel like the output (6x30) is the only relevant part, not what I pull from a warehouse/chest? Splitting 3 belts into 6 is much easier than 2 into 6. Also, that would need one more splitter, not sure if this will safe space. The blue stuff doing nothing in combination with red is correct.
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Jan 11, 2024 10:57
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Is there any way to see the engineers current run speed, mining speed, reach etc?
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Jan 11, 2024 15:54
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Yes, it's one of the buttons below the minimap e: at least it shows all current upgrades, no idea if the stats you want to see are there as well since those are added by mods
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Jan 11, 2024 17:25
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Reach isn't a vanilla stat because there are no upgrades. I believe mining speed is there from steel axe. I think run speed might be in the armor stats? IDK if any mods have base run speed upgrades, though.
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Jan 11, 2024 17:30
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K8.0 posted:Reach isn't a vanilla stat because there are no upgrades. I believe mining speed is there from steel axe. I think run speed might be in the armor stats? IDK if any mods have base run speed upgrades, though. QoL research includes one for base walking speed.
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Jan 11, 2024 18:22
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Today's FFF : bulking up 180/s throughput blue belts is going to be a lot. And 240? drat. I don't care for how the new belts look at all, though. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Jan 12, 2024 |
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Jan 12, 2024 14:14
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I'm glad for filters on every inserter now. Was a dumb distinction. 2.0 looking better and better.
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Jan 12, 2024 14:37
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K8.0 posted:drat. I don't care for how the new belts look at all, though. I'm going to blame that on video compression for now. They really need to rename it so the new inserters are called stack inserters and the green ones bulk inserters though. Makes no sense otherwise.
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Jan 12, 2024 14:50
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They should devise a way to borrow DSP's proliferation mechanic next. The stacker was a good start.
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Jan 12, 2024 15:06
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Proliferation is borrowed from Factorio modules. They don't need two versions of the same system.
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Jan 12, 2024 15:20
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Why not? Stack stacking stacks on stacks then beacon to the moon. Works for clickers. There's reasons not to, chiefly it'd make vanilla too busy, but it'd be a nice entity extension for mods which I think have largely stopped trying to do proliferator like stuff because of item id bloat.
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Jan 12, 2024 15:57
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That was a joke, but I think it would be fun to see if they could make proliferation a thing distinct from what modules offer. Also I'm prepared for dumb mods that let good stack to like +20 or even more.
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Jan 12, 2024 16:01
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I feel like the green belt, once it gets mixed in with factory buildings and inserters and power poles, will look too similar to yellow belt at a glance. Although I'm not sure you'd get into too many situations where you'd be upgrading straight from yellow to green, so maybe this isn't a real issue. (Also not sure if this causes colorblind problems, doing a white/light gray tier would work better imo)
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Jan 12, 2024 16:38
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Many mods have used green and purple as tier 4 & 5 belts. And it's 60/s for those green ones, same tier step up as the previous 3; 15, 30, 45, 60. This update is really focusing on improving stupid huge bases, problems solved by Factorio Extended Plus, just by adding additional tiers of belts and machines. 16K SPM was my biggest built with Factorio Extended and it was much smaller than my whole 21K vanilla base, which will have to be redone from scratch with this update. The factory must grow, or perhaps shrink (physically). This is what I made in Factorio Extended Plus to make Purple Belts... https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/s/UThJBKTcGr Majere fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jan 12, 2024 |
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Jan 12, 2024 17:41
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Doing more with less means you can do even more with more.
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Jan 12, 2024 17:44
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Yeah I was mostly saying that particular shade of green, combined with the grime/etc. overlays, makes it possibly problematic. It also just doesn't sit right with me because the other tiers of belts just seem to be looking "cleaner" as you go up and then this is extremely filthy and drab by comparison to blue belts.
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Jan 12, 2024 17:50
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It feels like logistical power creep, but if recipes scale up also it'll be a red queen situation where not too much effectively changes I think. I'm excited for it.
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Jan 12, 2024 18:19
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If they don't also scale up bots it gives more reasons to use belts, so that'll be interesting.
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Jan 12, 2024 18:23
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It's not going to be recipes scaling up, it's going to be 3.125 base speed q5 assembler 3s and +125% q5 speed 3s. There will be late game situations where even a single machine is difficult to feed without these changes. Interestingly, one thing bulk inserters do is almost require that you use bots to unload trains to get any sort of reasonable efficiency. Since an individual bulk inserter has much lower throughput than a stack inserter, there isn't a good way to go from the buffer chests your stack inserters are filling to your bulk inserters without using bots. A result of this will probably be that for smaller outposts, bulk inserters make no sense. Only when the physical space consumed by else becomes enormous will they start to become an ideal solution. Even then, you will need three blocks wide per belt to stack them, so in the train station area you will only save 25% space at best. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jan 12, 2024 |
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Jan 12, 2024 18:24
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I wonder if the filter inserter change is going to filter back to 1.x, it feels like a bigger mechanical change that isn't entirely compatible with existing builds. Not that I'm expecting to be able to use my old blueprints anyway, especially rails, but there's going to have to be some kind of migration tool to convert the old entities to the new ones (this doesn't seem difficult, since all of the 2.0 inserters have explicitly more capability). Or I wonder if there's going to be more changes coming that blow up the compatibility to a point where they'll just straight up say 1.x blueprints can't be used in 2.0. That doesn't seem like the kind of thing they'd do, historically, but I'm seeing a lot of "why stick to the old ways just because they're the old ways" in the FFFs.
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Jan 12, 2024 18:26
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Long-term everything is going to need to be redesigned. I think at this point they are fine with the consequences of that, and don't want to let it hold design back. Remember, all rail blueprints are getting blown up when 2.0 lands, because the current curved rail segments will become legacy and you won't be able to build more of them. Eventually they will be deprecated from the game entirely and they will just poof in your saves, so maybe a year or two into the expansion you won't even be able to load old saves without redoing a lot of train stuff or using a mod that re-adds them. You just aren't meant to port saves from 1.x to 2.x even though the game will allow it. There are too many changes that are too significant. And if you have to design new stuff, inevitably older blueprints will become obsoleted, even if the game still lets you place them and just has them break because of new/missing/changed entities. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jan 12, 2024 |
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Jan 12, 2024 18:31
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K8.0 posted:Since an individual bulk inserter has much lower throughput than a stack inserter. How did you come to that conclusion? The blog says bulk inserters have a slight advantage.
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Jan 12, 2024 18:45
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Looking at it again, maybe you're right. I think I misinterpreted some of what they were saying the first time through.
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Jan 12, 2024 19:24
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K8.0 posted:Looking at it again, maybe you're right. I think I misinterpreted some of what they were saying the first time through. It's a fair point though because they're improving bot logic as well so bots will probably remain more efficient overall.
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Jan 12, 2024 20:17
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Jan 12, 2024 23:49
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The new belt changes means there has to be improvements to train capacity coming too, right? Because otherwise it feels like this is going it outstrip train usage.
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Jan 13, 2024 05:01
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