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pmchem posted:IANAL but this is probably violating one or both employment contracts, this is maybe not great advice Contractual employment has consequences for terminating employment within the period of contractual obligation or failing to perform. Employers have hopped on a trend of saying they want the latitude to fire people at any time, which cuts both ways: people can overemploy and half-rear end without any liability beyond "they can fire you". Wages cannot be clawed back and all forms of deferred compensation (e.g. PTO) have to be liquidated and paid out immediately on termination. Overemployment is a reasonable reaction to employers stacking the deck in their favor. If you can handle it. I definitely can barely tolerate the responsibilities of one job.
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Jan 9, 2024 16:44
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FISHMANPET posted:A lot of people in SA poo poo on going into the office, because often times it is awful, but there are some of us who would actually prefer it, occasionally. You're not alone! I sure wish my org had an office near by. I'm sick of spending days upon days in my basement. This is the first place where I could get my own office--not a an open plan crap-- but I'm unfortunately about several hundred miles away from the said opportunity.  Man, I miss when I had my own business a decade ago. It was very stressful at times, but having my own space/studio did wonders for my QoL.
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Jan 9, 2024 16:58
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Overemployment is a reasonable reaction to employers stacking the deck in their favor. If you can handle it. I definitely can barely tolerate the responsibilities of one job. If this is true then RTO is a reasonable reaction to prevent it. If you're making good money I'd much rather people let others get those opportunities to move up rather than ruin the remote thing for everybody.
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Jan 9, 2024 18:42
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I’ve left my simultaneous jobs on my resume. Might be dumb, I’ve scored my current job with it like that, but also gotten some sideways glances over it too. Some fields might be fine with it, I can imagine a lot aren’t.
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Jan 10, 2024 00:09
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:and all forms of deferred compensation (e.g. PTO) have to be liquidated and paid out immediately on termination. Just a heads up, but that is not necessarily true in the US and is heavily dependent on the state and company policy. I'd go so far as to say the majority of states do not require PTO payouts.
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Jan 10, 2024 03:53
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I changed jobs 2-3 months ago and my old company wants me to consult on the project I used to work on for them, how do people negotiate rates for this? I made ~93k at my old position and 135k at my current one. I think if I were still there I'd say it would take me 2 weeks to do what they want, but probably half that in actual development time, but it's an integration so there would definitely be blocks while I wait on other people. I still like all the people at my old job so I'm not looking to play hardball or anything just get fairly compensated for my time.
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Jan 10, 2024 17:40
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As a starting point, take your equivalent hourly, I'd use current, then gross it up to account for: - benefits you'd have been getting but wouldn't consulting - some margin to account for this being a second job for you on top of first. - whatever you're comfortable with as a consulting fee on top - you're the expert you should be asking for more than you got paid before. If this puts you in a higher tax bracket you might even increase it to account for the marginal impact it has on your take-home.
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Jan 10, 2024 17:47
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I'd probably ask for $150/hr minimum and consider $200-300 if you suspect any pain points. You'll have to pay a higher tax rate for this, and they aren't paying for all the other stuff that comes with an employee so that money should go to you. You may want to check your employee handbook to make sure new job is kosher with this. If your in the same industry this could bite you back. Jenkl posted:If this puts you in a higher tax bracket you might even increase it to account for the marginal impact it has on your take-home. This isn't really a thing, it won't impact your existing take home, only the additional.
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Jan 10, 2024 18:02
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That's what I meant - if the additional income is in a higher marginal bracket it isn't, hour for hour, worth the same as current job. Not trying to say more income would lead to greater taxes on the current salary.
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Jan 10, 2024 19:10
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Lockback posted:If this is true then RTO is a reasonable reaction to prevent it. If you're making good money I'd much rather people let others get those opportunities to move up rather than ruin the remote thing for everybody. It's a reaction. Overemploying saps more of a person selling their labor's time, gives them less time to do non-work things, and likely means they'll be spending less time on either job, increasing their risk of getting fired. Office mandating (return or otherwise) requires office space for all of the humans, the ongoing costs of that space (even if you don't rent, you have to power it, provide internet, manage that on prem internet, etc), but most crucially, you are basically signing up to cut an entire part of the labor pool out of your workforce. Working in an office doesn't make financial sense for pretty much any employee (which is not to say some don't like it), and many who understand this refuse to work in an office. An office mandate basically means you're going to be self-selecting for some portion of the workforce who's willing to make inferior financial decisions. Depends on what you're doing employing people, but calling it reasonable depends on what kind of people you need to hire.
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Jan 10, 2024 19:36
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Lockback posted:I'd probably ask for $150/hr minimum and consider $200-300 if you suspect any pain points. You'll have to pay a higher tax rate for this, and they aren't paying for all the other stuff that comes with an employee so that money should go to you. You may want to check your employee handbook to make sure new job is kosher with this. If your in the same industry this could bite you back. That rate sounds so high, but I don't actually need a second job or anything, so I guess I should just aim high and if they say no that's their problem.
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Jan 10, 2024 19:57
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M. Night Skymall posted:I changed jobs 2-3 months ago and my old company wants me to consult on the project I used to work on for them, how do people negotiate rates for this? I made ~93k at my old position and 135k at my current one. I think if I were still there I'd say it would take me 2 weeks to do what they want, but probably half that in actual development time, but it's an integration so there would definitely be blocks while I wait on other people. I still like all the people at my old job so I'm not looking to play hardball or anything just get fairly compensated for my time. The federal General Services Administration (GSA) has an online database of contractor rates that can be filtered by field, years of experience, and education level: https://buy.gsa.gov/pricing/qr/mas?...t=current_price I've used this in the past to negotiate consulting rates.
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Jan 10, 2024 19:59
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:It's a reaction. It still blows my mind so much that in this environment my prior employer moved to a brand new office they had built that is without a doubt the most soulless office building I have ever seen. Paid a ton and have the absolute worst space ever that your employees will all hate.
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Jan 10, 2024 20:10
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M. Night Skymall posted:That rate sounds so high, but I don't actually need a second job or anything, so I guess I should just aim high and if they say no that's their problem. It really isn't.I guess you could go lower if you really really really think it'll be a cakewalk but this kind of work tends to be more painful than I think you're thinking.
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Jan 10, 2024 20:41
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M. Night Skymall posted:That rate sounds so high, but I don't actually need a second job or anything, so I guess I should just aim high and if they say no that's their problem. If they want you to work in your off-hours, they can pay you for it.
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Jan 10, 2024 21:36
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M. Night Skymall posted:That rate sounds so high, but I don't actually need a second job or anything, so I guess I should just aim high and if they say no that's their problem.
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Jan 10, 2024 21:52
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Lockback posted:It really isn't.I guess you could go lower if you really really really think it'll be a cakewalk but this kind of work tends to be more painful than I think you're thinking. Also, you need a contract, and if you've never done this kind of thing before then you very much need a lawyer who has.
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Jan 11, 2024 00:56
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Eric the Mauve posted:Also, you need a contract, and if you've never done this kind of thing before then you very much need a lawyer who has. It's at a university so not likely to get screwed in that manner. Although I talked to them about it some more and I'm much more likely to get screwed in that it's not a consulting gig and they want me to apply for a W2 temp position, so I suspect they're going to offer me my old position back but at way less hours and no benefits, but the same rate, and I'm going to have to laugh and say no. Which is kind of unfortunate because the service I used to run doesn't work now and they can't send out patient results..sort of, but I'm not working weekends for 40% less than I make at my current job. Anyway, I appreciate all the responses and I'll keep it in mind so I don't agree to work for peanuts because I feel bad about the situation they're in.
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Jan 11, 2024 15:06
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M. Night Skymall posted:Although I talked to them about it some more and I'm much more likely to get screwed in that it's not a consulting gig and they want me to apply for a W2 temp position Tell them to get hosed.
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Jan 11, 2024 15:12
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Eric the Mauve posted:Tell them to get hosed. Yeah, this isn't consulting. They realized they hosed up and had a gap after you left and want you to fix it without paying consultant rates. Too bad for them.
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Jan 11, 2024 15:27
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Eric the Mauve posted:Tell them to get hosed. Not emptyquoting. It’s your spare time, make them pay whatever you think that time is worth. Since it’s such specialist knowledge only you have, you can make them bleed for it. After all they have been underpaying you for a long time. Now it’s time to recoup some of those lost wages.
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Jan 11, 2024 16:41
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The Puppy Bowl posted:The u in union stands for you. Got to be the change you want to see and all that. I've never had a union job before, and I'm gonna necro this post to see if I can get some more info on this sort of thing. I interviewed with my local school district for a job and got the call from the guy I interviewed with that they were going to recommend me to HR for hiring, so, that's cool. The money they listed on the ad is trash, and I was thinking well, that's the gig, public schools, kinda gotta deal with it. But perhaps I should reach out to the union ( https://ieanea.org/ ) and say hey, it looks like I'm getting X job with Y school district, can you give me an idea of what the offer is going to be, and what's negotiable? That's actually a thing?
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Jan 11, 2024 18:48
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Do it. Worst thing they can do is not tell you and you're no worse off.
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Jan 11, 2024 20:51
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My annual review meeting at a small consulting firm is taking place later today and I’ve been told in writing that I’ll be getting a salary increase from 60k to 70k (~15% increase) and a much better title. That said, 70k is lower than the market rate for the role and lower than what my other colleagues are getting at the same title. We do have a decent bonus structure - up to 10% of salary in performance bonuses and a commission for new business brought in. While I’ve earned the full 10% performance bonuses in my two years here, I haven’t successfully brought in new business. Should I ask to get a bump to say, 80k or is that looking a gift horse in the mouth? I want to maintain the good relationship I have with my employer and I’m not sure if it’s better to just use this better title to seek more compensation elsewhere. e: More context - I’ve got an interview at a public sector org next week, but the max salary they could do is 75k and it would require a significant move. If I get an offer from there, should I use that as the opportunity to ask for a raise instead? Porstuve fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jan 16, 2024 |
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Jan 16, 2024 21:52
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You can try to ask for more with the promo, but don't hold your breath, and do it very tactfully with data so you don't ruffle feathers. Typically promotions don't scale to market rates, even though you're a known quantity that has obviously been performing at the next level. It's just how most of corporate America works unfortunately. If you really want to get that bump in comp you'll likely have to go interview with some other gigs and get some real offers, and then either jump ship and take one, or use it as leverage to negotiate a raise. And if you do the latter you have to be earnestly willing to jump ship if it goes badly. Guinness fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jan 16, 2024 |
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Jan 16, 2024 22:38
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If they are giving you are bump "out of the goodness of their hearts" then asking for more probably won't go down well. I would say thank you, take the new job title and interview elsewhere with it. If you get an offer for 80 then you have options. Tldr: BATNA should be improved before entering negotiation.
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Jan 16, 2024 22:38
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So a couple things. If you don't want that public sector job, don't use that as leverage. There's mixed opinions on using another offer to try to get a raise, but you'll get unanimous agreement that if you say "I got this job offer at 75k, would you match it?" and they say "No", you have essentially ceded any further bargaining ground and I'd expect no further raises during your time there. If you are getting a raise from 60 to 70, the day they are handing it to you is well past the time you could try to negotiate it. So take the 70 (It's not a gift horse, you are trading your labor for money) but think now on the best way to negotiate to 80. These are two separate events. I don't know details but it sounds like you probably are past the window when you'd expect an additional raise soon, so if you want to stay here you need to think longer term. Which brings me to my third point. Again, I don't know the details but would you rather have this job at 70 or work somewhere else for a more market rate? Because I think that's literally the choice. They are showing what they see as your value (and, tbh, bringing in new business is pretty important so you might have ceiling), and now you have to make decisions. But I don't see you saying "I want to work somewhere else" or "I want to stay and am willing to sacrifice some money to do so". That is going to be important for you to come to terms with. In general, a raise like that is something that will take time so I would probably say you want to have a conversation now with your manager about your salary expectations, though if your getting the raise imminently maybe wait so they don't pull it back if they decide you're a flight risk.
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Jan 16, 2024 22:39
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A 15% internal payrise is pretty good, so maybe this review is time to say things like "what can I do to bring more value to the company?" and start planning out your advancement path.
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Jan 17, 2024 00:13
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Thank you all for the advice, this was very helpful going into my review yesterday. I spoke with my direct supervisor and a partner at the firm and opted not to push the money issue. While I would obviously like a higher base salary, I am satisfied with the new title and hope to leverage it into landing another gig in the future.Lockback posted:They are showing what they see as your value (and, tbh, bringing in new business is pretty important so you might have ceiling), and now you have to make decisions. Arquinsiel posted:A 15% internal payrise is pretty good, so maybe this review is time to say things like "what can I do to bring more value to the company?" and start planning out your advancement path. I am a little embarassed about that fact that I haven't successfully brought in new business. While I was told in the review that there's no implicit pressure to do at this point, I'm sure there'll be some headscratching if I don't manage to secure anything in the next few months/year. I did say that I intend to refocus my efforts on this front as a demonstration of career growth (and of course the potential commission doesn't hurt either). Guinness posted:If you really want to get that bump in comp you'll likely have to go interview with some other gigs and get some real offers, and then either jump ship and take one, or use it as leverage to negotiate a raise. And if you do the latter you have to be earnestly willing to jump ship if it goes badly. I think this will be my approach going forward. I had an interview with a competitor late last year that didn't pan out, but the title wouldn't have been as good as this one so  (admittedly the salary may have been more, not sure about that). I'll accrue some time under my new title, but at some point I will want something that pays better - life is very expensive right now.CancerCakes posted:If they are giving you are bump "out of the goodness of their hearts" then asking for more probably won't go down well. I definitely believe have earned the salary increase, but point taken. I wasn't prepared to make the case for a more substantial increase yesterday so it looks like a new role entirely is the best path forward. My coworker is pretty adamant I should ask for an increase even now, but I really don't think it's a great look after not raising it as an issue yesterday or today for that matter. Time to pick up more advice from the Resume ultrathread!
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Jan 18, 2024 02:30
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That all sounds like you’re being very reasonable. Congrats on the promo in the short term, and good luck on further career growth in the long term!
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Jan 18, 2024 02:48
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So you should give it some space but then talk to your manager about it, and go into it knowing your manager cannot just push a button and change your salary. Have a solid plan and argument involving your value and the market. The first conversation you probably won't get any useful information but schedule a follow-up. If you get pushed back, that should be a message your path is probably out. You can always leave and try to come back later, honestly I feel like that is often the easiest way to get on a better track if you like the place.
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Jan 18, 2024 04:00
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Deathlove posted:I've never had a union job before, and I'm gonna necro this post to see if I can get some more info on this sort of thing. I interviewed with my local school district for a job and got the call from the guy I interviewed with that they were going to recommend me to HR for hiring, so, that's cool. The money they listed on the ad is trash, and I was thinking well, that's the gig, public schools, kinda gotta deal with it. But perhaps I should reach out to the union ( https://ieanea.org/ ) and say hey, it looks like I'm getting X job with Y school district, can you give me an idea of what the offer is going to be, and what's negotiable? That's actually a thing? You can probably google 'ieanea [who's hiring you] contract pdf' and find the actual contract with the pay steps.
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Jan 19, 2024 19:30
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Lockback posted:So you should give it some space but then talk to your manager about it, and go into it knowing your manager cannot just push a button and change your salary. Guinness posted:That all sounds like you’re being very reasonable. Congrats on the promo in the short term, and good luck on further career growth in the long term!
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Jan 21, 2024 03:53
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Not sure where to put this, but my wife has a meeting with the hiring managers boss on Tuesday, and this came up in conversation So, we are, ugh, middle aged, I guess. 40. More or less. Old. My wife has had a wildly successful career in management, due to, not sure why. Anyways What's the over/under on taking an important new job, but knowing you might be pregnant? I say might because things are always pretty hairy north of 35, and especially north of 38. As a non management person, it's on management to deal with it when you get pregnant. What is the prevailing wisdom on a manager joining the team knowing they're pregnant? This would be... A pretty huge step up for her career, probably a 30% raise if she got the offer. She would need to take maternity leave within 8 months(?) of joining the company. Curious what the hive mind thinks about this kind of thing. Current job is meh, been there almost 3 years but pay and career is mostly sideways for the next 5+ years due to a massive reorg. Does she tell big boss about the pregnancy, or do we wait and see, and also see about the job offer? The new company is doing pretty good and are probably pretty family friendly, but the new job would be game changing for her and a big step up. Any and all feedback welcome.
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Feb 12, 2024 09:35
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Take the job, don't tell them until you have to for the purposes of claiming any benefits or entitlements you need to. If you tell them before there is a risk another candidate has a particular skill that she doesn't that all of a sudden is essential. If the new company sells things to human beings it is in its interest that human beings continue to procreate, and occasionally this will mean it loses out in the short term. What it is gaining is an increased level of diversity in the workplace and what sounds like a very talented candidate who wouldn't be available otherwise. Hopefully they appreciate that, but sometimes they are short sighted. So get everything signed before hand. Finally, you don't owe the company you work for anything. You certainly don't owe the company you don't work for yet anything. Take the job, get that dollar dollar and when the time comes enjoy your time with your new baby!
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Feb 12, 2024 11:27
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CancerCakes posted:
I mean, yeah I could have written this paragraph We have a mortgage and in her industry people talk you get a reputation. 330 million people but industries are pretty incestuous it's easy to piss off a lot of people. In her line of work taking a "down round" is the difference between saving for retirement vs getting the mortgage paid I already know what reddit is going to tell me
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Feb 12, 2024 11:43
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You said she "might be" pregnant. If you don't know 100% then you don't say poo poo. Hell, even if you are sure, IMO you don't say poo poo before she's actually being racked by every day morning sickness she can't hide anymore. Because, as you say, things are hairy with pregnancy past 40. Two things. One, pregnancy is legally protected from discrimination, as you probably know. Even if she's 6 months along she has no obligation to disclose it. Now her reputation within an insular industry is a legitimate concern nonethless. But two: she is awesome. She is 100% worth putting up with maternity leave for. And if the worst happens and they reorg her out while she's out on FMLA, she will get a handsome payoff that will more than cover the gap until she finds another similar role. There is no legal or ethical obligation for her to disclose before physiologically forced to, and I believe the practicalities also favor not disclosing. Pissing this particular company off is a risk worth taking, both low probability and at best moderate severity.
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Feb 12, 2024 13:01
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Hadlock posted:Not sure where to put this, but my wife has a meeting with the hiring managers boss on Tuesday, and this came up in conversation secure the bag.
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Feb 12, 2024 14:23
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Hadlock posted:She would need to take maternity leave within 8 months(?) of joining the company. Definitely check what the maternity benefits are and when they kick in. Not as a bargaining chip, just to know what you are getting in to. Some places start from day one, my current place it's after one year. I know California requires partial pay for a large number of weeks, many states it's just unpaid FMLA.
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Feb 12, 2024 15:06
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Telling a potential employer that you’re a member of a protected class actually also puts them in legal jeopardy. It creates an incentive for them to find a legitimate reason not to hire you so they can avoid a potential tough legal situation. I worked at a very large tech company and we were taught a specific phrase to say if someone brought up something like that (and of course to never ask about it ourselves). So yeah, do not tell them.
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