|
I don't know if I'm board with reading the finale as such a tight 1:1 metaphor in the way that Reddit post is going for, but I do think it's exploring a lot of the same vibes/themes that have been a central part of the show from the beginning. In addition to the misguided attempts to help someone, you're also getting a bunch of obliviousness to/active denial of the reality of the situation that's happening around Asher/Whitney/Dougie. And after nine episodes of grappling with the possibility that there's something supernatural going on with this random child he met because of a mispackaged prepared meal and a piece of chicken in a bathroom, you get something starkly, undeniably supernatural happening to Asher, and his response is to assume something weird is happening with the house or the weather.
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 09:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 10:33 |
|
|
Yeah I agree with this. I think I also see the floating in general as being a reflection of Whitney’s subconscious rejection of Asher - while she accepted him due to the commitment he displayed at the end of ep 9 she still has all the same issues with him that she did previously but was pushing them down so hard that they came out in him being literally pushed upwards and away from her. Obv could be nonsense but that’s what I got from it anyway. I’ll have to do some more thinking to see how I feel about this finale as an ending to this specific season of television but just in itself I thought it was very funny and unsettling and well-made
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 10:25
|
|
|
tv is art sometimes 10/10 no notes
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 11:30
|
|
|
Escobarbarian posted:Yeah I agree with this. I think I also see the floating in general as being a reflection of Whitney’s subconscious rejection of Asher - while she accepted him due to the commitment he displayed at the end of ep 9 she still has all the same issues with him that she did previously but was pushing them down so hard that they came out in him being literally pushed upwards and away from her. Obv could be nonsense but that’s what I got from it anyway. Whitney basically communicates this with a facial expression alone in the initial bedroom scene. Then she stares into the camera later on.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 11:36
|
|
|
Asher said I'll be whatever you want me to be, and then evidently she wanted him gone. That explanation on reddit seems a lot smarter, but I'm a little dumb and that's what I got out of it at a surface level.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 12:32
|
|
|
Lots of fun stuff I think I was just not down with the pacing of jt. I was downright bored at certain points. The Reddit theory makes sense. the beginning made me start to think they salvaged the marriage. Asher seemed to be acting more normal than ever and she seemed genuinely concerned with him not being there for the pregnancy, unless the go-bag comment was just selfishness. Obviously out the window when after birth she didn’t really care to answer about getting Asher. I just feel like some of the threads were a waste of time and if there was any goal to subvert my expectations like, great? Edit: I did rush my viewing of it to get it in before work and I think it’s becoming more obvious to me that was a bad idea. The Dave fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jan 12, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 14:05
|
|
|
I thought it was a poo poo ending tbh, even though it was pretty funny with how bonkers it was. I thought the show had been dragging for the last few eps though and had been hoping the finale would tie it all together and make the slower eps worth it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 14:21
|
|
|
I think it’s a good ending to the story of Asher and Whitney’s marriage but not necessarily a good one to the story of Flipanthropy/Green Queen and the effect the couples’ hypocrisy had on the community. Also yeah this season maybe should have been 8 episodes, it really span its wheels quite a bit in the middle
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 14:23
|
|
|
I cannot believe the entire episode was focused on what it focused on. This finale feels like a bet Nathan made with someone. 10/10 will never watch again but loving loved the show hahahaha
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 14:31
|
|
|
In hindsight, this was a bit too formulaic and mundane. Whitney gets freaked out and starts having contractions and rushes to the hospital. When the baby arrives Asher doesn't show up because he's fully focused on his personal problems. So many stories work like this.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 14:39
|
|
|
cant cook creole bream posted:In hindsight, this was a bit too formulaic and mundane. I'm kind of up in the air in how I feel about it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 14:40
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 14:41
|
|
|
can't believe so many people liked that. it was weird and boring actually.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 15:06
|
|
|
I didn't think that ending worked. I probably would have thought the ending landed better if the season was half as long or if I could have binged it in a long weekend.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 15:26
|
|
|
Asher said it himself that he is The Curse. Especially once the baby became real and was eminent, Asher is genuinely willing to go all in on Whitney and the little one and whatever it takes to give them their best lives. Unfortunately that means that the "The Curse" has to be lifted (literally) and Asher has to go away forever. Maybe the air was getting thin, but seems liked he might have come to a bit of acceptance at the end. A little bit of monkey's paw style twist.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 15:49
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:can't believe so many people liked that. it was weird and boring actually. I don't think I "liked" it but it was in theme with how bizarre the show was. I think Nathan just wanted to do an art project
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 15:50
|
|
|
I was expecting and was disappointed when we did not get Asher getting a faceful of chicken while flying into the stratosphere, or maybe show a bunch of frozen chicken floating with him in space
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 15:56
|
|
|
Asher smiling silently for three minutes on the cooking show before the meatball/baby comment was excruciating.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 16:01
|
|
|
Fantastic final episode.alf_pogs posted:tv is art sometimes
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 16:04
|
|
|
snoremac posted:Asher smiling silently for three minutes on the cooking show before the meatball/baby comment was excruciating. And the extra long shot of them just smiling in front of the camera like hostages after was amazing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 16:05
|
|
|
I don't know the right labeling but I love 'behind-the-scenes' type moments in stories so I was really excited by the theories about the camera angles and the seemingly fourth wall break. I can totally understand using it as a style choice, but when they did that shot of Nathan through the peephole and then hiding, to me, that takes it from a style choice to part of the narrative. It bummed me out none of that was actually paid off and it really was just a style. [spoiler] I did lol at someone on reddit that said [spoiler]Whitney is the Green Queen and she recycled Asher.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 16:07
|
|
|
Wow, yeah no one was going to guess that ending. I thought I had figured it out around the time that Asher was in the tree. Thought this was some kind of extended metaphorical dream sequence of the birth of the baby. And it really seemed to be that for awhile. The baby having trouble getting out, Asher fearfully holding onto the tree until the firefighter has to cut into the branch to free him/just as Whit is getting cut open to get the baby out, and then him flying into the sky is the baby being born. But it really wasn't. Or maybe that was part of it, but not all of it. There's a lot of meaning and metaphors that apply to Asher's predicament that DO resonate with themes from the show, but it's hard to square that with the truth that it's not played as a dreamy metaphor but as the stark reality of what is happening in this real, grounded (Ha!) world. It seems that we're supposed to take it, metaphor and symbolism aside, that a man got untethered from gravity in a real, tangible, literal way. It's interesting and I do like it, but it also feels like a prank and the real finale will be next week. That's what I'd like in a perfect world. I'm glad this episode exists and it does tie into the rest of the show in interesting ways, but I would also like an ending that tied up all or some of the plots and themes of the rest of the show. Also the Rachael Ray bitwas so realistic and the most excruciating scene of the entire season for me. edit: oh yeah! and the Jewish prayer/gift scene was so fake I was sure they were playing for another camera that we were unaware of. That felt entirely like a fake and scripted scene like a well done version of when they tried to make a cute instagram. It's baffling how that didn't led to anything and was maybe them being genuine? 1glitch0 fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Jan 12, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 16:13
|
|
|
That was, by far, the worst episode of Rachael Ray I have ever seen
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 16:17
|
|
|
Also that Reddit poster has a good read on it, and I look forward to pretending I got it immediately whenever I talk to people about it. I liked how they kinda pre-apologized for this with Asher's "Art is ... like sometimes it's hard to explain what you're going for and uhhhhh.... I mean it's art so ..." I thought mid-episode that they were going to wind up designing a home that allows Asher to live on the ceiling and get a reality show about the ups and downs of living up and down. PostNouveau fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jan 12, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 16:19
|
|
|
PostNouveau posted:I thought mid-episode that they were going to wind up designing a home that allows Asher to live on the ceiling and get a reality show about the ups and downs of living up and down. "Coming this fall, 'We're In Over Our Heads, well at least Asher is'
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 16:39
|
|
|
at first I was kind of surprised that it wasn't ultimately a hosed up dream they were having of trying to escape as they suffocated to death in their hermetically sealed home then when it became clear that wasn't the case, I thought Asher was going to be trapped there forever and become a reality show carnival attraction in a prison of Whitney's design. I think just falling into the sky is a preferable alternative to that scenario. gonna have to stew on this a bit more, but I liked it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 16:49
|
|
|
One thing that's interesting is Whitney is pretty over her self-delusion in this episode. Asher has to remind her the money from her parents was a "loan". He has to remind her she's happy when she makes other people happy and make a hamfisted point about art when she expresses jealousy over Cara. So Asher because he's doing everything to satisfy an image of herself which is no longer useful to her (and actually a financial burden) is digging his own sky grave.
snoremac fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jan 12, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 16:56
|
|
|
I loved their plan for the baby's room. Just keep the kid in a pressurized container its whole life while we pretend our passive house means something important.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 18:10
|
|
|
As soon as that was introduced, I was kind of expecting someone to explode in a pressure failure.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 18:11
|
|
|
PostNouveau posted:I loved their plan for the baby's room. Just keep the kid in a pressurized container its whole life while we pretend our passive house means something important. I was expecting the baby to die in the room because they couldn't open it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 18:28
|
|
|
That finale was so loving wild lmao 
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 18:33
|
|
|
Lister posted:There were definitely more obvious jokes in this episode than most of the last few episodes. For how strange it was, I didn't understand how it served the plot while watching it. The reddit post that was linked above probably got it though. The biggest theme of the whole show was trying to "help" people in ways that don't help them or actively hurt them. It happens over and over throughout. I don't know about the cultural statement on it, but showing asher in need of help and the help others give him only making things worse and worse totally lines up with the theme. Not to mention, Asher’s codependency is always trying to ‘help’ Whitney when in fact the best thing for him to do would be to set boundaries and treat her like an adult with accountability. It’s a series about enabling-behaviours and perpetuating cycles of trauma.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 18:48
|
|
|
I was just talking to a friend about an extremely cringe terrible band and I couldn't help but think of them during the finale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMXESlny4-I
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 19:04
|
|
|
Gravity reversing and falling into the sky was one of my weird nonsensical childhood fears, so this was actually quite unsettling to watch.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 19:09
|
|
|
xbilkis posted:I don't know if I'm board with reading the finale as such a tight 1:1 metaphor in the way that Reddit post is going for, but I do think it's exploring a lot of the same vibes/themes that have been a central part of the show from the beginning. In addition to the misguided attempts to help someone, you're also getting a bunch of obliviousness to/active denial of the reality of the situation that's happening around Asher/Whitney/Dougie. And after nine episodes of grappling with the possibility that there's something supernatural going on with this random child he met because of a mispackaged prepared meal and a piece of chicken in a bathroom, you get something starkly, undeniably supernatural happening to Asher, and his response is to assume something weird is happening with the house or the weather. I didn't catch that, but you're totally right. At the start of the scene, I was thinking to myself "wait, is this something that they know can happen? Did something like this happen before?" But no, he's just trying to come up with ways that might solve the problem and are total guesses. I don't know what meaning there is behind being so logical in the face of something supernatural when before he was so believing of stuff that was probably a coincidence. 1glitch0 posted:Wow, yeah no one was going to guess that ending. I didn't pick up on the chainsaw/C-section, but Asher did seem to be in the fetal position as he was going into space. Maybe it was just a parallel between leaving the world and entering the world. I kind of thought they might have been presenting the idea that he's being reincarnated as his own son, although that idea is a little too far out there. For the Jewish stuff, I don't know enough about the religion or culture. Safdie and Fielder both use Judaism in their work regularly, and I do wonder if there's something in there that relates to what the show is saying that's going over my head since it's predominantly featured several times in the show.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 19:13
|
|
|
wizardofloneliness posted:Gravity reversing and falling into the sky was one of my weird nonsensical childhood fears, so this was actually quite unsettling to watch.  It's good when your phobias are stuff like that rather than something a bit more likely.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 19:15
|
|
|
wizardofloneliness posted:Gravity reversing and falling into the sky was one of my weird nonsensical childhood fears, so this was actually quite unsettling to watch. I can't be sure it was on purpose, but they name dropped Falling Up, a poem and title of a collection by Shel Silverstein I tripped on my shoelace And I fell up— Up to the roof tops, Up over town, Up past the tree tops, Up over the mountains, Up where the colors Blend into the sounds. But it got me so dizzy When I looked around, I got sick to my stomach And I threw down.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 19:23
|
|
|
Lister posted:I didn't catch that, but you're totally right. At the start of the scene, I was thinking to myself "wait, is this something that they know can happen? Did something like this happen before?" But no, he's just trying to come up with ways that might solve the problem and are total guesses. I don't know what meaning there is behind being so logical in the face of something supernatural when before he was so believing of stuff that was probably a coincidence. I think it’s less of a literal reincarnation than a symbolic one symbolizing the cycle of codependency continuing, with the totally-dependent adult baby Asher being replaced with the literal baby. I think that The Curse uses interpersonal codependency to illustrate how selfish and self-serving it actually is to totally sacrifice yourself for a cause you don’t really believe in or understand. Just like Asher never really saw or understood Whitney, he just projected his own egoic needs onto her. Whitney is punished also, because she does not enjoy being depended upon and now has to raise another Asher
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 19:35
|
|
|
Real post on this one. I felt pretty let down by the ending. I think the series would have been better suited with a different ending and this episode being released as a movie. There are too many threads that were opened and not resolved in any meaningful way. I kind of feel like they wasted my time with so many misdirects that basically the whole series is a prelude to a tangentially related fantasy movie about reluctance to becoming a parent. I don't understand why Asher flies away like a mythical figure, it's like the writers are saying only a divine intervention can remove the gentrifiers. All the things that seemed to be hinting about others doing in the background at by the voyeurism and mysterious shots are dismissed as nothing. It is not in line with the rest of the show being about curses being in the mind. All of a sudden, they are real. I found the minor characters stories more interesting and thought the overall narrative was really neglected for an unexpected ending. I didn't understand Abshir in the final episode, where were his kids? Who as that guy in Abshir's house? Why even add that part in with how the back half went? Fernando, Phoebe, Whitney's parents, and even Dougie feel unfinished to me. Cara got a satisfying enough ending to me with her interaction with Whitney at the massage parlor. I guess I don't get what they were going for or what they were trying to say with this series. Any Q/A's about the whole series with Fielder/Safdie out yet?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 19:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 10:33 |
|
|
there's supposed to be a Q&A screening happening with Safdie somewhere today
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2024 19:49
|
|
