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https://www.macrumors.com/2024/01/11/kuo-vision-pro-sellout-likely/ Apparently it's only gonna be 80k units at launch. edit: and only in the USA
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Jan 12, 2024 15:45
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The Grumbles posted:https://www.macrumors.com/2024/01/11/kuo-vision-pro-sellout-likely/ that's $280,000,000 of headsets lol
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Jan 12, 2024 16:03
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SCheeseman posted:There isn't a single application where phones would work better than an AR headset, outside of taking selfies. Though you could just put a little wireless camera on the end of a stick I guess. Making phone calls. But seriously I think you're really trying to apply this to every day life in a way that the average person wouldn't. You don't need a MR headset to cook. You don't need it to measure one cup of flour. I use my phone just fine while cooking. If my hands are dirty, I will wash them, something I do like half a dozen times anyways. I don't need cameras to measure things, rulers and tape measures are much better. Sure it might be good for ballparking a distance but for any type of real precision you can use a tape measure. Working on a human body or some aircraft is one thing, but nobody is going to watch a cooking video with a headset on while cooking. Working on 3D projects sounds incredibly cool with MR though. Again, I have folded laundry with Quest 3 on and it's fundamentally the same as having my phone sitting on the bed beside me. I have prepped veggies for dinner with Quest too. 90% of my attention is focused on what my hands are doing, and I'm basically listening to whatever episode of Simpsons or ATHF. Try loading the dishwasher with a video in front of your face, it's not really doable or enjoyable.
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Jan 12, 2024 17:49
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quote:Try loading the dishwasher with a video in front of your face, it's not really doable or enjoyable Correct: if you imagine that the only way to do a thing is the worst way possible, it’s a bad idea. How about this: the cooking video is attached to the backsplash above your stove, a place you could never put a display, but you can with MR. And when you turn to work at the sink, it’s behind that also. It migrates to half a dozen preselected locations you do like, without actually having displays there. People already sprinkle tvs through their homes, for better or for worse, but MR could accommodate that with zero actual displays, in places they couldn’t actually exist. Like, I absolutely abhor the “tv on the mantel” thing, but what if my fireplace itself could just become a display whenever I wanted?
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Jan 12, 2024 17:55
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e: double post from pos phone
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Jan 12, 2024 23:18
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Bad Munki posted:Correct: if you imagine that the only way to do a thing is the worst way possible, it’s a bad idea. Good examples, I already do something like this when I play VR. I have my Android messages page up in a Chrome browser window, in addition to FB messenger, so if I'm playing a game and my watch buzzes, I can quickly flip to MR with a button, and have a projection of my monitor "beyond" the wall I charge my VR stuff on, and a bluetooth keyboard there. I also have a TV in the room past that, and can effectively juggle two different computers at the same time, one in reality and the other being projected on my vision, in addition to VR and responding to messages. I'm not one of those dorks that wants to wear VR in McDonalds or even on the couch next to a partner, but I think there is a ton of potential in the MR market for the future.
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Jan 12, 2024 23:59
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Al! posted:god wait didnt the 360 have some sort of keyboard you could work with just a controller (without having to hunt and peck the right key)   You could still plug your headset into it too. It was great for some advance trolling in certain games. Used it a lot in 360 GTA Online. Bust out an in-game text message like it's nothing to distract a player the kill them when they're slowly typing back.
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Jan 13, 2024 00:04
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Croccers posted:Yes and it was amazing i was thinking more of a digital keyboard but that looks incredible lol. like a 360 controller melded with a blackberry
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Jan 13, 2024 00:10
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TIP posted:that's $280,000,000 of headsets lol Setting expectations like this is a great way to turn a mildly successful launch into a really uncomfortable annual SEC filing.
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Jan 13, 2024 00:54
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Beastie posted:Making phone calls. I'd prefer not to have to hold a phone to make a call. There's BT headsets, but then you're wearing something anyway. Speakerphone, but you lose privacy and audio quality. You don't need to use a HMD instead of a tape measure any more than you need a calculator when you have an abacus, but the convenience of being able to point at something, then another, then another, getting sub-mm accurate measurements without having to stop to write, resulting in a literal point cloud of data that could be exported or brought directly into a calculator app? That's perhaps only moderately useful to the layman, but I could see it becoming invaluable to professionals. Consider this: you draw a line between two points and it automatically puts a dot between the center of them, the amount of times this would have been useful to me around the house would be a pretty damned high number. How easy it it do make an accurate bezier curve with a tape measure? You don't need a tablet to cook any more than you need a book, but people use tablets and they use books. Video recipes/tutorials aren't niche, or you can throw something else on the virtual screen like a video podcast or whatever. I've watched a youtube video while cooking on my Quest 2. It was awesome, except for all the parts that you would expect to suck. Headset is too heavy, passthrough is absolutely terrible, the UX and general window management on Quest is a bit of a disaster. My attention wasn't 90% poking at the food though, I had enough down time to watch youtube essays, which was more enjoyable than listening to a podcast due to the visual element. I needed to wash my hands less (and dry them), which is a benefit, needing to do something less always is. I did the dishes afterwards, where I put the virtual display up and to the side. It was fine, turns out the video doesn't need to be in front of your face, you can put it wherever you want. Part of the perks of using virtual displays. idk. Your post has real "my nokia is just fine and no one needs smartphones" energy. Yeah, sure, but everyone bought and uses smartphones anyway. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 01:49
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SCheeseman posted:I think it'll take quite a few generations and considerable weight and size shrinks before AR glasses see widespread adoption, but given that... I don't think anyone would argue against the idea that something that was as easy to wear as a pair of glasses wouldn't supplant pretty much all other screens, but until things get that convenient, there are huge tradeoffs in using a headset to get those abilities That said, for the VR applications that headsets already enable, the most interesting ones also have a bunch of tradeoffs, but they're the kinds of things that better technology actually won't be able to improve on - VR requires a decent amount of real life space, and to do the more physical games, you end up getting tired and sweaty. But all of those factors are true no matter what level of technology you have; even if you could use a pair of glasses instead of a headset, moving around a bunch would still make you tired and sweaty I think the new use cases that are interesting that the tech enables can already be done today, and the boring screen replacement stuff is still way off, technologically
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Jan 13, 2024 02:45
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Croccers posted:Yes and it was amazing It didn’t really affect the controller comfort in any way either and went on there super securely. Really well designed little thing.
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Jan 13, 2024 03:38
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The Lethal Company VR mod releases later today. Prepare to cower in a corner and scream like a terrified child while you hear skittering and stomping in the next corridor over, only in VR now... 
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Jan 13, 2024 05:06
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Neddy Seagoon posted:The Lethal Company VR mod releases later today. Prepare to cower in a corner and scream like a terrified child while you hear skittering and stomping in the next corridor over, only in VR now... I look forward to getting my neck snapped and body dragged away, in VR
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Jan 13, 2024 05:42
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njsykora posted:It didn’t really affect the controller comfort in any way either and went on there super securely. Really well designed little thing.
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Jan 13, 2024 06:39
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Neddy Seagoon posted:The Lethal Company VR mod releases later today. Prepare to cower in a corner and scream like a terrified child while you hear skittering and stomping in the next corridor over, only in VR now... Are you loving kidding me I didn't even know this was a thing Hell yeah gonna need new undies Edit - I feel like a super minority but I used VR to create space. I like having 2 monitors and TV going, but also spend a lot of money on a tiny cottage. Getting rid of my 'battlestation' has helped out my relationship a ton, even though my significant other is very supportive of my hobbies. And I can do it all from my sick rear end couch Shuka fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 18:52
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i wanna state that im more opposed to the idea of the grindset mindset this is a 3500 pair of goggles for serious people only who need to be productive at all times, totally hooked into the full stack and the socials etc. executive culture bullshit. if you're just using it to replace the need for space for a desktop and multimonitor setup, i do get it to some extent even though i think you're bonkers for wanting to get tied into the apple ecosystem for that instead of something way more flexable
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Jan 13, 2024 19:11
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I can't resist sharing my opinion that new technologies -- especially ones that have entirely new ways of doing stuff -- must allow for a phase of "implementing the old on the new" or risk being flops. Stuff gets done the old way & ported to the new platform, before anything brand new can actually exist. This happens with every new technological platform. (Or at least, it has so far.*) Contact lists first emulated rolodexes. Digital organizers emulated notepads. Word processors emulated typewriter layouts and workflows. Digital art was scanned pictures and photos before digital art was something that existed and was made entirely digital with digital tools. Mobile phones were phones that could be used anywhere first and foremost, they're still even CALLED mobile phones despite being so much more. And so on. This means XR headsets need to be able to effectively implement familiar existing work and interaction methods -- stuff like spawning virtual monitors -- before they can get people to "work" in VR in a fundamentally different way. Any technology that doesn't allow for this "implement the old on the new" phase is doomed to being one of those "it was ahead of its time" flops. I suspect that Apple might be right to be porting all of their existing apps and stuff first for a limited scope, rather than trying for full communist utopia revolution overnight. Don't know if that translates to any kind of success, but I am certain that trying to skip ahead of that step would not be a good onboarding move. * The wildcard is that it has never been easier for motivated amateurs to experiment with and launch their own takes on things. The ability of individuals or small groups to do meaningful poo poo is greater now than it has ever been in our entire history. At some point -- and this point might have already arrived -- the rules about just how much a new tech has to sandbag things because it needs commercial success first and foremost will change.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:32
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The Eyes Have It posted:I can't resist sharing my opinion that new technologies -- especially ones that have entirely new ways of doing stuff -- must allow for a phase of "implementing the old on the new" or risk being flops. Stuff gets done the old way & ported to the new platform, before anything brand new can actually exist. This happens with every new technological platform. (Or at least, it has so far.*) VR's been available to the mainstream for like 8 years. Nobody cares about replacing existing computing, you've been able to do it for a long time but it's just kind of pointless
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Jan 13, 2024 23:48
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The Eyes Have It posted:I can't resist sharing my opinion that new technologies -- especially ones that have entirely new ways of doing stuff -- must allow for a phase of "implementing the old on the new" or risk being flops. Stuff gets done the old way & ported to the new platform, before anything brand new can actually exist. This happens with every new technological platform. (Or at least, it has so far.*) I feel like for a lot of this post you’re just describing skeuomorphism, which is a design philosophy that isn’t as inevitable as you’re making it seem. For a lot of those examples you give, there are a lot of other examples (even of concurrent platforms or technologies) that were not porting the old with the new. Skeuomorphism was also a strategy of its time when computing was scary and unfamiliar. We don’t really need it now. For example people were making purely digital art from the moment it was possible. There wasn’t some transition phase of using scanned photos first. If anything that kind of computational photo manipulation came later. Similarly apple contact lists might have emulated Rolodexes, but plenty of others didn’t. Your mobile phone example doesn’t really make sense as mobile phones weren’t really computing devices at the time they could make only phone calls. Texting became the dominant use for them pretty much the moment that technology was integrated into phones. I mean, new technology - especially new communications tech - needs to be compatible with the connected technologies that already exist. Of course a headset can display webpages and of course a mobile handset should still make phone calls. But that’s really normal and straightforward. My point being that interoperability is just a basic requirement of internet enabled technology and not part of some grand plan to onboard people. It doesn’t happen *before* anything, and any new use cases will happen concurrently. The Grumbles fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 02:02
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I guess I'm just musing about how that relates to VR and concepts like spatial computing -- itself not a new idea, but the fact that it's now something people are actually talking about in mainstream is wild. It's not here yet, but I am wondering what it'll look like to get there, if it happens.
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Jan 14, 2024 03:07
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The way MR/AR is presented in fiction is very different to what it is with current level tech, and the disconnect, along with the eyewateringly high price, is what has kept any of that stuff from taking off with the mainstream. If it could fit inside a pair of ray-bans (and them still be usable as sunglasses) and could do MR/AR well, and the cost of them could be deferred over multiple years like people do with their $1500 dollar iphones, then it might have moderate buy-in, if you market it right, and it has compelling software. There's a lot of ifs and maybes in that statement, which is why it's going to take forever for the tech to reach that fictional level of quality, if it ever does. There's no profit in it for hardware developers right now, and that kind of stuff doesn't wow investors, especially since if someone like Facebook can't somehow turn VR/AR/MR profitable, basically nobody can. Apple will profit off their headsets, but they'll probably sell all of 10 of them.
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Jan 14, 2024 03:19
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orange juche posted:The way MR/AR is presented in fiction is very different to what it is with current level tech, and the disconnect, along with the eyewateringly high price, is what has kept any of that stuff from taking off with the mainstream. If it could fit inside a pair of ray-bans (and them still be usable as sunglasses) and could do MR/AR well, and the cost of them could be deferred over multiple years like people do with their $1500 dollar iphones, then it might have moderate buy-in, if you market it right, and it has compelling software. If I was going to put money anywhere, it'd be on maybe the Deckard rather than Apple or Meta. Simply because it'll likely scale into the existing PC ecosystem as an x86 platform, so it plugs in to existing workplaces and software if there's any professional applications for it, without worrying about Meta listening in (Even then we're probably gonna eat poo poo with the pricing if the Index is anything to go by, so  ). Apple's spatial computing probably isn't gonna be A Thing because their spatial computing goal means desktop replacement, and, well do you see MacOS taking the market share in professional workspaces and home desktop computing? Meta also were never gonna get their foot in the door with the Quest, or even Quest Pro, for spatial computing (or remote manager oversight of employees which was what they really sold it for), simply because nobody in infosec would be dumb enough to sign off on a Meta device listening in on secure meetings or handling secure data.
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Jan 14, 2024 03:36
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I'm not so much excited for Apple's product or ecosystem as much as them presenting their decades worth of R&D allowing other companies to gorge on those ideas and eventually create something I might actually want.
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Jan 14, 2024 04:08
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orange juche posted:There's a lot of ifs and maybes in that statement, which is why it's going to take forever for the tech to reach that fictional level of quality, if it ever does. I may have just happened to be paying attention for a particularly productive 4 years of XR, but I disagree with this. The tech isn't at the sci fi dream yet but I don't think it's nearly as far off as people here are saying.
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Jan 14, 2024 06:09
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Koramei posted:I may have just happened to be paying attention for a particularly productive 4 years of XR, but I disagree with this. The tech isn't at the sci fi dream yet but I don't think it's nearly as far off as people here are saying. Yeah I agree, people are expecting this on strange timeframes. The time for this stuff to be no more intrusive than eye glasses isn't that far out. It's not a 2 year thing but it's not 20 either. Well, contact lenses with high end results might be. I do agree Meta won't be the ones to get there, just because no-one rational trusts them with important data. Apple might provide lift but I presume it's going to be an industry evolution not a single player revolution, which is normal.
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Jan 14, 2024 06:39
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Eye glasses being the baseline, you need structure to hold up two lenses in front of the eyes. We've had this technology for a long time and only materials science has ever improved it, with things like titanium frames and thinner glass. MR or VR or whatever you want to call it cannot make this lighter, it can only make it heavier and bulkier. You need a display for each eye, a signal path, a processing unit, power, sensors, and network connectivity. That's why it's physically impossible to make it as non intrusive as eyeglasses. I put my glasses on my kitchen scale and it reads 18g. That's with fairly thick lenses. How is any device that needs to include the above in addition to what glasses are already packaging as efficiently as humanly possible going to compete with that?
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Jan 14, 2024 08:33
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I dont know how much I can hold on my face without being bothered by it, but I imagine it has to be more than my pair of glasses? Like, I've never been glasses shopping and thought "I really like these, and they feel so light on my face!" I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, especially with tech we're even close to, I'm just skeptical something has to be as light as a pair of glasses before people can just comfortably walk around in them. There are those smart glasses already out there, how much do they weigh?
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Jan 14, 2024 08:45
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I think something to consider is not just weight, but how secure it is too.
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Jan 14, 2024 08:45
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pun pundit posted:You need a display for each eye, a signal path, a processing unit, power, sensors, and network connectivity. That's why it's physically impossible to make it as non intrusive as eyeglasses. I don't think physically impossible is true. I mean, there's already a company that's surprisingly far along in making AR contact lenses that have a microLED display, ARM processor, IMU, battery, 5ghz radio, and wireless recharging. VR may not get as non intrusive as glasses in the next 10 years, but I think it will eventually.
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Jan 14, 2024 08:57
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pun pundit posted:Eye glasses being the baseline, you need structure to hold up two lenses in front of the eyes. We've had this technology for a long time and only materials science has ever improved it, with things like titanium frames and thinner glass. MR or VR or whatever you want to call it cannot make this lighter, it can only make it heavier and bulkier. I mean 40 years ago a modern iPhone power for power weighed as much as a small car. Will it be heavier than your glasses? Probably. Will it be so much heavier it doesn't work? Probably not. This whole conversation reminds me of the 'no-one needs more than 640k of ram' thing. Your assertion that display, processing, and networking is simply impossible seems a bit short-sighted - at 18g maybe but is 24 or even 35g that big a difference? I don't think so and it's going to happen. Apple recently put hardware raytracing on a mobile chip – your premise is broken because it doesn't account for what's actually being accomplished today at the fab level. e; as the above post indicates, saying something is impossible is a wildly predictive claim that will almost always be wrong unless you're talking about the speed of light. squirrelzipper fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 08:57
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TIP posted:I don't think physically impossible is true. I mean, there's already a company that's surprisingly far along in making AR contact lenses that have a microLED display, ARM processor, IMU, battery, 5ghz radio, and wireless recharging. https://vimeo.com/725030619/9cbd6749ad The CEO even tested it out himself, and supposedly it worked. You can see overlays of what the UX looks like in the lens in the video. It's monochrome green transparent, so you're not going to be watching a movie on it (they may figure out other colors, but green is easiest to see so they went with green), but being able to recall or summon data to your eyeball with a couple words in a mic would be pretty awesome tbh. Their timeline for beginning FDA trials is "sometime within 5 years" orange juche fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 09:26
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Talking about weight and whatever, the XREAL glasses are about 75g, and I've seen literally nobody complain about the weight other than mentions that the oversized nose pads are a little weird at first. I think it would be easy to go even a bit higher than that if it was a form factor like wraparound shapes to spread the weight out on the whole nose.
Roadie fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 11:25
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Multiplayer game suggestions where a Quest 2, Quest 3 and Valve Index can play together cross-platform?
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Jan 14, 2024 19:07
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Walkabout and demeo
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Jan 14, 2024 20:00
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Lemming posted:VR's been available to the mainstream for like 8 years. Nobody cares about replacing existing computing, you've been able to do it for a long time but it's just kind of pointless nah you can't multitask for poo poo in VR. OP is exactly right, VR is a novelty/console because it hasn't yet done that whole replication phase. if apple can effectively replicate the experience of a desktop computer, a handheld smartphone, the TV in your other room, your laptop, etc etc, but all in the one device, that is the killer app. I feel like that's going to need some sort of tactility, like a keyboard at first that leads into like some weirdass handheld globe that future humans use to type a million words a minute with imperceptible muscle movements - but maybe that's me still projecting current tech forward and there's probably a much better interface with eye tracking and fingertip taps. To reiterate the point though, those techs won't be figured out until we're already doing what we do on all our other screens in the one VR/AR environment.
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Jan 14, 2024 20:06
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Professor Wayne posted:Walkabout and demeo Those are the best recs imo but also Beat Saber 11 Table Tennis PokerstarsVR/Infinite Casino or whatever it’s called now Phasmophobia I think is available quest-native with crossplay? Bigscreen for not a game but you can consume media together
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Jan 14, 2024 20:13
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Chadzok posted:that is the killer app. For about 15min, then it's the uncomfortable killer app
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Jan 14, 2024 20:30
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The Eyes Have It is right, I need VR to emulate my workspace. For some reason people think this has already happened. I don't want to, and can not dedicate an entire room to an office. I want to wear my office on my face.
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Jan 14, 2024 20:31
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Chadzok posted:nah you can't multitask for poo poo in VR. OP is exactly right, VR is a novelty/console because it hasn't yet done that whole replication phase. if apple can effectively replicate the experience of a desktop computer, a handheld smartphone, the TV in your other room, your laptop, etc etc, but all in the one device, that is the killer app. This is the supporting argument that makes glasses-level convenience necessary, right? But even with my 18g glasses I feel relief when I get to take them off and listen to an audio book or whatever at the end of the day. A VR device that's supposed to replace all other gadgets needs to be as convenient and comfortable as glasses or better. And it needs all day battery life. If you take it off in this scenario, how will you answer the phone?
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Jan 14, 2024 20:46
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