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Nathan flipping upside down right as she starts the process with a breach baby was great. like a crazy reverse birth with the towel, suction and finally the saw/C-section.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:46
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oh man I just realized...they're "flipping" houses...show ends with a house "flipped" in a manner of speaking
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Jan 13, 2024 20:49
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good insight. in addition, sawing the branch = cutting the umbilical, and the first (last) step was getting the nursery ready
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Jan 13, 2024 20:50
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Medullah posted:oh man I just realized...they're "flipping" houses...show ends with a house "flipped" in a manner of speaking lol
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Jan 13, 2024 20:51
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a new study bible! posted:I hadn’t considered this at all but it really makes a lot of sense and is very well put. Thank you. I honestly can’t fathom how to structure it all, but I had a few different thoughts that also contributed to this read: I think these are all valid interpretations and fit the proposed theme super well. Asher’s father in law is successful actors/producers/directors that acknowledge and share Nathan’s vision for ambitious, commercially risky art and want success for him, even going as far as attempted bonding over a shared insecurity or failure that actually embarrasses Nathan rather than galvanizing the bond. Nathan criticizes artists that found commercial success through sell-out products (slumlording). He personally struggles with the role that more popular/commercially successful individuals have played in his art and tries to maintain a moral high ground by elevating his own efforts (they just gave us a loan - that he actually knows he can’t ever repay through his current path). Now Im wondering if there might be an analog for John Wilson hidden in the show?! resident fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 21:11
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resident posted:Now Im wondering if there might be an analog for John Wilson hidden in the show?! yeah his name is Steven
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Jan 13, 2024 21:19
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Crescent Wrench posted:(pages of thoughtful discussion that weave in both the text of the series itself and the running themes of Fielder's prior work) It seems like the people who are most disappointed in the ending were expecting there to be some kind of big reveal about the show that would “solve” it and explain the weird stuff, especially the voyeuristic way it was shot. I guess I can see it being kind of a let down when it’s “just” a stylistic choice if you were expecting something a lot bigger. I always interpreted it that way though, so nothing about it was disappointing to me. A lot of people really seemed to get caught up in the camera angles though. I read some review on vulture or wherever where they were upset the show never revealed who was stalking Whitney in the opening to the previous episode. Like, what? This plays into how I interpreted Abshir’s scene. Asher thinks he’s making a grand gesture and Abshir’s going to fall on his knees and thank him, but Abshir only views Asher as an intrusion on his life, so he doesn’t give a poo poo. His kids are out because they have their own lives and why should he have to explain who his guest is to his landlord? Asher didn’t even bother to think about the relevant financial stuff like property taxes or if he even wants to own it in the first place, why does Abshir need to let him in on his life?
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Jan 13, 2024 21:23
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wizardofloneliness posted:the show never revealed who was stalking Whitney in the opening to the previous episode. Like, what? I was thinking there may have been subtle clues that it was Dougie and they’re maybe hiding an affair? The car windshield is cracked and we know about Dougie’s drunk driving habit. If they were having an affair you could jump to wondering if the baby is actually Dougie’s rather than Asher’s.
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Jan 13, 2024 21:37
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Crescent Wrench posted:(pages of thoughtful discussion that weave in both the text of the series itself and the running themes of Fielder's prior work) Nothing means anything unless it is explicitly spelled out to me!!!
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Jan 13, 2024 21:59
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wizardofloneliness posted:It seems like the people who are most disappointed in the ending were expecting there to be some kind of big reveal about the show that would “solve” it and explain the weird stuff, especially the voyeuristic way it was shot. I guess I can see it being kind of a let down when it’s “just” a stylistic choice if you were expecting something a lot bigger. I always interpreted it that way though, so nothing about it was disappointing to me. The reason I didn't like the final episode was that it was very disconnected from the rest of the show. The rest of the series repeatedly rejects 'curses' as real, and it plays on the psychological aspect of them. The tense music and editing play into this. Abshir says its directly. So now curses are real? By trying to bluntly put out this message of supernatural rebirth, which I didn't notice at first, but people have been talking about in the thread, they end up making the overall series unclear. Characters that are moderately developed are never fully developed which I find very frustrating. Dougie's DUI's and ex-wife stuff aren't really completely resolved, or even relevant to anything in the finale even though they take up a large amount of screen time. Whitney's problems having children because of previous abortions is just brushed over and her pregnancy is the focus. Why add that part in the first place? They consciously choose to add everything in, but it seems like it was just to mislead or waste the viewer's time. Fernando just quitting was out of character in my opinion. Dude carries around a gun everywhere, hangs out with militia and was very upset with Asher and Whitney. The house didn't seem relevant to the finale either, besides the initial thought of an "air pocket." Espanola didn't seem relevant to the story, besides the throwaway line about going to that hospital out of necessity. I didn't really need a super connected ending, but I was disappointed they didn't even try to end some of those stories in a stronger way. But I definitely agree with this. Caesar Saladin posted:You can say what you want about the episode but its impressive its cultivating this level of discussion, with so many interpretations about what it means, which all seem quite valid.
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Jan 13, 2024 22:09
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in this vid Benny talks briefly about being inspired by some old Candid Camera footage and using hidden camera style shots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7IIly0Cq8Q&t=272s
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Jan 13, 2024 22:11
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RandomHodge posted:Nothing means anything unless it is explicitly spelled out to me!!! I don't think that's what is being said. Here is my feeling. Leaving things open for interpretation has been done successfully many times over, that's not the issue. I love plenty of art with surrealist, abstract, and ambiguous elements. But there is a point where it's TOO open for interpretation, where anyone can derive almost anything in their own heads from connecting dots, much like a conspiracy theory kind of thought process. For example, resident's spoilered thoughts above sound to me like making something out of nothing. If something that big really were a part of the storyline and it was left THIS ambiguous, that is unsuccessful writing, in my book. There is value in creating discussion, but it's easy for me to see how many would view this as uneventfully written in terms of having SOME fairly explicit resolution for all the things building up in the show. How do I feel about the ending, you ask? It was really nerve-wracking to watch, and not in a good way for me. I wish I didn't watch it since that whole situation taps into genuine fear for me. Beyond that, I thought had it been a standalone Black Mirror episode, it would have been excellent. It was a very well-executed conceptual episode in and of itself. As the final episode to the 9-hour buildup and tone of the rest of the show? Kind of baffling. It felt like it had almost nothing to do with the previous 9 episodes. As some have pointed out, regularly visited sub-plots went completely unresolved. It almost felt like the episode was telling me "lol none of that really mattered" with the abrupt jump and the supernatural focus. If this was really a show about Asher's fears of being a father / not being wanted /however you interpret it, it was sure strange to make the show about a lot of other things up until the final episode. I respect the ambition of The Curse, but I thought the execution was not particularly good. This is coming from someone who loves Nathan Fielder. Emma Stone is incredible in this, has to be said.
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Jan 13, 2024 22:18
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gurragadon posted:The reason I didn't like the final episode was that it was very disconnected from the rest of the show. This more or less sums up my position as well. It just felt like an episode from a different show. I had feelings of "so why did we waste so much time over 9 episodes building up things that weren't resolved, and why did we spend so much time suddenly focusing on things that were under-developed?"
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Jan 13, 2024 22:20
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Whitney's smile at the end seemed almost devilish. Like she knew everything that happened, was happy with how it played out, and maybe even had some control over it? Perhaps she cast the curse, maybe she's a witch.
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Jan 13, 2024 22:21
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SirPablo posted:Whitney's smile at the end seemed almost devilish. Like she knew everything that happened, was happy with how it played out, and maybe even had some control over it? Perhaps she cast the curse, maybe she's a witch. she's the green queen
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Jan 13, 2024 22:25
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fawning deference posted:I don't think that's what is being said. Here is my feeling. In my defense, I think you need to try to make something out of nothing when the show throws this much of a curveball. Nathan’s work shows he is a bit of a mad genius so it’s at least worth exploring some of the thought process that has gone into his creation, conscious or unconscious.
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Jan 13, 2024 22:26
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I don't know that you can say Espanola feels irrelevant to the finale when both of our main characters end up in situations where the Espanola hospital staff and fire department hold their lives in their hands and are key to the events playing out
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Jan 13, 2024 22:38
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gurragadon posted:The reason I didn't like the final episode was that it was very disconnected from the rest of the show. See, I didn’t think most of those things needed to be resolved. What would a “fully-developed” version of these characters look like? In regards to Dougie drunk-driving and killing his wife, what would be the resolution for that? I imagine he probably just goes on continuing to be the way that he is. Although I thought his breakdown after Asher flies off was a pretty good ending for him. He finally admits he’s always been selfish and was only doing things for himself. Even then, it’s still largely in response to Asher and not the thing that he’s actually guilty of. And for Whitney, I don’t think her having had an abortion was actually an issue. That detail was meant to signify that it was something Asher didn’t know about her, not that it was affecting her fertility and was going to be an ongoing issue. There are a lot of random details added in about characters and situations, but I don’t think they were meant to mislead viewers. Whether you think they were a waste of time is up to you. I viewed them mostly as just developing the characters and people more and making it seem like a more lived-in setting, not necessarily plot threads to be followed up on later, so the lack of firm resolution doesn’t bother me.
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Jan 13, 2024 22:39
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Medullah posted:oh man I just realized...they're "flipping" houses...show ends with a house "flipped" in a manner of speaking And his name is Siegel, and the show ends with him flying off like a seagull.
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Jan 13, 2024 22:47
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resident posted:I think these are all valid interpretations and fit the proposed theme super well. Also forgot to write earlier that the angry PA spoiling the baby's gender could represent production crews that spoil the magic or mystery of the shows he's making. Also Dougie is John Wilson, obviously! He won't ever stop filiming and consistently mocks Nathan for his little dick and voyeur fetish lol
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Jan 13, 2024 22:54
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Was I supposed to eat the turkey???
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Jan 13, 2024 23:07
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a new study bible! posted:Also forgot to write earlier that the angry PA spoiling the baby's gender could represent production crews that spoil the magic or mystery of the shows he's making. I see Dougie as more of the Tyler Durden of Nathan’s psyche.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:08
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fawning deference posted:This more or less sums up my position as well. It just felt like an episode from a different show. I had feelings of "so why did we waste so much time over 9 episodes building up things that weren't resolved, and why did we spend so much time suddenly focusing on things that were under-developed?" What things were built up and not resolved? Seems like everything got wrapped up here. I'm not left with any lingering questions, they spent those 9 episodes (ooh a whole nine episodes a third of a season) building up the stuff they resolved in the finale.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:12
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fawning deference posted:I don't think that's what is being said. Here is my feeling. Genuinely, thanks for the thoughtful response to my snark. I don’t fully agree but 100% see where you’re coming from. I know you didn’t make the post I was originally responding to but i just found “you can debate meanings but it doesnt mean anything” to be a very reductive way of looking at an abstract piece of work
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Jan 13, 2024 23:16
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wizardofloneliness posted:It seems like the people who are most disappointed in the ending were expecting there to be some kind of big reveal about the show that would “solve” it You hit the nail on the head.* *This is an idiom in which the "nail" refers to the problem regarding overly literal analysis of The Curse that demands a thorough logical explanation of all events in the show at the expense of emotional or thematic resolution. Wizardofloneliness has "hit the nail on the head" with his astute analysis. There is no literal nail.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:16
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absolutely still buzzing from probably one of the best episodes of tv I've seen in my life. what a perfect horrifying nightmare, hilarious too. I think I have to let it percolate for a while and see what themes resonate with me overall. I think there's something being said about watching others and judging them - maybe we the audience ultimately cursed Asher by wanting a big ending
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Jan 13, 2024 23:32
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alf_pogs posted:absolutely still buzzing from probably one of the best episodes of tv I've seen in my life. what a perfect horrifying nightmare, hilarious too. I think I have to let it percolate for a while and see what themes resonate with me overall. I think there's something being said about watching others and judging them - maybe we the audience ultimately cursed Asher by wanting a big ending i really liked the show ending on a shot where The Viewer is trying to dive back into the house to find more to see. we are definitely the sickos. a lot of people have been using David Lynch and Twin Peaks comparisons that I didn't necessarily see, but the role of the viewer in the show is where I can really see it
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Jan 13, 2024 23:35
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fawning deference posted:Emma Stone is incredible in this, has to be said. She's a powerhouse. It's crazy that she's like one of the most charming screen presences of her generation and every time Whitney is on screen she's so repellent that I have my face in my hands half the time.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:48
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The funniest moment in the finale was Dougie using Bixby to text that guy.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:52
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fawning deference posted:Emma Stone is incredible in this, has to be said.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:54
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Aye Doc posted:i really liked the show ending on a shot where The Viewer is trying to dive back into the house to find more to see. we are definitely the sickos. a lot of people have been using David Lynch and Twin Peaks comparisons that I didn't necessarily see, but the role of the viewer in the show is where I can really see it for me the Lynch comparison is accurate for the feeling of nightmare logic in the last episode, and the sort of "what's underneath America?" approach to the whole show, but mostly I felt the tone and paranoid / hostile consideration of audience complicity was closer to Haneke these are just comparisons, really, the whole thing felt like such a unique mash of Fielder and Safdie
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Jan 13, 2024 23:57
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Khanstant posted:What things were built up and not resolved? Seems like everything got wrapped up here. I'm not left with any lingering questions, they spent those 9 episodes (ooh a whole nine episodes a third of a season) building up the stuff they resolved in the finale. Quick example: do you think Fernando or Abshir or the little girl got any resolution whatsoever? The last we saw of Fernando, he came with armed men to their house and was loving pissed off and it was specifically introduced as a potential oh poo poo foil to the entire project. Then we never saw him again. Also, the whole show kept viewers in suspense around how everything was going wrong with Whitney's self-centered project in Espaniola, waiting for things to fall apart, and we just quietly get a marginally watched show with no fallout from the residents?
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Jan 14, 2024 00:12
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wizardofloneliness posted:The funniest moment in the finale was Dougie using Bixby to text that guy. Lol that does rule.
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Jan 14, 2024 00:12
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fawning deference posted:Quick example: do you think Fernando or Abshir or the little girl got any resolution whatsoever? Obviously Asher's threats scared Fernando off. Who wouldn't be scared?
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Jan 14, 2024 00:19
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Fernando was under the tree shotgunning Asher into orbit case closed next show
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Jan 14, 2024 00:27
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I think Nala got resolution - after two (perceived) successful curses, she apologised to Asher and steadfastly refused to curse Dougie when he asked. shes done with curses and I'm not sure what else there needs to be to her story, really
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Jan 14, 2024 00:28
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I was not feeling the ending yesterday but it's grown on me after thinking about it. There are a lot of little moments like the cuts from Whitney's conversations with the jeans clerk into a pan to the ceiling with sky and clouds wallpaper that on a rewatch will look like wildly apparent foreshadowing. This show was not going to solve gentrification in one episode or anything.
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Jan 14, 2024 00:34
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The Ninth Layer posted:This show was not going to solve gentrification in one episode or anything. True, but to be fair, dropping it completely as a factor in the finale of the series is another thing.
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Jan 14, 2024 00:36
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I always find sudden time skips jarring and the heavy emphasis on parenting isn't a theme that resonates with me, personally, but those are my issues and not at all to do with the overall quality of the show itself. I enjoyed the finale just fine but I'm not going to begrudge anyone for hating it. It's precision-crafted to divide audiences. I'm a little miffed that Whit presumably just gets to keep Whitting things up for everyone around her but I mean, yeah. She's a rich white lady. Unless they catch her insider trading she is always going to be just fine.
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Jan 14, 2024 00:41
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fawning deference posted:True, but to be fair, dropping it completely as a factor in the finale of the series is another thing. I don't really see how they dropped it at all. The land and its residents literally ejected one of the gentrifiers.
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Jan 14, 2024 00:54
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