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Hell, it gets weird in all kinds of scenarios if it's magical 1944 economy and warfighting crew vs present forces. 1944 Soviet Army probably roll through Europe today if they just appeared by magic. The internet, jets, and modern fire control only does so much to counter tens of thousands of artillery pieces and 2+ million combat-ready troops.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:17
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So. Many. Shells.
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Jan 13, 2024 20:51
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Soylent Pudding posted:Putting on my Turtledove hat and wondering who wins the N Korea 2024 vs US 1944 conflict if nukes are taken out of the equation. Hahaha 
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Jan 13, 2024 20:57
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The KPA in 2024 is supposedly 1.32M active duty personnel with an extra 560K reserves. By comparison, the US active duty military in 1944:
Given that North Korea only has 26 million people total, they might not even have enough able-bodied fighting age adults available to match the US in 1944.
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Jan 13, 2024 21:20
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Terrifying Effigies posted:The KPA in 2024 is supposedly 1.32M active duty personnel with an extra 560K reserves. And how many of those North Koreans are actually medically fit to fight? If memory serves, they've had widespread famine for the past couple of years and KJU has refused offers to increase aid shipments.
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Jan 13, 2024 21:22
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In 44 we still had Battleships that could change the geography in most of North Korea. They don't have enough AAA to handle even half of the poo poo we could bring to bare. Maybe I'm the dummy, but that fight is still extremely one sided. We could just line up Sherman tanks in ranks. shoulder to shoulder and just drive North from the 38th, and still overwhelm them- in 1943, we produced nearly 40k armored vehicles. In 44, we produced more than 20k.
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Jan 13, 2024 21:27
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Starting to sound a lot like the "what are they gonna do, call a friend?" discussions of the US and UN during the Korean War before we entered our own FAFO portion of that war.
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Jan 13, 2024 21:28
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bulletsponge13 posted:In 44 we still had Battleships that could change the geography in most of North Korea. And NK Balistic missiles into assembly areas?
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Jan 13, 2024 21:31
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north korea does have submarines and they're gonna beat out WW2 tech probably.
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Jan 13, 2024 21:36
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Mass formations of B-29 were a technological wonder in their time but I don't like their odds against MIG-17s much less the -29s and sukhois
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Jan 13, 2024 21:44
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The biggest thing about this hypothetical is that 2024 N.Korea cannot effectively project power to the US mainland and 1944 US can sail multiple aircraft carriers and battleships right off the coast. edit: EEh, actually I wouldn't take 1944 anti-air versus a multiple decade old jet. Jonny Nox fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 21:48
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mlmp08 posted:Starting to sound a lot like the "what are they gonna do, call a friend?" discussions of the US and UN during the Korean War before we entered our own FAFO portion of that war. If the Eighth Army had had taken the threat from China seriously Korea would look very different today. China had probed across the Yalu in division strength weeks ahead of the big assault. There was no reason for the UN forces not to have been prepared. Instead the attitude was that the war was over so no need to prepare any kind of defense. The few units that took the threat seriously held their own until forced out of position simply because they had no support and were becoming surrounded. IMO McArthur should have been court-martialed for failing to recognize that strategic concern and acting on it. It was telegraphed by troop movements, statements from China and the previously mentioned large probing attacks and he ignored it.
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Jan 13, 2024 21:57
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E: double post.
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Jan 13, 2024 21:59
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Jonny Nox posted:The biggest thing about this hypothetical is that 2024 N.Korea cannot effectively project power to the US mainland and 1944 US can sail multiple aircraft carriers and battleships right off the coast. At that scale it becomes a numbers game of "do they have enough jets and AA to shoot down all those bombers before they take out the airfields", and I suspect the answer is no.
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Jan 13, 2024 21:59
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Computer viking posted:At that svale it becomes a numbers game of "do they have enough old jets and AA to shoot down all those bombers before they take out the airfields", and I suspect the answer is no. Can those bombers take off from airfields devestated by theater ballistic missiles?
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Jan 13, 2024 22:00
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Flikken posted:Can those bombers take off from airfields devestated by theater ballistic missiles? Depends on the scenario we're modelling here, I have no idea how many and what range missiles NK are operating, or what the round-trip range of a B-29 was. We are yet again way off topic, though.
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Jan 13, 2024 22:08
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Flikken posted:Can those bombers take off from airfields devestated by theater ballistic missiles? Those missiles can only do temporary damage to airfields.
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Jan 13, 2024 22:10
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https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1746152397510975570 Content: It's a bit hard to make out due to the distance, but apparently a pair of Bradleys taking out a T90. One of them rolls up to kissing distance and unloads on it, then scoots when the T90 fires back(which misses), at which point the other Bradley rolls up and just starts blasting, damaging the T90 to the point where flames are flickering out under the turret which is just spinning constantly. Eventually an FPV drone delivers the killing blow. I feel like rolling up within 40 meters of an enemy MBT is what one would call a "ballsy" move, despite not exactly being a tank/IFV tactics expert.
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Jan 13, 2024 22:12
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huh, world in conflict was right
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Jan 13, 2024 22:17
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Flikken posted:Can those bombers take off from airfields devestated by theater ballistic missiles? B-29s can and have taken off from flat stretches of polar ice. In 1944 they flew from Chinese airfields made from hand-cleared fields overlaid with metal mesh. FOD is much less of a problem for piston engines than jets, even engines as finicky and temperamental as those on the Superfortress.
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Jan 13, 2024 22:28
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PurpleXVI posted:I feel like rolling up within 40 meters of an enemy MBT is what one would call a "ballsy" move, despite not exactly being a tank/IFV tactics expert. I'm also not a tank expert, but I would think that within a certain range it doesn't really matter how much closer you get. Like I would expect a modern tank could kill me just as easily at 200m or 400m as at 40m, assuming equal line of sight considerations.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:21
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I’m guessing that sub-100 meter ranges, your “target the weak point” decision making can switch from “attack from the sides or rear” to “attack that centimers-wide gap between the turret and hull”
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Jan 13, 2024 23:30
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Distance absolutely influences the kinetic energy a projectile has left. I don't know what the curve is for the Bradley's gun and at what distance it could penetrate a t90 and where, but closer is better.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:34
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Also, turret traversal is a thing at close range.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:41
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It's like none of y'all have played world of tanks or war thunder.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:42
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I can't imagine getting sandblasted by an autocannon is particularly pleasant even if it won't penetrate the crew compartment. And all the expensive doodads outside the tank aren't particularly fragile, but a 30mm will turn them all into junk as well.
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Jan 13, 2024 23:52
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https://www.businessinsider.com/2-women-who-poisoned-46-russian-troops-in-shoot-out-with-fsb-report-2024-1?r=US&IR=Tquote:Ukrainian saboteurs who are alleged to have poisoned and killed 46 Russian soldiers are on the run in annexed Crimea after a shoot-out with police, a local report says. Russian security state doing real well at keeping things secure and state-like. Also a great sign when your "liberated" populations start murdering your liberators.
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Jan 14, 2024 00:30
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46? Jesus, not sleeping on the job there!
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Jan 14, 2024 00:31
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Gerasimov's next big idea: telling conscripts not to be horny
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Jan 14, 2024 00:32
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Murgos posted:If the Eighth Army had had taken the threat from China seriously Korea would look very different today. What, MacArthur failed to do something despite proper warning and time to prepare, leading to a major gently caress up for everyone? It'd be weird if that happened twice. Which it did.
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Jan 14, 2024 00:35
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PurpleXVI posted:Russian security state doing real well at keeping things secure and state-like. Also a great sign when your "liberated" populations start murdering your liberators. Hmm, I'm not sure if this is a trustworthy source though: "Telegram channel Kremlin Snuffbox said on Tuesday"
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Jan 14, 2024 00:43
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There's something to be said for the intimidation factor of being rushed by something that is shooting you If only the T90 could reverse
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Jan 14, 2024 00:45
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Murgos posted:If the Eighth Army had had taken the threat from China seriously Korea would look very different today. The pattern here is that Douglas McArthur was an overconfident buffoon, ol' Dugout Doug got the US hosed up in the Phillipines in 1941 due to overconfidence and not listening to intel reports, and on multiple occasions of bad decisions should have been drummed the gently caress out of the military. When he hosed up the Phillipines defense he should have been summarily discharged for his incompetence, but his political connections kept him from getting the boot.
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Jan 14, 2024 00:52
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jaete posted:Hmm, I'm not sure if this is a trustworthy source though: "Telegram channel Kremlin Snuffbox said on Tuesday" This is true, but at the same time, why would what appears to be a pro-Kremlin channel(apparently refers to the saboteurs as "criminals" and expresses regret that they escaped) lie about their dudes getting murdered in outsized amounts by a pair of plucky saboteurs?
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Jan 14, 2024 01:12
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You need 3 things to win a fight: Speed, Surprise, and the controlled application of violence. If you don't have all three, double up on the two you do have, and you will win most fights.
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Jan 14, 2024 01:14
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It would take a well trained and hardened crew to not panic while under close range auto cannon fire and I don't think russia has those anymore.
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Jan 14, 2024 01:33
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Yeah, with tanks whoever starts shooting first is usually the winner, because hits scare the gently caress out of even a seasoned crew, and that crew looks like they were in a panic with the turret just swinging wildly.
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Jan 14, 2024 03:42
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orange juche posted:The pattern here is that Douglas McArthur was an overconfident buffoon, ol' Dugout Doug got the US hosed up in the Phillipines in 1941 due to overconfidence and not listening to intel reports, and on multiple occasions of bad decisions should have been drummed the gently caress out of the military. Yeah MacArthur should've been court martialed for almost everything he did
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Jan 14, 2024 04:12
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bulletsponge13 posted:You need 3 things to win a fight: Speed, Surprise, and the controlled application of violence. If you don't have all three, double up on the two you do have, and you will win most fights. I'd say a Bradley getting the drop on a T-90M is exercising all 3 lol, quite well from the point of view of that video. A bushmaster can't get through the armor, but the barely trained tanker crew getting pummeled by autocannon fire don't care about that while getting their bells rung by impacts. 30mm hitting armor is loud as gently caress to the people inside the metal box, so yeah, no thoughts going on for anyone inside that tank. orange juche fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 04:17
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Videogames... got it wrong? I'll be outside.......
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Jan 14, 2024 04:39
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