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Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Fidelitious posted:

It's so completely mind-boggling that all I can figure is that the provincial government thinks (understandably) that people don't understand how property taxes work and it will make people think that they're doing something nice for them to increase affordability? And they can blame cities for raising rates? I have no idea

Conservatives think taxes and the government are bad, and so the people they elect want to starve and worsen government services so their wealthy Captain of Private Industry friends can make a buck shoveling rubble. I don't think it's more complicated than that.

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Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

Was chatting with a pal at my old building and after a long period of time of no Airbnb (never really been much a problem) they ran into someone with bags in the entry asking where unit 254whatever was. They had a look and yep it was on Airbnb. "License number: exempt" lol as if that's a real thing. Just amazing how brazen the rule breakers are.

Supposedly the BC government is going to do something to help City of Vancouver with enforcement but I haven't heard much about what the mechanics are and how they're going to stop the situation.

Folks seem to think the boom is coming down on Airbnb in BC with the new legislation from the government, but all the BC NDP is doing is pretty much extending a looser version of Vancouver's rules province wide. If they do not provide any additional enforcement aid, then every where in the province will be in the same situation as Vancouver, endlessly playing wack-a-mole. Seems to me likely that there's not really gonna be much change unless there's some powerful enforcement mechanism in that legislation.

---

At hockey this morning walked into the dressing room and guys were talking about the Airbnb restrictions, annoyed because hotels are terrible for families and Airbnbs are way better. Honestly I kind of agree and it's puzzling that the hotel industry hasn't tried to create a similar product.

The Realtor and Tim Hortons owner discussing the issue get more and more into their conversation. Timmies owner says, "I hate it when people say people are being greedy. It's a Free Market!"

Kind of have a small suspicion these guys are/were unhappy Airbnb landlords lol.....

At a very surface level, if one doesn't put much thought into it, you can see where the Timmies guy is coming from and it almost seems reasonable. The Market clearly has a huge need for accomodations, so why not serve that need? And If we need more housing beyond that well let's simply make more housing too. Grow the pie, adding more housing, adding more Airbnbs. Reasonable right? Something I recall hearing from YIMBYs in years past.

Problem is however that the demand for Airbnb is uneven. Timmies owner here saying "whats the problem? Free Market!" in his big house in the Fraser Valley, where there is no Airbnb demand, meanwhile he owns some Airbnb in the Okanagan where everywhere else has an Airbnb, and local workers in Okanagan can't find a place anywhere no matter how much housing gets built.

Not to mention the annoyance of everyone else in that Okanagan condo as clueless tourists there for a weekend show up and make noise... Bet Timmies guy wouldn't be happy about that if it was happening next to his door!

Purgatory Glory
Feb 20, 2005

Femtosecond posted:

Was chatting with a pal at my old building and after a long period of time of no Airbnb (never really been much a problem) they ran into someone with bags in the entry asking where unit 254whatever was. They had a look and yep it was on Airbnb. "License number: exempt" lol as if that's a real thing. Just amazing how brazen the rule breakers are.

Supposedly the BC government is going to do something to help City of Vancouver with enforcement but I haven't heard much about what the mechanics are and how they're going to stop the situation.

Folks seem to think the boom is coming down on Airbnb in BC with the new legislation from the government, but all the BC NDP is doing is pretty much extending a looser version of Vancouver's rules province wide. If they do not provide any additional enforcement aid, then every where in the province will be in the same situation as Vancouver, endlessly playing wack-a-mole. Seems to me likely that there's not really gonna be much change unless there's some powerful enforcement mechanism in that legislation.

---

At hockey this morning walked into the dressing room and guys were talking about the Airbnb restrictions, annoyed because hotels are terrible for families and Airbnbs are way better. Honestly I kind of agree and it's puzzling that the hotel industry hasn't tried to create a similar product.

The Realtor and Tim Hortons owner discussing the issue get more and more into their conversation. Timmies owner says, "I hate it when people say people are being greedy. It's a Free Market!"

Kind of have a small suspicion these guys are/were unhappy Airbnb landlords lol.....

At a very surface level, if one doesn't put much thought into it, you can see where the Timmies guy is coming from and it almost seems reasonable. The Market clearly has a huge need for accomodations, so why not serve that need? And If we need more housing beyond that well let's simply make more housing too. Grow the pie, adding more housing, adding more Airbnbs. Reasonable right? Something I recall hearing from YIMBYs in years past.

Problem is however that the demand for Airbnb is uneven. Timmies owner here saying "whats the problem? Free Market!" in his big house in the Fraser Valley, where there is no Airbnb demand, meanwhile he owns some Airbnb in the Okanagan where everywhere else has an Airbnb, and local workers in Okanagan can't find a place anywhere no matter how much housing gets built.

Not to mention the annoyance of everyone else in that Okanagan condo as clueless tourists there for a weekend show up and make noise... Bet Timmies guy wouldn't be happy about that if it was happening next to his door!

The Timmy guys double loving the market. Taking rental stock off the market to airbnb and making Indian students have to work at Timmy's to get by.

My coworker has a friend who was buying houses in the Okanagan and Merrit to Airbnb out. She mentioned them having a device out on the deck that measures decibels and messages her when it gets too loud. How loving horrible does it get for how long before you install that?

COPE 27
Sep 11, 2006

Femtosecond posted:

Was chatting with a pal at my old building and after a long period of time of no Airbnb (never really been much a problem) they ran into someone with bags in the entry asking where unit 254whatever was. They had a look and yep it was on Airbnb. "License number: exempt" lol as if that's a real thing. Just amazing how brazen the rule breakers are.

Supposedly the BC government is going to do something to help City of Vancouver with enforcement but I haven't heard much about what the mechanics are and how they're going to stop the situation.

First offence confiscate their house. Second offence confiscate their head, imo.

sleep with the vicious
Apr 2, 2010
My sister in law wants to buy an investment condo in calgary - prices are only going to keep going up!

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

Purgatory Glory posted:

My coworker has a friend who was buying houses in the Okanagan and Merrit to Airbnb out. She mentioned them having a device out on the deck that measures decibels and messages her when it gets too loud. How loving horrible does it get for how long before you install that?

This gets into the issue of why regular people that might not really give a poo poo about housing issues don't like Airbnb. People are on vacation and they're gonna want to have fun.

For regular people in the Okanagan maybe they have a mildly loud party once every few months if not once a year.

If the condo/house is turned into an Airbnb then suddenly it could be occupied constantly by an endless stream of people who are taking their once a year vacation to the Okanagan and accordingly are going to want to have a bit of a party. Therefore it's just constant party.

Presumably this is the reasons we initially developed exclusive residential SFH zoning areas too. Residents teamed up to keep any and all disruption out. That meant no hotels no bars no restaurants. Airbnb is a wedge into that. Enabling hotel use in areas that worked hard to keep it out.

Of course I'd absolutely prefer having a managed hotel next door than an Airbnb party house. Even worse if it's a party condo next to mine in the same building.

We need balance. Allow more hotels and other things and make a more stable and normal market.

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
x-posting. it's a blogto article about a reddit post so could be fake as hell but here's your hate read for the day




Cold on a Cob posted:

"rent control isnt real," i assure myself as i close my eyes and ram the bank with my tenant in the passenger seat of my lovely bronco

Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.
Alright, that's kind of hilarious.

I do wish that there was more effort put into education about tenant's rights because every renter should be informed enough to be able to confidently tell this guy to gently caress off.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
You guys, I’ve received some troubling news: investments are never risk-free. Very troubling…

Edit: mind you, the conversation with the banker could be epic. “Yeah, so your b’ys flat broke and has gently caress all idea of how to be a landlord, do with that information what you will.”

PT6A fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Jan 9, 2024

Purgatory Glory
Feb 20, 2005

Cold on a Cob posted:

x-posting. it's a blogto article about a reddit post so could be fake as hell but here's your hate read for the day



I think it's a fake scenario but a fun read. My response would be to say "I'll risk my credit, thanks for your concern ".

cat botherer
Jan 6, 2022

I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Purgatory Glory posted:

I think it's a fake scenario but a fun read. My response would be to say "I'll risk my credit, thanks for your concern ".
IDK, sounds very realistic given the poo poo I've had some landlords try to pull. They tend to have a hard time with the theory of the mind.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Yeah I know of no reason that we shouldn’t believe that there aren’t landlords like this out there in abundance.

large hands
Jan 24, 2006

PT6A posted:

You guys, I’ve received some troubling news: investments are never risk-free. Very troubling…

Edit: mind you, the conversation with the banker could be epic. “Yeah, so your b’ys flat broke and has gently caress all idea of how to be a landlord, do with that information what you will.”

6%? I thought the average was 2... this is very unsettling

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

single-condo landlords are the worst landlords in the universe. The most entitled idiots who have no clue how anything works but feel 100% entitled to not just generate tons of equity but make a monthly profit via rent.

My friend rented from a guy just like this. Every interaction with him had him just whining and whining about how hard done by he is. How her rent only just barely covered the mortgage but didn't cover all the strata fees which he had to "pay each month out of pocket" and remember last year when the sink broke?? Yeah, HE had to pay for them out of pocket!! Can you believe it, the tenant doesn't have to pay for that?? How's a landlord expected to make any money in this society??? His condo doubled in value over 5 years of course. But those were "paper gains" he couldn't spend until he cashed out so don't bring them up. He of course did cash out, she was immediately booted out by the new landlord who said they were going to live there but the unit was put back on the market at about 75% higher rent like a month later.

These people write letters to the editor about how landlords have no rights and no ability to turn a profit so society should thank them for providing rentals at a loss, have little ametuer landlord facebook groups where they complain endlessly about tenants and exchange hustle culture tips, and provide the least stable rentals because they usually always sell after a 4-5 year cycle.

Hubbert
Mar 25, 2007

At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

Cold on a Cob posted:

x-posting. it's a blogto article about a reddit post so could be fake as hell but here's your hate read for the day



yet another renter defaulting on their landlord's mortgage, very depressing, why won't tenants take responsibility?!

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

Love how somehow making a payment toward paying off the condo you have purchased becomes

:qq: "pay each month out of pocket" :qq:

Femtosecond fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 9, 2024

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
This is the problem with attempting capitalism without having capital. It doesn't work very well.

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



If you're not using other people's money you're doing it wrong.

tagesschau
Sep 1, 2006
Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren.

PT6A posted:

You guys, I’ve received some troubling news: investments are never risk-free.

But I'm a good and righteous person! Risk is just for other people's investments!

T.C.
Feb 10, 2004

Believe.
The thing to do in that situation would be to show up to the bank and explain that they need to up their interest rate to account for the added risks created by their customer being dumb as rocks

Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.
Can you believe that I pay my mortgage and utilities out of my own pocket every month?

The government is out of control.

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

Lotta Canadians never gonna get a variable mortgage ever again.

https://twitter.com/christinedolik/status/1746208659783155844?s=46&t=ruJSzwqECRxfc3oePbtIng

sleep with the vicious
Apr 2, 2010

I assumed this was a variable rate fixed payment but this person later in that thread says it is a standard variable. Can someone ELI5 how this is possible in this case?

Also jesus loving christ

Purgatory Glory
Feb 20, 2005

sleep with the vicious posted:

I assumed this was a variable rate fixed payment but this person later in that thread says it is a standard variable. Can someone ELI5 how this is possible in this case?

Also jesus loving christ

It's RBC, and all the big banks (except Scotia) do not adjust your payments if the rates go up. You just see less go to principal and more to interest (and the amortization goes through the roof because of how little is being paid down). It's ugly but there are a couple things to consider at this moment:
1 These people did qualify for a higher payment and it looks like they chose not to increase theirs, even though they may be able to pay more.

2 Scotia, who is increasing payment amount every rate hike hasn't seen larger losses than the other big 5 who don't.its still early though and this is obviously not sustainable if the economy slows on top of this.

Purgatory Glory fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jan 14, 2024

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
Eventually there will be a kind of mortgage where you're just paying rent to the bank after a large downpayment, and there are fewer restrictions on what you can do and when you might get kicked out, but you're responsible for things that a landlord would normally take care of.

As I type this out, it seems like that wouldn't be all bad, as long as we're honest about what's going on.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

PT6A posted:

Eventually there will be a kind of mortgage where you're just paying rent to the bank after a large downpayment, and there are fewer restrictions on what you can do and when you might get kicked out, but you're responsible for things that a landlord would normally take care of.

As I type this out, it seems like that wouldn't be all bad, as long as we're honest about what's going on.

Sounds a lot like one of those 75-year-amortized mortgages I've been hearing about.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Muscle Tracer posted:

Sounds a lot like one of those 75-year-amortized mortgages I've been hearing about.

It is. We could even move to an infinite amortization.

sleep with the vicious
Apr 2, 2010

Purgatory Glory posted:

It's RBC, and all the big banks (except Scotia) do not adjust your payments if the rates go up. You just see less go to principal and more to interest (and the amortization goes through the roof because of how little is being paid down). It's ugly but there are a couple things to consider at this moment:
1 These people did qualify for a higher payment and it looks like they chose not to increase theirs, even though they may be able to pay more.

2 Scotia, who is increasing payment amount every rate hike hasn't seen larger losses than the other big 5 who don't.its still early though and this is obviously not sustainable if the economy slows on top of this.

Ok so it's a variable rate with a fixed payment but that's standard for the big banks. I didn't know that, thought it was an option they could choose. Brutal.

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


PT6A posted:

It is. We could even move to an infinite amortization.

That just sounds like rent with extra fees.

Guest2553
Aug 3, 2012


Canada Housing/Debt: rent with extra fees

sleep with the vicious
Apr 2, 2010

Powershift posted:

That just sounds like rent with extra fees.

Except you get to leverage yourself to the hilt and also buy either jet skis or snowmobiles with your HELOC

large hands
Jan 24, 2006

PT6A posted:

It is. We could even move to an infinite amortization.

Hear me out... Housing NFTs

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


I hope those people go bankrupt

yippee cahier
Mar 28, 2005

PT6A posted:

Eventually there will be a kind of mortgage where you're just paying rent to the bank after a large downpayment, and there are fewer restrictions on what you can do and when you might get kicked out, but you're responsible for things that a landlord would normally take care of.

As I type this out, it seems like that wouldn't be all bad, as long as we're honest about what's going on.

We’re so close, we just have one final step: convincing people that the public should hold the title to the property instead of the bank.

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

Quite a bit of catnip in the Globe's Year in Charts if you feel the big problem around housing right now is immigration...

quote:

Stacking up
Ben Rabidoux, founder at Edge Realty Analytics and North Cove Advisors

Canada’s population grew by a whopping 1.2 million people in the past year despite a federal immigration target closer to 500,000. The discrepancy comes from the fact that non-permanent residents are not included in the federal immigration target and have not been subject to any meaningful restrictions or caps. So, the number of temporary workers and international students grew by 800,000, or nearly 50 per cent, in 2023 alone.



It’s important to understand the incentives at play here: Large corporations want cheap labour from temporary workers, while postsecondary institutions want to charge much higher tuition to international students – in some cases, five times more than Canadians. And that’s not even getting into the proliferation of seedy for-profit diploma mills that have sprung up across the country. The result has been an excessively tight rental market that disproportionately hurts low-income Canadians and puts non-permanent residents at risk. (Who can forget the headlines of international students living under bridges?)

Canada is a welcoming country, and I believe Canadians still support thoughtful immigration policies, but if current governments were actively trying to stoke anti-immigration sentiment, their efforts would be indistinguishable from current policies.

Mission accomplished from the POV of the immigration department. All provinces growing faster than the OECD.

quote:

Extreme times
Stéfane Marion, chief economist and strategist, National Bank of Canada

Immigration is becoming a sensitive issue in Canada as the impact of rapid population growth is being felt in many sectors of the economy, particularly housing and public services. While it’s true that an aging population in most OECD economies threatens potential future GDP growth, the question is how much we want to bring immigration policy forward to address this threat. As this chart shows, Canada’s population growth rate near the end of 2023 was 3.2 per cent, five times higher than the OECD average. What’s more, all 10 provinces grew at least twice as fast as the OECD, ranging from 1.3 per cent in Newfoundland to 4.3 per cent in Alberta.



We don’t deny that immigration improves Canada’s supply of workers and taxpayers, and that it strengthens our economic prospects in the long run. However, our country’s current population growth appears to be extreme in relation to the absorptive capacity of the economy and the fact that our work force is not aging faster than the OECD average.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-charts-canada-economy-2024/

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Fun Shoe
I’m torn between thinking this stuff is fairly important and deserves attention and that it’s just kinda obviously stoking insane anti immigrant sentiment. Kinda just paving a neat little path for the Conservative party.

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

I think

1. it is a real cause of problems.

2. "just stop immigration" as a solution is simply a way to turn off our brains and go back to the status quo, which only goes to benefit NIMBY established SFH owning wealth that wants a reason to not change their town in any way whatsoever or build any apartments.

So the answer is ~somewhere in the middle~

Diploma mills are a real problem.

We also need to actually build more homes for people (which means *shock* forcing neighbourhoods to build apartment buildings).

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

Despite there being some YIMBYs in caucus like Scott Aitchison, I don't think they have any real power at all.

I fully expect that a Conservative government approach to housing would be a regression to doing nothing and pointing to the need for 1) cutting fees, 2) suburban growth and more town development as the solution.

The Conservatives will see SFH owners as their voters and they will support them and the SFH status quo. This means the only possible development can be suburban SFH growth on greenfields.

RealityWarCriminal
Aug 10, 2016

:o:
It would be nice if there was some real industry for these people to work in rather than working in a tim's in an isolated town

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Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."




Femtosecond posted:

Despite there being some YIMBYs in caucus like Scott Aitchison, I don't think they have any real power at all.

I fully expect that a Conservative government approach to housing would be a regression to doing nothing and pointing to the need for 1) cutting fees, 2) suburban growth and more town development as the solution.

The Conservatives will see SFH owners as their voters and they will support them and the SFH status quo. This means the only possible development can be suburban SFH growth on greenfields.

IIRC the Conservative proposal is to try to force municipalities / provinces to relax their building codes. Which probably isn't legally possible, but also seems like a pretty terrible idea.

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