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Chadzok posted:nah you can't multitask for poo poo in VR. OP is exactly right, VR is a novelty/console because it hasn't yet done that whole replication phase. if apple can effectively replicate the experience of a desktop computer, a handheld smartphone, the TV in your other room, your laptop, etc etc, but all in the one device, that is the killer app. It has done the replication phase. It's just that it doesn't do anything better than the standard computing experience, so nobody cares about it. VR has the possibility of doing things above and beyond the capabilities of any other technology, and it's only started taking off with the Quest 2 now that it's cheap and easy to use enough that the friction of using the device is less of a barrier than the other inherent difficulties in doing VR stuff (namely that the most interesting things are more physical, so no matter how good the technology gets you aren't going to just be able to sit on your couch and have a great VR experience). Like, the headsets are already good enough to replicate a seated computer experience. It's just a novelty because it's not way better. It's a sidegrade at best which is not very compelling
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Jan 14, 2024 20:48
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Lemming posted:Like, the headsets are already good enough to replicate a seated computer experience. It's just a novelty because it's not way better. It's a sidegrade at best which is not very compelling first off, no they are not yet good enough to replicate a seated computer experience. second of all, you're not hearing me, it replaces all screens at once, not just the "seated computer experience". That is the thing it can potentially do better. I am definitely not arguing that the 1st gen apple headset will do what I'm saying. They're on the right track, though. Also, it's definitely not a given that the technology is actually capable of what I'm speculating at, and what Apple wants to achieve. May be hard technological limits on how small/light things can get. In which case the tech will always be a niche and will not see mass adoption on the scale of TVs, computers, smartphones. Chadzok fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 20:56
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My home office is also my gaming room and a problem I have with this combo lately is the feeling of just being in that room from work hours until evening recreation. Recently Ive been testing out working in VR(Im a video producer/editor so having lots of screen realestate is immensely helpful) and Ive found the few days I spend at least 3 or 4 hours in my virtual office creates that seperation of work and play that makes me not feel so stuck in my office. I also just feel more focused in my VR environment at times, the closed off feeling is super nice. Its like working in a nice quiet studio. This is a thing I think, with the improvements on friction and comfortably, that is and will be a huge selling point for VR/AR/Spatial work spaces.
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Jan 14, 2024 21:00
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Chadzok posted:first off, no they are not yet good enough to replicate a seated computer experience. I am hearing you. There are a lot of use cases where the headsets can replicate a monitor - current headsets like the Quest 3 work pretty acceptably if you bump the desktop size to 125%, and even the Quest 1 worked fine for that in a pinch. Quest 2 worked great for playing flatscreen games on a large screen. The problem is that even theoretically - none of this is actually better than computing at your desk. You still need a keyboard and nice chair to use a computer. In other cases, you need to be able to interface with the screens somehow, and waggling your hand in the air is less effective than using a touchscreen (like a phone). However, VR is already incredible at a lot of new things. Those are the things that will make the platform successful Edit: and, for what it's worth, most of the games being made by AAA studio at any point are completely along the lines of porting flatscreen games to VR. They have also universally been disappointments and not really gotten significant traction in the market Lemming fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 21:23
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SCheeseman posted:You don't need a tablet to cook any more than you need a book, but people use tablets and they use books. Video recipes/tutorials aren't niche, or you can throw something else on the virtual screen like a video podcast or whatever. I've watched a youtube video while cooking on my Quest 2. It was awesome, except for all the parts that you would expect to suck. Headset is too heavy, passthrough is absolutely terrible, the UX and general window management on Quest is a bit of a disaster. My attention wasn't 90% poking at the food though, I had enough down time to watch youtube essays, which was more enjoyable than listening to a podcast due to the visual element. I needed to wash my hands less (and dry them), which is a benefit, needing to do something less always is. I did the dishes afterwards, where I put the virtual display up and to the side. It was fine, turns out the video doesn't need to be in front of your face, you can put it wherever you want. Part of the perks of using virtual displays. A cookbook costs like thirty bucks, and a tablet costs a few hundred dollars (even iPads are below $500 now). The Apple Vision Pro costs $3500. Something that costs several thousand dollars really needs a strong reason to buy it. To put things into perspective, Google Glass cost $1500 when it was released 11 years ago, it was a 36-gram pair of glasses you could watch Youtube on, and it was such a commercial failure that it was pulled from the consumer market within two years (though the enterprise version continued to be sold to businesses up until last year). While Apple will surely do better with product design and marketing than Google did, they're still going to face a lot of the same fundamental problems, and they're also charging more than double the price for a headset that weighs more than 10x as much. I don't think AR is fundamentally unworkable. But I think that current AR headsets have pretty much the same problem as VR headsets: they charge way too much for uncomfortable headsets that don't really have all that many compelling consumer uses, and I don't really get the impression that the Vision Pro itself is going to change that. It may lead to future models that do solve those problems, but for now it kinda seems like Apple is hoping to bulldoze through them with sheer marketing power and then hope that it lays the foundations for future development. Everyone bought smartphones eventually, but that doesn't mean they bought one of these:   For the most part, people waited for something quite a bit more advanced than what the first self-proclaimed "smartphones" on the market were capable of. Until then, they were just fine with their Nokias. It took a fair few years of development before smartphones were able to offer a significant improvement over what flip phones could do while also maintaining acceptable size, weight, and battery life.
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Jan 14, 2024 22:27
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TIP posted:I don't think physically impossible is true. I mean, there's already a company that's surprisingly far along in making AR contact lenses that have a microLED display, ARM processor, IMU, battery, 5ghz radio, and wireless recharging. First of all, this is incredible and thank you for the link. Secondly, would you prefer contact lenses or glasses for a day-to-day AR overlay? Third, I know absolutely nothing about this field and am going to sound like a complete moron, but I have some theoretical questions. Before I get to those, though, it's worth noting that their placement of the projector/display in the eye's natural blind spot feels like a no-brainer that never even occurred to me. Every one of us has a blind spot in the center of each eye that our brain fills in naturally. This is where the ocular nerve connects, and we have no rod or cone cells to receive information. I'm a big fan of this placement, even if I dislike their current UI. It's a prototype  Also, for these contact lenses, the UI/navigation is based on eye movement/focus, but how far are we from thought-based navigation from something like Neuralink? (I'm genuinely asking because I genuinely don't know. I'm also philosophically very against the idea of neural chips.) If thought-based navigation is next on the horizon, how do you distinguish impulsive thoughts from intentional requests? (Freudian 'id' vs 'superego'.) You don't want every stray thought to navigate your menus, divert your focus, or select options for you. *** What ability do we currently have to read and interpret that level of nuance of brain function/brain waves? It seems futile, at this point, to design any of these technologies individually without allowing for the possibility of linking to a larger network/system. So, designing all the infrastructure from the ground up in a way that universally accommodates multiple technologies seems to be the most efficient way to advance all of them as a whole. There have to be companies/people working on this, and I am genuinely interested. Can anyone point me in the right direction to see what's going on? *** Unless one of your goals is a society with overall more disciplined thoughts. That may seem superficially beneficial (raising the floor on a lot of mental health issues and basic functioning) but throwing neurodivergence out the window may cost society more than a universal standard of trained cognition would afford. databasic fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jan 14, 2024 |
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Jan 14, 2024 23:17
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Vizuyos posted:A cookbook costs like thirty bucks, and a tablet costs a few hundred dollars (even iPads are below $500 now). The Apple Vision Pro costs $3500. Something that costs several thousand dollars really needs a strong reason to buy it. I don't think Vision Pro will be a mass market success, though clearly Apple doesn't either. When looking back at technological history there's a ton of products that you can point to that weren't successes but 'had to be made', with their creation helping to iterate the design, hardware and software to allow for the eventual breakout product. I think Vision Pro is an attempt to do this, a sort of technological bootstrap or as you say, laying the foundations. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jan 15, 2024 |
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Jan 15, 2024 02:54
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The AVP is 100% them laying the foundations for Apple Glasses 10 or 15 years down the line, starting with the "no controllers" design because the whole point is to eventually make something you just wear out and about wherever, instead of having a dedicated Place For VR like everyone else's hardware and software design centers around. I think the closest thing to a current competitor in the space they want to conquer is the XREAL, which is coming from the less impressive but much more immediately practical side of taking a pair of oversized novelty sunglasses you can feasibly wear in public without too many funny looks and seeing how much stuff they can fit into them.
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Jan 15, 2024 10:29
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the citra 3DS emulator is getting a quest-native port, with stereo display for the top screen https://www.uploadvr.com/quest-3ds-emulator-citra-vr/
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Jan 15, 2024 16:11
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repiv posted:the citra 3DS emulator is getting a quest-native port, with stereo display for the top screen Oh poo poo this looks awesome
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Jan 15, 2024 16:16
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The 3D in the 3DS was super underrated, this is dope
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Jan 15, 2024 16:56
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repiv posted:the citra 3DS emulator is getting a quest-native port, with stereo display for the top screen Ive been using Citra and SBS 3D in Virtual Desktop but this is amazing. Lemming posted:The 3D in the 3DS was super underrated, this is dope Hell yes it was. Zelda A Link Between Worlds is still my favorite modern Zelda. Ocarina of Time 3D and Majoras Mask 3D are amazing too. Kid Icarus Uprising would probably be incredible in VR 3D with all of the flying sequences. 3DS had some real bangers.
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Jan 15, 2024 19:35
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Lemming posted:The 3D in the 3DS was super underrated, this is dope didn't help that the auto-stereo in the first gen units wasn't very good, they didn't really nail it until the new 3ds
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Jan 15, 2024 19:42
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Finally getting around to putting SideQuest onto my Quest 3. Very excited to see Doom 3's updated lighting. Seeing the Citra announcement and having the day off is what spurred this. I've got HL, Doom 3, Jedi Outcast and I should probably look into Quake 4
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Jan 15, 2024 20:40
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One of my Index controllers died on me. Was stuck power cycling/red flashing LED for a long time, then started working again for a day or so, but now after being on for a few minutes it gets super choppy then freezes. Apparently if I want to buy a single Index controller, I am cordially invited to gently caress Myself? Anyone else had to deal with this bullshit?
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Jan 15, 2024 22:53
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Beastie posted:Finally getting around to putting SideQuest onto my Quest 3. Very excited to see Doom 3's updated lighting. Seeing the Citra announcement and having the day off is what spurred this. let me know if you find a release for quake 4. i saw a very shaky looking alpha on team beef's patreon. im the guy who thinks quake 4 was pretty ok, action wise, for its time
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Jan 15, 2024 23:14
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I've only ever played the 360 demos for Prey and Quake 4 so I figured if they got cheap enough it'd be cool to play them in VR as my first playthrough. Didn't realized Quake 4 was iffy, will probably do Prey first then
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Jan 15, 2024 23:18
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please get zwift working in vr even if wearing the headset will be way too loving hot thanks guys
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Jan 16, 2024 01:02
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Quake 3 is very good though, albeit it's an arena shooter. The singleplayer campaign is pretty fun.
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Jan 16, 2024 01:16
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LIterallyABikeshop posted:please get zwift working in vr even if wearing the headset will be way too loving hot thanks guys Hell yeah on all counts, including the inevitable heatstroke going up the volcano
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Jan 16, 2024 05:06
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TIP posted:I don't think physically impossible is true. I mean, there's already a company that's surprisingly far along in making AR contact lenses that have a microLED display, ARM processor, IMU, battery, 5ghz radio, and wireless recharging. This is cool AF
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Jan 16, 2024 05:18
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repiv posted:the citra 3DS emulator is getting a quest-native port, with stereo display for the top screen Oh this is awesome news, because Lemming posted:The 3D in the 3DS was super underrated, this is dope
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Jan 16, 2024 05:33
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The coolest thing about this news isn't the Citra port, which is very cool, but that in the process of porting it they created a GPL compatible OpenXR library. This is great for emulators which are often licensed under copyleft, but it also allows any other GPL application to have native OpenXR support. Granted there's been ports regardless of this but they've been a bit shaky legally. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Jan 16, 2024 |
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Jan 16, 2024 06:32
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Mr. Bad Guy posted:One of my Index controllers died on me. Was stuck power cycling/red flashing LED for a long time, then started working again for a day or so, but now after being on for a few minutes it gets super choppy then freezes. If nothing else, definitely put in a support ticket with Valve. I don't know how much of it was luck or courtesy, but Valve at two separate times replaced base stations for me free of charge.
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Jan 16, 2024 08:19
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Mr. Bad Guy posted:One of my Index controllers died on me. Was stuck power cycling/red flashing LED for a long time, then started working again for a day or so, but now after being on for a few minutes it gets super choppy then freezes. Valve sells individual controllers. Unfortunately when the trigger went bad on my left controller, they were out of left controllers, so I wound up having to hit up ebay.
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Jan 16, 2024 21:07
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dudes ears are fighting for their life here https://twitter.com/richontech/status/1747322103127515619 (apparently it comes with an optional top strap in the box but apple really don't want to show it in that configuration for some reason)
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Jan 17, 2024 00:57
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Can't have people ruining their hair in the Youtube thumbnail.
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Jan 17, 2024 00:58
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repiv posted:dudes ears are fighting for their life here he really looks like a dork! not really any more or less embarassing than wearing any headset though
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Jan 17, 2024 01:01
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repiv posted:dudes ears are fighting for their life here When Zuck was showing off the Quest Pro he had the exact same thing going on, it’s so weird.
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Jan 17, 2024 01:06
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njsykora posted:Can't have people ruining their hair in the Youtube thumbnail. 100% this.
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Jan 17, 2024 01:09
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Just be a bald youtuber with a skull somewhere in the background, e-z
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Jan 17, 2024 01:09
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it just looks like a quest 3 with a visor instead of cameras at the front
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Jan 17, 2024 01:10
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funny how they're still not letting anyone see the eye display in action this close to release they're cutting it close if the software isn't ready
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Jan 17, 2024 01:12
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if it doesnt let you give yourself alien/robot/cat eyes it has completely failed as a product
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Jan 17, 2024 01:14
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they patented anime eye technology if that makes it into the final product it will probably be based on those horrible animoji faces though
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Jan 17, 2024 01:20
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Al! posted:if it doesnt let you give yourself alien/robot/cat eyes it has completely failed as a product
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Jan 17, 2024 02:04
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Some more frank impressions have been coming out -- lots of complaints about the weight with the default strap (without a band going over the top of the head). Apple really went for style over functionality with that it's looking like. There's a secondary strap included that is apparently a lot better.
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Jan 17, 2024 02:48
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Koramei posted:Some more frank impressions have been coming out -- lots of complaints about the weight with the default strap (without a band going over the top of the head). Apple really went for style over functionality with that it's looking like. There's a secondary strap included that is apparently a lot better. There's something I find really bizarre about them including both. Apple doesn't normally make the internal battle between style and functionality this blatant.
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Jan 17, 2024 03:21
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Roadie posted:There's something I find really bizarre about them including both. Apple doesn't normally make the internal battle between style and functionality this blatant. jony ive, please, my people yearn for a singularly built non-functional piece of poo poo
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Jan 17, 2024 04:52
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Roadie posted:There's something I find really bizarre about them including both. Apple doesn't normally make the internal battle between style and functionality this blatant. Eh, it's bodies.. They're tough to design for! The Apple Watch comes in two face sizes and has two different wrist strap lengths, I can't imagine how much nonsense goes into making something comfortable for many different kinds of heads. Plus, I think Apple wants the headset to be accessible+fashionable to more people than just the bald tech people who are not negatively impacted by an upper head strap 
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