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hirai isnt my favorite character designer ever but hes good at shonen exaggeration like scryed and blobbiness like majestic prince, and seed is too stoic to allow for either. some of the base character designs are decent but they dont come across well in the animation at all.
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Jan 15, 2024 19:46
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Endorph posted:hirai isnt my favorite character designer ever but hes good at shonen exaggeration like scryed and blobbiness like majestic prince, and seed is too stoic to allow for either. some of the base character designs are decent but they dont come across well in the animation at all. I honestly don't think either of those are to his credit but the credit of the animation teams. His still art for most of the series looks basically identical and it's genuinely the animators who manage to give them more personality. If you ever look through his art books it's hilariously obvious, though he does appear to have the ability to break outside his mold if he wants since he has some more unique designs, he just seems to save them exclusively for extremely horny art.
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Jan 15, 2024 19:54
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There are actual different body types in MJP, so you don't get everybody being hair-swapped clones of the same 4 templates (young male, young female, adult male, adult female). I can't think of a single muscular or overweight person in either GS or GSD, but they exist in MJP even if they're stock archetype support characters. Saying that all of his series are the same level of bad underplays from how some of them are genuinely quantifiably worse, which is worth pointing out because Seed Freedom's characters legitimately look like parodies, which is the main reason we're having this conversation in the first place.
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Jan 15, 2024 21:05
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GimmickMan posted:There are actual different body types in MJP, so you don't get everybody being hair-swapped clones of the same 4 templates (young male, young female, adult male, adult female). I can't think of a single muscular or overweight person in either GS or GSD, but they exist in MJP even if they're stock archetype support characters. There are overweight or beefy people, they're just side characters. Kisaka is built like a brick shithouse for example:  Which stands out because like 3/4ths of Hirai's beefy character designs look identical to Kisaka with different hair/skin color. The SEED Freedom designs look worse largely because of the weird-rear end lip thing more than anything else, but I genuinely think some of his other stuff is as bad or worse than Gundam SEED. Heroic Age made me loving wish for Gundam SEED's designs. 
ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Jan 15, 2024 |
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Jan 15, 2024 21:14
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Fair on different body types existing. I guess they're not as noticeable in CE. It's not just the lipsticks on GSF though. The proportions are all sorts of hosed up. Apologies for imagespam.   These are probably the two most meme'd new designs, and for good reason. One is a bobblehead and the other I genuinely cannot tell if he's a child pretending to be an adult or a short adult. Now compare them to older designs:   Waltfeld's head is a lot smaller compared to the rest of his body and Shinn actually looks like a teenager at a glance (at least by anime standards). Whatever the hell Hirai's doing is most noticeable on new characters, because at least he's trying to make the old cast look like themselves. But even returning characters have some differences. Here's old Murrue and new Murrue.   New Murrue has a flatter head and the more rigid shoulders that make the arms shorter, adding to the funko factor. She's not quite on the same level as the others, but you can see she's nudged a little closer to that end of the scale now. Sorry these pictures kind of suck for comparisons, I tried to get old Murrue in uniform plus older characters that resembled the new ones but fandom has made looking up and linking character designs a mess so I ended up going with what I could find. I hope it's enough to help convey my point.
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Jan 15, 2024 22:04
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ImpAtom posted:I honestly don't think either of those are to his credit but the credit of the animation teams. Is that not part of the point? And I'm being genuine with this question, since I don't know the answer for definite, but I would assume part of the purpose of a character design is to allow for a design that the animation team can animate in a variety of situations (hence initial designs often include expressions and poses that aren't even used in show) and the easier and quicker it is for them the better to at least some degree. I assume part of the attraction of Hirai as a character designer from a studio point of view is that he creates very simple designs that the animation team can get a hang of and finish for individual frames very easily, but that also has the secondary benefit that it's easy to animate them in more extreme animations easily because again, they're just simpler by design. The problem with CE stuff at that point being that there is no variety of situations and extremes and the writing puts everything in the same melodramatic tone across the board so that the characters are never given reason to be animated in situations that can give them more personality when most other Gundam shows do tend to allow more variety in writing and tone. The fact that you said yourself that he can break that mold, but only does it for horny art is even somewhat indicative of that since it indicates he just creates simpler and more generic designs since that's what he's paid to create by studios but tends to draw more complex designs when left to his own devices i.e. for horniess. tsob fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jan 15, 2024 |
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Jan 15, 2024 22:20
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GimmickMan posted:Sorry these pictures kind of suck for comparisons, I tried to get old Murrue in uniform plus older characters that resembled the new ones but fandom has made looking up and linking character designs a mess so I ended up going with what I could find. I hope it's enough to help convey my point. Oh no, I get your point, but I think a big chunk of that is actually the uniforms, which tended to have that problem even before Freedom. Ramias in SEED Destiny's uniformed look for example is not much different.   Freedom is amplifying it largely by making all the designs the kind of stuff Hirai is bad at which only amplifies the bobblehead, though like his other designs that gets toned down in the series. tsob posted:Is that not part of the point? And I'm being genuine with this question, since I don't know the answer for definite, but I would assume part of the purpose of a character design is to allow for a design that the animation team can animate in a variety of situations (hence initial designs often include expressions and poses that aren't even used in show) and the easier and quicker it is for them the better to at least some degree. I assume part of the attraction of Hirai as a character designer from a studio point of view is that he creates very simple designs that the animation team can get a hang of finish for individual frames very easily, but that also has the secondary benefit that it's easy to animate them in more extreme animations easily because again, they're just simpler by design. Eh, there's always a balance, but Hirai goes so far in on the simple-to-animate that a lot of the better animated stuff in stuff he worked on basically doesn't resemble his style at all because it's gone so far off model. A good character design will look good either way, while the professional ones Hirai has turned in over the last... two decades or so have been largely a case of "This looks awful but the animation can make it off-model enough to look better" which is why you have the bizarreness of SEED HD frequently looking worse by being more on model.
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Jan 15, 2024 22:25
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ImpAtom posted:Eh, there's always a balance, but Hirai goes so far in on the simple-to-animate that a lot of the better animated stuff in stuff he worked on basically doesn't resemble his style at all because it's gone so far off model. A good character design will look good either way, while the professional ones Hirai has turned in over the last... two decades or so have been largely a case of "This looks awful but the animation can make it off-model enough to look better" which is why you have the bizarreness of SEED HD frequently looking worse by being more on model. I don't see that it matters if it matches his style so long as it stays vaguely consistent with his actual designs, and Shinn doesn't suddenly morph into another short, black haired character like I-No unintentionally or something because the actual identifiers of his character become so lost. A character designer is not hired to create a visual style for the show, only to create the base character models.
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Jan 15, 2024 22:30
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Here have something cool related to Gundam Seed - Nami Tamaki doing believe - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmFIZd7BrM8
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Jan 15, 2024 23:48
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it's definitely why i also brought up fafner, because it has the same problems as seed and is too serious for animators to make characters move super distinctly, but isn't a bad anime separate from the character designs like seed is
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Jan 16, 2024 01:31
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ImpAtom posted:Oh no, I get your point, but I think a big chunk of that is actually the uniforms, which tended to have that problem even before Freedom. Ramias in SEED Destiny's uniformed look for example is not much different. I am willing to give this the benefit of the doubt. Characters in casual clothes do tend to look more relaxed and less rigid, and the proportions looking wrong could be partly a perspective problem born of posing. There's also the fact that, this being Gundam, and a movie on top of that, pretty much everybody is in uniforms and as you've pointed out uniforms do purposefully make people look the same, making Hirai's sameface problem much more apparent. I do think it will look much better in motion (because at that point it's in the hands of animators) though.
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Jan 16, 2024 02:47
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https://twitter.com/dearcrowns/status/1747091826048135426?t=iBxUlXUlK_IWhYBTpErvdw&s=19
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Jan 16, 2024 04:51
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The tone shift in ZZ is insane
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Jan 16, 2024 05:30
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brand engager posted:The tone shift in ZZ is insane I mean yeah. You're always going to have tonal differences when you go from something animated to something that is not.
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Jan 16, 2024 19:23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbWIGKAIXwc Lol at the "Heavy"-arms
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Jan 17, 2024 03:19
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 gundam evo...
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Jan 17, 2024 03:25
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I feel like Gundam Evolution would have done better if it had lore. A setting that explained why these MS were all fighting, and maybe even new pilot characters for each of them, so there personalities and relationships involved.
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Jan 17, 2024 03:31
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i doubt that would have made a meaningful difference wrt any of the actual reasons it didn't succeed but it would've been neat
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Jan 17, 2024 03:50
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Yeah, that wouldn't have fixed the monetization, the balance, the lackluster suit lineup, the lack of backfill, Barbatos being a threat
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Jan 17, 2024 04:06
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make barbatos stronger tbh
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Jan 17, 2024 04:10
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You've not seen the last of Barbatos Slim!
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Jan 17, 2024 04:12
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Waffleman_ posted:Yeah, that wouldn't have fixed the monetization, the balance, the lackluster suit lineup, the lack of backfill, Barbatos being a threat Characters people can make art of and ship is pretty crucial for creating the kind of community to sustain a game like that. and yeah Barbatos wasn't strong enough
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Jan 17, 2024 04:37
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Gripweed posted:I feel like Gundam Evolution would have done better if it had lore. A setting that explained why these MS were all fighting, and maybe even new pilot characters for each of them, so there personalities and relationships involved. Should've made it a breaker or build spinoff. At least then the silly like, flame decal skins would have made a bit more sense if it was just a bunch of dorks playing with their gunpla.
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Jan 17, 2024 05:02
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I imagine when it inevitably got to the Freedom Gundam it would play like Pharah
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Jan 17, 2024 06:54
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they should give us exvs2 even if its just xboost, cmon, please
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Jan 17, 2024 07:13
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While you do need a decent game to actually make it given the amount of other gacha/live service games having characters people like/want to ship and a good story can do a fair amount of heavy lifting for a game. \
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Jan 17, 2024 07:39
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i think gundam evolution's shipping culture was "the entire pre-existing gundam fanbase" some banter during the game would've been a nice touch though
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Jan 17, 2024 07:40
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they should have super robot wars'd it or something and just had the actual anime characters there
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Jan 17, 2024 07:42
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The roster picks definitely feel like it was a project that was supposed to be small and unnoticed, but overwatch 2 was making GBS threads the bed pre-launch and they got a temp rise to prominence and fell off after that.
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Jan 17, 2024 07:42
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ninjewtsu posted:i think gundam evolution's shipping culture was "the entire pre-existing gundam fanbase" There was banter during a game, it was just all done by faceless, nameless pilots.
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Jan 17, 2024 11:45
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At least one of them was Goku's English VA so that was pretty good
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Jan 17, 2024 11:56
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well, what could they do? there was a sudden shortage of anime characters.
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Jan 17, 2024 12:10
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Is the dub for SEED streaming anywhere? I don’t see it on YouTube or crunchyroll.
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Jan 17, 2024 17:27
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Maybe Check CR's seasons for SEED? they have an annoying habit of marking dub tracks as a separate season.
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Jan 17, 2024 17:36
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SatoshiMiwa posted:While you do need a decent game to actually make it given the amount of other gacha/live service games having characters people like/want to ship and a good story can do a fair amount of heavy lifting for a game. \ I cannot overstate how disinterested I am in a horny waifu Gundam game. This is coming from someone who may have been described as a porpoise (not rich enough to be a whale, but with enough disposable income to spend well above average) for Gundam Breaker Mobile, a game which had at least a handful of horny waifu events. It would of course probably work because more people are willing to spend silly amounts of money gambling for anime titty JPEGs than robot JPEGs.
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Jan 17, 2024 19:59
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Given the history of Gundam fandom I would think they'd lean more towards boy/male pilots of all stytles for the female audience
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Jan 17, 2024 20:11
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SatoshiMiwa posted:Given the history of Gundam fandom I would think they'd lean more towards boy/male pilots of all stytles for the female audience Brooding guys with Complicated Emotions, cute girls with big boobs. It's the classic formula.
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Jan 17, 2024 22:10
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new gundam game but there are somehow even more sthesias nobody acknowledges it
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Jan 17, 2024 22:45
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did someone say horny waifu gundam game
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Jan 17, 2024 23:03
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Lalah Sune was a young woman who may very well have become a waifu to me!
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Jan 17, 2024 23:38
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