(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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Anyway, the official demographic data is out from China, and it lost 2.08 million but honestly the answer more than anything perhaps looking it as a whole is more COVID than anything else. Their excess deaths in 2023 were 1,100,000 higher than 2020, which suggests something dramatic happen, some of that is from an aging population but the vast majority was probably from COVID; births were also down from the previous year but again it may also be COVID related considering the excess deaths were so high. Basically, China by opening up in late 2022, in all likelihood saw a wave of excess deaths though early 2023 and this probably did still have a chilling effect on births. However, marriages were up 5% from 2022 which may mean 2024 would be different just based on taking COVID mostly out of the equation. Also, China by locking down reduced the deaths it took (it would probably be 7-14 million otherwise) but it didn’t really eliminate them based on the data. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 17:00 on Jan 17, 2024 |
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Jan 17, 2024 14:53
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Ardennes posted:Anyway, I believe the official demographic data is out from China, and it lost 2 million but honestly the answer more than anything perhaps is simply COVID. Their excess deaths in 2023 were 1,100,000 higher than 2020, some of that is from an aging population but the vast majority was probably from COVID, births were also down from the previous year but again it may also be COVID related considering the excess deaths were so high. Yeah, the extrapolation from based on data from Hong Kong was something like 1.5 million deaths for opening up, so that's a plausible number.
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Jan 17, 2024 15:02
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genericnick posted:Yeah, the extrapolation from based on data from Hong Kong was something like 1.5 million deaths for opening up, so that's a plausible number. There may also been a couple hundred thousand deaths in 2021-2022, some of them were from lockdown areas but it very well may be there were always some pockets of COVID in China. We are talking about a country of 1.3-1.4 billion people, so it is very possible there was always a degree of COVID on the loose in rural areas, but it very well may have been pushed out of the cities only to occasionally come back forcing thus lockdowns. Yeah, it clearly was far more extremely at the end of 2022-early 2023 and that is when the vast majority of deaths happened. It is also hard to get much of it is in broader demographics because China while in 2018-2019 slowdown in numbers of births, clearly COVID had a far outsized effect on both birth rates and death rates. For China, 2024 would be really its first true post-COVID year.
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Jan 17, 2024 16:58
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https://twitter.com/ninadn21/status/1746913569952706684?t=re_rot1q6TAO0PblvUTPaA&s=19 Low emission shipping is nice
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Jan 17, 2024 21:07
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Is it riverine or seagoing?
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Jan 17, 2024 23:03
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Chinese researchers isolated and mapped the virus that causes Covid-19 in late December 2019, at least two weeks before Beijing revealed details of the deadly virus to the world, congressional investigators said, raising questions anew about what China knew in the pandemic’s crucial early days. Documents obtained from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services by a House committee and reviewed by The Wall Street Journal show that a Chinese researcher in Beijing uploaded a nearly complete sequence of the virus’s structure to a U.S. government-run database on Dec. 28, 2019. Chinese officials at that time were still publicly describing the disease outbreak in Wuhan, China, as a viral pneumonia “of unknown cause” and had yet to close the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, site of one of the initial Covid-19 outbreaks. China only shared the virus’s sequence with the World Health Organization on Jan. 11, 2020, according to U.S. government timelines of the pandemic. The new information doesn’t shed light on the debate over whether Covid emerged from an infected animal or a lab leak, but it suggests that the world still doesn’t have a full accounting of the pandemic’s origin. The extra two weeks could have proved crucial in helping the international medical community pinpoint how Covid-19 spread, develop medical defenses and get started on an eventual vaccine, specialists have said. In late 2019, scientists and governments worldwide were racing to understand the mystery disease eventually named Covid-19 that would kill millions and sicken many more. It “underscores how cautious we have to be about the accuracy of the information that the Chinese government has released,” said Jesse Bloom, a virologist at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center in Seattle who has reviewed the documents and the recently discovered gene sequence. “It’s important to keep in mind how little we know.” The Chinese researcher who submitted the virus sequence, Dr. Lili Ren of the Beijing-based Institute of Pathogen Biology, didn’t respond to an email seeking comment. The institute is part of the state-affiliated Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences. “China has kept refining our COVID response based on science to make it more targeted,” a Chinese Embassy spokesperson said. “China’s COVID response policies are science-based, effective, and consistent with China’s national realities. They can stand the test of history.” The documents describing a new timeline were obtained by Republicans on the House Energy and Commerce Committee after the committee threatened to subpoena HHS. Melanie Egorin, HHS assistant secretary for legislation, wrote last month to the committee’s chair, Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R., Wash.), that Ren submitted the virus sequence on Dec. 28, 2019, to a genetic database, GenBank, run by the U.S. National Institutes of Health. The first known publication of the sequence of the Covid virus, called SARS-CoV-2, came on Jan. 11, 2020, after Chinese authorities shared the information with the World Health Organization. In addition, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta says the virus sequence was shared within China with China’s equivalent of the CDC on Jan. 5 but not made known globally to scientists. The sequence that Ren provided in December 2019 was never published and was deleted from the database on Jan. 16, 2020, after NIH, following its protocols, asked her for more technical details and she didn’t respond, Egorin wrote. It is unclear why Ren didn’t respond. On Jan. 12, NIH received and published a SARS-CoV-2 sequence from another source. “The sequence published on Jan. 12, 2020, was nearly identical to the sequence that was submitted by Lili Ren,” Egorin told the committee. The discovery that a researcher in the state-affiliated Chinese lab had isolated and mapped the virus well before Beijing revealed publicly that it had done so shows the U.S. “cannot trust any of the so-called ‘facts’ or data provided by the CCP and calls into serious question the legitimacy of any scientific theories based on such information,” McMorris Rodgers said in a statement. The committee has spent months probing Covid’s origins, U.S. government funding of overseas research and other issues. Having the virus information two weeks earlier “would have helped in the early stages of the outbreak,” particularly with putting a more effective testing regimen in place, said Richard Ebright, a microbiologist at Rutgers University. Bloom, the virologist at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center, wrote on the GitHub platform that “immediate public release of the sequence could have accelerated by several weeks the development of COVID-19 vaccines that saved thousands of lives per week in the United States alone.” HHS and NIH didn’t respond to requests for comment on why information about Ren’s submission wasn’t made public earlier. While the existence of an accurate Covid virus sequence in a U.S. database wasn’t previously known, Ren has written in the past about her search for Covid’s causes. In a May 2020 article in Chinese Medical Journal, a scientific publication, she and her colleagues described how samples were taken from five patients at a hospital in Wuhan, China, between Dec. 18 and Dec. 29, 2019. Sequencing, they wrote, revealed the presence of a new coronavirus “that is associated with severe and fatal respiratory disease in humans.” Ren is listed in contract documents as being a collaborator on a U.S.-funded project to study how coronaviruses can be transferred from animals to humans. The work, which included collecting bat samples in China, was overseen by the nonprofit EcoHealth Alliance. The Journal has previously reported that Chinese specialists met with the World Health Organization in Beijing on Jan. 3, 2020, but didn’t disclose that the new disease was caused by a coronavirus, a fact Chinese officials already knew. “This [database] submission shows that in fact, at least by Dec. 28, 2019, scientists within China did know this pneumonia was being caused” by a new coronavirus, said Bloom, the virologist at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center in Seattle.
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Jan 18, 2024 02:34
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Orange Devil posted:Is it riverine or seagoing? riverine, designed for the Yangtze https://maritime-executive.com/article/china-launches-first-700-teu-electric-containership-for-yangtze-service an interesting and smart move is having the batteries containerized in 20ft container units so existing cargo equipment can be used to swap them out.
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Jan 18, 2024 02:46
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Ardennes posted:Anyway, the official demographic data is out from China, and it lost 2.08 million but honestly the answer more than anything perhaps looking it as a whole is more COVID than anything else. Their excess deaths in 2023 were 1,100,000 higher than 2020, which suggests something dramatic happen, some of that is from an aging population but the vast majority was probably from COVID; births were also down from the previous year but again it may also be COVID related considering the excess deaths were so high. Imagine how many lives zero-covid saved
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Jan 18, 2024 02:48
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unwantedplatypus posted:Imagine how many lives zero-covid saved My profits!!!!!!
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Jan 18, 2024 03:15
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Some Guy TT posted:Chinese researchers isolated and mapped the virus that causes Covid-19 in late December 2019, at least two weeks before Beijing revealed details of the deadly virus to the world, congressional investigators said, raising questions anew about what China knew in the pandemic’s crucial early days. This kind of story is always fun because definitely those two weeks would have changed everything. The us govt may have responded by early amrch instead of the middle of march! wow!
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Jan 18, 2024 03:45
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i like to imagine how quickly the us would have responded and what they woulda done if it had originated in chicago or something instead
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Jan 18, 2024 03:50
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https://twitter.com/conzmoleman/status/1747416609960890709 really puts into perspective what us think tankers are complaining about when the taliban are cultivating wheat instead of heroin
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Jan 18, 2024 04:36
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fart simpson posted:i like to imagine how quickly the us would have responded and what they woulda done if it had originated in chicago or something instead During COVID one of the new variants was identified in South Africa because we have good virology departments. Everyone called it the South African variant, even though our researchers indicated that the variant had not originated here. I like to imagine that COVID actually did originate in the USA, and then notice that it's hard to see how it would play out any differently.
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Jan 18, 2024 06:29
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Votskomit posted:During COVID one of the new variants was identified in South Africa because we have good virology departments. Everyone called it the South African variant, even though our researchers indicated that the variant had not originated here. spanish flu likely originated in america and is called spanish flu because spain was the first country to report on and do anything about it
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Jan 18, 2024 06:44
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Votskomit posted:During COVID one of the new variants was identified in South Africa because we have good virology departments. Everyone called it the South African variant, even though our researchers indicated that the variant had not originated here. it originated in belgium.
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Jan 18, 2024 06:46
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fart simpson posted:a qr code on every tree that tells you what type of tree it is, how old it is, and how tall it was last time it was measured. siri, subscribe to tree facts.
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Jan 18, 2024 06:55
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in this thread, we believe COVID originated in Fort Detrick
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Jan 18, 2024 07:05
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fart simpson posted:spanish flu likely originated in america and is called spanish flu because spain was the first country to report on and do anything about it Funny coincidence cause COVID came from Fort Detrick
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Jan 18, 2024 07:21
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crepeface posted:siri, subscribe to tree facts. the park nearest to my apartment has every single tree tagged, i dont know if all the parks are that well covered or not. but also most of the trees on the roadside are tagged too. so here's two trees from the street outside my office you can see the little qr code tied up to the trunk:  i scanned the code and it pulls up this tree's profile page. it has: a picture of the tree the tree's identification number the type of tree it is the scientific name of the species including the latin binary name, family and genus the category of tree this the shenzhen government classifies it as (in this case it's a roadside tree) the category of the "green space" it's in (in this case, roadside green space) the trunk diameter idk what the next one is referring to and it seems like its always empty age of the tree height of the tree the growth state (in this case, "normal") the management department responsible for this tree (in this case it's the "nanshan district urban management and comprehensive law enforcement bureau)   here's another tree near my office that i like. a 9.5 meter tall, 41 year old chinese banyan with a healthy 36cm trunk  
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Jan 18, 2024 07:47
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that rules so much
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Jan 18, 2024 07:48
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wow, china is such a surveillance state that even the trees are tracked!!!
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Jan 18, 2024 08:22
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fart simpson posted:the park nearest to my apartment has every single tree tagged, i dont know if all the parks are that well covered or not. but also most of the trees on the roadside are tagged too. so here's two trees from the street outside my office cant read
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Jan 18, 2024 08:46
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that’s why i translated it for you
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Jan 18, 2024 08:49
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Mandel Brotset posted:cant read immune to propaganda
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Jan 18, 2024 09:44
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It's loving over for the west https://twitter.com/PDChina/status/1747476338284359788?t=O85st8fKshkOv_EnshTYow&s=19
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Jan 18, 2024 09:58
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Even an illiterate is not immune to the propaganda embodied by this beautiful tree.
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Jan 18, 2024 10:22
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Sancho Banana posted:It's loving over for the west I've seen dogs ride skateboards but the only way a cat would engage in this sort of behaviour is if they were being trained under the threat of physical abuse
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Jan 18, 2024 10:25
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fart simpson posted:the park nearest to my apartment has every single tree tagged, i dont know if all the parks are that well covered or not. but also most of the trees on the roadside are tagged too. so here's two trees from the street outside my office Thanks for making me realize Nanshan has better and more comprehensive data quality for its trees than the housing corporation (Dutch providers of public housing, semi-governmental organizations) I work for has for its housing stock.
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Jan 18, 2024 10:56
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crepeface posted:I've seen dogs ride skateboards but the only way a cat would engage in this sort of behaviour is if they were being trained under the threat of physical abuse I bet that cat gets up to mischief on that skateboard. Cats love mischief
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Jan 18, 2024 11:14
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In Training posted:This kind of story is always fun because definitely those two weeks would have changed everything. The us govt may have responded by early amrch instead of the middle of march! wow! Lmao, remember the US literally flying people from the Diamond Princess everywhere across the country?
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Jan 18, 2024 11:17
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genericnick posted:Lmao, remember the US literally flying people from the Diamond Princess everywhere across the country? yeah lol
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Jan 18, 2024 11:20
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fart simpson posted:the park nearest to my apartment has every single tree tagged, i dont know if all the parks are that well covered or not. but also most of the trees on the roadside are tagged too. so here's two trees from the street outside my office Have you seen the municipal arborist work by any chance? I had the opportunity to meet with Chinese arborists in the world arborist forum this year, but didn't get a chance to talk about my very narrow interest which is the physical care and management of trees. From their presentations and conversations, I got the idea that most urban trees within China are less the 30 years old and have a mishmash of planting techniques and growth plans. I can see from the pictures that even tho that's a flowering ornamental that doesn't grow too big, those trees pits are too small, too close to the asphalt and it's gonna give the arborist in charge a headache. Im sure it's not just flowering ornamentals that they are planting so there are trees that are gonna grow larger with need for climber/pruners in the municipal payroll. The techniques and tools Chinese arborists are gonna use is what I'm really interested in. Also NYC has a robust tree map (no QR codes, they get ripped off by people immediately) that people can volunteer to help continue: https://tree-map.nycgovparks.org/
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Jan 18, 2024 11:48
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also uh am I going crazy? we’re mad at the devious Chinese for withholding COVID data from America . . . by hiding it in an American database? I guess it’s less a case of “the last place we’d look” and more of a case of “they know we aren’t going to look anywhere ever”
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Jan 18, 2024 11:50
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ughhhh posted:Have you seen the municipal arborist work by any chance? I had the opportunity to meet with Chinese arborists in the world arborist forum this year, but didn't get a chance to talk about my very narrow interest which is the physical care and management of trees. From their presentations and conversations, I got the idea that most urban trees within China are less the 30 years old and have a mishmash of planting techniques and growth plans. I can see from the pictures that even tho that's a flowering ornamental that doesn't grow too big, those trees pits are too small, too close to the asphalt and it's gonna give the arborist in charge a headache. Im sure it's not just flowering ornamentals that they are planting so there are trees that are gonna grow larger with need for climber/pruners in the municipal payroll. The techniques and tools Chinese arborists are gonna use is what I'm really interested in. ive seen them pruning trees in my neighborhood but i have literally no idea what im looking at and dont know crap about trees so i can't really comment on any of it. my neighborhood has one side street with some really big trees that distort the sidewalks their roots are growing under though, i can take some pictures later
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Jan 18, 2024 11:51
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crepeface posted:I've seen dogs ride skateboards but the only way a cat would engage in this sort of behaviour is if they were being trained under the threat of physical abuse poo poo that sucks. The west might still have a chance then.
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Jan 18, 2024 11:58
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fart simpson posted:yeah lol if only the Chinese had told us that SARS is bad
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Jan 18, 2024 12:14
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crepeface posted:I've seen dogs ride skateboards but the only way a cat would engage in this sort of behaviour is if they were being trained under the threat of physical abuse The cat has merely seen the light of Xi Jinping thought
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Jan 18, 2024 12:46
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it doesn't matter if it's a black cat or a white cat, as long as it shreds
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Jan 18, 2024 12:51
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ughhhh posted:Have you seen the municipal arborist work by any chance? I had the opportunity to meet with Chinese arborists in the world arborist forum this year, but didn't get a chance to talk about my very narrow interest which is the physical care and management of trees. From their presentations and conversations, I got the idea that most urban trees within China are less the 30 years old and have a mishmash of planting techniques and growth plans. I can see from the pictures that even tho that's a flowering ornamental that doesn't grow too big, those trees pits are too small, too close to the asphalt and it's gonna give the arborist in charge a headache. Im sure it's not just flowering ornamentals that they are planting so there are trees that are gonna grow larger with need for climber/pruners in the municipal payroll. The techniques and tools Chinese arborists are gonna use is what I'm really interested in. I dunno if this is super relevent, but I live in beijing, and a long time ago (maybe 30, 40 years), in an effort to stave off desertification, they planted a bunch of trees . the problem is they planted the wrong kind, so every spring, there's a huge amount of pollen flying around loving up everyones sinuses. the trees also smell like cum. it's a really lovely few weeks.
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Jan 18, 2024 12:53
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NoModsNoMasters69 posted:I dunno if this is super relevent, but I live in beijing, and a long time ago (maybe 30, 40 years), in an effort to stave off desertification, they planted a bunch of trees . the problem is they planted the wrong kind, so every spring, there's a huge amount of pollen flying around loving up everyones sinuses. the trees also smell like cum. it's a really lovely few weeks. lmfao
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Jan 18, 2024 12:54
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