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What hot hatch do you own? This poll is closed. |
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| Golf GTI / R / R32 |
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196 | 0.02% |
| Impreza WRX / STi |
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133 | 0.01% |
| Mazdaspeed 3 |
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92 | 0.01% |
| Veloster Turbo |
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20 | 0.00% |
| Focus ST |
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149 | 0.01% |
| Other Hot Hatch |
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230 | 0.02% |
| Elantra GT |
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1000001 | 99.92% |
| Total: | 1000821 votes | ||
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Travic posted:I've been driving a Civic Si and I absolutely love it. I've also gotten the car bug and now I want more. I was thinking about an FL5 Civic Type R. I know they're hard to get, but I might as well try right? I'm looking for the increased power and sharpness from the Type R. I'd be using it for my daily driver and some spirited back road driving. Little to no track time. It's pretty stiff. Comfort mode in the FL5 is stiffer than the FK8, even though the OEM wheels are smaller (19" vs 20"). Changing to 18s does help. The good news is that you can buy the Integra Type S ADS module ($200 or so, though on backorder at most places) and install it to get Integra Type S suspension settings, which I prefer after driving both. That's what I'm doing with mine. You could also just get an Integra Type S — though I think the FL5 jussssst barely feels worth its asking price, and to me the 7K premium for the ITS is too much. But if you're not in a rush I bet used ITS prices will be pretty good in a year or so.
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Jan 17, 2024 21:14
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Travic posted:I've been driving a Civic Si and I absolutely love it. I've also gotten the car bug and now I want more. I was thinking about an FL5 Civic Type R. I know they're hard to get, but I might as well try right? I'm looking for the increased power and sharpness from the Type R. I'd be using it for my daily driver and some spirited back road driving. Little to no track time. That's funny because virtually all of the reviews that compare hot hatches against one another call out the Civic Type R as the most daily-friendly of the bunch.
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Jan 17, 2024 21:20
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funny how the new Type R/ITS completely memory-holed the GR Corolla
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Jan 17, 2024 21:23
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It absolutely hasn't, if anything it's the ITS that got memory holed.
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Jan 17, 2024 21:30
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agreed. i was so excited for the integra coming back and its like. ehhhhhh..... GR is still more excitng at least on paper.
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Jan 17, 2024 21:34
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I saw the Integra Type S and it seems nice, it just doesn't excite me like the Type R does. No idea why. Maybe the price? Or maybe I'm just too attached to the Civic platform.Arishtat posted:That's funny because virtually all of the reviews that compare hot hatches against one another call out the Civic Type R as the most daily-friendly of the bunch. Yeah the reviews gave me kind of mixed messages. They seemed to agree "Great daily, best of the bunch, love it, still monstrously stiff." And since I can't test drive it I got worried. grahm posted:It's pretty stiff. Comfort mode in the FL5 is stiffer than the FK8, even though the OEM wheels are smaller (19" vs 20"). Changing to 18s does help. Ok so there are options. I may pull the trigger later this year then. Is that ADS module swap something any mechanic can do? :edit: Oh one other question. It comes on PS4S tires that last 7,500 miles. If I look up PS4S tires online it ways they last 30,000. Why is that? Travic fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jan 17, 2024 |
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Jan 17, 2024 22:27
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Travic posted:Ok so there are options. I may pull the trigger later this year then. Is that ADS module swap something any mechanic can do? I haven't looked at the install instructions but I think most owners do it themselves? That's what I'm planning on but I guess I should check. The tire life depends on how you drive — I'm not sure why there's a big quoted variance. 7,500 seems low unless you do track days on them, but 30K seems high to me. trilobite terror posted:funny how the new Type R/ITS completely memory-holed the GR Corolla The Type R has much better inputs and a much better interior BUT I would consider the GRC instead if it had better packaging. I think a lot of people were hyped on the idea of the car, but in reality it's not very practical for being a 174" long hatchback. I think that's the boring reason why it's not as desirable — it has a less usable interior than even the Golf R despite being longer. It's also less tail happy than the Golf R which is a bummer. There are also some dynamic problems like the AWD overheats and the interior really does look garbage for $40K. So it's not perfect, but despite all of this I like Toyotas and AWD is fun in the winter.
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Jan 17, 2024 23:30
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Arishtat posted:That's funny because virtually all of the reviews that compare hot hatches against one another call out the Civic Type R as the most daily-friendly of the bunch. I still argue the civic si / type r hasn’t been a hatch in generations. Also I am shocked that type r comes in more daily friendly than golf r, everything I had ever seen was that golf r was the most practical and closest to a daily. E: reborn integra being a lame sedan sucks. It should be a coupe, that’s what all the integras we fell in love with were. And the following RSXs werent bad either. Travic posted::edit: Oh one other question. It comes on PS4S tires that last 7,500 miles. If I look up PS4S tires online it ways they last 30,000. Why is that? Not all PS4S are made the same, they do make model specific ones that can have compound and such variations, I don’t know if that’s the case for the model, but it for like new M3. I also still would not expect only 7500 miles unless you beat the poo poo out of it constantly at grip limit. TheBacon fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jan 17, 2024 |
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Jan 17, 2024 23:39
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TheBacon posted:I still argue the civic si / type r hasn’t been a hatch in generations. Also I am shocked that type r comes in more daily friendly than golf r, everything I had ever seen was that golf r was the most practical and closest to a daily. the civic is gonna be more reliable
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Jan 17, 2024 23:48
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trilobite terror posted:funny how the new Type R/ITS completely memory-holed the GR Corolla They are moving about the same units "Still, the Civic Type R lagged behind the Toyota GR Corolla (5,739 units), and just pipped the Volkswagen Golf R (3,238). But, when you add in 1,871 sales of the Acura Integra Type S, a car mechanically almost identical to the Civic Type R, Honda gets a lot closer to the GR Corolla, with 5,216 cars sold. The Civic Si falls just shy of its closest rival, the Volkswagen GTI, with 7,451 sales." https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/civic-type-r-sales-represented-just-one-percent-of-civics-sold-in-2023/ar-AA1n8SDq
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Jan 17, 2024 23:51
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no lube so what posted:They are moving about the same units huh I guess I just see a lot more promo about the CTR/ITS than the Corolla, but that might be down to which car I’m personally more biased toward
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Jan 17, 2024 23:57
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Travic posted:I saw the Integra Type S and it seems nice, it just doesn't excite me like the Type R does. No idea why. Maybe the price? Or maybe I'm just too attached to the Civic platform. Manufacturers often get special snowflake blends of tires for installation at final assembly. My only context of that is high volume production, which the type R is not, so grain of salt. Accelerated wear vs the aftermarket version of the tire was expected and acceptable, on the order of 10 to 25 percent if memory serves. Again, not the same situation as the Type R. On the FK8, the difference between OEM 20s with OEM Continentals and the 18s with the PS4S was a bit more than the difference between Sport and Comfort. The PS4S lasted for about 30k miles, at which point I switched to the RE71RS and have not looked back. Honestly, the RE71RS seems almost as comfortable, still acceptable in the wet, and significantly better in the dry, I like it for both daily and AutoX. You can use full boost in 2nd gear on a good surface even with light steering input, while the PS4S would often let go even in a straight line in 2nd.
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Jan 17, 2024 23:58
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I’d also personally way more have the GR. Civic being more reliable is a very odd thing to bring up in that it is basically never discussed by any reviewers when talking about dailyable fun cars. Also the EA888 has been around for so long a lot of the issues have been worked out.
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Jan 18, 2024 00:05
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TheBacon posted:I’d also personally way more have the GR. I wouldn't worry about the EA888 but I would be nervous about everything else once the warranty runs out. The MK7 seems like it has done fine long-term, but I've read a lot of complaints about MK8 glitches on brand-new cars. I do think the Toyota/Honda perceived brand reliability is something to consider for resale value. Also spending any amount of time at a dealer for any reason sucks, even if your car is in warranty. no lube so what posted:They are moving about the same units As far as I can tell, all of these companies sold everything they brought to the US in 2023. I think this year we might start seeing some of these actually sit on lots (anecdotal but I just saw a dealer advertise a new GR Corolla for $1,500 under MSRP in a Facebook group) which will give us an idea of which people desire more.
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Jan 18, 2024 00:20
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trilobite terror posted:huh The R/ITS are dope cars. (Elantra N is king there though) I've had a gr for ~a year now. It's a dope car. But yeah, very valid complaints on the car. I like the shitbox interior, but is basic as poo poo for 40k. The rear does need more spring/ it has too much understeer as is. Really, it needs better dampeners too. The clutch pack in the back overheating is pretty lame. The yaris guys have had figured out the workaround a while ago. For autocross, the oem configuration has never overheated on me. Really, the two best parts of the car are the engine and the brakes. The engine makes you want to rev it out and has a fun amount of lag/build up. the brakes just feel great. grahm posted:As far as I can tell, all of these companies sold everything they brought to the US in 2023. I think this year we might start seeing some of these actually sit on lots (anecdotal but I just saw a dealer advertise a new GR Corolla for $1,500 under MSRP in a Facebook group) which will give us an idea of which people desire more. Yeah, thats a fair assessment. The backlog of morons are gone and we will see how many they really sell. I'm hoping they end up selling at least 20k units in a 6ish year run so the parts are readily available for a while. no lube so what fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 00:20
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The Elantra N is definitely worth a look, especially if you're considering the FL5. It's very comparable but for 10k less. The issue right now for the FL5, Golf R, and GRC is supply and the corresponding mark ups.
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Jan 18, 2024 00:35
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Bulk Vanderhuge posted:The Elantra N is definitely worth a look, especially if you're considering the FL5. It's very comparable but for 10k less. I owned two Elantra Ns (one DCT, one manual) before my FL5 and that is an incredible car for the money. The driver inputs are not CTR level but I would argue it's almost as fun to drive on the street. Also the DCT in that car is better than the one in my RS3 (the manual is "fine" but was still more fun to me than the DCT). The interior looks sorta garbage with that flimsy grab handle, but has all physical controls and the infotainment is great. If they offered it in a hatchback or wagon I'm not sure I would've made the move to Type R. Probably the biggest downside of that car is Hyundai dealers combined with not-bulletproof reliability. It seems like a lot people have no problems but there's a common-enough problem that can happen in a car wash or heavy rain which causes the knock sensor to fault and the car to go into limp mode. I never had that happen to either of my cars thank god but I would not want to have to work with Hyundai to fix that.
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Jan 18, 2024 00:52
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Bulk Vanderhuge posted:The issue right now for the FL5, Golf R, and GRC is supply and the corresponding mark ups. I looked up Type-R prices on Autotrader the other day and I could find a lot of dealers selling new ones at MSRP. All FL5s though, FK8s were weirdly absent.
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Jan 18, 2024 00:54
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Neo_Crimson posted:I looked up Type-R prices on Autotrader the other day and I could find a lot of dealers selling new ones at MSRP. Unfortunately just because they have it listed for MSRP on Autotrader (or even their website) doesn’t mean that’s the actual price. Dealers suck. That said, getting one for MSRP is possible, it just might take some work + being willing to travel or ship the car.
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Jan 18, 2024 02:40
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grahm posted:I owned two Elantra Ns (one DCT, one manual) before my FL5 and that is an incredible car for the money. The driver inputs are not CTR level but I would argue it's almost as fun to drive on the street. Also the DCT in that car is better than the one in my RS3 (the manual is "fine" but was still more fun to me than the DCT). The interior looks sorta garbage with that flimsy grab handle, but has all physical controls and the infotainment is great. If they offered it in a hatchback or wagon I'm not sure I would've made the move to Type R. Oh nice, you know all about it then. It sounds like the DCT and E-LSD work amazingly well, how was the valvetronic exhaust in N mode? Did you get a tune for either of them? I hear you about those issues and the dealership experience, the octane learning is a chore but can be tuned out. Neo_Crimson posted:I looked up Type-R prices on Autotrader the other day and I could find a lot of dealers selling new ones at MSRP. Supposedly allocations here in Canada are going to be like 500 for the entire production run, the ones I've seen listed here all have $20k mark ups. The pricing here makes things a little strange. The Golf R MSRP is $48-$50K for manual and DCT, FL5 is $50K. The GR Corolla is $49K for the base and a whopping $59K for the higher trim, which basically amounts to a heated steering wheel and cosmetic parts. Performance aside it just doesn't seem like a good value compared to what you get with the Golf R. Elantra N is $40-42K and you can actually buy them right away and at that price. The VB WRX is very good if you can get over some of the design choices, base MSRP is $33k which is nuts.
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Jan 18, 2024 04:11
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While I know it's been significantly revised I still can't get over the Hyundai N cars using a version of the same crappy engine I had in my 2015 Sonata.
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Jan 18, 2024 04:40
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Dunno about Hyundai, but a turbo and tuning changes quite a bit, regardless of block.
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Jan 18, 2024 04:44
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I feel better about things now. Now if only I could test drive one.
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Jan 18, 2024 04:56
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i will be selling my 2017 gti in the next couple months, been a great car but we dont need two performance cars so it will be replaced with a bolt as soon as i can get my mitts on one
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Jan 18, 2024 05:26
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What is the consumables situation on the Type R? Accounts vary wildly even for just normal (not track) driving. I saw someone say their brakes lasted 20k miles of city driving.
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Jan 19, 2024 23:48
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Travic posted:What is the consumables situation on the Type R? Accounts vary wildly even for just normal (not track) driving. I saw someone say their brakes lasted 20k miles of city driving. Holy poo poo if that's actually real. Granted I do mostly freeway driving and it's a manual, but my 2011 GTI still has it's original brakes and just shy of 120k. And yes, they get checked at the shop anytime I bring it in for maintenance.
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Jan 20, 2024 00:07
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I've got a '19 FK8 with 45k miles and I don't think the consumable situation has been super bad; but it has been a bit more than I was expecting as a first time sporty car owner. I did the front brakes at around 30k and they still had some life left, and the rears at ~43k which were pretty well worn. The tires have been by far the most painful part, I've gone through like 3 pairs I think in almost 5 years. I have not had a chance to track it yet but the first 3.5 years were spent in the mountains with pretty frequent spirited driving which I attribute somewhat to the tire wear. I switched to 18s about 2 years ago and it didn't really help with wear but it at least made it cheaper and a more comfortable ride. This year I'm planning on rotating the tires every oil change and see how that helps. I haven't really had major issues aside from the tires; the sway bar end links had to be replaced under warranty after 2 years and there was a recall for the fuel pump. It's been my daily since I bought it and I still love driving it but I don't get to play with it as much now that I have 2 kids.
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Jan 20, 2024 00:49
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Ok cool. Thanks. Sorry for all the questions. I don't like to make big decisions/purchases unless I've thoroughly looked at all the aspects and possible problems.
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Jan 20, 2024 04:08
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Travic posted:Ok cool. Thanks. Sorry for all the questions. I don't like to make big decisions/purchases unless I've thoroughly looked at all the aspects and possible problems. Are the transmission / synchro issues resolved? SavageGeese talked about it, mine successfully shifts about 98% of the time and I haven't heard anything to imply its been resolved. Honda's position has been "pound sand" for my car and the others I've heard of on other forums with the issue. Not sure that Honda is much better than Hyundai in terms of warranty service, even if the sales experience is often better. Maybe it was quietly resolved with the FL5?
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Jan 21, 2024 03:01
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MarsellusWallace posted:Are the transmission / synchro issues resolved? SavageGeese talked about it, mine successfully shifts about 98% of the time and I haven't heard anything to imply its been resolved. I've heard that 2nd gear grind still exists if you blast through the gears too quick. But maybe someone else with firsthand experience could chime in? Travic fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Jan 21, 2024 06:19
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Travic posted:
I routinely was getting 15-16k out of my PS4S and that was with regular AutoX and such The important thing is that 30,000 miles is how long the tires are warrantied for, which means if you burn them up earlier the replacement set is pro-rated so if you actually needed replacing at 7500 miles your replacement would be like 75% off dissss posted:While I know it's been significantly revised I still can't get over the Hyundai N cars using a version of the same crappy engine I had in my 2015 Sonata. What if I told you the CTR engine was also in the Accord MunchE fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Jan 23, 2024 |
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Jan 23, 2024 23:55
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MunchE posted:
The Honda K series is broadly known as a reliable engine family. The Hyundai Theta-II is not.
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Jan 24, 2024 07:30
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MunchE posted:I routinely was getting 15-16k out of my PS4S and that was with regular AutoX and such Ok that makes me feel better. Thanks. That ticks off just about everything I was worried about. Travic fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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Jan 24, 2024 18:47
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OBAMNA PHONE posted:i will be selling my 2017 gti in the next couple months, been a great car but we dont need two performance cars so it will be replaced with a bolt as soon as i can get my mitts on one That's kind of where I am. I don't really want to get rid of mine but the second kid means that space is now a whole thing. We've done fine by just tossing one kid's seat in each car as they rarely need to be both out at the same time at their current age but it's coming. I'd also be interested in messing with an EV but as best I can tell there isn't anything GTI-ish in the space right now. Maybe if they do an electric Golf like they mentioned. Regardless we aren't, can't, and don't want to be a 3 car household so in a holding pattern we remain.
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Feb 6, 2024 16:53
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We are a ten-car household and I rue the day I will have to get rid of my FiST. It’s a fantastic fun/rowdy daily driver; it hauls the mail and hauls all my work poo poo while still getting me 34+mpg. I’ve taken to only driving it for work days lately because I have a long semi-regular commute and on the days I stay local I’d rather drive the 911 or something else dumb.
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Feb 7, 2024 03:48
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Imperador do Brasil posted:We are a ten-car household and I rue the day I will have to get rid of my FiST. It’s a fantastic fun/rowdy daily driver; it hauls the mail and hauls all my work poo poo while still getting me 34+mpg. I’ve taken to only driving it for work days lately because I have a long semi-regular commute and on the days I stay local I’d rather drive the 911 or something else dumb. Don’t get rid of it, bing bong so simple When gas cars are fully obsoleted I will simply convert mine into a tasteful mausoleum, so that I may ride into the afterlife with a broken lumbar support
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Feb 7, 2024 03:48
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trilobite terror posted:Don’t get rid of it, bing bong so simple No plans on it leaving. Just thinking of way future times when it doesn’t make sense to keep around anymore. It’s my favorite daily commuter type thing I can remember. Fast enough, efficient enough, handles well enough, sounds good enough, tries to kill you just enough. TORQUE STEER!!!
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Feb 7, 2024 03:54
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Yeah, heh, they sure do get squirrely on ya. Love my little rascal though.
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Feb 7, 2024 04:03
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crossposting from the stupid questions thread (2015 Fiesta ST):trilobite terror posted:
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Feb 8, 2024 04:22
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Drank to much to offer more than this: yes it’s safe to drive a boosted car without boost. It’s just a fiesta SE, not an ST. I will answer harder tomorrow or the day after I promise.
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Feb 8, 2024 04:29
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