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Yooper posted:Second Front free update dropped today. Looks like British forces, 16 new scenarios, and a new campaign. *starts playing the Bridge Over the River Kwai theme*
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Jan 18, 2024 16:18
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bedpan posted:the largest issue I had with any of the total war games is that after the novelty of the first battles wore off, I was much, much more interested in the diplomacy, character, and province management. give me total war without the tactical element. shogun 2....
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Jan 18, 2024 16:46
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The lack of a map editor in the later TW games is loving egregious. I feel like modders could have really done something with these later games if they were allowed to play around with the maps. The same problem I have with SD2 Army General.
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Jan 18, 2024 16:47
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FrancisFukyomama posted:didn’t Rome 2 have a hardcoded 3 traits limit for years which meant that modders had to make elaborate combo traits that combined 4 or 5 vanilla ones to get generals to feel as unique as they did in the original the post Shogun 2 games had a much more robust scripting language (just lua) which let modders eventually make mods like Divide et Impera (lol that acronym became something else) and at this mature stage of modding the campaign map is editable. Part of the problem of making script extender type executable hacks is that SEGA loves putting denuvo copyright protections on their games because they are a japanese company. Frosted Flake posted:The lack of a map editor in the later TW games is loving egregious. map editing is already in the game. It's just that you aren't cracking it open in MSPaint so stuff takes a lot longer to make.
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Jan 18, 2024 16:52
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Megamissen posted:when did this happen and what can modders do now that they couldnt before? you can do things like big general bodyguards actually regenerate back to full instead of being capped to 80 units. A large amount of cultures rather than the hardcoded 8. Same for traits/ancillaries. https://youneuoy.github.io/M2TWEOP-library/ custom UI etc is a big one. If this had been made a decade and a half ago...
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Jan 18, 2024 16:58
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Was this not a new development?
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Jan 18, 2024 16:59
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Yeah with the engine shift in shogun 2 (or possibly Rome 2) they stopped including any tools or hooks that would allow for map editing possibly due to the various middlewares they use the licenses thereof ( I REALLY doubt it was like fear of modders eating their lunch but I suppose it's possible). Its also really hard to load in custom models although modders have done some impressive stuff with hacking together the existing one. Eventually methods were worked out to modify the map, but the problem then was that they couldn't make the AI "see" the new map and it would still behave as if it was the old one. The full blown map maker that the AI works with was a recent breakthrough bedpan posted:I'd be much happier with TW if the diplomatic functions were more robust. 3K has the best diplo of any total war, only time I've ever accepted vassalage to buy breathing room to reconsolidate and recover like it was a drat EU game The Chad Jihad has issued a correction as of 17:24 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 17:11
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Tankbuster posted:the post Shogun 2 games had a much more robust scripting language (just lua) which let modders eventually make mods like Divide et Impera (lol that acronym became something else) and at this mature stage of modding the campaign map is editable. Part of the problem of making script extender type executable hacks is that SEGA loves putting denuvo copyright protections on their games because they are a japanese company. Divide et Impera is really good, I really like, for example, the population being divided into classes and all unit types being recruited from those specific classes rather than just appearing from nowhere. It limits the Greek city-states in a really interesting way - Sparta, for example, is now limited to only 1-2 units of its elite hoplites at the beginning of the game, because it just doesn't have enough actual citizens to staff any more than that, and is forced to rely on helot conscripts and mercenaries if it wants to have even a single full-stack army, just as it did in reality. It uses game mechanics to model a genuine problem that armies of the time faced, in a way that naturally leads to outcomes and army compositions that bear more resemblance to reality. Using the Sparta example again, not only can they only field a very small number of their best troops, but their population of actual citizens is so low that you have to be very, very careful with them, because if they take heavy losses you might have so few real citizens left that you can't replenish them. With Rome, you have a real incentive to both make extensive use of local auxiliaries - because you can recruit them out directly from the local population without having to wait years for the frontier territories to Romanize first - and also to Romanize that conquered territory, not just for economic or political reasons but also for military ones, getting access to a pool of recruits for the legions.
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Jan 18, 2024 17:19
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given that the recent warscape 2 editor happened because CA helped the modders, I would say no they weren't afraid of modders eating their lunch. Its absolutely something people who don't make mods say. Loading in custom models was a slightly more difficult method that was also eventually solved by modders. Its just that the modders who made the GCCM campaign map addons are far less active during warhammer 3. At the same time, the pipeline for adding custom animations/actual new sounds/UI elements etc is far more refined so people like making their bleep bloop models and putting them into the game. Warhammer 3 has a giant more classic warhammer fantasy map focused on the old world and it works great. You absolutely see the lack of polish and doodads because instead of a team of professionals making it, its mostly just one guy who also likes modding bethesda games.
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Jan 18, 2024 17:24
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People always love 3K, but every time I played it, I couldn't get into it. I just ended up playing Crusader Kings instead. Everytime a TW game approaches that sort of complexity, it puts itself in the same game space as better games.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:00
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Mister Bates posted:Divide et Impera is really good, I really like, for example, the population being divided into classes and all unit types being recruited from those specific classes rather than just appearing from nowhere. Yes, but DEI is limited by the map, in a way RTR: Imperium Surrectum isn't for example. DEI is one of the best mods for any game I have played, absent their lack of content for the Crisis of the Third Century campaign and how the mod team has not worked on Attila the way I'd prefer, but they can't make new provinces or settlements, even when it's clear that they would like to.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:46
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The first mod I ever made was giving the town watch in RTW 50% more guys in their unit (increasing recruitment cost, but keeping the old upkeep cost). Resulted in me actually making them for reducing unrest, which, you know, their actual job. Felt nicer than keeping legions at home, or using peasants for the job.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:50
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whats the next best thing when it comes to aurora 4x? Distant worlds? I really don't wanna give myself RSI
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Jan 18, 2024 23:06
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Frosted Flake posted:Yes, but DEI is limited by the map, in a way RTR: Imperium Surrectum isn't for example. they can now. It just takes a long time to make and you need somewhat different skillset than making 500 pieces of linthorax the game will distribute by itself.
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Jan 18, 2024 23:41
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Stairmaster posted:whats the next best thing when it comes to aurora 4x? Distant worlds? I really don't wanna give myself RSI Nebolous?
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Jan 18, 2024 23:46
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/SorenJohnson/status/1732608515741499562 jenbo (@irockgnomes) is a good friend of mine and let me know that sid meier sent her a video to pass along to her mom. sorry about the video's format, this is how jenbo sent this to me: https://i.imgur.com/s9RVM4r.mp4 sound on
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Jan 19, 2024 01:58
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Jan 19, 2024 01:59
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fermun posted:jenbo (@irockgnomes) is a good friend of mine and let me know that sid meier sent her a video to pass along to her mom. sorry about the video's format, this is how jenbo sent this to me: omg that's so wholesome love him
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Jan 19, 2024 03:04
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he did a great job as the science advisor in civ 2
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Jan 19, 2024 04:10
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 As a genuine Union sympathizer, he knows the fight isn't over- until the North says it is
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Jan 19, 2024 05:06
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Just beat Colonization on the 2nd highest difficulty level, which is certainly better than anything I ever did as a kid. I'm pretty sure I could do the highest difficulty setting also but I don't enjoy the other Europeans swarming you with dragoons in the early mid game to try to slow you down plus they seem to be on track to beating you to independence really early, giving you too little time to properly set up to fight the independence war if you try to just race them. So the winning strategy seems to be to build up a bit of an army with some cannon quite early, probably through massacring natives for their treasure + getting veteran soldiers. The treasure you then use to buy weapons and cannon with, which you then use to murder the gently caress out of whichever AI is doing best. This should cripple them enough that you get to take your time to prepare for independence again same as on lower difficulty. That doesn't seem enjoyable though, since it's just a bunch of hoops to jump through before you get to play the same game you'd play on lower difficulty settings. And all those hoops are about the military rather than the economic part of the game, which isn't its strong side. Anyway, having played it again, I could do some serious effort posts about this game, how it depicts Native Americans, the European factions, the relationship between colonies and the metropole, the economy, the founding fathers and the independence war, and I might, but I feel like I'd need a lot of screenshots and time and ugh I'm probably not going to. Some of it is very (unintentionally) funny though. From a gameplay perspective, overall it holds up even 30 years later.
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Jan 19, 2024 11:46
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I played Gettysburg as an adult and holy poo poo the a.i is bad
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Jan 19, 2024 16:06
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I have been playing AGEOD games, a few turns a day, and I have not felt this mix of emotions between love and frustration in a long time, like the Vicky 1 era Paradox Games or John Tiller titles. They're so close to being incredible, but they're so loving janky and deeply flawed too.
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Jan 19, 2024 16:13
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I've posted a bit about getting into Kriegsspiel a little while ago. There's one about to kick off run in Flashpoint Campaigns in which I am responsible for Pact Divisional Artillery, with 9 batteries of 6 Akatsyas each (total: 54), 3 batteries of 6 Grads (total: 18), a recon patrol in BRM-1Ks, and 2 artillery observer units in BTRs. I may also be able to call upon 2 x 6 Uragans at Army level, but can't count on it. I'm supporting 3 tank and 1 motor rifle regiments, which also have their own regimental artillery and mortars. We're facing at the very least 2 US Infantry Battalions and 1-2 Armoured battalions supported by AH-1s and OH-58s. I'm also part of the staff in general, supposed to compile a short (max 1 powerpoint slide) report to the division commander every turn.  Our mission is to secure and hold river crossings. This being Flashpoint Campaigns, both the turn length and unit response times are variable. My artillery is between 2-19 minutes by default, but will be degraded by EW. Also, to be clear, my batteries are on the map, not invulnerable. For my part, I'm advising 4 axes of advance - the two main roads converging by Schesslitz, a flanking element along the north of the map, and a quick march to Bamberg along the road in the south. I'm not the CiC though, so it's just a recommendation. Frosted Flake posted:artilleryposting FF, you inspired me to get into artillery and now I need your help so I don't look like an idiot. I won't be posting about the game as it goes on so that's against the rules for obvious reasons, but I could really use some general tips, as well as ideas for an initial fire plan. I know it depends on the movement plan of the regiments since it's as of yet undecided, but any help would be really appreciated, even if it ends up being just general principles. I assume it's smart to hit potential ambush spots along the routes of friendly regiments with a light bombardment just before the friendlies get there. Zeppelin Insanity has issued a correction as of 19:10 on Jan 19, 2024 |
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Jan 19, 2024 18:33
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Frosted Flake posted:I have been playing AGEOD games, a few turns a day, and I have not felt this mix of emotions between love and frustration in a long time, like the Vicky 1 era Paradox Games or John Tiller titles. Whatever you do do not under any circumstance play Pride of Nations. It sounds great but takes so much time to play (3 mins for the AI to take its turns lol) that they never even tested it beyond the first decade or two. I put way too much time into that flaming pile of crap I'm never getting back.
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Jan 19, 2024 19:10
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sid meier's gettysburg was cool as a kid because the ai was braindead although i will never forgive for continuing the idea that lee stopped at gettysburg for the shoe factory.
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Jan 19, 2024 22:14
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:I've posted a bit about getting into Kriegsspiel a little while ago. Late to this, but I'm always eager to help with artillery planning, and on the topic of Kriegspiels, I'm thinking of signing up for a WSS event and am reading up on the use of artillery in the period. So, let's take a look. How Ivan Used Artillery Soviet artillery doctrine was deeply rooted in the principles of massed firepower, coordination, and adaptability. It aimed to provide effective fire support to ground forces while maintaining readiness for both offensive and defensive operations. The doctrine was based on a hierarchical command structure, emphasizing the concentration of firepower on critical targets and the synchronization of artillery with other branches of the military. While central planning and control were common, contrary to popular belief, flexibility and adaptability at the tactical level were also important components of Soviet artillery doctrine - but the fires available were what that commander had available organically. The bedrock principle of Soviet doctrine is "never reinforce failure", and that applies to fires as well. A battalion commander that hosed up had the mortars to get himself out of trouble, but he was not going to be allocated fires from the next rung up the chain of command. What Does This Mean For You? Organic Fire Support: Understand that at the battalion and regimental levels, you have access to organic fire support, including mortars and heavy machine guns (this includes APC/IFV weapons). Make the most of these assets by integrating them into your tactics. Mortars are particularly valuable for indirect fire support. Reliability in Planning: Emulate the Soviet emphasis on reliability and predictability in your planning. Coordinate with your organic fire support elements to create a fire support plan that you can count on during engagements. Each element's fire plan starts with the assumption that they can complete their immediate assigned mission with only their organic weapons. Your battalion can take that wood line supported by only their own mortars. Exploiting that success requires more firepower, but it should be released only where and when the battalion attack has gone through successfully. Limited Autonomy: While you have some autonomy in assigning fire support assets within your battalion or regiment, it may still be limited compared to higher-level commanders. Ensure that you maximize the use of available firepower within your own formation. The higher level fires support the overall operational plan, which means they are released when organic fires have delivered results. After the battalion has taken the wood line, the big guns can hammer the hill behind it. Releasing the big guns to the battalion first is a non-starter, and here's why: If they use it to hit the woods, it's a wasted effort because their own weapons could have accomplished that goal. If they can't get to the woods with their own fires, they were never going to get on that hill anyway, and so the guns hammering the hill is pointless. Guns tied up supporting a stalled out attack on that wood line aren't available when a neighbouring unit has succeeded and is ready to move on the hill. Do you see? The battalions have to get to the battalion-level objectives with their own weapons. The regiment reaches regimental-level objectives by employing regimental fires on the frontage where a battalion has succeeded. Never reinforce failure, always reinforce success. That comes back to planning things that can be accomplished with only the firepower available at that level. Focus on Fire Discipline: Stress the importance of fire discipline among your pixeltrooppen. The infantry heavy weapons, such as 82mm mortars and heavy machine guns, should be used effectively to suppress and engage the enemy. Maintain communication and coordination with these assets. Do not expend ammunition in a failed attack that might be conserved and used to exploit success somewhere else. Your battalion banging away at that wood line to no effect does the regiment no good. Even if success was met elsewhere, they have no ammo left to actually get on the hill. It makes more sense to exercise Fire D, so that they can shift over to a sector where another battalion's fires have cleared the way, and employ their weapons to further the overall plan, rather than hinder it. Adaptability: Be prepared to adapt to changing battlefield conditions. Your battalion or regiment may receive additional artillery support from higher echelons, but don't rely solely on external support. Develop contingency plans for various scenarios. Overlaps with my last point. It makes more sense to shift to where you've been successful to get onto that regimental objective rather than bang away in a stalled out battalion attack. Always be thinking about the overall plan. Formation Matters: Consider the formation of your component battalions within your regiment. Depending on the situation, you may need to assign specific missions to each battalion. Formation choices can impact your ability to provide effective fire support. You want eyes, and weapons, covering all of the places you need to cover. Your OPs need to be keeping up so that key terrain is observed before fires are needed to secure it. Organic weapons need to be covering the terrain you need to attack, move through and defend so that the artillery is not tied up hitting an unexpected platoon strength counter attack on your flank that your own APCs and mortars could have tackled easily had you moved them to watch you flanks as you advanced.  Reconnaissance: Prioritize reconnaissance to gather critical information about enemy positions and strength. Use reconnaissance units to locate enemy strongpoints and report back to your artillery observers for targeted fire missions. As above, OPs and Recce are always moving up. Arty Recce (if simulated) is always moving ahead of the batteries so the routes and gun positions are not things you stumble into. When you reach your regimental objectives, most likely your field guns will be at the edge of their range. The timing and routes of their repositioning should not be an ad hoc thing but part of the plan, so that you aren't caught with your pants down if there's a counter attack. You want to make sure that you know where they have to be to cover the next phase of your plan (ideally covered by a reverse slope), you need to know how they will get there, and you need to make sure that you have eyes, and weapons, covering their movement. So, if an artillery battery needs to drive along a road through the woods to their second gun position, (Arty) Recce has already driven through those woods (covered by someone else) and is now covering them, and what's ahead of them. Combine Arms Approach: Remember that Soviet doctrine at this level emphasizes a combined arms approach. Coordinate with your tank and infantry units to synchronize your actions and maximize the effectiveness of your firepower. Organic weapons in the case of the infantry, and direct fire weapons in the case of the tanks, are as much a part of your fire plan as the guns. Do not assign artillery batteries for terrain features your tanks are already in position to shoot at. So, just like the woods that battalion mortars should tackle above, remember that your tanks can fire on forward slopes very effectively, freeing artillery to hit the reverse slope. Make sure your infantry is involved in every part of the battle because they are the only ones able to get into certain terrain features, and to get eyes on every inch of the battlefield. Defensive Preparations: In defensive operations, ensure your infantry units are positioned in a layered defense with overlapping fields of fire. Use obstacles, such as mines and ditches, to channel and disrupt enemy movements. Coordinate with higher commands for artillery and anti-tank support. Self explanatory. Offensive Operations: During offensive operations, maintain momentum by utilizing the standard formations of 2-1 on defense and column formation on the attack. This allows for concentrated firepower to support your advances. See: Formation Matters. Tips for Employing Soviet Artillery Doctrine in Any Game System Concentration of Firepower: Prioritize high-value targets, such as enemy armored units, artillery batteries, and command elements, for concentrated artillery fire. Overwhelming firepower on critical targets can disrupt enemy plans and tilt the battle in your favor. Preplanned Fire Support: Develop preplanned fire missions that can be executed quickly. These missions should include tasks like suppressing known enemy positions, creating smoke screens, and providing counter-battery fire to neutralize enemy artillery threats. Having these plans in place ensures a rapid response when needed. Flexibility (Again): While central planning is essential, remain adaptable to changing battlefield conditions. Be ready to adjust your fire plan rapidly based on the movements of friendly forces and the evolving enemy situation. Flexibility allows you to exploit opportunities and respond to threats effectively. Counter-Battery Fire: Allocate some of your artillery assets for counter-battery fire to suppress or eliminate enemy artillery threats. This protects your friendly forces and disrupts the enemy's ability to provide fire support to their troops. Usually 1/3 of upper echelon artillery should be reserved for this. You shouldn't be despairing because, once again, your organic fires should be part of the fire plan. Don't make plans 2/3s of your artillery, plus mortars, machine guns and tank guns can't achieve, because the other third wouldn't help you. Why? If you needed every available gun to get on the objective, you sure as poo poo wouldn't get there in the face of unsuppressed enemy batteries. Use of Multiple Rocket Launchers: If available, utilize multiple rocket launchers like the Grad to saturate enemy positions or create smoke screens to conceal friendly movements. These weapons can deliver a high volume of fire over a wide area, disrupting enemy defenses. This means timing is crucial, these fires are intended to blow holes in key terrain, so you had better have units ready to exploit. When the battalion attack has succeeded, and the regimental attack has succeeded, that's when the MRLS opens up the route for the divisional objective. All of the elements we've discussed previously must have been mastered to get here because this is not a tactical weapon to achieve tactical goals, it is the linchpin of an operational plan. If its role is hitting the enemy artillery batteries, headquarters, and logistics, obviously you must have successfully conducted reconnaissance to identify those targets, and the timing must be done so it is most useful. If the goal is clearing key terrain, as I said, you must already be ready to move through that terrain, with every other combined arms element and their organic weapons ready and already in position, on time, to exploit. That leads into, Integration with Friendly Forces: Coordinate closely with the units you are supporting. Share intelligence and target information, especially regarding potential ambush spots and known enemy positions. Effective communication and collaboration enhance the overall effectiveness of artillery support. A MRLS by itself does no lasting harm. You can't shoot the enemy off terrain. It's important to have each peace of the puzzle set up. Adaptive Communication: Be prepared for communication challenges, including electronic warfare. Develop contingency plans for maintaining communication with your artillery units in case of disruption. Reliable communication is crucial for effective artillery coordination. This is a big deal in Flashpoint Campaigns because you're not even going to be able to move units or call for fires without having done it. Mission Focus: Keep your mission objectives in mind when planning artillery fire. Ensure that your artillery support aligns with the overall goals of your forces. Artillery fires should contribute directly to the success of the mission, whether it's securing river crossings or achieving other strategic objectives.
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Jan 19, 2024 23:16
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Thank you, this is really great! And you're not late, we're still in the planning phase for a few days. However, what you said mostly seems to be aimed at a regimental commander. I'm not one of those; we have 4 players playing 3 tank and 1 motor rifle regiments. I'm the divisional artillery. The only assets I have other than the Akatsyas and Grads are two spotter elements in BTRs and one recon element in BRMs. So, if I transpose your advice on to playing divisional artillery: 1. Don't reinforce failure. 2. Don't spread fires around. 3. Identify the most successful friendly element, and pile on concentrated fires. Focus on enemy reinforcement routes and defensive elements in depth, rather than what the regiment is facing at any one moment. 4. Keep a significant percentage of batteries on counter-battery duty. 5. Hold the Grads until the critical moment. Judging by the ammo load, they'll only get one barrage throughout the whole scenario, and I don't know how long that will last. Am I on the right track? I also took the liberty of looking at the map and marking what I consider to be problematic\likely enemy positions based on an advance along 4 axes starting from 3 in-game "spawn points", and assuming a NATO defense aimed at attritting Pact forces and slowing the regiments, with the intent of creating slow-moving pileups that can be attacked with airstrikes and DPICM. Blue represents likely problematic positions, purple represents problematic positions that I think are unlikely to be allowed by the scenario as it's really far east.  Am I on the right track with this as well? Also, we can also call Army for a chemical Uragan strike... though it is to be a last resort. Zeppelin Insanity has issued a correction as of 23:57 on Jan 19, 2024 |
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Jan 19, 2024 23:45
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:Thank you, this is really great! And you're not late, we're still in the planning phase for a few days. Yes, exactly right. You could use the Grads to open the attack and throw the enemy into disarray, but that effect correlates to how good your reconnaissance has been. It's very effective if you hit ammo dumps, HQs, artillery batteries, units in the rear that aren't deployed for battle, and a waste of time if you open your attack by moving mud randomly somewhere in the enemy's unobserved rear. As division artillery, you shape the battlespace, and that means that it's up to you to lock down the routes the enemy will want to advance, retreat, or shift forces through. You would want to isolate the battlefield for your main effort. It's ineffective to do this purely though H&I, really what you want is to have OPs watching those roads so that when the enemy is formed up and moving to counterattack, that's when DPICM falls on their columns.  Divisional level fires, used properly like that, can decisively win a battle, like Debaltseve. I would summarize this by saying divisional artillery aims to have effects that facilitate the plan of the division as a whole, by striking at targets at the appropriate depth and of the appropriate importance. If you think of the "other side of the hill" as being inverted, (even though NATO forces employed different doctrine, the principles are the same)  You want to focus your fires on targets at the enemy's divisional depth, and targets that enable the plan to reach the divisional depth. So, the rear, the ultimate objectives for the entire plan, and the absolute key features and targets along the way. Whatever MSR is assigned to the division, you want to have a fire plan that can: - Clear any obstacle. Easy, you need to have an idea of where the enemy has set up defences to prevent you from using the MSR. If your main effort requires the use of it, their defences, and so your fires, will be concentrated at points along this route. - Suppress any fires. So, your fire plan must neutralize weapons the enemy has sited on a hill that provides direct fire on the MSR, until the manoeuvre units can get up there. You are responsible for striking buildings and elevation that provide unobstructed observation of the MSR. A single enemy FOO with a good view of your columns can ruin your entire day. Don't assume they aren't watching that section of road just because the initial attack went through okay, because it's to their benefit to hit your follow up forces with ammo, POL, HQs and repositioning artillery. A route is only secure where the positions overlooking it have been cleared out by the PBI, and that's a process that takes time and multiple bounding movements covered by fire. If a hill overlooks a key crossroads you have to use, someone will have to go up there and hold that terrain. Your job is to allow them to do that, by smoke and by fire. - Related, suppress enemy artillery positions that can fire on your MSR. The FOOs are only as deadly as whatever they are connected to. While your infantry works their way up, clearing out anywhere the road might be observed from, your counter battery effort is there to suppress enemy fires as much as possible. These are both about letting you pass through terrain unimpeded by enemy fires to the greatest degree possible, by working on both their FOOs and guns. - Mask any movement. Your fires allow the infantry to clear key terrain that will screen your forces, and you also provide smoke to mask units moving through terrain you do not yet control by direct fire and manoeuvre. So, if a section of the MSR is observed by a village, and you have to move through that section of MSR before you can either have infantry atop the terrain or have the terrain covered by direct fire, and in either case, you would still have to contend with FOOs within that village you can't displace yet and whatever enemy guns aren't yet suppressed, you must mask that section of the MSR with smoke for however long it takes to move the forces through it that enable the rest of the plan to unfold. Ideally your manoeuvre commanders know their business and aren't putting you in a situation where you have to lay smoke constantly or the entire plan goes to pieces, it should be at key moments where there is no other way to enable manoeuvre, but at times you will be what enables the division to move through the open, when they would otherwise be exposed to unsuppressed enemy weapons.
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Jan 20, 2024 00:17
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:Thank you, this is really great! And you're not late, we're still in the planning phase for a few days. AoA3 looks wrong to me. Your overall objective is to move west, not north, right? So move west.
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Jan 20, 2024 01:47
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Orange Devil posted:AoA3 looks wrong to me. Your overall objective is to move west, not north, right? So move west. Agreed. AoA3 is moving through open country parallel to hilly woods behind two streams. The enemy located there can observe, at the very least assuming they don't have serious weapons in there, the entire northward movement, and westbound turn, of your forces coming from AoA3, while you have no way to clear them out. It's terrain that's of no importance to you, but presents a very serious risk if you decide to move parallel to it. I've marked the problem area as well as places where observation or fires from there are likely to interrupt your movement.  On the other hand, as there's no east-west road worth taking through there, and it's all closed terrain that would slow you down, in addition to the streams, it's not worth trying to clear out whatever enemy might be dug in there. It's better to just focus on where you need to go, without exposing yourself to fire on your flanks before you even start driving in the right direction.
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Jan 20, 2024 02:39
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The AoAs are the potential "spawn points", they weren't placed by me. Same with the timings, those are the delays from start of scenario to units showing up on the map if they use that origin point. I figure that trying to fit 4 regiments onto just two origin points is a recipe for an hours-long traffic jam. The southern part of the map, to my eyes, has a really nice road that runs to the West, with a number of opportunities to divert north in case there is either fierce resistance or a good opportunity to encircle enemy forces opposing the main highways with a detached company. I've also been informed that the enemy will be able to deploy FASCAM before the scenario begins, though I don't think that really makes much difference to Soviet doctrine. We have limited intel so far, but everything looks too good: -Army says they believe they will have mild air superiority -We have a huge advantage in numbers, both in ground units and especially in artillery. -We have T-80BVs and Bs, which in Flashpoint seem to have better stats than M1A1s and M1IPs we're supposed to face -The infantry is expected to be in m113s, not Bradleys (Though there are ITVs) I have to assume it's too good to be true and there's going to be some kind of nasty surprise. Zeppelin Insanity has issued a correction as of 03:59 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 03:52
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Did they tell you it's mostly reservists and old men too?
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Jan 20, 2024 04:05
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:I have to assume it's too good to be true and there's going to be some kind of nasty surprise. If I was the scenario designer I would give both sides chemical weapons and give the impression that only your side has them.
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Jan 20, 2024 04:06
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BearsBearsBears posted:If I was the scenario designer I would give both sides chemical weapons and give the impression that only your side has them. Now that you mention it, Flashpoint Campaigns does have mechanics for radiation...
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Jan 20, 2024 04:29
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How do you plan to mask or neutralize that terrain for the 100 minutes before you can actually deploy forces down there?
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Jan 20, 2024 04:41
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Frosted Flake posted:How do you plan to mask or neutralize that terrain for the 100 minutes before you can actually deploy forces down there? Perhaps I'm just too game-brained, but my assumption was that the leading element of the column appears at minute 100: thus masking for 100 minutes before they exist on the map is unnecessary. One could drop a line of smoke at minute 100 that persists long enough for the forward security element to get into the woods and begin to engage any scouts as the rest of the column drives past. I'm also thinking that any forces committed there are not slowing down the other axes of advance. If this is a stupid plan, then I'm happy to revise it. I'm also not the one in overall command, just one of the staff, but I'm the only one with a first draft proposal so far. Am I wrong to think that traffic management if we don't use most of the map will be a major struggle? I only played a little bit of Flashpoint Campaigns. I remember it being an issue for me even in the initiall smaller scenarios, but I also considered myself quite bad at the game. Maybe I'm also just too attached to the idea of the regiments advancing in columns along the roads, and I should start thinking more in terms of broad lines. I also have to figure out where to stuff all the batteries, since they are supposed to all be on map I think, though I need to double check with the umpire. I really appreciate all the help so far!
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Jan 20, 2024 05:29
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The problem is that the terrain there allows for observation and fire onto the main east-west roads, B22 and B505 , but you won't have forces there to clear it for 100 minutes. In the meantime, you have to do something about it if you want to use those routes. Bypassing it is totally viable, but you need a fire and manoeuvre plan to do so. How do you deal with the likely enemy presence along the Hohenhäusling-Königsfeld-Drosendorf an der Aufseß line parallel to B22 so that you can actually use the road? There are all sorts of solutions, but the reason I'm putting the problem to you is that you want to move in columns but deploy to fight in line. It's far too slow and unwieldy to move in battle array all the time, but on the other hand, fighting from the march is very disadvantageous. The problem with that terrain feature is that you can't advance down B22 while engaged on the flanks. That's related to the problem relayed earlier of moving north from AoA3 with an open flank, before turning west to move along B22 or B505. In either case, you don't want a threat perpendicular to your direction of travel because you can't move in column or line, you end up in a disadvantageous formation no matter what.  These are the routes down B22 and B505, and the problem terrain overlooking them. You can see you have a similar problem with the ridge between Schweisdorf and Wattendorf, but you are much better positioned to actually find, fix, and finish enemies located there, without holding up the whole advance by 100 minutes. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 06:11 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 06:05
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Lol at the saps on the other side of Zeppelin Insanity having to deal with their opfor getting general staff planning Poor bastards will never know what hit them
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Jan 20, 2024 06:11
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| # ? May 27, 2024 13:54 |
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I wish I had the map tools on my phone to actually show you what the formations would look like, but the point is that how you would deploy for the march and for the attack are different, and moving perpendicular to a terrain feature like that would require you to do both. Whichever MRR is moving alongside it can't also be supporting the main effort. Now, if they were the first arriving, that actually works out, because a probing attack would have the effect of pinning the enemy there, supporting the main effort which would go in behind them. Exposure to fire for the marching columns would be lessened because the MRR in line facing the terrain feature would already be covering it with fire. However, since that group is arriving last, it's a problem because it can't support the main direction of your advance, and it can't march to exploit earlier successes because it would be travelling with that open flank. These are solvable problems though, I think you have a good chance of success with the forces allocated on that B22, B505 axis, you just need a plan to deal with the two most likely, most difficult, enemy positions.  Division deployed on the march  Division deployed for the attack (matches your initial dispositions of two up one back, though due to timings, the supporting attack would be at the bottom instead of the top, laid over the map)  Idealized division deployment, you can see how AoA1 and B22 are most suitable for orienting around. My point in the geometry, other than it being one of the quadrivium, is that you don't want to have a third of your force weakened by an open flank. If it must move perpendicular to the main effort, it should be a supporting attack, but the timing of that supporting attack should, well, support the main effort through complementary timing. The idea is that if it can't move in the same direction, and so directly participate in the main attack, its efforts should in some way still further the overall divisional scheme of manoeuvre. A pinning attack that masks the movement of the division and degrades the enemy in that difficult terrain so that the main effort can later pass through to the north, would be, I think, worthwhile. e: this is extremely crude and I did not scale it or move anything around, I have no idea how to do that on a phone, but this should give you an idea of what I'm talking about  ee: again, the limitation here is artistic and technical, because it would be nice to better take the terrain into account and scale it properly, but you get the idea 
Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 06:55 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 06:36
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