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Hieronymous Alloy posted:He just wants a lot of soundbites of the judge yelling at him so he can play the clips at rallies and in TV commercials. Habba's generating those clips. He doesn't plan on ever actually paying any judgments regardless of the outcome. As a general rule of thumb, it's impossible to not pay a judgment. He might be able to delay it quite a while with litigation, and maybe even get the amount cut down if he doesn't annoy the judges too much, and maybe get it cut down further if the plaintiff loses patience and offers a settlement. But you can't refuse to pay out a civil court judgment. He can drag it out for a while, but the court can and will start just straight-up seizing assets or garnishing wages once the judge runs out of patience. Granted, the judge will probably go out of their way to exhibit quite a bit of patience, but just because the wheels of civil court turn slowly doesn't mean it won't eventually crush a person who goes out of their way to defy it. If Trump refuses to take money out of his bank account to pay out a judgement, the court can just send a court order to the bank that says "all that money in Donald J Trump's account doesn't belong to him anymore, here's the account number to transfer it to". The court will generally take their time getting to that point, since there's generally no need to rush and they want to give the target plenty of chances to comply voluntarily, but it'll happen eventually if Trump forces them to. And federal court judgments accumulate interest until they're paid off, so the amount will just get bigger and bigger over time. And, importantly, this is something that applies even to rich people, because civil court is how rich people and big businesses resolve disputes over money and contracts.
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Jan 18, 2024 17:46
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Main Paineframe posted:As a general rule of thumb, it's impossible to not pay a judgment. He might be able to delay it quite a while with litigation, and maybe even get the amount cut down if he doesn't annoy the judges too much, and maybe get it cut down further if the plaintiff loses patience and offers a settlement. Eventually is sort of a relative term, though. Alex Jones lost his Sandy Hook stuff in 2022 and to my knowledge he hasn't paid a dime thus far. As with most things I suspect Trump's goal is to try and ride it out to the white house (where presidential nonsense makes it much harder) or to death when it becomes someone else's problem..
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Jan 18, 2024 18:08
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Yeah, the issue is that freedom-loving Americans need Trump to not have money from now through November 2024 so that he can't fund his cult. Time is of the essence, and all that. If he doesn't pay I hope judges seize assets quickly.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:13
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Ynglaur posted:Yeah, the issue is that freedom-loving Americans need Trump to not have money from now through November 2024 so that he can't fund his cult. Time is of the essence, and all that. If he doesn't pay I hope judges seize assets quickly. Trump does not fund his campaign personally. In fact it goes the other direction, he grifts money from campaign funds to cover things like legal fees
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Jan 18, 2024 18:18
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Caros posted:Eventually is sort of a relative term, though. Alex Jones is currently in bankruptcy proceedings as they determine exactly how much of EVERYTHING HE’S EVER OWNED is going to be parcelled out to all the various groups he owes money to, and, since intentional torts are nondischargable in bankruptcy, they’re also going to carve out large pieces of EVERYTHING HE’S EVER GOING TO OWN too. It’s good that the monopoly of violence isn’t capable of stripping money away from folks on a whim, even when it means it takes longer than would be ideal for people who really deserve it, but AJ is not a good example of someone who isn’t deep deep into the process of being hooker in Tijuana during Fleet Week hosed.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:33
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Jean-Paul Shartre posted:Alex Jones is currently in bankruptcy proceedings as they determine exactly how much of EVERYTHING HE’S EVER OWNED is going to be parcelled out to all the various groups he owes money to, and, since intentional torts are nondischargable in bankruptcy, they’re also going to carve out large pieces of EVERYTHING HE’S EVER GOING TO OWN too. It’s good that the monopoly of violence isn’t capable of stripping money away from folks on a whim, even when it means it takes longer than would be ideal for people who really deserve it, but AJ is not a good example of someone who isn’t deep deep into the process of being hooker in Tijuana during Fleet Week hosed. Yeah that sounds cool and all but meanwhile one of the victims is going on podcasts and websites trying to fundraise for her cancer treatments that will maaaaaaybe keep her alive if she can afford them and Alex is still living his life, making GBS threads hatred out of his mouth, and continuing to bring in money on that hatred. The system is absolutely capable of stripping money, freedom, liberty and even life away from people it deems the under class immediately and permanently. It just gets all wrapped around its own axel trying to ensure people get treated fairly when they have money and power to fight back.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:43
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Caros posted:Eventually is sort of a relative term, though. Alex Jones blatantly tried to cheat the judgment, and now a court-appointed caretaker controls his bank account and runs his companies, while forensic accountants have been tasked with digging through his records and accounts to find all the money he tried to hide. It's actually a perfect example of "you can delay it a while but you will pay eventually". The court has already seized his assets, and now it's just holding onto them while it works to track down all the assets he tried to hide.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:45
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bird food bathtub posted:Yeah that sounds cool and all but meanwhile one of the victims is going on podcasts and websites trying to fundraise for her cancer treatments that will maaaaaaybe keep her alive if she can afford them and Alex is still living his life, making GBS threads hatred out of his mouth, and continuing to bring in money on that hatred. So what's the solution here?
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Jan 18, 2024 18:49
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Main Paineframe posted:if he doesn't annoy the judges too much I'm gonna have to stop you right their, M. Paineframe.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:50
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Grip it and rip it posted:So what's the solution here? In a perfect, theoretical frictionless spherical cow world the person driving home with their paycheck in cash wouldn't find out how much civil asset forfeiture is a thing and be completely hosed, immediately, for the crime of Driving While Black because they got the same kind of balanced consideration that, in theory, Jones and Trump are getting. In the reality we occupy? Nothing, they are hosed and will continue to be hosed so the system does not get a gold star for treating the rich and powerful the way it does.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:54
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Scapegoat posted:I consider legal eagle generally quite restrained (as you would expect) so was quite surprised he was so adamant that she was pretty hosed by poaching another lawyers client. It's the right mix of active malice, incompetence, and disregard for standards of conduct that really draws out his ire. I think he has a similar take with Alex Jones legal fuckery, for example.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:55
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Main Paineframe posted:Alex Jones blatantly tried to cheat the judgment, and now a court-appointed caretaker controls his bank account and runs his companies, while forensic accountants have been tasked with digging through his records and accounts to find all the money he tried to hide. So you are saying when Alex Jones spends millions of dollars on coke and luxury hotels, that is actually approved by the caretaker? That cancer fundraising literally proves that the banks do not expect Alex Jones to have to ever pay. Otherwise the victims would be offered infinite cheap credit.
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Jan 18, 2024 18:58
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VictualSquid posted:So you are saying when Alex Jones spends millions of dollars on coke and luxury hotels, that is actually approved by the caretaker? He was not saying this.
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Jan 18, 2024 19:22
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VictualSquid posted:So you are saying when Alex Jones spends millions of dollars on coke and luxury hotels, that is actually approved by the caretaker? Yeah, if Jones is a guaranteed payout seems like easy money to put up a loan for the treatment. So what’s the holdup, are bankers dumb or do they know something we don’t?
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Jan 18, 2024 19:26
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Ga. judge in Trump case orders hearing on accusations of Willis misconductquote:A state judge overseeing the election-interference case against former president Donald Trump in Georgia has scheduled a hearing for Feb. 15 to hear evidence regarding accusations that Fulton County District Attorney Fani T. Willis (D) and her lead prosecutor engaged in an improper relationship and mishandled public money. I guess we'll find out soon enough if there is any merit to this.
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Jan 18, 2024 19:37
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Main Paineframe posted:As a general rule of thumb, it's impossible to not pay a judgment. He might be able to delay it quite a while with litigation, and maybe even get the amount cut down if he doesn't annoy the judges too much, and maybe get it cut down further if the plaintiff loses patience and offers a settlement. Normally, that's the case, but there is significant well established precedent that you can't file civilly against a sitting president. His plan, such as it is, is likely to defer payment until he's president, then use that as a bar to orders to force payment etc.
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Jan 18, 2024 19:40
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Normally, that's the case, but there is significant well established precedent that you can't file civilly against a sitting president. His plan, such as it is, is likely to defer payment until he's president, then use that as a bar to orders to force payment etc. Didn't the opposite hold in the Paula Jones case?
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Jan 18, 2024 20:03
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JohnClark posted:Didn't the opposite hold in the Paula Jones case? I didn't say it was a good plan. But look at his posts, he's arguing for " TOTAL IMMUNITY" etc. If the courts are sufficiently captured to grant him immunity to criminal prosecution, all bets are off anyway.
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Jan 18, 2024 20:08
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VictualSquid posted:So you are saying when Alex Jones spends millions of dollars on coke and luxury hotels, that is actually approved by the caretaker? Alex Jones is allotted a specific amount of money that he can spend freely, while the rest of his money can't even be touched without the court's specific approval. It's not clear that what the banks think - her lawyer has apparently been seeking permission in court for her to get a loan against the judgment, so it's not clear that the banks are the obstacle here. That said, lawsuit loans are a poor option, generally regarded as a last resort that should be avoided when other options exist. They're not really regulated, so there aren't a lot of consumer protections to speak of. Moreover, they're known for their exorbitant interest rates, which quickly compound and eat up huge chunks of the eventual judgment. The banks can impose high interest rates knowing not only that they'll likely get paid back but also that there'll be plenty of time for interest to accrue.
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Jan 18, 2024 20:29
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The precedent is you can't civilly sue the president for conduct committed within the scope of their job as president. Trump would need to clear 2 hurdles: 1) That the J6 related conduct is within the scope of his job duties (it wasn't). 2) That the precedent that a president can't be sued in civil court also extends to criminal prosecution (would be insane, Seal Team 6 assassination, etc.)
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Jan 18, 2024 20:33
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bird food bathtub posted:Yeah that sounds cool and all but meanwhile one of the victims is going on podcasts and websites trying to fundraise for her cancer treatments that will maaaaaaybe keep her alive if she can afford them and Alex is still living his life, making GBS threads hatred out of his mouth, and continuing to bring in money on that hatred. the answer is always, and will always be, "you're a bloodthirsty monster for expecting justice to be swift against the rich because you want a system that crushes people. how dare you? the system is working as intended, ooooh-h-HO you just wait until the FULL FORCE comes CRASHING DOWN!! just WAIT! oh-hoho it will be delicious when he's crushed like an egg!! oh-hoho-ho aaaany day now" every time. some people will jump in just to tell you to shut up and score "get a load of this guy!!" points but that's all you're gonna get. alex jones is poor in spirit and that should be enough for you, you monster.
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Jan 18, 2024 20:38
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Last I heard Alex was still spending in the high six figures per year. But I’m sure he’s going on extra double-secret probation real soon now.
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Jan 18, 2024 21:02
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InsertPotPun posted:
The real answer here, which nobody likes, is that justice on this earth is likely not attainable. It's an aspirational goal not an achievable one.
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Jan 18, 2024 21:13
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Not until we turn all government over to a benevolent AI god, at least
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Jan 18, 2024 21:14
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pumpinglemma posted:Last I heard Alex was still spending in the high six figures per year. But I’m sure he’s going on extra double-secret probation real soon now. Wingnut Welfare is a hell of a thing. Just seize his assets and give the plaintiffs the run of them. Garnish his twitch stream or whatever. Eat his onlyfans. Crush his bones inside of his skin with magic. Use that same magic to make sure he can only extract oxygen from his own skidmarked briefs. Force him to make the skidmarks. Make a hamster wheel of it all. May God, himself, gently caress this guy. Desumaytah fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 21:19
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Deteriorata posted:Ga. judge in Trump case orders hearing on accusations of Willis misconduct Good, someone needs to poo poo or get off the pot here. If the trial has to be deep sixed, better we know soon, so it gets out of the way for the others (though if it does I'm going to go full Joker and assume that even the thin chance of Trump seeing consequences is totally outside the scope of the reality we live in). I'm hoping Willis hasn't made any public confirmations or denials because she knows you can't get dragged into the mud with a moron like Trump, but I am not at all confident.
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Jan 18, 2024 21:56
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Ms Adequate posted:Good, someone needs to poo poo or get off the pot here. If the trial has to be deep sixed, better we know soon, so it gets out of the way for the others (though if it does I'm going to go full Joker and assume that even the thin chance of Trump seeing consequences is totally outside the scope of the reality we live in). She's made some public statements about how she's imperfect and flawed without explicitly addressing the issue.  Not a good idea imo because it sure as hell sounds like an admission anyway.
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Jan 18, 2024 22:11
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mobby_6kl posted:She's made some public statements about how she's imperfect and flawed without explicitly addressing the issue. She knows that everybody knows it's true. She's trying to set the groundwork for making the case that it's not relevant to the prosecution of this trial. Which is honestly probably true. But it's gonna be a thing anyway, god help us.
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Jan 18, 2024 22:19
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Especially considering MLK's primary flaw was infidelity which is also what Wilis is accused of
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Jan 18, 2024 22:20
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So basically he probably got away with that Georgia phone call
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Jan 18, 2024 22:30
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Was she even cheating, or was he? Anyway, that's not really the problem anyway, the (alleged) problem is that she hired someone who she had a close personal relationship with so he/they could benefit from that choice.BigBallChunkyTime posted:So basically he probably got away with that Georgia phone call
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Jan 18, 2024 22:38
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haveblue posted:Not until we turn all government over to a benevolent AI god, at least Trust The Computer! The Computer is your friend! Desumaytah posted:Wingnut Welfare is a hell of a thing. Admittedly my main/only source on this is the Knowledgefight guys, but it seems his shows are over 50% begging for money at this point.
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Jan 18, 2024 22:46
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Trust The Computer! The Computer is your friend! This reality actually being a convoluted game of Paranoia would be oddly comforting
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Jan 18, 2024 22:49
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Trust The Computer! The Computer is your friend! I saw an alex jones game on steam, it was some low effort side dogwhistle bullshit that made the Sex With Hitler steampunk game look professional by comparison.
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Jan 18, 2024 23:03
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mobby_6kl posted:Was she even cheating, or was he? Anyway, that's not really the problem anyway, the (alleged) problem is that she hired someone who she had a close personal relationship with so he/they could benefit from that choice. It's hard to argue that when his qualifications and position were such that it was an easy choice, and certainly within the discretion afforded to the DA. But it's still going to loving suck to watch this happen. Lot of people are gonna be covered in poo poo. Edit: the grand jury indicted without having any idea this guy existed in the DA's office. If they want him to recuse, then whatever. It has no bearing on due process mdemone fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jan 18, 2024 |
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Jan 18, 2024 23:04
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haveblue posted:Not until we turn all government over to a benevolent AI god, at least
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Jan 18, 2024 23:42
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mobby_6kl posted:She's made some public statements about how she's imperfect and flawed without explicitly addressing the issue. BigBallChunkyTime posted:So basically he probably got away with that Georgia phone call
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Jan 18, 2024 23:54
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Normally, that's the case, but there is significant well established precedent that you can't file civilly against a sitting president. His plan, such as it is, is likely to defer payment until he's president, then use that as a bar to orders to force payment etc. Yeah, 100%, Trump's whole game is running out the clock at this point. I've always sort of modeled him as the sort of guy whose natural instinct is just trying to keep the ball in the air every time it looks like it's gonna hit the ground, but it's also good strategy. Actuarially, odds are that Trump or Carroll will be dead by the time Jan 2029 rolls around (if he even gives up power then). And yeah, that would just devolve into their estates fighting in court for a while, but Trump doesn't care what happens after he's dead. And he can't even comprehend not winning the election - if he loses and can't steal it afterwards, he's screwed. pumpinglemma posted:Last I heard Alex was still spending in the high six figures per year. But I’m sure he’s going on extra double-secret probation real soon now. Yeah, a living allowance of like $50K a month is insane. Bitch is broke like ten times over, he oughta be living on ramen in a cheap-rear end apartment, not spending half-a-mil yearly. The reason he's able to push it off so long is because he's got two bankruptcy proceedings (personal, and Free Speech Systems) and he's got a rats nest of different LLCs and Trusts held by varying combinations of himself, his parents, and other Trusts/LLCs in the nest. Plus he's got a bunch of deals where he claims FSS owes other companies he or his parents own like tens of millions of dollars. Paracaidas posted:Why do you say that? If Willis and the Special Prosecutor get DQ'd, then it goes to a committee of GA Prosecutors to decide who takes over the case. This has two problems - (1) the one defendant that Willis got conflicted out of on political reasons still hasn't been assigned a new DA months later, and (2) can we trust an elected Republican prosecutor (as most in Georgia are) to vigorously pursue RICO charges against Trump to the fullest extent they can?
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Jan 19, 2024 00:18
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Paracaidas posted:There's zero indication that any content of her sermon was based on the allegations, and frankly little reason to believe it was. "Even I, someone seen as a role model or aspirational to you, am flawed and imperfect" is celebrity guest preacher 101. Not making any judgment on the wisdom of not dropping the invitation after the filing came out or not changing the messaging, but it's tenuous link at best. quote:Why does Commissioner Thorn and so many others question my decision in a special counsel? Lord, your flawed, hardheaded and imperfect child. mdemone posted:It's hard to argue that when his qualifications and position were such that it was an easy choice, and certainly within the discretion afforded to the DA. IANAL but I as a corporate drone wouldn't be able to just award a contract to my wife/girlfriend for example without independent review, even if her company had the best offer. quote:Officers and employees shall avoid even the appearance of a conflict of interest. An appearance of a conflict of interest exists when a reasonable person would conclude from the surrounding circumstances that the ability of the officer or employee to protect the public interest or impartially perform a public duty is compromised by financial or personal interests in the matter or transaction. The appearance of a conflict of interest can exist even in the absence of an actual conflict of interest, which exists whenever the officer or employee knows or should know that he or she has an interest that may be affected by his or her official acts or actions. As I said, I haven't heard anyone suggest that this would get the case dismissed or even require a new trial, but it might force both her and the prosecutor off the case and the replacement could be a chud and/or not experienced with RICO cases. E: just spotted  https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24367259-fani-willis-emergency-motion-to-quash mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Jan 19, 2024 |
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Jan 19, 2024 00:19
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Paracaidas posted:There's zero indication that any content of her sermon was based on the allegations, and frankly little reason to believe it was. "Even I, someone seen as a role model or aspirational to you, am flawed and imperfect" is celebrity guest preacher 101. Not making any judgment on the wisdom of not dropping the invitation after the filing came out or not changing the messaging, but it's tenuous link at best. You can just read her sermon here: https://www.atlantanewsfirst.com/2024/01/15/read-fulton-county-da-fani-willis-improper-relationship-charges/, where she does in fact talk about the allegations. To my understanding this case was always on shakier legal grounds compared to Jack Smith's DC case. The big loss here is the perception of bias, but really who is left that hasn't already picked a side in Trump v America?
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Jan 19, 2024 00:28
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